• lgonggr (cs)

    I work with a 99 % undocumented system comprising more as 8500 source files.

    Half the code was written by employees who no longer work here.

    Even 'documentation' like this would make my days a lot brighter :)

  • Pete (unregistered)

    What's the point here?

    Certainly, randomly subjecting somebody to an inexpert lecture on a subject they already know about is not the kind of behaviour to be encouraged, but this isn't www.businessmanners.com. There isn't even any suggestion that Bill's explanation was wildly, humorously wrong, just mis-targetted. And as for his diagram, I've drawn any number of scribbles like that, usually on whiteboards during architecture meetings. It's not meant to be a standalone item to be understood on its own after the fact, it's the accumulation of continuous illustrative accompaniments to what was being said at each moment. To understand it, you have to be listening while it's drawn, and there's nothing wrong with that.

     So what's the point here?
     

  • gl (unregistered) in reply to lgonggr
    lgonggr:

    I work with a 99 % undocumented system comprising more as 8500 source files.

    Half the code was written by employees who no longer work here.

    Even 'documentation' like this would make my days a lot brighter :)

     

    In that case, you should feel free to use this diagram as your documentation.

  • InvalidHandleValue (cs) in reply to lgonggr
    lgonggr:

    Even 'documentation' like this would make my days a lot brighter :)

    Our codebase is documented, and by documented I mean three years ago someone ran maybe 50% through doxygen and put the resultant HTML on the intranet. 

     I attempted to sell to the powers that be a more useful initiative, but was told that this would suffice.  And those same powers complain that it takes too long to get new hires up to speed....
     

  • alexp (unregistered)

    Is that Anne's desk in the top left?

  • Hartmut (unregistered)

    This must have been the first time in my life that i've seen 1-based binary data ...

     1 1 1 2 1 1 . . .


     

  • KattMan (cs) in reply to alexp

    With the knowledge that this post along with half a dozen others above me will be deleted because they do not fit with what someone wants this site to say...

    If this is one of the best of 2006, then I know why we aren't seeing much code any more.  Even the Code Snippet if the Day isn't daily.

  • Kurt Werle (unregistered) in reply to Pete
    Anonymous:

    What's the point here?

    Certainly, randomly subjecting somebody to an inexpert lecture on a subject they already know about is not the kind of behaviour to be encouraged, but this isn't www.businessmanners.com. There isn't even any suggestion that Bill's explanation was wildly, humorously wrong, just mis-targetted. And as for his diagram, I've drawn any number of scribbles like that, usually on whiteboards during architecture meetings. It's not meant to be a standalone item to be understood on its own after the fact, it's the accumulation of continuous illustrative accompaniments to what was being said at each moment. To understand it, you have to be listening while it's drawn, and there's nothing wrong with that.

     So what's the point here?
     

     

    WTF is is that drawing?
  • Ghost Ware Wizard (cs)

    I love it when management doesn't know what they're talking about when they talk to actual programmers but to other management types they do.

    i had one manager tell me to use GetCurrentUser() and all the groups should appear that they have in their AD profile.  I had to point out in the web world 1. anonymous 2. network service 3. <font size="2">HttpContext.Current.User.Identity.Name returns only the domain\userid of the person logged in 4. that i would have to query AD for that userid to get their groups.</font>

    <sheesh/><font size="2"></font>

  • DWalker59 (cs) in reply to KattMan

    It looks like a house with a long driveway... and trees and bushes on the right side....

  • Hugh Brown (unregistered)

    If this site is for whining about how bad an IT life is, this post is not making the case. Now if you had a story about out of control projects that eat up money and people or maybe a story about a system without source code that was maintained by decompiling the binaries and then throwing away the source or maybe a story about an antique system maintained entirely through domain specific languages, translators, and interpreters to emulate a language no longer used -- then we'd have something funny.

     

  • WIldpeaks (cs)

    I might be insane (well 4 out of the 5 voices in my head say so at least) but didn't we get a similar story some monthes ago ? That "diagram" looks familiar somehow

  • Cowbert (unregistered) in reply to Pete

    Yeah, my whiteboard is covered with diagrams like that, so I'm not sure what the objective of this dailywtf was either.

  • sir_flexalot (cs)

    When I started reading and saw the diagram, I assumed it was something humorous about the office layout... that sure looks like a diagram of an office, up until you see the "n-tier" balloon.  That's when you know why the 'absolute lowest bid, regardless of quality' is accepted over the 'most likely to be good quality bid'.

  • Lumbergh (unregistered) in reply to WIldpeaks

    WIldpeaks:
    I might be insane (well 4 out of the 5 voices in my head say so at least) but didn't we get a similar story some monthes ago ? That "diagram" looks familiar somehow


    Oh man, brace yourself, this won't be pretty.

  • kmactane (cs) in reply to WIldpeaks

    WIldpeaks:
    I might be insane (well 4 out of the 5 voices in my head say so at least) but didn't we get a similar story some monthes ago ? That "diagram" looks familiar somehow

    I was wondering just how long it would take before someone complained about the "duplicate" post. (Hint: look at the Subject/Title of the post you're commenting on.)

     

  • greyrat (unregistered) in reply to Lumbergh

    Dude, I wish I could rate you up...

     

    Captcha: quality

  • Random (unregistered) in reply to WIldpeaks

    Yeah, probably right around January 26th.

  • Ryan (unregistered) in reply to Pete

    I agree.  Whiteboard drawings are not works of art, whether in the classroom or in the office.  Nor are they games of pictionary.  You are spending most of your time TALKING when drawing them, explaining what is in the diagram.  There's nothing about this that seems remotely abnormal.  Normally I would just say "try again thedailywtf" but this is in "best of 2006?"

  • WIldpeaks (cs) in reply to Lumbergh

    My very very bad, i was still reading the past days' submission and hadn't seen Alex's comment about the further submissions.

  • jer (unregistered) in reply to KattMan
    KattMan:

    With the knowledge that this post along with half a dozen others above me will be deleted because they do not fit with what someone wants this site to say...

    If this is one of the best of 2006, then I know why we aren't seeing much code any more.  Even the Code Snippet if the Day isn't daily.

    I'm crushing your head...

  • AndrewVos (unregistered) in reply to Hartmut
    Anonymous:

    This must have been the first time in my life that i've seen 1-based binary data ...

     1 1 1 2 1 1 . . .


     

    HAHA YEAH! Looked like a crap WTF till I saw that!

  • Licky Lindsay (unregistered)

    I'm sure being a woman doesn't help her either. (Male) managers probably find stupid excuses to talk to her just so they can stare at her chest. The engineers are probably just as bad, except they stare at her feet instead.

  • John Bigboote (cs)

    Ah, yes, we had a sh*tstorm about this one the first time it was posted.

    It's perfectly clear. The smart client emits a turkey off the starboard bow, which is then sent directly to the Weber grill. What's so hard to understand about that? 

  • Thief^ (cs) in reply to lgonggr
    lgonggr:

    I work with a 99 % undocumented system comprising more as 8500 source files.

    Half the code was written by employees who no longer work here.

    Even 'documentation' like this would make my days a lot brighter :)

    At work I work with code that is a mix of the following:

    • A multi-platform engine that only has decent documentation for the previous version, and several things work VERY differently.
    • A company-specific extension to this engine that involves extending almost everything, with next-to-no docs.
    • Most of a different piece of software based on the above two, also with no docs
    • Small amounts of a different piece of software based on a slightly older version of the first two, with docs, but in a completely different place
    • And our own code, mostly documented.

    Note that everything I've listed is a work-in progress, we're not even building on a stable/release base.


    Oh, and it's a mixture of 3 different languages, C++, UnrealScript and Shader code (small amounts).

    Yes, it's a game.

    The source folder is ~7200 files and 210MB.

    I feel your pain.

  • Jeepy (unregistered)

    Never misunderestimate an executive's ability to glum on to power words and over-use them without having any idea of their meaning or proper context

    But for those of you who don't know what this WTF is all about, you're probably management material, so you should be happy.  Go back to your corner office and sharpen pencils until we need you. 

    In the meantime, please feel free to design a system of "n-tiers" and "smart clients."  Maybe you can show us how to connect the AD via ActiveX to the Ruby on Rails and make a Cascading Style Sheet that provides sustainable competitive advantage and fosters team building & monetized e-commerce.

    And let's be fair here, "smart client" is being more than a little disingenuous.
     

  • marvin_rabbit (cs) in reply to gl
    Anonymous:
    lgonggr:

    I work with a 99 % undocumented system comprising more as 8500 source files.

    Half the code was written by employees who no longer work here.

    Even 'documentation' like this would make my days a lot brighter :)

     
    In that case, you should feel free to use this diagram as your documentation.

    That gives me an idea for a great new Rorschach Documentation system.... 

  • <slight hand gesture />You don't need to know my name (unregistered) in reply to marvin_rabbit

    I thought that today's diagram looks eerily like yesterday's Codethulu illustration

  • Scientific Genius (unregistered)

    I can't believe there are nearly 30 posts and nobody has mentioned that an "n-tiers" system with "smart clients" is probably a design WTF in the making.  If your clients aren't relatively thin, then what are the middle n-2 tiers doing?

  • PxP (unregistered) in reply to Scientific Genius

    Where is the XML?

  • discomeats (unregistered) in reply to Scientific Genius
    Anonymous:
    I can't believe there are nearly 30 posts and nobody has mentioned that an "n-tiers" system with "smart clients" is probably a design WTF in the making.  If your clients aren't relatively thin, then what are the middle n-2 tiers doing?

    My guess is facilitating empowerment of an enterprise grade b2b relationship

    I feel dirty now.

  • Dismayed (unregistered) in reply to WIldpeaks

    WIldpeaks:
    I might be insane (well 4 out of the 5 voices in my head say so at least) but didn't we get a similar story some monthes ago ? That "diagram" looks familiar somehow

    Um, these are best-of-06 'repeats', so if you're a regular here, it's 100% likely you saw this already!

  • Tom Dibble (unregistered) in reply to Pete

    What's the point here?

    Certainly, randomly subjecting somebody to an inexpert lecture on a subject they already know about is not the kind of behaviour to be encouraged, but this isn't www.businessmanners.com. There isn't even any suggestion that Bill's explanation was wildly, humorously wrong, just mis-targetted. And as for his diagram, I've drawn any number of scribbles like that, usually on whiteboards during architecture meetings. It's not meant to be a standalone item to be understood on its own after the fact, it's the accumulation of continuous illustrative accompaniments to what was being said at each moment. To understand it, you have to be listening while it's drawn, and there's nothing wrong with that.

     So what's the point here?


    I agree completely. I don't see the "WTF" here, other than trying to decipher a conversational aid as documentation.

    Has no one else illustrated a point using whiteboard and/or pen/paper instead of waving your hands around?  I know that just about every engineering discussion I've ever had involving semi-complex concepts has produced scribbles just like the above.

    I've also started to notice that, often, a person will just start to write something on the whiteboard, maybe get as far as making a single dot while talking, then instead describe it all verbally.  Thereafter, I find that about half the time they will, at some point or other, point at that dot or still-empty spot on the whiteboard whenever hearkening back to the concept they were on at the time.  I find this mildly amusing, but, again, not exactly "WTF" material.

  • Tom Dibble (unregistered) in reply to Scientific Genius
    Anonymous:
    I can't believe there are nearly 30 posts and nobody has mentioned that an "n-tiers" system with "smart clients" is probably a design WTF in the making.  If your clients aren't relatively thin, then what are the middle n-2 tiers doing?

    Again, this was a conversational aid, by the account given, not a document describing a proposed architecture.  Often such artifacts will include multiple incompatible scenarios.  They're not meant as documentation of anything, just something to point at while talking.

  • ssprencel (cs) in reply to Licky Lindsay

    Licky Lindsay:
    I'm sure being a woman doesn't help her either. (Male) managers probably find stupid excuses to talk to her just so they can stare at her chest. The engineers are probably just as bad, except they stare at her feet instead.

    Cartman, what the hell are you talking about? 

    Are you saying that all engineers have a foot fetish or are they too shy to look at your breast?  Lindsay, are you being sexually harassed at work?

  • Tom Dibble (unregistered) in reply to AndrewVos
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:

    This must have been the first time in my life that i've seen 1-based binary data ...

     1 1 1 2 1 1 . . .


     

    HAHA YEAH! Looked like a crap WTF till I saw that!


    Which, again, is likely to be your misinterpretation.  I don't think I've ever seen someone writing out example binary data.  However, I do often see a stream of such numbers as example packet or order sizes (they'll usually send one item at a time, sometimes two, which needs to be pulled out or handled separately, hence the arrow leading away from it).

    Sigh.  Whatever, enough rationalizing this.  If you weren't there when the conversation took place, you have no reason to criticize because, frankly, the artifact here is completely inscrutable.  Which would be a problem if it were meant as documentation instead, but if it was that should have been included in the story.

    I still don't see a WTF here other than the obvious and certainly not "best of 2006" interruption of work by managers due to boredom waiting for a meeting.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to AndrewVos
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:

    This must have been the first time in my life that i've seen 1-based binary data ...

     1 1 1 2 1 1 . . .


     

    HAHA YEAH! Looked like a crap WTF till I saw that!

     

    If you look closely you will see:
    "Ver" next to it. It's a version number, not binary.

  • ssprencel (cs) in reply to Tom Dibble
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:

    This must have been the first time in my life that i've seen 1-based binary data ...

     1 1 1 2 1 1 . . .


     

    HAHA YEAH! Looked like a crap WTF till I saw that!


    Which, again, is likely to be your misinterpretation.  I don't think I've ever seen someone writing out example binary data.  However, I do often see a stream of such numbers as example packet or order sizes (they'll usually send one item at a time, sometimes two, which needs to be pulled out or handled separately, hence the arrow leading away from it).

    Sigh.  Whatever, enough rationalizing this.  If you weren't there when the conversation took place, you have no reason to criticize because, frankly, the artifact here is completely inscrutable.  Which would be a problem if it were meant as documentation instead, but if it was that should have been included in the story.

    I still don't see a WTF here other than the obvious and certainly not "best of 2006" interruption of work by managers due to boredom waiting for a meeting.

    Wow.  This really seemed to touch a nerve with someone.  My goodness, if you don't have a sense of humor, then ask to borrow someone's.

  • v6h10p6 (cs) in reply to Pete

    The point here is this was drive-by (read the title). If you are in conference and draw like this fine but just to show how much you know if you just drop-in in to somebody's office and start drawing stuff like this then that makes a big WTF.

     

  • KattMan (cs) in reply to v6h10p6
    v6h10p6:

    The point here is this was drive-by (read the title). If you are in conference and draw like this fine but just to show how much you know if you just drop-in in to somebody's office and start drawing stuff like this then that makes a big WTF.

     

    Whatever.  The best WTF's these days are found in the sidebar.  Even the latest CSOTD was a copy from the sidebar from a few days prior.  The front page is more of a distraction now.

  • Anon (unregistered)

    "Why thank you Bill! That is the spitting image of .NET! Worthy of websters. I appreciate your explanation so much I will display this diagram in my cube for from now on for future reference."

  • sf (unregistered) in reply to KattMan
    KattMan:

    With the knowledge that this post along with half a dozen others above me will be deleted because they do not fit with what someone wants this site to say...

    If this is one of the best of 2006, then I know why we aren't seeing much code any more.  Even the Code Snippet if the Day isn't daily.

    You should ask for a refund. 

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    You're right - this is a version number. Maybe the guy was talking about how to update winforms apps by using server manifests that track versions.....

    Sweet - my captcha text for this post is "initech"

  • cavemanf16 (cs)

    C'mon, that's a great WTF! You just have to give it some time... like a fine work of art you need to sit and gaze at its various, wonderful facets of WTFery to truly appreciate it in total.

    Take for example, the "ver (or maybe it's 'var'?) 1.1..1.2.1.1....." - so is that the binary stream sent from the "smart client" to the server? Is it the version number of the application? Why is the 2 being instructed to take a shit? Clearly her VP was far more clever in the ways of .NET streaming and versioning than she was.

    And then there's the dead body at the top with several gunshots... or... well, I can't see how that was used in the "talking points" at all.

    There's the obvious frustration being shown as VP explains to .NET coder how that n-tier *really* works despite her obvious attempts at logic down in the guts of what I can only imagine is a server farm, or the implosion of the twin towers.

    And lastly, but certainly not least of all, there is the lowly "Data wh." (data warehouse I assume) which exists somewhere in this gods-awful mess connected to the peers, who are connected to the n-tier, and who are also connected to the dead body.

     

    Can no one truly appreciate a fine work of art anymore?!?
     

  • Tom Dibble (unregistered) in reply to ssprencel
    ssprencel:

    Wow.  This really seemed to touch a nerve with someone.  My goodness, if you don't have a sense of humor, then ask to borrow someone's.


    Heh, sorry about the multiple posts.  I suppose it did hit a nerve, for two reasons:

    1.  I look at my whiteboard or that of just about any other engineer in my organization any day of the week and I see different versions of that diagram.  I walk into meeting rooms and come across such diagrams almost every time (and when I do come across such it is because engineers just left; managers and marketing tend to leave much more documentation-style scribbles that make complete sense).  So, either people on this site have no experience with real-world engineering, or every engineer that I respect in my organization (and, for that matter, my previous organizations as well) is really a pinhead-in-training.

    2.  I came here expecting the Best of 2006.  I came to the site late in the year, and so was ready to get caught up on the best of the year without wading through the entire archives.  This was a serious let-down.  I'd have picked just about all of the posts from the past week before picking this one as a "best of".  Which, of course, would be silly, and I understand the need to pick "best of" which span the entire year.  However, it leads me to conclude that the site got significantly stronger in the latter half of the year than in the beginning.  Was this really the best WTF of the first month or so of the year?

    In any case, I've already written too much here.  Sorry for taking up your time, and you may return to ridiculing someone else's doodles.

    [Captcha is "bedtime" ...  a bit early, but all the same ...]

  • Zemyla (cs) in reply to Jeepy
    Anonymous:

    Never misunderestimate an executive's ability to glum on to power words and over-use them without having any idea of their meaning or proper context


    This is clearly Power Word: Confuse.  Or maybe Power Word: Kill at higher levels.
     

  • CodeSlave (unregistered) in reply to lgonggr

    I think we work at the same company!

  • ssprencel (cs) in reply to Tom Dibble
    Anonymous:
    ssprencel:

    Wow.  This really seemed to touch a nerve with someone.  My goodness, if you don't have a sense of humor, then ask to borrow someone's.


    Heh, sorry about the multiple posts.  I suppose it did hit a nerve, for two reasons:

    1.  I look at my whiteboard or that of just about any other engineer in my organization any day of the week and I see different versions of that diagram.  I walk into meeting rooms and come across such diagrams almost every time (and when I do come across such it is because engineers just left; managers and marketing tend to leave much more documentation-style scribbles that make complete sense).  So, either people on this site have no experience with real-world engineering, or every engineer that I respect in my organization (and, for that matter, my previous organizations as well) is really a pinhead-in-training.

    2.  I came here expecting the Best of 2006.  I came to the site late in the year, and so was ready to get caught up on the best of the year without wading through the entire archives.  This was a serious let-down.  I'd have picked just about all of the posts from the past week before picking this one as a "best of".  Which, of course, would be silly, and I understand the need to pick "best of" which span the entire year.  However, it leads me to conclude that the site got significantly stronger in the latter half of the year than in the beginning.  Was this really the best WTF of the first month or so of the year?

    In any case, I've already written too much here.  Sorry for taking up your time, and you may return to ridiculing someone else's doodles.

    [Captcha is "bedtime" ...  a bit early, but all the same ...]

     I have these sketches around my desk too but before this post (the first time) I never thought twice about them.  Now when I see them (on top of my desk, under my desk, under my monitor, sticking out from under my keyboard, etc) I kind of chuckle to my self a little bit.  This is also the case with the code that I maintain everyday.  Just imagine having to maintain old COBAL code, written by programmers who taught themselves Visual Basic...4.  You want to talk about some WTFs! 

    I would loose my sanity if I couldn't laugh at myself and my current situation.  This is why I come to thedailywtf.com, not just to laugh at twisted and perverted code that someone else has to maintain, but lighten up a little bit and remind me to laugh.

     

  • steven22 (unregistered)

    I showed this article to my boss.  He asked me to download the diagram and email it to him so he can use it in a presentation.

  • Hairy Monkey (unregistered) in reply to PxP
    Anonymous:
    Where is the XML?

    It's on the print on the wooden table. Someone stole the digital camera.

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