The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Doozerboy:
fritters:

When I come back, I ask how the demo went. Was the customer wowed? And of course you guys can all guess the answer: "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

This has happened more times than i can remember

fritters:
At least I got lots of overtime pay.

Unfortunately, this hasn't.

Then you sir, are a doormat. I'm not a charity, and I prefer to spend my time at home with family/friends/TV if I'm not being paid.

I would start updating the ole' resume, make a last effort to get compensated for those free working hours, and get a new job/contract anyway.

lyates · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

trtrwtf:
ping floyd:
Slicerwizard:
Hey Remy, Smalltalk is an object-oriented, dynamically typed, reflective programming language. It is not a form of chitchat or idle banter.

There's a Snobol's chance in hell that the younger folks got that...

Ada minimum, I'd say fifteen percent got it. Tops, 20.

+++ DEC the halls!

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

There’s never enough time to do it right, but there’s always enough time to do it over.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

fritters:
"I really need it done in 3 weeks", boss says. "We have a big customer interested in buying product Y. They're coming to visit and having this new feature will really WOW them." ...then later... "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

Now that's the industry standard.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Mike:
fritters:
"I really need it done in 3 weeks", boss says. "We have a big customer interested in buying product Y. They're coming to visit and having this new feature will really WOW them." ...then later... "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

Now that's the industry standard.

Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Here, here.

Whenever I work on any legacy application, my first question is: "When will this be retired?" We are constantly churning projects, but those old issues that have sat around for months/years need to be worked ASAP!

In the end, the old legacy apps rarely go away, except on paper.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

chron3:
martiert:
Actually, I'm 24 and the first thing I thought of was Smalltalk the OO language, not Smalltalk as in smalltalk. Maybe I'm just damaged.

Probably... and I bet you speak with a Lisp also... and geeky enough to have a pet Python at home...

Speaking with a lisp is quite common amongst older programmers - you could practically call it a Common Lisp.

Some of those talk about building an Arc to modern times - but it still does not come CLOS to Smalltalk!

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Sectoid Dev:
Here, here.
Whenever I work on any legacy application, my first question is: "When will this be retired?" We are constantly churning projects, but those old issues that have sat around for months/years need to be worked ASAP!

In the end, the old legacy apps rarely go away, except on paper.

Everyone who has written code that will expire in 2038 (when time_t rolls over), raise your hand...

Coyne · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

They really have the quality plaque wrong: I'm sure they meant "X Q-30".

amischiefr · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

powerlord:
As bad as rolling deadlines are, they're still more flexible than the fixed-in-stone type.

(In the voice of Captain Caveman)it's CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Why didn't they just rolled back the system to old (working) version?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

Here here, I couldn't have said it better myself.

I realize I sounded a little absolutist, but I actually feel more along the lines of what you said. Occasional is OK, but anything more than that and I need to be compensated.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Marcin R:
Why didn't they just rolled back the system to old (working) version?

Developmestruction environment? All those separate dev servers cost, you know and the CFO certainly can't have that...

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Kempeth:
Marcin R:
Why didn't they just rolled back the system to old (working) version?

Developmestruction environment? All those separate dev servers cost, you know and the CFO certainly can't have that...

i prefer the term "Devestuction".

HellKarnassus · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Finbot Saunders:
EatenByAGrue:
chron3:
martiert:
Actually, I'm 24 and the first thing I thought of was Smalltalk the OO language, not Smalltalk as in smalltalk. Maybe I'm just damaged.

Probably... and I bet you speak with a Lisp also... and geeky enough to have a pet Python at home...

So many perls of wisdom here, I'm just sitting here gawking.

That's what she sed

This F#ing madness must end. Please Alex, post a new article aSAP

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

I flat refuse to work overtime, ever. If I can't get it done within my standard working hours (10:30 - 5:30) then it's somebody else's problem. It's nice to be "irreplaceable" (or rather, the only person in the company who has ever developed one of our flagship products - a close second to irreplaceable).

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Why so hasty to end this thread HellKarnassus? I really Hope this could be the Prolog to something good.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Marcin R:
Why didn't they just rolled back the system to old (working) version?

Because it wasn't working any more. They migrated the f**cking database, and switching back to the old system would have meant losing months of customer/orderings/invoices - data.

CAPTCHA: cogo - So googles new programming language supports co-routines?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

callcopse:
Why so hasty to end this thread HellKarnassus? I really Hope this could be the Prolog to something good.

Apparently he objects to this line of talk, and finds it imperative that we move along to something more functional.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

I flat refuse to work overtime, ever. If I can't get it done within my standard working hours (10:30 - 5:30) then it's somebody else's problem. It's nice to be "irreplaceable" (or rather, the only person in the company who has ever developed one of our flagship products - a close second to irreplaceable).

7 hour days? No wonder the EU has to set up massive trade barriers to preserve their second rate economy.

Mason Wheeler · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

amischiefr:
powerlord:
As bad as rolling deadlines are, they're still more flexible than the fixed-in-stone type.

(In the voice of Captain Caveman)it's CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!

It's Captain Obvious?

Captain Obvious says, Akismet sucks and thinks legitimate links are spam!

hoodaticus · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Design Pattern:
Marcin R:
Why didn't they just rolled back the system to old (working) version?
Because it wasn't working any more. They migrated the brainf*ck database, and switching back to the old system would have meant losing months of customer/orderings/invoices - data.
CAPTCHA: cogo - So googles new programming language supports co-routines?

FTFY

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

gar37bic:
A _really_ ambitious, self-reliant person would say, "See, I know why the project failed last time, and I can show you. I'll take the job under the following conditions: I get a one year no-cut contract. I won't quit in that time if the remainder of the terms are kept; otherwise I quit and I get the remainder of the year's pay. If I am fired for any reason I get a full year's pay from the date of firing.
I will take two weeks to analyze the project and come up with a rational timeframe. Based on that project plan, I can hire anybody I need, and pay them 20% above grade with one year no-cut contracts. I will then meet with the CFO, who can either accept the timeframe and the headcount, or pay me my severance on the spot. My pay rate is double the rate of the previous project manager.

If I beat the deadline my team and I get an additional 20% bonus for the year. If I make it within one month of the deadline, we get a 10% bonus. Once the project is done, you and I have a mutual option for me to stay here for the rest of the year, or I leave and take the rest of the year as severance. Take it or leave it - but you'll take it because you have no choice."

If they're desperate enough, they'll take it. Heck, it works in the movies.

Yeah. That's why movies are called "fiction".

In real life, they'd laugh at you and show you to the door. Then they'd hire the guy who says, "Build a rocket to go to the moon in three weeks using nothing but a roll of aluminum foil, a box of wooden pegs, and a rusty fly swatter? No problem. I could do it in two weeks". Then when he fails they start over again with the guy who promises to do it one week, because they've already used up two weeks of the schedule on the first guy.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

trwtf:
hoodaticus:
In the article text, toward the bottom, click on the phrase "how long will it take to fix this?", and be stabbed in the brain by a unicorn.
For one of the regulars you sure took your sweet time discovering the 'corns. Remy's hidden 'corns in every single article he's ever written, as far as I know.

Until now, all my willpower has been focused on not murdering [EDI Trading Partner]. I only recently had the strength to right-click and hit "View Source".

hoodaticus · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

trtrwtf:
callcopse:
Why so hasty to end this thread HellKarnassus? I really Hope this could be the Prolog to something good.

Apparently he objects to this line of talk, and finds it imperative that we move along to something more functional.

I do declare!

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

fritters:
Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

Wow, what a bizarre philosophy.

In my last "salary review", I had to fill out the usual form about "what are your strong points?" and "where do you see opportunities for improvement?". So under "strong points" I put, "Relative lack of a life outside of work."

It went over well with the boss.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

I'm reminded of a job where I was assigned to convert one of our company's applications from assembly language under MS-DOS to C that would work on both MS-DOS and Unix. It was a small company so the project team consisted of: me. It took me about 9 months.

A little later the boss came by and asked how long it would take to do a similar conversion on another product. I was reluctant to commit because I didn't know that much about the other product. So he said, "Well, just roughly. Would it be 2 days? 3 days?"

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

HellKarnassus:
Finbot Saunders:
EatenByAGrue:
chron3:
martiert:
Actually, I'm 24 and the first thing I thought of was Smalltalk the OO language, not Smalltalk as in smalltalk. Maybe I'm just damaged.

Probably... and I bet you speak with a Lisp also... and geeky enough to have a pet Python at home...

So many perls of wisdom here, I'm just sitting here gawking.

That's what she sed

This F#ing madness must end. Please Alex, post a new article aSAP

Be careful with this Strongtalk! Just moderate your Self a bit, or you'll end in the Limbo of Haskell.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Jay:
I'm reminded of a job where I was assigned to convert one of our company's applications from assembly language under MS-DOS to C that would work on both MS-DOS and Unix. It was a small company so the project team consisted of: me. It took me about 9 months.
A little later the boss came by and asked how long it would take to do a similar conversion on another product. I was reluctant to commit because I didn't know that much about the other product. So he said, "Well, just roughly. Would it be 2 days? 3 days?"

Tell me you didn't just tuck you tail between your legs and say "yes boss, I'll work nights, weekends, and through my honeymoon. And since I'll then be divorced, I'll be able to put even MORE time in" (sorry, judging from some of these posts, it seems to be a trend). Or did you refer him to the last conversion project timeline just before excusing yourself for a liquid lunch?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Not of this Earth:
Computer hardware is complex and well engineered. Computer software is complex and shitty. Can anybody tell me why?

Have you never bought a Dell?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Fats Geronimo:
Anonymous:
fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

I flat refuse to work overtime, ever. If I can't get it done within my standard working hours (10:30 - 5:30) then it's somebody else's problem. It's nice to be "irreplaceable" (or rather, the only person in the company who has ever developed one of our flagship products - a close second to irreplaceable).

7 hour days? No wonder the EU has to set up massive trade barriers to preserve their second rate economy.

but when management has their heads so far up their @$$ they can only see the bottom line, they tend not to give a $h1t about the people they run over as they make their buck.

Just my $.02.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Design Pattern:
HellKarnassus:
Finbot Saunders:
EatenByAGrue:
chron3:
martiert:
Actually, I'm 24 and the first thing I thought of was Smalltalk the OO language, not Smalltalk as in smalltalk. Maybe I'm just damaged.

Probably... and I bet you speak with a Lisp also... and geeky enough to have a pet Python at home...

So many perls of wisdom here, I'm just sitting here gawking.

That's what she sed

This F#ing madness must end. Please Alex, post a new article aSAP
Be careful with this Strongtalk! Just moderate your Self a bit, or you'll end in the Limbo of Haskell.

All I see is whitespace

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Fats Geronimo:
Anonymous:
fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

I flat refuse to work overtime, ever. If I can't get it done within my standard working hours (10:30 - 5:30) then it's somebody else's problem. It's nice to be "irreplaceable" (or rather, the only person in the company who has ever developed one of our flagship products - a close second to irreplaceable).

7 hour days? No wonder the EU has to set up massive trade barriers to preserve their second rate economy.

5.5 hours a day. Don't forget lunch and afternoon tea.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

lyates:
trtrwtf:
ping floyd:
Slicerwizard:
Hey Remy, Smalltalk is an object-oriented, dynamically typed, reflective programming language. It is not a form of chitchat or idle banter.

There's a Snobol's chance in hell that the younger folks got that...

Ada minimum, I'd say fifteen percent got it. Tops, 20.

+++ DEC the halls!

Stop the brainfuck. Just write normally.

amischiefr · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

jcsalomon:
K&R :
trtrwtf:
ping floyd:
Slicerwizard:
Hey Remy, Smalltalk is an object-oriented, dynamically typed, reflective programming language. It is not a form of chitchat or idle banter.
There's a Snobol's chance in hell that the younger folks got that...
Ada minimum, I'd say fifteen percent got it. Tops, 20.
I C what you did there.
Me too; and Eiffel over laughing.

Best one yet :p

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

C-Octothorpe:
Doozerboy:
fritters:

When I come back, I ask how the demo went. Was the customer wowed? And of course you guys can all guess the answer: "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

This has happened more times than i can remember

fritters:
At least I got lots of overtime pay.

Unfortunately, this hasn't.

Then you sir, are a doormat. I'm not a charity, and I prefer to spend my time at home with family/friends/TV if I'm not being paid.

I would start updating the ole' resume, make a last effort to get compensated for those free working hours, and get a new job/contract anyway.

So.. you prefer money than your family?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

boog:
I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.

Is the penguin not dead yet? How resilient is this penguin, anyways?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

boog:
I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.

I'm pretty sure you'd go to jale if someone caught you doing that.

Your not too smart, are you?

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

The articles get later and later....

One day I might be able to annoy people with 'Frist'

Captcha: I'll Have my coffee tego

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Kyle Z.:
C-Octothorpe:
Doozerboy:
fritters:

When I come back, I ask how the demo went. Was the customer wowed? And of course you guys can all guess the answer: "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

This has happened more times than i can remember

fritters:
At least I got lots of overtime pay.

Unfortunately, this hasn't.

Then you sir, are a doormat. I'm not a charity, and I prefer to spend my time at home with family/friends/TV if I'm not being paid.

I would start updating the ole' resume, make a last effort to get compensated for those free working hours, and get a new job/contract anyway.

So.. you prefer money than your family?

Where did you read that? What I said (kind of sarcastically) was that if I had the choice of being at work unpaid and being at home unpaid, I would (obviously) much rather be at home. If I'm going to be at work, I am getting paid to be there, end of story.

HellKarnassus · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

frits:
boog:
I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.
I'm pretty sure you'd go to Yale if someone caught you doing that.
Your not too smart, are you?

Oh, that explains Clinton, and probably other politicians.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Abso:
boog:
I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.
Is the penguin not dead yet? How resilient is this penguin, anyways?

It's the stuffed penguin he keeps by his computer. Most of the time he just cuddles with it, telling it how much better of a programmer he is than the people he reads about on TDWTF.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

C-Octothorpe:
Kyle Z.:
C-Octothorpe:
Doozerboy:
fritters:

When I come back, I ask how the demo went. Was the customer wowed? And of course you guys can all guess the answer: "Err, well, we didn't really have time to show them."

This has happened more times than i can remember

fritters:
At least I got lots of overtime pay.

Unfortunately, this hasn't.

Then you sir, are a doormat. I'm not a charity, and I prefer to spend my time at home with family/friends/TV if I'm not being paid.

I would start updating the ole' resume, make a last effort to get compensated for those free working hours, and get a new job/contract anyway.

So.. you prefer money than your family?

Where did you read that? What I said (kind of sarcastically) was that if I had the choice of being at work unpaid and being at home unpaid, I would (obviously) much rather be at home. If I'm going to be at work, I am getting paid to be there, end of story.

What you missed is that he didn't say he didn't get paid at all, he said he didn't get Overtime pay - that is either he didn't work overtime (extra hours exceeding the standard hours-per-day or hours-per-week) or they didn't count the overtime hours as such and just paid him regular wages for his overtime.

boog · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

boog (illegitimate):
I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle the penguin if theirs not an article soon.

That's not a very good idea, my numskulled namesake. Keep doing that and you'll go blind.

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

amischiefr:
powerlord:
As bad as rolling deadlines are, they're still more flexible than the fixed-in-stone type.

(In the voice of Captain Caveman)it's CAPTAIN OBVIOUS!

Is that obvious? I mean, at least with a fixed-in-stone deadline, there comes a point where you can simply give up trying, knowing that it'll have no detrimental effect on the outcome. Rolling deadlines are a carrot you never quite reach

2011-03-02 Reply Admin

I've read this one, it was posted yesterday.

Matt Westwood · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

xntriq:
Matt Westwood:
Bit Head:
some guy:
trwtf:
EatenByAGrue:
chron3:
martiert:
Actually, I'm 24 and the first thing I thought of was Smalltalk the OO language, not Smalltalk as in smalltalk. Maybe I'm just damaged.

Probably... and I bet you speak with a Lisp also... and geeky enough to have a pet Python at home...

So many perls of wisdom here, I'm just sitting here gawking.

Cobol together a stand-up-comedy routine.

That's what she sed.

Groovy.
These are terrific! I'm assembling a list of them. Watfor, I don't know...

I guess you're CLU-less?

Put together a document for tran-ing purposes.

Matt Westwood · 2011-03-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
fritters:
C-Octothorpe:
Man, is it really the norm for developers to be worked to the bone, for free, and usually for nothing (customer doesn't see feature or isn't really THAT critical)? If that's so, either I've had really good luck or my bosses could tell ahead of time that I would laugh in their face if they asked me to work for free...

Well, luckily as I said I was being paid 150% overtime (and if I really wanted to I could probably have charged 200% for working on a statutory holiday, but I just took a different day off in lieu after the deadline was reached).

I wouldn't mind working small amounts of unpaid overtime, occasionally -- every company has tight spots and I identify with my company enough to know that if things go well for them, things go better for me too. And frankly sometimes it's my own fault for goofing off during work hours and not getting it done within 7.5 hours. By "small amounts" I mean, perhaps 1-2 hours a week. I feel embarrassed even writing that down on the timesheet.

But if you expect me to work 12+ hour days, 7 days a week, in order to hit an arbitrary deadline that was imposed upon me, then I definitely expect overtime pay, and lots of it. And even then, I only want to do that sort of pace occasionally.

I know guys who worked like that for years on a stretch. The money was good but nobody ever saw them. I could only handle a pace like that for a few months before I decide that the managers here can't schedule anything properly and I start looking elsewhere. Craploads of overtime pay is nice, but I prefer having time for a life.

I flat refuse to work overtime, ever. If I can't get it done within my standard working hours (10:30 - 5:30) then it's somebody else's problem. It's nice to be "irreplaceable" (or rather, the only person in the company who has ever developed one of our flagship products - a close second to irreplaceable).

One of the reasons why I quit my last job. Not only did I have too much work to do to fit into standard days, so I'd be working evenings like as not, about half the weekends that last year I was working 12+ hour days there as well. All the national holidays I worked (easter, may bank holiday, etc.) and when I did take leave (e.g. for an hour or two to take cat to the vet) I still worked a full day - and never got the holiday back again. None of this overtime was ever paid for - that wasn't the deal - the deal was that I get my assigned work done. It got too much for me in the end and I found another position.

Hard Deadline

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