• mathew (unregistered)

    I've had similar experiences.

    "Hi, there's a problem with some kind of web proxy you're running in front of our application. (Which, incidentally, we didn't ask you for and you didn't tell us about.)"

    "No, the problem is your application is crashing with an internal error."

    "Umm, well, the thing is, our application is written in language X and running on an application server of type X... and the 5xx error message on the web page is from language Y running on an application server of type Y. So even if our application is failing and reporting an error, your proxy isn't passing the error message through, it's just reporting an internal error in its own system. Our application cannot possibly be producing a type Y error."

    And after much argument, it turns out that the user is entering "not very many" in a field that expects a number, the application is issuing a somewhat informative error, and the proxy is somehow choking on the error and issuing a 5xx on an otherwise blank page.

  • "Paul" (unregistered) in reply to its me
    its me:

    Even the "single QA Engineer" that was let go, what did he do that was so bad? Unless he marked his tests as "passed" without actually performning them, several times over, I don't see how you could pin this kind of failure on a single person.... Clearly there's politics involved, but it sucks for that poor QA guy.... 

     Actually, that's a funny aspect of it.  There were a total of 2 QA guys let go due to this project, both managers.  The first was let go because he knew the system wasn't ready and refused to sign off on it.  The second was let go as the scapegoat; he came in, they told him to sign off, he signed off, it failed, they blamed him.

    The fault lies entirely with upper upper management who forced the release of a system that everyone knew wasn't ready.

  • (cs) in reply to Kiezkahse
    Anonymous:
    Making a .NET application throw a Java-style exception to avoid blame for shutting down the stock market then ditching out before the next version got pushed into production with code that nobody else in your organization can support?  Given yesterday's ranking-and-rating scale, I'd definitely peg that as a 4 - "Now That's a Neat Trick!"


    When you also take into consideration the 60% addition to the check AND the VPs niece, I'de rate it like this:
    5 - What The Fuck?!
  • drawkward (unregistered) in reply to Huxley

    War is peace

    Freedom is slavery

    Bugs are features

  • StupidPeopleTrick (unregistered)

    So they fire a QA engineer for a 3rd world architecture.  I FART in there general direction.

    - SPT

  • morry (unregistered) in reply to drawkward

    I am so stealing that.

  • morry (unregistered) in reply to drawkward
    Anonymous:

    War is peace

    Freedom is slavery

    Bugs are features



    I'm so stealing THAT.  Damn computers.
  • Who wants to know (unregistered) in reply to Pap

    The SAD ;part is that, at least if it is in the US, the "teachers union" and "school district" and "education community" will BACK that "teacher".  Someone should tell that "teacher" that they are NOT supposed to be a "teacher"(aka baby sitter), but a TEACHer (aka one that TEACHES)!  That ideal should also be conveyed to any of their supporters!

     Steve

  • (cs) in reply to "Paul"
    Anonymous:
    its me:

    Even the "single QA Engineer" that was let go, what did he do that was so bad? Unless he marked his tests as "passed" without actually performning them, several times over, I don't see how you could pin this kind of failure on a single person.... Clearly there's politics involved, but it sucks for that poor QA guy.... 

     Actually, that's a funny aspect of it.  There were a total of 2 QA guys let go due to this project, both managers.  The first was let go because he knew the system wasn't ready and refused to sign off on it.  The second was let go as the scapegoat; he came in, they told him to sign off, he signed off, it failed, they blamed him.

    The fault lies entirely with upper upper management who forced the release of a system that everyone knew wasn't ready.

    Aww, heck, it's only the largest financial market in the world, what's big deal ?!

    Gezz, I'm gonna invest in Pumpkins. The pumpkin market has been rising all season, and I have a feeling they'll top out right around January!  ;)

    -Me 

     

  • (cs) in reply to Who wants to know
    Someone calling itself 'Steve':

    The SAD ;part is that, at least if it is in the US, the "teachers union" and "school district" and "education community" will BACK that "teacher".  Someone should tell that "teacher" that they are NOT supposed to be a "teacher"(aka baby sitter), but a TEACHer (aka one that TEACHES)!  That ideal should also be conveyed to any of their supporters!

     Steve

    What are you smoking and where can I get some?  It must be wonderful to be so disconnected from reality.

    And no, I'm not saying that all teachers are perfect; like any profession, you'll see stellar examples alongside steaming piles of excrement.  However, at least in this part of the country, that teacher would not be backed by anyone.  (Presuming we're talking about elementary education, here.  Most post-secondary "educators" that I've had the misfortune of dealing with are even farther out of touch with reality than "Steve.").

    As for educators becoming baby-sitters, much of the blame for that falls on the parents and the administration, who frequently refuse to let teachers actually educate.  At least, that's how it is here in Kalilfornia.  YMWV. 

    </rant>
     

  • (cs) in reply to Pap

    I know its a stretch, but perhaps the pen is "blue" because in that context the color of the ink is more important than the exterior of the pen. Or maybe its "marketing".

     

    Pap:

    If that is real, perhaps the wisdom of adulthood and the financial stability of being a professional would permit one to hire a lawyer and see if something can be done to prevent this person from continuing in (or ever holding in the future ) a teaching position.

     

  • rob_squared (unregistered) in reply to Zac
    Anonymous:
    "This pen is red." "No it's not. It's blue."

    THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!

     

    Classic!

    For those of you who don't get the reference, too bad. :)
     

  • David (unregistered) in reply to rob_squared
    Anonymous:
    Classic!

    For those of you who don't get the reference, too bad. :)

    For those of you who don't get the reference, it takes about .09 seconds to google it.

  • (cs) in reply to Captcha

    Anonymous:
    If he's an even halfway decent programmer, they'll stop making him the scapegoat as soon as he proves himself.

    Hoo boy I wish that were the truth. It'd certainly be correct if people were always rational... unfortunately people tend to be human and choosing scapegoats tends to be based on panic rather than on clear, rational thought.

     

  • spoonchops (unregistered)

    The REAL moral of this story is never work for an in-law!

  • (cs)

    So let's summarize this job:

    - VP is future father in law. No pressure, and certainly no suspicion or resentment from coworkers.
    - Manager uses you as a pawn in internal politics.
    - Tech Lead is so worried about "fitting in" with upper management, he doesn't dare point out that a job candidate has the wrong skills.
    - Unspecified boss prohibits career growth into another language.
    - Same boss sets you up to "shake these [other coders] up." I'm sure that gets you a lot of friends.
    - VP turns on you and trys to get you fired.
    - VP fights with your boss, resulting in a breakup with your girlfriend.
    - Everyone from coworkers on up looks to make you the scapegoat for something you barely touched.
    - A corporate culture where those who warned of the impending failure get fired when, yes, the failure occurs.

    Sounds like an ideal workplace.

    --RA

     

  • (cs) in reply to Pap
  • (cs)
    Alex Papadimoulis:

    ...Paul tried to explain this again the Lead Java Engineer, saying that his portion isn't Java-based and doesn't throw Java exceptions. The Lead Java Engineer didn't buy it; it was escalated to the Line Manager....

    Here's the real WTF: If Paul was using .NET and C# then there had to be at least one Windows system and I can't believe a stock exchange would even consider letting such a beast near the computing center.
  • Miguel Farah (unregistered) in reply to morry

    <blockquote>

    <blockquote>

    War is peace

    Freedom is slavery

    Bugs are features

    </blockquote>

     I'm so stealing THAT.  Damn computers.

    </blockquote>

     

    Me too!

     

    Seriously, I've added this to my sigquote collection. 

     

     

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to rob_squared
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    "This pen is red." "No it's not. It's blue."

    THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!

     

    Classic!

    For those of you who don't get the reference, too bad. :)
     

     

    Classic? It's STTNG, not literature which, by the way, you should go read. 

  • (cs) in reply to triso

    You do know that NASDAQ uses Microsoft SQL Server 2005 and previously used SQL 2000 for part of their market data system. 

    http://members.microsoft.com/CustomerEvidence/Search/EvidenceDetails.aspx?EvidenceID=13793&LanguageID=1

  • Paul (unregistered) in reply to smbell

    I hope you're joking. 

    That, using C# and .NET, is not a WTF at all. It was (from what it sounds like):

    1) A completely seperate application, some kind of messaging system

    2) Passed with flying colors.

    3) Did not cause the problem. 

    Clearly neither the (non-Java) code nor the choice to use C#/.NET can be blaimed.

  • (cs) in reply to snow man
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:

    I think one of the WTFs is that a C# programmer wouldn't feel they could pick up Java in a heartbeat.

    (Sorry, Paul...I do feel for you anyway) 

    To Paul:

    Just curious: assuming you weren't mandated off of using Java, was it that you couldn't pick up Java at all, or (just guessing more likely) that you were concerned about picking up the usual subtle intricacies of a new language on a critical project?

    I know my first try at something new usually begets a retro look, and a "WTF was I thinking when I did that?"

    Slightly off topic, but I cringe every time I look at some of my old VB6 code (gimme a break I was like 13 at the time).

    Like my awesome functions "BoolToInt" and "IntToBool" which just converted 0 and 1 to true and false and vice versa...

    :)

  • (cs) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:
    "This pen is red." "No it's not. It's blue."

    THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!

     

    Classic!

    For those of you who don't get the reference, too bad. :)
     

     

    Classic? It's STTNG, not literature which, by the way, you should go read. 

    Wow... I didn't recognise it until you mentioned STTNG, now I remember exactly where it's from :D

    Yay for Brent Spiner! 

  • (cs) in reply to Kiezkahse

    Anonymous:
    Making a .NET application throw a Java-style exception to avoid blame for shutting down the stock market then ditching out before the next version got pushed into production with code that nobody else in your organization can support?  Given yesterday's ranking-and-rating scale, I'd definitely peg that as a 4 - "Now That's a Neat Trick!"

    In Java it's possible to provide a stack trace for an exception manually with setStackTrace. I wonder what kind of "neat tricks" could be done with that. It would be possible to make a base exception class, which forges the strack trace so that it will look like a .Net component threw it. :)

  • ajk (unregistered)

    namespace Java

    {

      namespace IO

      {

        // now this is good way to cover tracks in a mixed language project with c# :)
     

      } 

    }

  • X (unregistered) in reply to lankester

    I don't neccessarily agree with this at all, the app is clearly componentised so it shouldn't matter what language the parts are created using?

    What about maintainance by the team of Java devs I hear you say? Well.. What about it?.. its not as if C# is a fringe language these days, C# devs are a dime a dozen.

    I'm a firm believer in sticking to what you know and i don't think forcing him to write a project this size as his first big project in a new language can be justified no matter how you phrase it. 

  • BC (unregistered)

    Microsoft have a monopoly on package names with 'NET' in them!

  • Badger (unregistered) in reply to triso
    triso:
    Alex Papadimoulis:

    ...Paul tried to explain this again the Lead Java Engineer, saying that his portion isn't Java-based and doesn't throw Java exceptions. The Lead Java Engineer didn't buy it; it was escalated to the Line Manager....

    Here's the real WTF: If Paul was using .NET and C# then there had to be at least one Windows system and I can't believe a stock exchange would even consider letting such a beast near the computing center.

    The Lead Java Engineer! Is that you???

  • 4tehwin!!! (unregistered) in reply to its me
    its me:

    Aww, heck, it's only the largest financial market in the world, what's big deal ?!

    Gezz, I'm gonna invest in Pumpkins. The pumpkin market has been rising all season, and I have a feeling they'll top out right around January!  ;)

    -Me 

     even though 2 people have already won in this thread, you sir, also win for the simpsons reference....that apparently no-one else got.  good jorb.

  • (cs)

    And you thought VB was a bad language!

    It looks like Java is *really* bad.  Afterall, it shutdown an entire stock exchange!

    This is a financial application.  It should have been written in COBOL !!!

     

    <tongue in cheek> 

  • MurdocJ (unregistered) in reply to mathew
    Anonymous:

    I've had similar experiences.

    "Hi, there's a problem with some kind of web proxy you're running in front of our application. (Which, incidentally, we didn't ask you for and you didn't tell us about.)"

    "No, the problem is your application is crashing with an internal error."

    "Umm, well, the thing is, our application is written in language X and running on an application server of type X... and the 5xx error message on the web page is from language Y running on an application server of type Y. So even if our application is failing and reporting an error, your proxy isn't passing the error message through, it's just reporting an internal error in its own system. Our application cannot possibly be producing a type Y error."

    And after much argument, it turns out that the user is entering "not very many" in a field that expects a number, the application is issuing a somewhat informative error, and the proxy is somehow choking on the error and issuing a 5xx on an otherwise blank page.

     I had a similar similar experience... I had built some scripts around kermit (early PC terminal emulator / file transfer program) that we used.  Customer Service guy came up to ask me why an accounting report wasn't running properly.  By that logic, my couple of scripts were responsible for all bugs, anywhere in the system.  I managed to send the CS guy away.  What blew my mind was that he wasn't a newbie, he had been around for years, and if this bug had happened on a hardware terminal, he would have gone to the accounting programmer... but because it happened on a PC, he came to me.

  • anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Zac
    Anonymous:

    THERE ARE FOUR LIGHTS!!!

    Chain of Command II STTNG 

     

  • (cs) in reply to anonymous

    I think the major WTF was that they don't stress-test their test-system...

    I mean, our test-servers are always tested with twice the load that is expected in production, just to be sure... Certainly on a critical system like stock-exchange, this is a major wtf...

  • (cs) in reply to lankester

    lankester:
    I just don't understand why paul didn't learn java for this project.  Yep I understand it wasnt his fault for the bug ... but how hard it's to do like the other.

    I agree.  I'm a developer in a Microsoft / C# shop, but our executives and clients all carry Blackberries.  We lost both our BB developers recently and now an app needs corrections, so I'm studying Java and BB programming.  No big deal... halfway through the Java book and I have yet to find anything radically different from C#.  The namespaces aren't the same... whoop tee doo.

  • Usually silent observer (unregistered) in reply to Pap

    I hope Alex's mom flamed not only the teacher but the principal for that letter.  And there is no way I would have let him serve that detention!  Instead, make the teacher spend an hour in detention studying the metric system.

  • Gerald (unregistered) in reply to Usually silent observer

    Where is Paula Bean when we need her most?

  • Billy Oblivion (unregistered)
    Anonymous:

    Alas, yes this could be real.  It is not a new phenonmenon either.  My ex (who is 54) had something like this happen to him in Kindergarten.  He was a bright kid who was interested in astronomy, so when his teacher told the class that a day was 24 hours long, he piped up that actually it was 24 hours whaterver minutes and seconds.  He got into trouble.  I don't remember if the teacher sent a note home or sent him to the office or what, but I know my mother-in-law went down to the school and reamed the teacher out.

     

    When I was in first grade (in the 1970s) we took a math quiz which had a question something to the effect of:

     2

    -3

    __

     

    I of course answered:

    -1.

     

    I was marked wrong becase I  DIDN'T KNOW THAT YET.

     

    Thank you Ms. Duffy (I think I can name names cause the wench had one foot in the grave and one foot on the banna peal back then).  

  • rmg66 (unregistered) in reply to Usually silent observer

    Anonymous:
    I hope Alex's mom flamed not only the teacher but the principal for that letter.  And there is no way I would have let him serve that detention!  Instead, make the teacher spend an hour in detention studying the metric system.

    I suspect the detention was not for disagreeing, but for being rude or unruly.

    There's an appropriate way to disagree, especially with supervisor.

    Who knows, maybe the teacher was tying out some weird experiment, or maybe he was just a jerk.

     In either case, the student does not have the right to be disruptive in the class.

  • WTF Batman (unregistered) in reply to smbell
    smbell:

     Of course it sounds like this whole organization was more concerned about company politics than producing a solid product.  That's a WTF in itself.

     
    Welcome to Wall Street. Having worked here for several years, I can tell you that this is SOP. Come on in. the water's fine.

     captcha: batman  (WTF?)
     

  • The Captain Answers (unregistered)
    Alex Papadimoulis:
    Mr. Howell (as I'll call him) knew that Paul was a programmer. He also knew that his company employed programmers. He did the math and approached his soon-to-be Son-In-Law about working at his company.

    Mr Howell did the math:

     Son-in-law only does C# with 60% pay raise!  Mr Howell says, "Y'all stay 'way from them Java codes if u wanna get hitched, y'hear"

     Everyone else only does Java for same old pay. "Y'all keep doin' them Java codes, a'ight.  But stay 'way from them there See-pounds"

     One hangin' for an unfortunate QA tester.  "Zeek, go fetch me a rope!"

     Result:  Pert'near Priceless. 

     

  • Barnacle Wes (unregistered) in reply to Captcha

    Anonymous:
    I'm going to have to say that the real WTF is that he left a job paying 60% more than any other job he's had because of an error that wasn't even his fault.  If he's an even halfway decent programmer, they'll stop making him the scapegoat as soon as he proves himself.

     Don't be an idiot, of course he got another pay raise to leave.
     

  • (cs) in reply to shadowman
    shadowman:

    Pap:

    HAHAHAHA.  I'd love to see Mrs. _______ 's  response to that! 

    A search for the teachers name (Adam Hilliker) yields this as the first hit: 

    Adam Helfet-Hilliker is almost 30 years old, but to discern his behavioral age, one should divide his actual age by approximately three.

    :-)
     

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Samah
    Samah:

    Wow... I didn't recognise it until you mentioned STTNG, now I remember exactly where it's from :D

    Yay for Brent Spiner! 

     

    Saw him on an episode of Law & order the other night - he makes a great clueless intellectual dad.

     

    /enterprisey    

  • (cs) in reply to Hit

    An excellent WTF, despite the lack of code.

    Anonymous:
    It's always fun to have to talk to a manager like that.

    You could be holding a red pen and say:

    "This pen is red."
    "No it's not.  It's blue."
    "It's RED."
    "Blue.  Clearly, you do not communicate well.  And do not understand this business.  That pen is blue.  It's clear to everyone around here that indeed, it is BLUE."


    It deteriates from there...

    Ever read any of Zed Shaw's rants? Start here:

    I’m sure you’ve all thought about it at some point. “Imagine you’re on a planet where everyone was blind, and you’re the only one with sight. How would you describe the sunset?” It’s commonly something done as an exercise in high school and it’s retarded. If this planet were populated with programmers though it would be really interesting.

    Zed: Wow, the sunset here is a brilliant blue.
    Joe Programmer: No, you’re fucking wrong it’s red asshole.
    Zed: Uh, it’s blue. Guy with vision here. Remember?
    Frank Programmer: Yeah, it’s red man. You’re an idiot. See, I can hear the way it makes the air move so I know it looks red.
    It goes downhill (by which I mean: gets better) from there. 

     

  • (cs) in reply to 4tehwin!!!
    Anonymous:

     even though 2 people have already won in this thread, you sir, also win for the simpsons reference....that apparently no-one else got.  good jorb.

     Aha!! "Good Jorb"!!

    Coach Z from Homestar Runner!!

    Wow... the copyright infringements just keep a-flyin', don't they?

  • Narg (unregistered) in reply to Pap

    Can you provide a link to what ytmnd that is from?

  • (cs) in reply to Free
    Free:

    I know its a stretch, but perhaps the pen is "blue" because in that context the color of the ink is more important than the exterior of the pen. Or maybe its "marketing".

     

    Any marketer who tries to push a pen with blue ink and a red cap, the only stretching he needs to worry about is me shoving that pen up his ass.

     

    "Visible ink pen", brought up here a few weeks back, is almost as bad.  (The ink casing is transparent, so you can see how close you are to running out of ink just by looking at it.)

     

  • Afroblanco (unregistered)

    the "C# thing"

    Java and C# really aren't all that different.  I always thought that the two skills were pretty easily transferrable.

     I know that when I went from Java to C#, I had a pretty easy time of it.

  • (cs)

    Anonymous:
    But it's wrong. The mean solar day is exactly 24 hours long, with a deviation to both sides with up to about half a minute. (ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_day) He could have been talking about sidereal days (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sidereal_day), but those are shorter than 24 hours.

    Assuming we're using SI seconds, the mean solar day is not exactly 24 hours long. If it were, we wouldn't need leap seconds.

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