• (cs)

    Isn't it more a software solution that was seen as a marketing problem?

  • (cs)

    I've worked at a company where the same thing happened. For the life of me, I could not understand why they needed an Oracle DB to persist stuff that was never queried. They could have easily used a simple text file.

    I forgot about it for a while, moved on to another company, but then something strange happened. When talking to people about my new job, they would often ask what DB vendor we were using. I replied with, "just SQL Server." People basically laughed in my face and said they couldn't take any Wall Street based company seriously if they weren't using Oracle.

    Then it hit me. The managers at my old company KNEW that the Oracle DB wasn't necessary. They also knew that, as a Wall Street software company, their clients were expecting an Oracle backend. It was a brilliant marketing move.

    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.

  • D2oris (unregistered)
  • (cs) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.

    But still plays to Oracle's relative deployment complexity.

  • Yep (unregistered) in reply to D2oris
    D2oris:
    Perfect.
  • (cs)

    The VP of Engineering's last name was Ellison, wasn't it?

  • hehe (unregistered)

    oracle is the devil

  • (cs) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.

    You're right, but "powered by a flat file" just doesn't sound as nice.

    But nowadays even saying "XML" has the same effect, even when it's superfluous.

    Eclipse: now with 200% more XML!
  • Dude (unregistered) in reply to hehe

    MySQL is solution

  • JimmyVile (unregistered) in reply to D2oris
    D2oris:
    Seconded.
  • (cs) in reply to Dude
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution

    yes but sometimes you want more power then you go for flat file

  • (cs) in reply to Dude
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution
    Not if you want a large, faceless corporation to take you seriously. Why? Because users who have heard of Oracle most likely recognise the name as belonging to an industry giant, a huge multinational corporation with a history dating back to the dawn of computing itself (whether this is true or not, this is what users, and particularly CEOs, associate with Oracle). Having "Oracle" somewhere on the box links your product to that history. If users have even heard of MySQL it's probably as a new upstart, with no history and mainly as the domain of hackers. No CEO worth their salt is going to want anything to do with it.

    Yes, it's bollocks. Unfortunately, it's also true.

  • (cs) in reply to Stilgar
    Stilgar:
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution

    yes but sometimes you want more power then you go for flat file

    You forget that you can just store the XML IN the MySQL DB. Infinite scalability!

  • Morasique (unregistered)

    I have a database with a single table, with a single row that holds the contents of the flat file. That's how real programmers do it

  • (cs) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    Stilgar:
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution

    yes but sometimes you want more power then you go for flat file

    You forget that you can just store the XML IN the MySQL DB. Infinite scalability!

    But neither a flat file or MySQL lets you exercise that most powerful of Oracle SQL commands:

    SELECT X FROM DUAL

  • (cs) in reply to Markp
    Markp:
    Outlaw Programmer:
    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.
    But nowadays even saying "XML" has the same effect, even when it's superfluous.
    Isn't it amazing how a specialised technique / format / methodology is suddenly heralded as the answer to all problem, even when it is irredeemably unsuited to addressing 95% of those problems. In the general business world Prince 2 has a similar effect. In fact, if you put together a sales pitch with the right combination of Oracle, XML and Prince 2, I suspect you could create a hypnotic effect guaranteed to win you any contract...
  • Tom Woolf (unregistered)

    What a perfect smarmy picture to go along with the title.

  • biziclop (unregistered) in reply to JimM
    JimM:
    Markp:
    Outlaw Programmer:
    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.
    But nowadays even saying "XML" has the same effect, even when it's superfluous.
    Isn't it amazing how a specialised technique / format / methodology is suddenly heralded as the answer to all problem, even when it is irredeemably unsuited to addressing 95% of those problems. In the general business world Prince 2 has a similar effect. In fact, if you put together a sales pitch with the right combination of Oracle, XML and Prince 2, I suspect you could create a hypnotic effect guaranteed to win you any contract...

    The paracetamol of software industry.

  • Ben4jammin (unregistered) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    I've worked at a company where the same thing happened. For the life of me, I could not understand why they needed an Oracle DB to persist stuff that was never queried. They could have easily used a simple text file.

    I forgot about it for a while, moved on to another company, but then something strange happened. When talking to people about my new job, they would often ask what DB vendor we were using. I replied with, "just SQL Server." People basically laughed in my face and said they couldn't take any Wall Street based company seriously if they weren't using Oracle.

    Then it hit me. The managers at my old company KNEW that the Oracle DB wasn't necessary. They also knew that, as a Wall Street software company, their clients were expecting an Oracle backend. It was a brilliant marketing move.

    The real WTF is why people have this preconceived notion that Oracle is "The Best", even when you have a simple app that doesn't play to Oracle's strengths.

    I just love situations where people THINK you are an idiot for reasons that make you KNOW they are idiots.

    It would be like if I chastised my mechanic over the type of oil he put in my truck or something. There is a reason why he works on trucks and I work on servers.

  • Waffle (unregistered)

    This comment better be stored in an Oracle 11i database.

  • Leon (unregistered) in reply to Stilgar
    Stilgar:
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution

    yes but sometimes you want more power then you go for flat file

    Worst haiku ever.

  • synthoil dude (unregistered) in reply to Ben4jammin
    Ben4jammin:
    It would be like if I chastised my mechanic over the type of oil he put in my truck or something.
    Let me talk to you about AMSOIL.
  • SoonerMatt (unregistered)

    Now you could use the free oracle instance that has a 4gb limit.

  • (cs)
    OP:
    the database was completely superfluous since records were processed as they came in

    Ancillary: And if that server goes down while real time records are streaming by and you miss a record or two, or thousands?

  • (cs)

    Is the fact that this company's marketing department has power and influence at least equal to the people who actually create the product that is the company's raison d'etre still unusual enough to count as a proper WTF?

  • metrician (unregistered)

    Just for the record, CDR is an abbreviation for Call Detail Record not Call Data Record.

  • (cs) in reply to Morasique
    Morasique:
    I have a database with a single table, with a single row that holds the contents of the flat file. That's how real programmers do it
    I predict a "wooden table" comment hard on the heels of this.
  • Dirk (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent

    I guess, that's what we can call a self fulfilling prophecy.

  • (cs) in reply to metrician
    metrician:
    Just for the record, CDR is an abbreviation for Call Detail Record not Call Data Record.

    I was at a wireless billing company for about thirteen years. "Call Detail Record" is the more common usage (and the one that I prefer). But, I have seen "Call Data Record" used on more than one occasion.

  • Dirk (unregistered)

    Can the reply button be removed for me, please? I tend to miss the quote button...

  • balancer100 (unregistered) in reply to Outlaw Programmer

    I've worked at a company where the same thing happened

    You're not the only one

  • Not Dirk (unregistered) in reply to Dirk
    Dirk:
    Can the reply button be removed for me, please? I tend to miss the quote button...

    yeah it's so hard not noticing the absence of text in the Comment box upon a completion of loading.

  • dkallen99 (unregistered) in reply to Dirk

    Yeah, we'll be sure to install Oracle 8 on the server, create a table of UsersWithNoReplyCapability, and store your name as the only record of the only table in the database. Sometime later, we'll get around to cron'ing a nightly job to dump the table into an xml flat file, which can be queried each time the form loads on your machine. Eventually, we'll add the code to actually disable your reply button based on the XML content.

  • (cs) in reply to Jake Grey
    Is the fact that this company's marketing department has power and influence at least equal to the people who actually create the product that is the company's raison d'etre still unusual enough to count as a proper WTF?

    No, because, at least in my experience, this is the rule, not an exception. A true WTF ought to be out-of-the-ordinary.

  • AdT (unregistered)

    I'm returning my iPod touch. Get it - it's running SQLite, and not even a real Oracle server. Neither, and unlike some of the marketing suggests, does it have an integrated dish washer.

    Apple has sunken to new lows and hopefully AAPL will follow suit.

  • (cs)

    I'm sure that Oracle can do this too, but when SQL 2005 was being developed, Microsoft used a Barnes and Noble (bookstores) database for testing. It held 1.3 billion sales records (for 2 years), and 8.4 billion inventory records. It worked fine!

    A SQL license for unlimited users on a server can cost a lot, but a SQL license for a few simultaneous users on a single server (maybe 5 or 10 users, I forget), which is plenty for some small businesses, costs about $700.

    The SQL 2005 Express engine (without a user interface) is free (just like MySQL). There are third-party user interfaces for it.

  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to SoonerMatt
    SoonerMatt:
    Now you could use the free oracle instance that has a 4gb limit.

    Except I don't think it's allowed for commercial use in a production environment. Just for testing.

  • Jamie (unregistered) in reply to Dirk
    Dirk:
    Can the reply button be removed for me, please? I tend to miss the quote button...
    1. Write greasemonkey script to delete div with "Reply" as it's text
    2. ???
    3. Profit!
  • Schnapple (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59
    DWalker59:
    The SQL 2005 Express engine (without a user interface) is free (just like MySQL). There are third-party user interfaces for it.

    Actually, SQL 2005 Express comes with a UI as well - the same one, basically, as the real product. MSDE (the "Express" analogue for SQL 2000) didn't come with one but I've actually used SQL 2005 Express for clients before. It has some technical limitations (most notably a max 2GB database size) and some usage restrictions, but it can be used for commercial purposes.

  • (cs)

    Now come on. You know you don't take a band seriously if the amplifiers aren't Marshalls. Why should a corporation be any different?

  • magi (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59
    DWalker59:
    The SQL 2005 Express engine (without a user interface) is free (just like MySQL).
    I don't think so.
  • Mark (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59
    DWalker59:
    The SQL 2005 Express engine (without a user interface) is free (just like MySQL). There are third-party user interfaces for it.

    Except that the Express license is more restrictive I'd imagine. If you're going to use a faceless DB solution and you don't need any Visual Studio integration, go with MySQL.

  • (cs) in reply to Mark

    The License Agreement for Oracle Express Edition (the one with the 4gb limit) says it is allowed for production use although there is a clause about using it only for internal data processing.

    You can download the other editions of Oracle (such as Enterprise Edition) for free, but for them you are limited to just dev, prototype, or self-education purposes only.

    IANAOE I am not an Oracle employee, check with your Oracle licensing specialist

  • Alan (unregistered) in reply to Schnapple
    Schnapple:
    Actually, SQL 2005 Express comes with a UI as well - the same one, basically, as the real product. MSDE (the "Express" analogue for SQL 2000) didn't come with one but I've actually used SQL 2005 Express for clients before. It has some technical limitations (most notably a max 2GB database size) and some usage restrictions, but it can be used for commercial purposes.

    Yeah, my company use it for small site servers, all log files are pulled onto the central server every hour ensuring we never hit the 2 gig limit.

  • (cs) in reply to metrician
    metrician:
    Just for the record, CDR is an abbreviation for Call Detail Record not Call Data Record.

    That's funny, I thought it meant "Contents of Decrement Register".

  • JonC (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    SoonerMatt:
    Now you could use the free oracle instance that has a 4gb limit.

    Except I don't think it's allowed for commercial use in a production environment. Just for testing.

    You can get free versions of all the Oracle databases that are just to be used for development/testing, but you can use Oracle XE (the entirely free one) as a production db server without consequence.

  • (cs) in reply to Ben4jammin
    Ben4jammin:
    It would be like if I chastised my mechanic over the type of oil he put in my truck or something. There is a reason why he works on trucks and I work on servers.

    Mechanics at Tustin Toyota put cheap generic green antifreeze into my Toyota, instead of Toyota pink red antifreeze. I wonder how many engines are ruined by that.

  • (cs) in reply to Toger
    Toger:
    IANAOE
    Hmmm, that's a new one on me. I'm going with I Am Not An Orange Elephant.
  • ? (unregistered) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    Stilgar:
    Dude:
    MySQL is solution

    yes but sometimes you want more power then you go for flat file

    You forget that you can just store the XML IN the MySQL DB. Infinite scalability!

    I prefer to keep all of my data as comma-separated values inside an xml tag stored in a database.

  • (cs)
    The CDRs were stored alongside all billing records, and were frequently accessed by mission-critical internal applications, and they weren't prepared to expose all of that to a third party. So instead, Jason's company would have to construct CDRs on their own from the signaling message flow.
    Wait, WTF!? They won't give you the CDRs, but they'll give you the raw signaling messages!? "We won't give you the output dumped by our switch, as it's accessed by other applications, but we're OK putting you on the critical signaling path and letting you see everything that's going on in our network."

    TBH, I'd have thought a design that involves generating CDRs from the signaling flows is a bit of a WTF in itself.

Leave a comment on “A Software Problem, A Marketing Solution”

Log In or post as a guest

Replying to comment #:

Log Out

« Return to Article