• (cs) in reply to vr602
    vr602:
    brian:
    I see...so if 20 people are waiting for elevators and they press in their floor numbers and 3 elevators show up, how do they know which elevator are they supposed to get into? does the elevator announce which floors it's going to - like a conductor? deaf people would love that system. perhaps there is an lcd panel (or braille screen) on the outside of each door to indicate which floors each elevator is going to.
    In my last office (building of 17 floors), there were 8 lifts, with a system whereby you went to a screen outside the lift, and pressed the button for the floor you wanted. The screen would then tell you which lift to get into (A-H). It was a complete nightmare - you could wait ages to get into 'your' lift, then find it full, so have to start all over again. Or find yourself coming down from the 10th floor, stopping at every floor, doors open, no-one gets in or out, doors close... Thank god we moved from there. And no, I don't know what blind people were supposed to do.
    My office building has some level of "intelligence" built-in. When you press the "up" or "down" button, one of the elevators is chosen, and will light up the "up" or "down" light in advance; it's supposed to be chosen by some kind of algorithm giving you the fastest-to-arrive elevator beforehand.

    Except that three of the six elevators are currently out of service, and the algorithm seems to be on the fritz, as the following usually happens:

    • Elevators at: B2, B4, 1
    • Press "up" arrow at PB (that's "ground floor", or Floor 0)
    • The second elevator lights up
    • Elevator 1 whizzes through, going all the way up to Floor 3. It doesn't stop at PB, 'coz The Algorithm has already chosen the One True Elevator.
    • Elevator 3 goes down to B1.
    • Elevator 3 whizzes through to Floor 1, also ignoring PB for the same reason the other one skipped.
    • Elevator 2 goes up to B2.
    • Elevator 2 goes up to B1 (probably to get someone who missed Elevator 3.)
    • FINALLY, Elevator 2 stops at PB, at which point half the people have gone to the stairs, deciding to do some morning excercise. (2 minutes have elapsed since the first "up arrow" press.)

    At least these elevators have one "kiddy-proof" feature: they "de-select" all floors on direction change; so some joker going to the last floor, pressing all the floor buttons won't cause any delays.

  • Bob (unregistered) in reply to danixdefcon5
    danixdefcon5:
    vr602:
    brian:
    I see...so if 20 people are waiting for elevators and they press in their floor numbers and 3 elevators show up, how do they know which elevator are they supposed to get into? does the elevator announce which floors it's going to - like a conductor? deaf people would love that system. perhaps there is an lcd panel (or braille screen) on the outside of each door to indicate which floors each elevator is going to.
    In my last office (building of 17 floors), there were 8 lifts, with a system whereby you went to a screen outside the lift, and pressed the button for the floor you wanted. The screen would then tell you which lift to get into (A-H). It was a complete nightmare - you could wait ages to get into 'your' lift, then find it full, so have to start all over again. Or find yourself coming down from the 10th floor, stopping at every floor, doors open, no-one gets in or out, doors close... Thank god we moved from there. And no, I don't know what blind people were supposed to do.
    My office building has some level of "intelligence" built-in. When you press the "up" or "down" button, one of the elevators is chosen, and will light up the "up" or "down" light in advance; it's supposed to be chosen by some kind of algorithm giving you the fastest-to-arrive elevator beforehand.

    Except that three of the six elevators are currently out of service, and the algorithm seems to be on the fritz, as the following usually happens:

    • Elevators at: B2, B4, 1
    • Press "up" arrow at PB (that's "ground floor", or Floor 0)
    • The second elevator lights up
    • Elevator 1 whizzes through, going all the way up to Floor 3. It doesn't stop at PB, 'coz The Algorithm has already chosen the One True Elevator.
    • Elevator 3 goes down to B1.
    • Elevator 3 whizzes through to Floor 1, also ignoring PB for the same reason the other one skipped.
    • Elevator 2 goes up to B2.
    • Elevator 2 goes up to B1 (probably to get someone who missed Elevator 3.)
    • FINALLY, Elevator 2 stops at PB, at which point half the people have gone to the stairs, deciding to do some morning excercise. (2 minutes have elapsed since the first "up arrow" press.)

    At least these elevators have one "kiddy-proof" feature: they "de-select" all floors on direction change; so some joker going to the last floor, pressing all the floor buttons won't cause any delays.

    Then just press both buttons so it gives you the first elevator that comes.

    Anyway, their optimization is stupid since you still have to wait either way, it's just their way you wait outside the elevator. And you also probably have to wait more.

  • MM (unregistered) in reply to Richard
    US First Floor = UK Ground Floor US Second Floor = UK First Floor
    Or for a lot of buildings in the US, the floor at ground level is the ground floor and the one above it is the second floor. We just don't have a 1 at all.
  • Mr. V (unregistered) in reply to v.dog
    v.dog:
    TRWFF is that they simply didn't replace the buttons 0 and - with G and B

    These keypads operate two types of lifts - high rise, which go from the basemenent (-1) to the 25th floor and low rise which only go to the 9th floor.

    And the lifts do not have any buttons on the inside (apart from "open door", "close door" and "alarm").

  • (cs)

    To me that numbering in the elevator makes sense. But, how do you push 10, 11, 12? Do you need to push some number and ENTER, or push 2 digit for each one? Or is just no more than 9 floors above the ground floor? I also see the * button and wheelchair button? And where is door open and door close button? But, floor -1 for basement (and 0 for the ground floor) is perfectly sensible to me and doesn't seem a mistake, please.

  • DKO (unregistered) in reply to Smash King
    Smash King:
    In South America we use the smart system too. Above the ground floor there's the first floor. I believe Africa must be the same.

    My building (in Brazil) starts from T (for ground), then 1, 2, and so on. My sister's previous previous address started from 1 (ground), then 2, 3, and so on. Both are relatively old buildings, with the very same elevator supplier.

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to Laurie Laptop
    Laurie Laptop:
    These lift controls are very popular in Europe. I guess it's because you can install them cheaply in a building with any number of floors.

    I haven't designed an elevator user control panel, but I presume they have one or more more-or-less stock keypad circuit boards, which they populate with desired number of buttons, and then custom-mill a front plate. Such buttons would be on some regular grid. A "common" subsection, containing fireman's operators, emergency etc. elements would be on its own board, perhaps.

    You save by using a not-fit-for-the-application generic keypad you found in a catalog. Yet it's a UI abomination. If it's in the elevator and requires instructions for day-to-day use, it means something's wrong. How hard do we have to make things?

    I'd instead focus on making the common UI (modular boards + custom front panel) most economical - both on production and service side of things. Perhaps investing in a NC engraver with a fill-in head would help with making the panels (vs. going to say frontpanelexpress.com) and also labeling the buttons.

    The boards could surely be single-sided, and perhaps without green solder mask (resist). One could spray them with something after assembly/testing. All those little things save money if you do them in volume.

    The soldering of through-hole pushbuttons to the boards should be easy enough and take very little time of a typical electronics assembly technician.

    Anyway, I'm pretty much disgusted with the "user interface" as shown. I hope there are emergency controls somewhere!

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to jmroth
    jmroth:
    Floor -1: Actually in Europe, -1 is a quite common denomination for the basement. If there are several lower parking decks, that would be -2, -3 etc. I have seen those controls in many newer (and also public) buildings. You have to tell the elevator where to go and INSIDE the cabin, there will be NO controls and you're on your own. Good luck.

    This UI is so retarded I can't believe that it's actually approved for use. It fails almost every good UI design principle.

    1. Feedback: how do people (not only you!) know where the elevator will stop?

    2. More feedback: how do you tell which floor you're on?

    3. Resiliency: if one button fails, how much functionality do you loose? If one display element fails (in this case, a LED or VFD column/row line!), how much information is lost?

    4. How do you stop it in an emergency? What about calling someone somewhere for help? A bell button, at least?! Even the most basic elevators in Poland, in times deep behind the iron curtain, had a bell button. It did save many an ass, since the things were badly maintained and often got stuck with doors closed.

    I have never seen an elevator with such an interface, but if I ever see one I will just take the stairs, thank you. And, if possible, won't ever do business in that building again -- and tell whomever I was going to do business with about the reason they won't hear from me again.

    I'm really disturbed that such an abomination exists :(

  • (cs) in reply to Mr. V
    Mr. V:
    v.dog:
    TRWFF is that they simply didn't replace the buttons 0 and - with G and B

    These keypads operate two types of lifts - high rise, which go from the basemenent (-1) to the 25th floor and low rise which only go to the 9th floor.

    And the lifts do not have any buttons on the inside (apart from "open door", "close door" and "alarm").

    Conceptually, it makes sense to enter your destination when calling the elevator so that they can optimize the elevator use.

    But how does it work having no floor selection buttons inside the elevator? Who hasn't started up in an elevator and realized they need a different floor from the one they thought they did? (Oh s**t, did push 9... they moved to the 19th didn't they?) What do you do then? Get off at 9 and try to punch in 19 beofre the door closes again?

  • Mr. V (unregistered) in reply to Kuba
    Kuba:
    jmroth:
    Floor -1: Actually in Europe, -1 is a quite common denomination for the basement. If there are several lower parking decks, that would be -2, -3 etc. I have seen those controls in many newer (and also public) buildings. You have to tell the elevator where to go and INSIDE the cabin, there will be NO controls and you're on your own. Good luck.

    This UI is so retarded I can't believe that it's actually approved for use. It fails almost every good UI design principle.

    1. Feedback: how do people (not only you!) know where the elevator will stop?

    In the case of the elevators in this submission, there is a window displaying all floors the lift will stop on visible when the doors are open. You do have feedback, in other words.

    Kuba:
    2. More feedback: how do you tell which floor you're on?

    That's easy, these elevators do display the floor you are on.

    Kuba:
    3. Resiliency: if one button fails, how much functionality do you loose? If one display element fails (in this case, a LED or VFD column/row line!), how much information is lost?
    Kuba:
    4. How do you stop it in an emergency? What about calling someone somewhere for help? A bell button, at least?! Even the most basic elevators in Poland, in times deep behind the iron curtain, had a bell button. It did save many an ass, since the things were badly maintained and often got stuck with doors closed.

    They do have an alarm button and a microphone/loudspeaker set to communicate in case of emergency. It does not help you if the elevator gets stuck (as you are still stuck in), but you can call for help.

  • Allan (unregistered) in reply to Carl T

    Yes both of them, and both use the real world system. Regardless of what wikipedia says. Ground floor is called st. and next floor is called 1.sal (1st floor).

  • Pierre (unregistered)

    Add Africa to the list of zero-based floor indices. Any of you ever go to a building with 50 floors? What, would you want 50 buttons on the outside? Wait, what about a button on your phone for every phone number? That'd be cool.

    And about the handicapped button. Pressing that results in the door staying open twice as long to enable people with disabilities to get in/out safely, as well as activating a voice announcing the floor you're stopping at.

    Ignorant people are quick to label the novel as stupid.

  • AllUrBase (unregistered)

    The building I work in has 3 floors.

    From the one you enter through the main entrance you can either go up one floor or down one floor. The building is built on a slope and some of it has been excavated so you have can have daylight in the lower floor.

    The floors are named 1., 2nd and 3. floor.

    So the ground floor is 2 (the one you enter through the main entrance). Supposedly the floors are named such, so noone was supposed to be working "in the basement".

  • Shill (unregistered) in reply to cklam
    cklam:
    Because your 3-floor-building has only two floors. Ground floor doesn't count.

    OK, then the building with the upstairs and downstairs has one floor, correct?

    And so the a building without an upstairs has no floors?

    Sounds perfectly reasonable to me....

  • mickeyding (unregistered)

    I'm still looking for the "#" key. There is a "*" key but not a "#" key ...

  • xorsyst (unregistered)

    I forgot the other common UK denomination for basement - "Lower ground" floor, with LG on the button. This seems to be quite common in department stores like BHS and Marks.

  • Simple arithmetician (unregistered) in reply to Ilya Ehrenburg
    Ilya Ehrenburg:
    cklam:
    Fishy:
    So what is wrong with the first one?

    If it was a 50 storey building should the user be presented 50 unique buttons or a keypad of 10 digits to enter the floor number which can also then cope with floors below ground level?

    One button per permitted destination floor. Everything else is insane - if one button on a numeric keypad fails then 5 out fifty floors can not be accessed.

    Just get out the next floor and use the stairs. But hope it's not button 2 that fails when you have to go to floor 25.
    Go to the floor 30-5

  • (cs) in reply to Ilya Ehrenburg
    Ilya Ehrenburg:
    Just get out the next floor and use the stairs. But hope it's not button 2 that fails when you have to go to floor 25.

    Simple. Did you not see the * and - keys

    So, 7 * 4 - 3 gets you there or 31 - 6

    Seriously though -

    Having intelligent elevator dispatching does help a lot in big buildings.

    Having a keypad instead of buttons helps with intelligent elevator dispatching. If you have to type '23' <enter or wait> then you are less likely to do it repeatedly to 'hurry the elevator' than if there is just a button. If a button is pressed repeatedly with intelligent dispatching, then the software will think more people will be boarding it than actually will be, so the algorithm will work less efficiently.

    Having less intelligent elevators 'share' a large building (eg 2 elevators stopping at alternate floors) makes it hard for disabled people who want to get, say, from floor 10 to floor 15... They probably have to go all the way to the ground floor and back.

  • Henry Miller (unregistered)

    In some buildings without a 13th floor button there is a 13th floor, used for equipment (tall buildings need pumps to get water to the top, not to mention something to slow falling sewage down). Often this floor is only half height as the equipment doesn't need head room. In most cases you won't even realize it is there at all unless you have access to maintance elevators or stairs. (The can sometimes make the 12th floor a little shorter)

    Of course it is on the 13th floor for silly reasons, but there is good reason to have a floor someplace in a tall building dedicated to buiding functions.

  • Tyler (unregistered) in reply to Smash King

    So a house with only a ground floor is a 0-story house?

  • Greg (unregistered)

    Some UK naming conventions in Malaysia...

    There is a difference between 'storey' and 'floor'. A 3-storey house has, indeed, 3 storeys. And indeed, 3 floors. Ground floor, 1st floor, 2nd floor.

    The reason, I suspect, is a rational one. The term 'storey' refers to 'a structure consisting of a room or set of rooms at a single position along a vertical scale'. The term 'floor' refers to (amongst other things, including the selfsame definition of storey) 'the lower surface of a room'. But since the first storey, by definition, is located on the lower surface of wherever it is built, it quite naturally can be called the ground floor.

    Incidentally, Lower Ground floors may theoretically be basements, but here the basement is mostly meant only for car parks; hence if a basement floor actually has shops or whatnot, it's called LG. I've seen Upper Ground floors, and in some cases I've seen B3, B2, B1, LG2, LG1, G, UG1, UG2, 1, 2, 3, ... which truly boggles the mind.

    They're naming conventions, okay? But if you really want to be unambiguous, call them 'storeys'. If you referred to a single-storey house, or a triple-storey mansion, or a 15-storey shopping mall, everyone knows what you're talking about.

    IOW, the 1st storey is the ground floor, and the 2nd storey is the 1st floor. Mostly.

    PS The Japanese word for '4' and 'death' being the same is also true of the Chinese.

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