The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Mike R:
Richard Nixon:

I enjoy how someone who didn't attend college is such an expert on what a lack of challenge there is at a college.

I know I always sit on the sidelines of a track meet and say how easy it is to hop over those hurdles.

Judging by your recent posts, I would have to say you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. You seem to come off as condescending and superior to everyone on these forums.

Nothing wrong with good self esteem, but when you have grandiose opinions of yourself, it may be time to seek advice.

Thank you for the advice Mike.

Mike R · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:

Thank you for the advice Mike.

Glad I could help.

emptyset · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Mike R:
Judging by your recent posts, I would have to say you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. You seem to come off as condescending and superior to everyone on these forums.

Nothing wrong with good self esteem, but when you have grandiose opinions of yourself, it may be time to seek advice.

the unfortunate consequences of adopting the libertarian lifestyle, according to ayn rand.

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Mike R:
Judging by your recent posts, I would have to say you have a pretty high opinion of yourself. You seem to come off as condescending and superior to everyone on these forums.

Nothing wrong with good self esteem, but when you have grandiose opinions of yourself, it may be time to seek advice.

the unfortunate consequences of adopting the libertarian lifestyle, according to ayn rand.

That's an interesting statement to make. Thank you for adding to the discussion!

Stan Rogers · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:

I enjoy how someone who didn't attend college is such an expert on what a lack of challenge there is at a college.

I know I always sit on the sidelines of a track meet and say how easy it is to hop over those hurdles.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I had taught. Been there, seen that, and I know that even the brightest students can challenge themselves, if they are so inclined. That inclination is not optional, though, for those who do not attend college (or who did attend college but never studied CS, which describes most programmers of a generation ago) but still wish to achieve any degree of proficiency. We're not talking about script kiddies here.

emptyset · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
That's an interesting statement to make. Thank you for adding to the discussion!

your posts are also highly insightful and don't mock people in any way!

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

Stan Rogers:
Richard Nixon:

I enjoy how someone who didn't attend college is such an expert on what a lack of challenge there is at a college.

I know I always sit on the sidelines of a track meet and say how easy it is to hop over those hurdles.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I had taught. Been there, seen that, and I know that even the brightest students can challenge themselves, if they are so inclined. That inclination is not optional, though, for those who do not attend college (or who did attend college but never studied CS, which describes most programmers of a generation ago) but still wish to achieve any degree of proficiency. We're not talking about script kiddies here.

You said "They don't change the books or the rules to challenge people with exceptionally high aptitude and interest, nor do the fundamental principles change a whole lot along the way."

I disagree with this. I have found that at a good school, doors will be opened by good performance in certain classes. Options to do an independent study with a professor, internships, etc. At a good college [in my opinion], the opposite of what you say is true. And of course people have to be inclined to be challenged at college. That goes without saying since there's no requirement to be there.

Furthermore, I have taught college classes as well. I always went out of my way to talk to students who were doing well in the course and suggest areas of interest related to the course work that they might look into - telling them to stop by my office anytime to talk about it.

Are the rules changed? Somewhat - options are given to the best and the brightest that are not available to all. So, again, I think you're wrong.

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-21 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Richard Nixon:
That's an interesting statement to make. Thank you for adding to the discussion!

your posts are also highly insightful and don't mock people in any way!

Why thank you! I always try to be thoughtful and respectful. My intention is always to interact with people on Internet forums as if those people were in my very home. Have a nice day emptyset!

Stan Rogers · 2005-09-23 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
Stan Rogers:
Richard Nixon:

I enjoy how someone who didn't attend college is such an expert on what a lack of challenge there is at a college.

I know I always sit on the sidelines of a track meet and say how easy it is to hop over those hurdles.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I had taught. Been there, seen that, and I know that even the brightest students can challenge themselves, if they are so inclined. That inclination is not optional, though, for those who do not attend college (or who did attend college but never studied CS, which describes most programmers of a generation ago) but still wish to achieve any degree of proficiency. We're not talking about script kiddies here.

You said "They don't change the books or the rules to challenge people with exceptionally high aptitude and interest, nor do the fundamental principles change a whole lot along the way."

I disagree with this. I have found that at a good school, doors will be opened by good performance in certain classes. Options to do an independent study with a professor, internships, etc. At a good college [in my opinion], the opposite of what you say is true. And of course people have to be inclined to be challenged at college. That goes without saying since there's no requirement to be there.

Furthermore, I have taught college classes as well. I always went out of my way to talk to students who were doing well in the course and suggest areas of interest related to the course work that they might look into - telling them to stop by my office anytime to talk about it.

Are the rules changed? Somewhat - options are given to the best and the brightest that are not available to all. So, again, I think you're wrong.

Again, those extras are entirely optional, and the statement repeats something I have already said at least twice. They are not a requirement for the sheepskin. If the individual is out to learn and has a voracious appetite, he or she may do so without benefit of an institution (although the proximity of resources at an institution may make the quest an easier one). The rules do not change -- the pass/fail grade is not a sliding value based on the individual student's effort versus his or her ability.

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-23 Reply Admin

Stan Rogers:
Richard Nixon:
Stan Rogers:
Richard Nixon:

I enjoy how someone who didn't attend college is such an expert on what a lack of challenge there is at a college.

I know I always sit on the sidelines of a track meet and say how easy it is to hop over those hurdles.

You must have missed the part where I mentioned that I had taught. Been there, seen that, and I know that even the brightest students can challenge themselves, if they are so inclined. That inclination is not optional, though, for those who do not attend college (or who did attend college but never studied CS, which describes most programmers of a generation ago) but still wish to achieve any degree of proficiency. We're not talking about script kiddies here.

You said "They don't change the books or the rules to challenge people with exceptionally high aptitude and interest, nor do the fundamental principles change a whole lot along the way."

I disagree with this. I have found that at a good school, doors will be opened by good performance in certain classes. Options to do an independent study with a professor, internships, etc. At a good college [in my opinion], the opposite of what you say is true. And of course people have to be inclined to be challenged at college. That goes without saying since there's no requirement to be there.

Furthermore, I have taught college classes as well. I always went out of my way to talk to students who were doing well in the course and suggest areas of interest related to the course work that they might look into - telling them to stop by my office anytime to talk about it.

Are the rules changed? Somewhat - options are given to the best and the brightest that are not available to all. So, again, I think you're wrong.

Again, those extras are entirely optional, and the statement repeats something I have already said at least twice. They are not a requirement for the sheepskin. If the individual is out to learn and has a voracious appetite, he or she may do so without benefit of an institution (although the proximity of resources at an institution may make the quest an easier one). The rules do not change -- the pass/fail grade is not a sliding value based on the individual student's effort versus his or her ability.

I have demonstrated how the principles change. You said they don't change. End of discussion.

Stan Rogers · 2005-09-26 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
Stan Rogers:

Again, those extras are entirely optional, and the statement repeats something I have already said at least twice. They are not a requirement for the sheepskin. If the individual is out to learn and has a voracious appetite, he or she may do so without benefit of an institution (although the proximity of resources at an institution may make the quest an easier one). The rules do not change -- the pass/fail grade is not a sliding value based on the individual student's effort versus his or her ability.

I have demonstrated how the principles change. You said they don't change. End of discussion.

Please stay away from mathematical or formal logical proofs -- you have demonstrated nothing germaine to your position. A person may choose to pursue learning beyond the minimum degree necessary, or not, formal educational framework and institution notwithstanding. Except in cases where a personal evaluation constitutes a significant part of a student's marks (which is the case, for instance, in military training and medical internship), success in technical studies is measured objectively and independently of the student's effort and desire to learn. A student can choose to do precisely enough to pass and no more. Access to resources that could provide both deeper and broader knowledge (and access to such resources is not limited to university students) does not necessitate their use.

Richard Nixon · 2005-09-26 Reply Admin

Stan Rogers:
Richard Nixon:
Stan Rogers:

Again, those extras are entirely optional, and the statement repeats something I have already said at least twice. They are not a requirement for the sheepskin. If the individual is out to learn and has a voracious appetite, he or she may do so without benefit of an institution (although the proximity of resources at an institution may make the quest an easier one). The rules do not change -- the pass/fail grade is not a sliding value based on the individual student's effort versus his or her ability.

I have demonstrated how the principles change. You said they don't change. End of discussion.

Please stay away from mathematical or formal logical proofs -- you have demonstrated nothing germaine to your position. A person may choose to pursue learning beyond the minimum degree necessary, or not, formal educational framework and institution notwithstanding. Except in cases where a personal evaluation constitutes a significant part of a student's marks (which is the case, for instance, in military training and medical internship), success in technical studies is measured objectively and independently of the student's effort and desire to learn. A student can choose to do precisely enough to pass and no more. Access to resources that could provide both deeper and broader knowledge (and access to such resources is not limited to university students) does not necessitate their use.

Again - you haven't been to a good school obviously so you don't know what you're talking about. Take care. I won't be responding.

emptyset · 2005-09-26 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
Again - you haven't been to a good school obviously so you don't know what you're talking about. Take care. I won't be responding.

everybody loves an elitist. out in space, you have to keep your wits about you. that kind of talk can get you killed if you don't follow the right nomenclature.

RESPECT THE KUDZU AND YOU WILL BE SET FREE.

Stan Rogers · 2005-10-01 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:

Again - you haven't been to a good school obviously so you don't know what you're talking about. Take care. I won't be responding.

Nor have you, apparently. All of the good schools make sure students have a foundation in the trivium before allowing them to proceed to any degree.

2005-10-02 Reply Admin

emptyset:
RESPECT THE KUDZU AND YOU WILL BE SET FREE.

Don't dew drugz man! There bad 4 U.

emptyset · 2005-10-03 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
emptyset:
RESPECT THE KUDZU AND YOU WILL BE SET FREE.

Don't dew drugz man! There bad 4 U.

go back to your "X-treme" wake-boarding action!

2005-10-04 Reply Admin

OK, Im british.. to me a pound sign is £ (wonder if that makes it to the board).. its a sign of my currency

# is a hash, or in music a sharp.

I dont get where the # = pound comes from

but, irrelevant of what you might call it ! is exclaimation or pling depending .. but, if you programmed in c! and it was termd c-doit, you wouldnt call it c-pling.. you'd look like moron, if you werent claiming you knew it, people would excuse you, but if you "know it" then.. well they'd expect you to know how its called.

Pronouncation differences delphi = dell - fi or dell-fee is kinda excuseable.

Stan Rogers · 2005-10-04 Reply Admin

The use of # for pound is a variation on a typographer's glyph for "lb." (as in "pound avoirdupois", not "pound Sterling"). The glyph looked like "lb" struck through, and its handwritten form was usually "#". (The typewriter-key reason usually given is a red herring.) The glyph never really caught on outside of the US -- most of us Commonwealthers still use "lb." when refering to the old Imperial weights. Had it caught on, though, it would be applied to mutton, not money, as in "2# mutton -- £5.00".

Maurits · 2005-10-04 Reply Admin

Stan Rogers:
The use of # for pound is a variation on a typographer's glyph for "lb." (as in "pound avoirdupois", not "pound Sterling"). The glyph looked like "lb" struck through, and its handwritten form was usually "#". (The typewriter-key reason usually given is a red herring.) The glyph never really caught on outside of the US -- most of us Commonwealthers still use "lb." when refering to the old Imperial weights. Had it caught on, though, it would be applied to mutton, not money, as in "2# mutton -- £5.00".

On the other hand, £1-worth of pennies (240 pennies) really did weigh 1 lb.

2005-10-04 Reply Admin

Amen, brother! I can just see the marketing people at Microsoft pulling their hair out over that decision. Oh, wait. I think marketing came up with ".NET", so maybe they weren't too opposed to "C#" afterall.

2005-10-04 Reply Admin

Don't take this the wrong way, but EmptySet is exactly the type of person I would hate to have on my team.

2005-10-04 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Don't take this the wrong way, but EmptySet is exactly the type of person I would hate to have on my team.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, I do know. And I agree. Wholeheartedly.

He's the type of guy who would pimp-slap his fellow programmer.

2005-10-04 Reply Admin

Okay, what is it with programming and rap music?

This guy I work with is a total rapper. Er...I should say wannabe rapper. He came in the other day and yelled "A-big-bay-bay! A-woof-woof!" Whatever that means. I think I heard it on a sitcom once, but since I don't watch much tv I have no idea which one. It sounded really goofy and forced. As if he himself was uncomfortable with those expressions.

How dumb is that.

emptyset · 2005-10-05 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Anonymous:
Don't take this the wrong way, but EmptySet is exactly the type of person I would hate to have on my team.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, I do know. And I agree. Wholeheartedly.

He's the type of guy who would pimp-slap his fellow programmer.

have you seen my code? read my documentation? what projects have we worked on? what meetings of mine have you been to?

i don't judge people on public internet forums. generally, i assume everybody is just talking out of their ass for fun and profit.

i've had my share of faults on team projects. people found it really annoying when i would insist on making some kind of document that describes what they want me to do. i don't care if it's on a napkin or in a clear, plastic binder. i don't do it to pawn off work on the manager. i do it to improve the quality of the project. when you tell someone to write down what they mean, it's a pain in the ass but they always thank me for it later. i always hear:

"man, we really haven't thought this through"
"i talked to mikhail and endo-plast, and they've added new requirements"

and my personal favorite:

"yeah, about that. we decided it really wasn't worth it."

everytime you minimize the changes to the requirements or eliminate them all together, you save your company money. money, time that would have otherwise been wasted on pipe dreams.

the biggest problem in a software team is that people hate change and they also hate anything they percieve as criticism. i've found that if you mention a good idea to enough people, eventually, as it settles, it enters the vernacular and suddenly, everybody wonders why they're not using/doing/implementing the widget. patience is a must for when everybody grumbles but then eventually chooses to see things how they are.

2005-10-07 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Okay, what is it with programming and rap music?

This guy I work with is a total rapper. Er...I should say wannabe rapper. He came in the other day and yelled "A-big-bay-bay! A-woof-woof!" Whatever that means. I think I heard it on a sitcom once, but since I don't watch much tv I have no idea which one. It sounded really goofy and forced. As if he himself was uncomfortable with those expressions.

How dumb is that.

Not as uncommon as you would think. Most of the guys in my office are totally into the rap scene. The late 80s rap scene.

"Yo-Yo Whassup baby! You chillin'? I'm chillin'. Maybe we can all just chillllll."

I have to listen to this type of garbage 8 hours a day.

Richard Nixon · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Anonymous:
Anonymous:
Don't take this the wrong way, but EmptySet is exactly the type of person I would hate to have on my team.

I don't know what you're talking about.

Actually, I do know. And I agree. Wholeheartedly.

He's the type of guy who would pimp-slap his fellow programmer.

have you seen my code? read my documentation? what projects have we worked on? what meetings of mine have you been to?

i don't judge people on public internet forums. generally, i assume everybody is just talking out of their ass for fun and profit.

i've had my share of faults on team projects. people found it really annoying when i would insist on making some kind of document that describes what they want me to do. i don't care if it's on a napkin or in a clear, plastic binder. i don't do it to pawn off work on the manager. i do it to improve the quality of the project. when you tell someone to write down what they mean, it's a pain in the ass but they always thank me for it later. i always hear:

"man, we really haven't thought this through"
"i talked to mikhail and endo-plast, and they've added new requirements"

and my personal favorite:

"yeah, about that. we decided it really wasn't worth it."

everytime you minimize the changes to the requirements or eliminate them all together, you save your company money. money, time that would have otherwise been wasted on pipe dreams.

the biggest problem in a software team is that people hate change and they also hate anything they percieve as criticism. i've found that if you mention a good idea to enough people, eventually, as it settles, it enters the vernacular and suddenly, everybody wonders why they're not using/doing/implementing the widget. patience is a must for when everybody grumbles but then eventually chooses to see things how they are.

You're perfect and everyone else won't accept criticism, right emptyset?

emptyset · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
You're perfect and everyone else won't accept criticism, right emptyset?

yay! everbody's favorite libertarian has returned!

wtijsma · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

Anonymous:

Not as uncommon as you would think. Most of the guys in my office are totally into the rap scene. The late 80s rap scene.

"Yo-Yo Whassup baby! You chillin'? I'm chillin'. Maybe we can all just chillllll."

I have to listen to this type of garbage 8 hours a day.

[shivers] ooww, I hate both typical 80s AND rap music... yo I feel you dawg...

Richard Nixon · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Richard Nixon:
You're perfect and everyone else won't accept criticism, right emptyset?

yay! everbody's favorite libertarian has returned!

1. I'm not a libertarian.
2. You missed a 'y' in "everybody".

emptyset · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
emptyset:

Richard Nixon:
You're perfect and everyone else won't accept criticism, right emptyset?

yay! everbody's favorite libertarian has returned!

1. I'm not a libertarian.
2. You missed a 'y' in "everybody".

if ou're not a libertarian, wh are ou such an elitist fuck? i don't understand. please explain.

m ke is space.

Richard Nixon · 2005-10-07 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Richard Nixon:
emptyset:

Richard Nixon:
You're perfect and everyone else won't accept criticism, right emptyset?

yay! everbody's favorite libertarian has returned!

1. I'm not a libertarian.
2. You missed a 'y' in "everybody".

if ou're not a libertarian, wh are ou such an elitist fuck? i don't understand. please explain.

m ke is space.

Gee, I don't know - maybe it's because I'm better than everyone else?

2005-10-08 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Okay, what is it with programming and rap music?

This guy I work with is a total rapper. Er...I should say wannabe rapper. He came in the other day and yelled "A-big-bay-bay! A-woof-woof!" Whatever that means. I think I heard it on a sitcom once, but since I don't watch much tv I have no idea which one.

I don't know the name of the program, but I've seen it. I remember watching it and felt like I had lost brain cells during the process. I don't think the show lasted half a season. There were no famous actors or actresses on it and to this day I think those who appeared on it are all still anonymous. The "big-baby!" line was supposed to be one of the character's main catch phrases...which apparently never caught on. (Big surprise.) It was very goofy and poorly written. The main character would run up to another character and make all sorts of wild hand gestures (menacingly yet stupidly) and scream "A-big-baybay! Woof! Woof!" And then he would kind of look towards the camera as if waiting for applause or something, like Mr.Furley used to do on Three's Company. I am so glad they cancelled that program. I think it was corrupting the youth.

Mike R · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:
emptyset:
if ou're not a libertarian, wh are ou such an elitist fuck? i don't understand. please explain.

m ke is space.

Gee, I don't know - maybe it's because I'm better than everyone else?

That sums everything up so very nicely.

2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Mike R:
That sums everything up so very nicely.

"A big-baybay!"

LOL!

Mike R · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mike R:
That sums everything up so very nicely.

"A big-baybay!"

LOL!

[groan]

2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Mike R:
[groan]

Hey, look on the bright side...at least I'm not EmptySet.

Mike R · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mike R:
[groan]

Hey, look on the bright side...at least I'm not EmptySet.

Whats wrong with emptyset?

emptyset · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mike R:
[groan]

Hey, look on the bright side...at least I'm not EmptySet.

what's the problem?

2005-10-10 Reply Admin

emptyset:
what's the problem?

I'm just messin' with you man. You take life too seriously.

emptyset · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
emptyset:
what's the problem?

I'm just messin' with you man. You take life too seriously.

no, i just don't randomly sign on to a public forum to insult people i've never met.

2005-10-10 Reply Admin

emptyset:
no, i just don't randomly sign on to a public forum to insult people i've never met.

Did you ever think that maybe I was just jealous of your bad-assy-ness?

Savior · 2005-10-10 Reply Admin

No, he has inferiority complex.

Richard Nixon · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

emptyset:
Anonymous:
emptyset:
what's the problem?

I'm just messin' with you man. You take life too seriously.

no, i just don't randomly sign on to a public forum to insult people i've never met.

Actually, that's exactly what you do.

EX: The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

Mike R · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Richard Nixon:

Actually, that's exactly what you do.

EX: The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

I keep thinking that its some sort of in-joke. Anyway, I don't see that he randomly insults people (he makes some pretty random comments, the libertarian comments are pretty consistent, so can this really be considered random?). More or less, he has targeted one person for some reason, and its valid in his mind. fwiw you haven't exactly been a start citizen on this board, but then again, neither have I.

Mike R · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

start=star. edit would be nice.

Richard Nixon · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Mike R:
Richard Nixon:

Actually, that's exactly what you do.

EX: The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

I keep thinking that its some sort of in-joke. Anyway, I don't see that he randomly insults people (he makes some pretty random comments, the libertarian comments are pretty consistent, so can this really be considered random?). More or less, he has targeted one person for some reason, and its valid in his mind. fwiw you haven't exactly been a star citizen on this board, but then again, neither have I.

There you go! I edited it for you.

2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Mike R:
The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

According to some online dictionary, a libertarian is "One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state."

That sounds exactly like emptyset. How could there have been a debate?

Mike R · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mike R:
The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

According to some online dictionary, a libertarian is "One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state."

That sounds exactly like emptyset. How could there have been a debate?

Is this the stupid forum software or was this just simply a misattribution? Richard Nixon wrote that.

2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Mike R:
Is this the stupid forum software or was this just simply a misattribution? Richard Nixon wrote that.

Stupid software...

emptyset · 2005-10-11 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mike R:
The fabled emptyset vs. libertarian debate, of which tales are told long after the debate ended. It was quite an epic battle as tales are still being told of it.

According to some online dictionary, a libertarian is "One who advocates maximizing individual rights and minimizing the role of the state."

That sounds exactly like emptyset. How could there have been a debate?

hell, i have no problem with that. of course, the same definition can also be applied to an anarchist.

unlike anarchists, libertarians rely on the free-market to solve the world's problems. the anarchists (and nihilists?) simply don't care.

the debate really wasn't much of a debate - it was hilarious. i am captivated by the common trait of american libertarians to collect silver and other precious metals. when i asked this guy why he did that, he said it was because silver had intrinsic value. since that pretty much goes against the free-market determining its value, hilarity ensued.

consequently, today i had a hamburger for lunch. it was delicious. they put bacon on it.

5 years C-pound experience

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