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Admin
Tell them to stop being losers and get rid of those multi-part names...
DEFECT STATUS: Closed
Admin
Admin
Excellent work!
Admin
Admin
Wow, what a troll. A++, would read again
Admin
[quote user="somechick"][quote=ShatteredArm]2) You don't think part of the reason there are so few women in IT has something to do with the fact that 90% of CS students are men? I had entire classes in college where there were no more than two or three girls, out of about fifty total students.[/quote]
As a female in IT, I think part of the reason there aren't more women in IT is the boys' club attitude. There's a certain level of arrogance in this field that is intimidating (or at the very least a turn-off) to most women. As the oldest (of 5) and the only girl in my generation, it doesn't bother me, and I can generally see through the big attitude to the actual technical aptitude of someone.
I currently deal with a tech support guy who thinks he's god's gift to bits, and treats everyone else like a 3-year-old. (It's not just me. I was paranoid there for a while, until he was on the phone with a manager in my organization and told him "Uh, no. Wrong Answer." in the way you would correct someone adding 2 and 2 to get 7.) But the product is ... well, let's just say that the backend wouldn't have passed an exercise in a DBA for beginners class, and the web front-end wouldn't pass for looks in any evaluation of HTML today. To the point where I've considered how to anonymize it for a WTF. This guy knows his product, but doesn't know how broken it is, and doesn't understand that say, we'd want to be able to report on the tickets that we put into the system.
One of the other reasons I don't think there are a lot of women is because they just aren't as interested in taking things apart and learning how they work as men are. I don't know if it's learned behavior. All I know is I got the "make 100 things from this breadboard and wire" kits as a kid, and enjoyed them. Then again, I always liked my math and science classes, and I loved the first-order logic class that I took my 2nd time around in college, but my brain only goes up to Calc II, as I failed Calc III twice before giving up a 2nd time on formal education, and I would have needed another three math classes for a CS degree. 15 years later, I don't see the need for a degree to continue in the field I've chosen, and I have test anxiety that makes it difficult to get certifications -- but I'm employed, and I enjoy what I do. [/quote]
When I did my maths degree a few years ago (via adult education, most participants were over 30), there were considerably more women than men on the pure maths courses (particularly number theory), but women were totally outnumbered by men on applied maths (particularly wave mechanics). And the women on the pure maths courses were far more likely to be party animals. Don't know why, just adding this piece of information to the mix.
Admin
Oh, I understand. You log in as "Somebody" because you're too embarrassed about your name to own up to it. You used to be a proud Robert Smith but there was already a Robert Smith in your company so you had to change your name to Ponsonby Smuttyballs in order to render it effectively unique so as to future-proof the user database.
Admin
Thats Ponsonby Smuttyballs445 to you, good sir!
Admin
You had me at firstSpaceLastName
Admin
Admin
Admin
You had two or three?
Our department was so hung up on the gender ratio that in order to make the numbers look better, instead of calculating the ratio of men to women, we'd calculate the ratio of men named David to women.
It was usually more than 6 to 1.
Admin
Three factor authentication! They have that now?
Admin
Admin
[quote user="somechick"][quote=ShatteredArm]2) You don't think part of the reason there are so few women in IT has something to do with the fact that 90% of CS students are men? I had entire classes in college where there were no more than two or three girls, out of about fifty total students.[/quote]
As a female in IT, I think part of the reason there aren't more women in IT is the boys' club attitude. There's a certain level of arrogance in this field that is intimidating (or at the very least a turn-off) to most women. As the oldest (of 5) and the only girl in my generation, it doesn't bother me, and I can generally see through the big attitude to the actual technical aptitude of someone.
I currently deal with a tech support guy who thinks he's god's gift to bits, and treats everyone else like a 3-year-old. (It's not just me. I was paranoid there for a while, until he was on the phone with a manager in my organization and told him "Uh, no. Wrong Answer." in the way you would correct someone adding 2 and 2 to get 7.) But the product is ... well, let's just say that the backend wouldn't have passed an exercise in a DBA for beginners class, and the web front-end wouldn't pass for looks in any evaluation of HTML today. To the point where I've considered how to anonymize it for a WTF. This guy knows his product, but doesn't know how broken it is, and doesn't understand that say, we'd want to be able to report on the tickets that we put into the system.
One of the other reasons I don't think there are a lot of women is because they just aren't as interested in taking things apart and learning how they work as men are. I don't know if it's learned behavior. All I know is I got the "make 100 things from this breadboard and wire" kits as a kid, and enjoyed them. Then again, I always liked my math and science classes, and I loved the first-order logic class that I took my 2nd time around in college, but my brain only goes up to Calc II, as I failed Calc III twice before giving up a 2nd time on formal education, and I would have needed another three math classes for a CS degree. 15 years later, I don't see the need for a degree to continue in the field I've chosen, and I have test anxiety that makes it difficult to get certifications -- but I'm employed, and I enjoy what I do. [/quote]
Are you watching me?
But seriously, Wish some people yesterday read your last paragraph!!
Admin
I wonder if that's only the posting Tab, or the reading Tab as well.... Gotta have (at least) two open so we don't lose our place in the reading whhile we think up a quick flame....
Admin
Damn - I thought you closed your tabs.....
try: Bobby-Jo Stuart and Tim Vanderhoot.
INCIDENT: RESOLVED
Admin
[quote user="Matt Westwood"][quote user="somechick"][quote=ShatteredArm]2) You don't think part of the reason there are so few women in IT has something to do with the fact that 90% of CS students are men? I had entire classes in college where there were no more than two or three girls, out of about fifty total students.[/quote]
As a female in IT, I think part of the reason there aren't more women in IT is the boys' club attitude. There's a certain level of arrogance in this field that is intimidating (or at the very least a turn-off) to most women. As the oldest (of 5) and the only girl in my generation, it doesn't bother me, and I can generally see through the big attitude to the actual technical aptitude of someone.
I currently deal with a tech support guy who thinks he's god's gift to bits, and treats everyone else like a 3-year-old. (It's not just me. I was paranoid there for a while, until he was on the phone with a manager in my organization and told him "Uh, no. Wrong Answer." in the way you would correct someone adding 2 and 2 to get 7.) But the product is ... well, let's just say that the backend wouldn't have passed an exercise in a DBA for beginners class, and the web front-end wouldn't pass for looks in any evaluation of HTML today. To the point where I've considered how to anonymize it for a WTF. This guy knows his product, but doesn't know how broken it is, and doesn't understand that say, we'd want to be able to report on the tickets that we put into the system.
One of the other reasons I don't think there are a lot of women is because they just aren't as interested in taking things apart and learning how they work as men are. I don't know if it's learned behavior. All I know is I got the "make 100 things from this breadboard and wire" kits as a kid, and enjoyed them. Then again, I always liked my math and science classes, and I loved the first-order logic class that I took my 2nd time around in college, but my brain only goes up to Calc II, as I failed Calc III twice before giving up a 2nd time on formal education, and I would have needed another three math classes for a CS degree. 15 years later, I don't see the need for a degree to continue in the field I've chosen, and I have test anxiety that makes it difficult to get certifications -- but I'm employed, and I enjoy what I do. [/quote]
When I did my maths degree a few years ago (via adult education, most participants were over 30), there were considerably more women than men on the pure maths courses (particularly number theory), but women were totally outnumbered by men on applied maths (particularly wave mechanics). And the women on the pure maths courses were far more likely to be party animals. Don't know why, just adding this piece of information to the mix.[/quote]
Tread carefully. Stating facts like that is sure to upset people, irrespective of how true...
Admin
Or something stupider than that. I don't know what that would be, and I don't want to know. Sometimes, ignorance really is bliss.
Admin
I got a math degree. My alma mater didn't offer minors or concentrations, but I "would" have been a philosophy minor, based on the sheer number of courses I took in alternative logics -- modal, spatial, temporal, constructive, paraconsistent, mereological, logics with abstraction, etc. The math department course in mathematical logic covered FOL and its models, derivability, ZF and its models, models of arithmetic, the theory of recursive functions, Turing machines, free objects, state machines and other automata, etc.
I'm constantly amazed by how utterly ignorant of their craft most CS graduates are. These people are convinced that programming is "about" telling a computer how to do things, when it is merely a constructive fragment of mathematics -- in other words, a constructive approach to organization and proof. Why has Microsoft introduced features in C# that Haskell has had for 25 years? Because these babies need to be spoon-fed mathematical ideas, because "math is hard". I am not slamming MS for copying Haskell by way of C++, but for taking far too long to do it. I will happily slam MS for implementing these ideas in a terribly unappealing fashion. (To their credit, MS hired Simon Peyton-Jones, one of the creators of Haskell, to work on Haskell and do research in typed functional programming. That is part of why we have Linq and F# now) Compare Haskell's parametric polymorphism to C#'s generics.
Haskell: data List a = Cons a (List a) | EmptyList
The non-graduates are even worse, but then I wouldn't expect someone who didn't study computation to know what an isomorphism is, let alone the consequences of the Howard-Curry isomorphism theorem.
Admin
Admin
Bulgarian developers..... Hope it's not something written by the telerik crew lol.
No offense to other Bg devs
Admin
Am I the only one who thinks firstSpaceLastName is Gagarin?
Admin
'encounter the immaturity and then choose a different path'?eh, actually, observing the immaturity is a lot of fun. that's the reason I stayed :)
Admin
Admin
(Haskell was first defined in 1990.)
Admin
Dude, you masturbate a lot.
Also, you're begging the question. Programming at its most basic, is giving a set of instructions to a machine. All that horseshit your spouting is further abstract than what the people who you look down upon do.
Grow up and blah blah blah.
Admin
Oh, and F# is a toy language that's not ready for primetime, so please stop holding it up as an example of why functional programming is winning the battle or whatever.
Admin
I added it for you.
Admin
I've never met a female engineer... How exactly does one go about engineering a female?
Captcha abigo, as opposed to a small o?
Admin
Now, take your pompousness back to whatever planet you think you are on.
Programming IS about telling computers what to do. That's what the word "programming" means. Pro- (before) and -graphein (written). Written in advance. That's all programming is: writing stuff to be done, a to-do list for your computer.
Organization and proof? Both fine, but not part of programming.
The nonsense you just spouted is one of the reason why some college grads suck big time. Because you think your job is to come up with pretty architectures and discuss their relative merits.
If you are a programmer working almost anywhere in the real world(TM), sorry, but that's not your job. Your job is to find solutions for people's problems and implement these solutions in code.
And no matter how good you are, until you understand what your job is, you are a liability to your company.
Admin
Code Monkey and proud bruva!! I agree. All this process and planning shit is for the managers. We cut code hardcore man!
Admin
As a female in IT, thank you. Thank you for making me feel like the time I waste reading the comments hasn't been quite as wasted today. For the last few weeks, for various reasons, I've been really struggling to "get into" the work I have to do. Somehow I think that'll be easier now. I'm not quite sure what it was, but thank you anyway.
Honestly, sincerely (as rare as that is around here!), Thank You.
Also,
I really, really wish that more people could see through x to the actual technical aptitude of someone, where x is gender, nationality, age, background, education, whatever. I think that'd help dry up material for this site - surely a noble goal! :)Admin
You are no fun.
Admin
There seems to be a problem in the internets. Replies from 4chan are leaking over to The Daily WTF.
Admin
Allow me to offer an example which effects a compromise between these viewpoints ...
When given a job that requires you to implement a non-tree-based hierarchy, it is useful to be familiar with directed acyclic graphs. One does not need to be able to prove whatever various ingenious theorems that have been devised on the subject, but it is useful to understand the philosophy behind their construction. If (perhaps as a result of formal academic study) one is familiar with such objects, it is more likely that a well-designed implementation of such a complex data object is the result.
That is: it's useful to know about such things, and it can be fun to explore some of the theory behind them (you may discover something new, which is often a motivator), but you will bore your colleagues senseless if you insist on making sure they understand everything about the subject when it's not relevant to the case in point.
Admin
How many DB calls does it take to change a lightbulb?
Admin
Change it into what?
Admin
Dotnet required quite a bit of magic to support all the things it does now, eg generics. A system that supports static explicit strongly typed generics that also provides full reflection capabilities is not a trivial thing to engineer, especially when you're having to support the same functionality under several languages in a compatible fashion.
That said, any actively developed language L will eventually contain a half-arsed implementation of language X, where language X provides some sort of awesome feature.
A decent CS course will teach you all sorts of unusual things that you're very unlikely to come across doing the usual run-of-the-mill self taught or learn on the job as a webmonkey/business software grinder.
Anyone who can't see how mathematics and programming are related, and can't see the point of learning about crazy moon languages in a CS degree is probably doomed to end up writing code for some pretty dull projects. Or be a plentiful source of WTFs when they can't see why their favourite language is a poor tool for a job...
Admin
Nope, sorry, that's hardware, we programmers don't do hardware.
Admin
Really? You think there are few women in IT because there are few female CS students? (I'll draw the conclusion that because there are many males in CS there are few females in CS for you.)
I guess you wanted to have a different argument, namly that there are few female CS students because there are so many male CS students. Can you see the circular logic?
Admin
Damn straight. Design? Waste of time. Git'r dun. Bish bash bosh, ship it.
A company that fosters this sort of attitude that is engaged in any sort of complex work is making a very grevious mistake.
If you're writing yet another database-molesting application, maybe hiring adequate programmers who shoudl show no imagination or understanding is a great idea. Trying to get those same people to write complex systems that need to scale significantly, or do a sophisticated job efficiently, or worst of all, not be a colossal kludge of poorly understood concepts that have been shoehorned into passing a test case but will never been maintable? Big mistake.
I'm currently engaged in porting a quite complex system which uses various fancy bits of machine learning and computer vision, wrapped up in a godawful architecture by merely adequate programmers of the sort you are approving of. Sure, they got'r dun, and met the ship date. Now we're having to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on fixing the mess they've made, employing people who understand why you might want a functional style of coding rather than an object oriented one.
Admin
This was a very good idea. I will try to adapt a similar pattern in enterprise software I developing.
Admin
That's very interesting!
I'm a woman, I don't have a degree (worked very hard for it, but fell into a friggin' administrative loop in college), and I work in a videogame company.
Exceptions make the rule, I guess.
Admin
Admin
FTFY.
Admin
I believe there's a documentary about this very subject. I can't remember exactly, but I think it's called something "Science".
Admin
U MAD?
Admin
Admin
+1. Because everyone knows that executing the same DB call twice has no additional effects.