• Adam (unregistered) in reply to Spock
    Spock:
    I don't mind being in a minority - it's OK - because my customers get the last laugh.
    So you're a LN developer (and I use the term loosely), eh? I would hope for your sake that your next prospective employer doesn't have to use LN on a daily basis. One look at your CV, and you'd be out the door faster than it takes me to get seriously annoyed when I paste some text into a Notes email and it grinds away for ages before plastering the "best guess" formatting the copied text came with across the page and ruining my composition, and then having to delete it and use "paste special" and then actually click on "Text" to paste the clipboard contents as plain text which is, 99 times out of 100, what anyone actually wants to do. I mean, WTF?

    I can see it now:

    Mr Big: So, you worked on Notes, eh? Spock: I did indeed. I'm in quite a minority, don't you know. Mr Big: Get out. Spock: Ok, name one thing that's wrong with Notes! Mr Big: It's the bane of my life! Spock: Is that supposed to be funny? That's not a specific thing. And remember, it's version 8 now, so you're not allowed to mention anything that was crap before. Mr Big: Security! Spock: Oh, is that a tumble weed rolling across your desk!?

    To be a fly on the wall...

  • Adam (unregistered) in reply to TJ
    TJ:
    As an interviewer: Q One: Have you ever been involved in Lotus Notes development or recommended Lotus Notes to any Customer of yours? A: Yes - eject interviewee forcibly from room. A: No - continue with interview
    Dayum, you got in there first ;o)
  • Shill (unregistered) in reply to Adam
    Adam:
    TJ:
    As an interviewer: Q One: Have you ever been involved in Lotus Notes development or recommended Lotus Notes to any Customer of yours? A: Yes - eject interviewee forcibly from room. A: No - continue with interview
    Dayum, you got in there first ;o)

    But yours was funnier.

  • Simon Limey (unregistered) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    Daz:
    'Please do not press this button': Someone's been reading H2G2

    Daz

    Don't Panic!

    No, I've been reading the BOFH lately.

    CAPTCHA = onomatopoeia onomatopoeia onomatopoeia onomatopoeia onomatopoeia onomatopoeia SNAKE! onomatopoeia onomatopoeia....

  • Fuji (unregistered) in reply to KenW
    KenW:
    I think we've found the architect of Lotus Notes!

    Frank LLoyd Wrong?

  • TechGuy (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    The cable labels gave me flashbacks. At my old position we had to label every cable to a ridiculous degree.

    Ethernet data cables had to be a certain color and Ethernet management cables (DRACs, LOM) had to be a different color. So right off the bat we had to swap out 95% of the cables in our facility.

    Every Ethernet cable had to be labeled on both ends with:

    1. Server name
    2. Server port (in case the server had multiple NICs)
    3. MAC Address
    4. Switch name
    5. Switch card
    6. Switch port

    So you would end up with a cable "flag" that was about 6 inches long. It was obviously useful, in the case when someone sneaked into the server room and unplugged a random cable (which never happened). Of course if you ever moved anything or renamed a server for a new project you had to make 2 new labels.

    The best part was labeling the power cords. You needed to have the server name and the "slot" the cord was plugged into on the surge suppressor. Then you had to label the end of the surge suppressor and which circuit breaker it plugged back into.

    I used to joke with overly dictatorial sysadmin types... "Careful, I know how to hook 3-phase 440 VAC up to ethernet cables". Maybe it would be taken too seriously these days, though.

  • Marcel (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    The cable labels gave me flashbacks. At my old position we had to label every cable to a ridiculous degree.

    Ethernet data cables had to be a certain color and Ethernet management cables (DRACs, LOM) had to be a different color. So right off the bat we had to swap out 95% of the cables in our facility.

    Every Ethernet cable had to be labeled on both ends with:

    1. Server name
    2. Server port (in case the server had multiple NICs)
    3. MAC Address
    4. Switch name
    5. Switch card
    6. Switch port

    What's wrong with labeling them 1,2,3.... ?? Unless you did it like they did when I started my work. All connectors would be labeled, but wether or not both ends of the cable would be labeled the same was hit-or-miss. something like:

    1---1 2---4 3---7 1---5

    A few cables even had one color on the server side and another at the workstation...the horror.

  • James Schend (unregistered) in reply to TJ
    TJ:
    I have been working as a developer now for nearly 30 years and it was only when I started at my current employer that I realised I had led a very sheltered life.

    With my new experience of notes here I now have two new Job Seeking maxims:

    As an interveiwee: Q One: Do you use Lotus Notes here? A: Yes - Leave interview now! No Really! Now!!! A: No - continue with interview

    As an interviewer: Q One: Have you ever been involved in Lotus Notes development or recommended Lotus Notes to any Customer of yours? A: Yes - eject interviewee forcibly from room. A: No - continue with interview

    Seconded!

    "Do you use Lotus Notes" is now one of the earliest questions I ask at interviews. If they say yes, out the door, save my sanity.

    After my current job experience, I might follow-up with, "Do you use Oracle Apps timecard software?" Holy crap, that's some Enterprisey web-app.

  • yard (unregistered) in reply to Adam
    Adam:
    Mr Big: So, you worked on Notes, eh? Spock: I did indeed. I'm in quite a minority, don't you know. Mr Big: Get out. Spock: Ok, name one thing that's wrong with Notes! Mr Big: It's the bane of my life! Spock: Is that supposed to be funny? That's not a specific thing. And remember, it's version 8 now, so you're not allowed to mention anything that was crap before. Mr Big: Security! Spock: Oh, is that a tumble weed rolling across your desk!?

    Can't stop laughing @ this one! Ha!

  • (cs) in reply to Spock
    Spock:
    Now someone else makes my points for me.

    They chose Lotus Notes.

    Go on....Name a WTF...

    Go on....One WTF....

    ...(remember that Release 8 is the current version, mind)....

    ......and all is silent in the empty desert of your replies, save for the barely-perceptible rustle of the rolling tumbleweed as it swirls away......

    What I'm hearing isn't "rolling tumbleweeds", its the clamor of people pointing out the flaws in notes. I mean seriously, even people who work on notes itself hate it. If you are hearing rolling tumbleweeds, thats probably because you are all alone in your little fan club.

  • Cloak (unregistered) in reply to Brady Kelly
    Brady Kelly:
    pcooper:
    "Press any key to continue and any other key to quit" is a joke error message I've seen long ago (some collection of email taglines, I think). So it's likely intentionally included as a joke in something that's an "internal tool".

    Yes, like the error dialogue I submitted, but wasn't published, from NVidia Forte Manager, which simply announces, "??? 42". That can only be something that was meant to be internal.

    It's asking The Question Of Questions and already gives you the answer.

  • (cs) in reply to KenW

    Aren't you getting tired of repeating the same, old, lame "arguments" you've once read on slashdot? The product has been around for 18 years now, and is still alive and kicking. Why do you think is that?

    You guys truly have proven one thing: you don't know shit about Lotus Notes/Domino.

    Best is the one basing his/her opinion on a screen shot of version 2. That's got to be a release of around 1990. Tell me one application that didn't suck looking at it compared to todays' standards?

    KenW:
    I think we've found the architect of Lotus Notes!

    Seriously, you want a WTF? How about the fact that every other application on Windows uses F5 to refresh, but Notes uses F9 (F5 locks Notes).

    snip..

    And the other thousand non-standard parts of the UI?

    There you prove my point: The architect of Lotus Notes is a guy named Ray Ozzie (Google it), who some couple years ago got hired by Microsoft as CTO, to take over Bill Gates' role, no less.

    Every other application. Are you sure? Even MS is not consistent in its function keys assignment. Ever hit F5 in MS Excel or MS Word for instance? Does it do the same in both these apps as it does in Internet Exploder?

    What UI standards are you talking about? Windoze, Linux, AIX, iSeries, Mac OS, Solaris SPARC? Because Notes runs on all these platforms. Heh.

    All I can say is that Notes/Domino runs pretty smoothly at my place (as it should), and that most users are pretty content with all the functionality provided by the approximately 50 in-house applications that help them do their work more efficiently and more easily. They don't give a shit about nice looking UI as long as it gets their work done.

    I'm with Spock here, even if that makes me come from another planet. So be it. Earth is doomed anyway.

  • Cloak (unregistered) in reply to Spock
    Spock:
    a new customer workflow application with bomb-proof user security, and with off-line usability - under an hour.

    Ehm, do they not use these tiny little text files anymore? One for each Notes user in your domain and it has to be on your local drive? This is the bomb-proof security I remember.

  • Jules (unregistered) in reply to Brady Kelly
    Brady Kelly:
    pcooper:
    "Press any key to continue and any other key to quit" is a joke error message I've seen long ago (some collection of email taglines, I think). So it's likely intentionally included as a joke in something that's an "internal tool".

    Yes, like the error dialogue I submitted, but wasn't published, from NVidia Forte Manager, which simply announces, "??? 42". That can only be something that was meant to be internal.

    Look, 42 is the answer to the most important question in life. The prefix '???' is because nobody knows the question. Naturally this was left out. You don't want to attract Vogon attention do you?

  • Keith Hackney (unregistered) in reply to Taz
    Taz:
    Best is the one basing his/her opinion on a screen shot of version 2. That's got to be a release of around 1990. Tell me one application that didn't suck looking at it compared to todays' standards?

    You don't think I may have been joking? Well never mind I guess it was subtle, in the same way having a telegraph pole stuck in your eye is subtle.

    By the way what Adam said at the top of this page is the funniest thing I've ever read.

  • (cs) in reply to Adam
    Adam:
    Mr Big: So, you worked on Notes, eh? Spock: I did indeed. I'm in quite a minority, don't you know. Mr Big: Get out. Spock: Ok, name one thing that's wrong with Notes! Mr Big: It's the bane of my life! Spock: Is that supposed to be funny? That's not a specific thing. And remember, it's version 8 now, so you're not allowed to mention anything that was crap before. Mr Big: Security! Spock: Oh, is that a tumble weed rolling across your desk!?
    ...aaand ZING!
  • rhs (unregistered) in reply to Cloak
    Cloak:

    Ehm, do they not use these tiny little text files anymore? One for each Notes user in your domain and it has to be on your local drive? This is the bomb-proof security I remember.

    Ehm, no. The tiny little files are ID files. One for each user in your domain. They are not text files. They have never been text files.

    They are encrypted using a password-derived key and a strong cipher that might be crackable by the NSA, but not by anyone else. The password can be brute-forced if not chosen properly, but password quality controls were added to the product years ago.

    The files contain the users' private keys, digitally signed by certifiers authorized to create users in your domain. The private keys are used for PKI-based authentication. Notes was the first widely-deployed system with PKI-based security, and still (last I heard) has the largest installed base of PKI users in the industry. The public/private key pairs are also used for digital signature and encryption of messages and documents.

    Nowadays you can keep your tiny little file, with your private key, on a smartcard. Perhaps the same smartcard that you use for your VPN access -- great new technology that is essentially the same as what Lotus had in place 18 years ago.

  • Keith Hackney (unregistered)

    Enough with the LotusNotophiles, it is a disgusting program for complete cretins to program in.

    There is tumbleweed rolling everywhere whenever someone suggests using LN to do anything even semi serious.

  • Herix (unregistered) in reply to rhs

    I concur. Indeed I've never heard of a security or privacy breach involving Notes. And I learned to live with the astonishement I feel whenever I bump into some "new technology" painfully hacked contraption enabling some features that's been available off the shelf for 20 years.

    Now, I do understand that real programmers feel a bit at lost on first encouter whith Notes. There is not much of java magic left to be done.

    Real programers don't use Notes. People who mean serious business do.

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