• SchizoDuckie (unregistered) in reply to Smash King

    It inverts your screen colors.

  • Piper (unregistered) in reply to Addison

    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

  • WhiskeyJack (unregistered)

    [ ] male [ ] female

    Error: You must select exactly 1 of these options.

  • Scott (unregistered) in reply to Vollhorst
    Vollhorst:
    Why not a simple machine where you put your "coin" into the slot you want to vote for. If someone is in doubt he can still recount the coins. Sure, you could relocate them (if you have access) but you can also forge paper votes.

    This would only work if you gave just one unique coin for the presidency. Usually your voting on other issues also. You'd have to have unique coins for each voting section as to avoid someone putting all the given coins in the same slot to cast many votes to the candidacy. Now assume you have unique coins like this. You'd have to train people which coin is for which voting section. Or just do a trial and error with coins but that would frustrate the voter. Coin voting wouldn't work.

  • Clark Kent (unregistered)

    What is"stationary rationing?" A limit on the amount of time you can spend standing still?

  • Jory (unregistered) in reply to Ed
    Ed:
    Azeroth:
    Cas:
    The other WTF being the lack of other-gendered options on that questionnaire. At the very least, intersex people have no way to complete it, and those other people on the trans/genderqueer spectrum who don't firmly lean one way or the other would also have varying levels of qualm in picking one of the two.

    Maybe a slider should be used?

    Male, Female, GenderNotFound.

    Male / Female / Perv

  • Cas (unregistered) in reply to nocturnal
    nocturnal:
    Cas:
    The other WTF being the lack of other-gendered options on that questionnaire. At the very least, intersex people have no way to complete it, and those other people on the trans/genderqueer spectrum who don't firmly lean one way or the other would also have varying levels of qualm in picking one of the two.

    Yeah. THAT's the WTF...

    Of course we can just add a "Neither" option, and that would solve the "problem".

    It sounds like you're being sarcastic, I'm not sure though. Anyway, actually, adding something like "N/A" on most forms would be acceptable to most transfolk! :)

  • Antti Penttala (unregistered)

    They have removed the Cancel button from Mobile Master since the the previous entry!

  • Anthocyanin (unregistered)

    For people complaining about Mark Miller's office-mate not locking their terminal. I'm assuming that said coworker was showing off his sign to Mark, and Mark said "hey, let me take a picture of that." Odds are, the coworker was nearby when the picture was taken.

  • LEGO (unregistered) in reply to ContraCorners
    ContraCorners:
    Vollhorst:
    Why not a simple machine where you put your "coin" into the slot you want to vote for. If someone is in doubt he can still recount the coins. Sure, you could relocate them (if you have access) but you can also forge paper votes.

    That's not a bad idea. There would have to be some very carefully enforced controls around the storage and movement of the coins during a recount. I mean, if a container of McBama coins got dropped or spilled or otherwise mixed with a container of O'Cain coins... there goes your recount, no?

    At least with paper there no way to accidentally change the vote. Poll workers could always "lose" paper, of course, but they could lose jars of coins to.

    You just need to have the coin acceptor modify the coin while the vote is being cast. Square punch for McBama, round punch for O'Cain. Then you could mix them all up and still do an automated recount, and you would be able to differentiate them from unused vote coins.

    --Lego

  • (cs)
    <insert generic comment about inflation>
  • fw (unregistered) in reply to memals

    The real WTF is that the missing person left his workstation unlocked. You can not believe the fun 'other' people have had with unlocked workstations around the office.

    Print screen, save as wallpaper, remove all icons. Change language/date/date format/default homepage/contents of startup folder. the is list is endless.

    • you forgot emailing a resignation letter to the boss...
  • BK (unregistered)

    What a great deal, but 1000 cartons and save a penny!!

  • (cs) in reply to Piper
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    Okay, I was going to argue with you, but decided to do some research first. Several hours later, I'm back, and darn it if it isn't so:

    http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html

    That, plus the refutations, plus the comment sections-- I think I'll buy some Advil on the way home.

  • ...toddy (unregistered) in reply to Piper
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

  • (cs) in reply to Dave
    Dave:
    It's stationery!

    And it's not moving, either.

  • TekniCal (unregistered) in reply to ...toddy
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    Sorry ...toddy. I have to agree with Piper. Numerically, (Zero-Point-Nine repeating) is entirely indistinguishable from (One). If two numbers differ by an INFINITELY SMALL amount, they don't actually differ at all.

    If somebody claims that 'nine nines' (0.999999999) equals one, I'll disagree with them. But if they say 'point-nine-repeating' equals one, it can brook no argument.

  • Guesser (unregistered) in reply to TekniCal
    TekniCal:
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    <snip>

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    Sorry ...toddy. I have to agree with Piper. Numerically, (Zero-Point-Nine repeating) is entirely indistinguishable from (One). If two numbers differ by an INFINITELY SMALL amount, they don't actually differ at all.

    If somebody claims that 'nine nines' (0.999999999) equals one, I'll disagree with them. But if they say 'point-nine-repeating' equals one, it can brook no argument.

    that 'proof' at the top is wrong, but if you do it properly with a series with limits tending to infinity, then yes 0.9 recurring is 1 it's all fairly meaningless cause infinity doesn't really exist, it all comes down to what you define recurring to mean, and what limits you use with your functions etc.

    (I am not a mathematician, but I've been shown the proof by someone who lectures maths... so meh)

  • Jay (unregistered)

    Gas stations in America routinely put three digits after the decimal place in the price of a gallon of gas, like "$2.399 per gallon", despite the fact that our smallest unit of currency only goes to two digits. Perhaps they're just carrying this philosophy over into cigarettes.

    I presume this is to fool people into thinking that the price is cheaper than it really is. Someday I'd like to do a study -- maybe I can get a big government grant for this -- to see if people are really more likely to buy a product that costs $9.99 than one that costs $10.00. Are there really people who say, "Ten dollars! That's too much. But $9.99, oh, that's a reasonable price"? Personally, whenever I see a price like $9.99 I automatically say to myself, "Ten dollars".

    I was in a department store once and saw a product advertised as "On sale: only $99.99! Regular price: $109.99." And I thought, yeah, right. I don't believe any store in America sets the regular price of any product at $109.99. That would violate the price point taboo.

  • Mark Johansen (unregistered) in reply to Walleye
    Walleye:
    Thank you Mark Johansen, for the Irish girl!

    You're welcome! Did you notice that the ad was for my book ("A Sane Approach to Database Design"), or were you just looking at the girl?

    Hey, I just noticed, by an interesting coincidence, the thread is called "not quite $30" and that's the price of my book on Amazon, sort of.

  • (cs) in reply to ...toddy
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    There is no end, that's the point.

    proof:

    1/3 = .333 repeating. 3 x 1/3 = 1 3 x .333 repeating = .999 repeating. ergo, .999 repeating = 1

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to ...toddy
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    I must disagree. The proof is valid. He doesn't say "A really long string of nines", he said "An infinite number of nines."

    So 25.999... times 10 = 259.999... There are just as many nines after the 259 as there are after the 25. Thus when you subtract, the nines cancel out completely, and you are left with 259-25=234. Exactly 234, nothing after the decimal.

    I'm also curious about the statement made in another post that "infinity doesn't exist". Of course it does. It's a very useful concept in mathematics. If you have difficulty in comprehending it, that's too bad, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I have difficulty comprehending Democrats, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. It is surely true that there is no physical object on earth of which an infinite number exist, i.e. there are not an infinite number of marbles or grains of sand or even of atoms. But just because infinity is not useful for counting discrete objects doesn't mean it doesn't exist. The number 1/2 is not useful for counting discrete objects either: if I break a rock in half, I have two smaller rocks, not 1/2 a rock and 1/2 a rock. But it is a very meaningful concept for measuring: I can certainly walk 1/2 a mile or drink 1/2 a liter of water.

  • (cs)

    Also: 1/3 = 0.333... 2/3 = 0.666...

    1/3 + 2/3 = 1

    Therefor:

    0.333... + 0.666... = 1

    And thus

    0.999... = 1

    Believe me, I was in the "that's some 1=2 misunderstanding bullshit" camp until reading up on it (on the site I linked to earlier).

    What it comes down is this: 0.999... isn't the same as 0.999...[insert a crapton of 9s]...90. Instead, 0.999... is just an abstract way of us decimal using humans to represent a concept, and that concept happens to be "1".

    Try this:

    0.999... is an infinitely small decimal step "before" 1. Thus it is 1/N, where N is infinity. The limit of 1/N = 0. So:

    0.999... + 1/N = 1, where 1/N = 0. 0.999... + 0 = 1 0.999... = 1

  • Smart Shopper (unregistered)

    There's nothing odd about the $25.99999 price. They're just telling you that if you buy 1000 cartons you get a $0.01 price break on the thousandth one. Now that's value!

    Much better math than the Daily WTF editors who titled this thread Not Quite $30 when the amount in question is not quite $26. WTF?

  • notJoeKing (unregistered) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    Gas stations in America routinely put three digits after the decimal place in the price of a gallon of gas, like "$2.399 per gallon", despite the fact that our smallest unit of currency only goes to two digits. Perhaps they're just carrying this philosophy over into cigarettes.

    I presume this is to fool people into thinking that the price is cheaper than it really is. Someday I'd like to do a study -- maybe I can get a big government grant for this -- to see if people are really more likely to buy a product that costs $9.99 than one that costs $10.00. Are there really people who say, "Ten dollars! That's too much. But $9.99, oh, that's a reasonable price"? Personally, whenever I see a price like $9.99 I automatically say to myself, "Ten dollars".

    I was in a department store once and saw a product advertised as "On sale: only $99.99! Regular price: $109.99." And I thought, yeah, right. I don't believe any store in America sets the regular price of any product at $109.99. That would violate the price point taboo.

    Actually the studies have already occurred and the results were that most men saw $9.99 as $10 but most women saw $9.99 as "only $9". Guess which gender does the vast majority of purchasing. Now guess why prices are listed that way.

  • james Wilson (unregistered)

    LOL, I think its closer to $26 not $30. LOL, pretty funny nonetheless.

    www.anolite.echoz.com

  • (cs)

    I knew this post would be here before I even started reading.... Isn't this meme getting a little old?

  • (cs)

    And if a sex selection with "Male", "Female", "Other" would occur in some application, it would also be posted on here. Ugh, the injustice.

  • (cs) in reply to ...toddy
    ...toddy:
    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the recurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26
    Assuming you are not a troll, describe a number that appears between 0.999... and 1. Ie. what number is slightly more than 0.999... and less than 1? Keep in mind there must be an infinite amount to choose from if 0.999... != 1.
  • noryb (unregistered)

    Isn't it possible that the tobacco tax in that locality is some non-whole number of cents?

    Gasoline is always taxed 0.9 cents, for one thing...

  • (cs) in reply to Azeroth
    Azeroth:
    Cas:
    The other WTF being the lack of other-gendered options on that questionnaire. At the very least, intersex people have no way to complete it, and those other people on the trans/genderqueer spectrum who don't firmly lean one way or the other would also have varying levels of qualm in picking one of the two.

    Maybe a slider should be used?

    Not quite a slider. There are people whose 23rd choromosome is XXY. There are other variations, and they do not fit neatly on a sliding scale!

    And "queer" is a sexual preference, not a gender. I should know, since I'm queer. And male. Trans, on the other hand, requires a different choice.

    At least, an "other" box should be allowed.

    HOWEVER, the "gender" question should NOT be asked in surveys like this! Just omit the question. Who needs to know what gender(s) you are? No one but your doctor and endocrinologist have any need for this information.

    Random Web sites can do quite nicely by deleting this question completely. Anyone who designs Web page surveys, please encourage your bosses to omit this question. It is rarely relevant.

  • Daniel (unregistered)

    Has anyone else noticed that even if rounded, it still wouldn't be $30? Shouldn't the headline be "Not Quite $26"?

  • Joops (unregistered) in reply to halcyon1234
    halcyon1234:
    Also: 1/3 = 0.333... 2/3 = 0.666...

    1/3 + 2/3 = 1

    Therefor:

    0.333... + 0.666... = 1

    And thus

    0.999... = 1

    Believe me, I was in the "that's some 1=2 misunderstanding bullshit" camp until reading up on it (on the site I linked to earlier).

    What it comes down is this: 0.999... isn't the same as 0.999...[insert a crapton of 9s]...90. Instead, 0.999... is just an abstract way of us decimal using humans to represent a concept, and that concept happens to be "1".

    Try this:

    0.999... is an infinitely small decimal step "before" 1. Thus it is 1/N, where N is infinity. The limit of 1/N = 0. So:

    0.999... + 1/N = 1, where 1/N = 0. 0.999... + 0 = 1 0.999... = 1

    Yet another .99999(recurring) == 1 proof -> take the average of 1 and .999999(recurring).

    Keep in mind if the average of a and b equals a or b, then a MUST = b.....

  • an odd person (unregistered) in reply to Smash King

    it inverts the screen colors i.e. white to black, red to cyan etc

    oddly enough: written on a mac, with this feature turned on, i find web-pages easier to read this way.

  • an odd person (unregistered) in reply to an odd person

    Above post was ment to be to somebody asking what ctrl+option+cmd+8 does on a mac (ctrl+alt+win key+8 for non-mac 'boards)

  • Mr.'; Drop Database -- (unregistered) in reply to jordanwb
    jordanwb:
    SchizoDuckie:
    JD:
    Shouldn't that be a 403 forbidden?
    I vote 302 - Moved temporarily
    I vote for 410 - Gone - or - 503 - Service Unavailable
    Other possibilities: 303 See Other 305 Use Proxy 402 Payment Required 409 Conflict 413 Request Entity Too Large
  • tbrown (unregistered) in reply to jordanwb
    jordanwb:
    SchizoDuckie:
    JD:
    Shouldn't that be a 403 forbidden?

    I vote 302 - Moved temporarily

    I vote for 410 - Gone

    • or - 503 - Service Unavailable

    Too high level, go for 10065 - Host Unreachable

  • Oh Canada (unregistered) in reply to ContraCorners
    ContraCorners:
    Vollhorst:
    Why not a simple machine where you put your "coin" into the slot you want to vote for. If someone is in doubt he can still recount the coins. Sure, you could relocate them (if you have access) but you can also forge paper votes.

    That's not a bad idea. There would have to be some very carefully enforced controls around the storage and movement of the coins during a recount. I mean, if a container of McBama coins got dropped or spilled or otherwise mixed with a container of O'Cain coins... there goes your recount, no?

    At least with paper there no way to accidentally change the vote. Poll workers could always "lose" paper, of course, but they could lose jars of coins to.

    For over a 100 years Canada has been using the tried and true method known as the Pinecone/Birch Bark method.

    As most of you know Canada is a vast land of forest and ice. As such, we have an abundance of both pinecones and birch bark. In an election year the Canadian Society of Environmental Elections spans out across our great nation collecting enough pinecones and birch bark so that each Canadian voter can have one piece each. On voting day we present ourselves to our designated polling station and if we are voting for the incumbent we place a pinecone in the box, if we want the opposition we throw in the birch bark.

  • Math is hard (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3rsBottom
    TopCod3rsBottom:
    ...toddy:
    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the recurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26
    Assuming you are not a troll, describe a number that appears between 0.999... and 1. Ie. what number is slightly more than 0.999... and less than 1? Keep in mind there must be an infinite amount to choose from if 0.999... != 1.

    In practice, it always shakes out that way, but in theory, the distinction is useful.

    In the same way, when doing calculus, [n]/Infinity == 0, but in logic, [n]/Infinity == [n] Infinitieths. The concept is useful for triggering a buy reflex in inattentive customers, starting flamewars, or otherwise speculating on the nature of multiples of Infinity. Why do they call 'em fingers, anyway? i ain't never seen em fing. Whope! Dere dey go!

  • google ftw! (unregistered) in reply to tbrown
    tbrown:
    jordanwb:
    SchizoDuckie:
    JD:
    Shouldn't that be a 403 forbidden?

    I vote 302 - Moved temporarily

    I vote for 410 - Gone

    • or - 503 - Service Unavailable

    Too high level, go for 10065 - Host Unreachable

    shrug

    404 seems appropriate to me. from wikipedia:

    404 Not Found
    The requested resource could not be found but may be available again in the future. Subsequent requests by the client are permissible.

  • :) (unregistered)

    The RWTF is that advertising Cigarettes is still legal in the US.

    I Australia, this is completely illegal, shops aren't even allowed to have them on display anymore, they have to be tucked away under a counter or somthing like that.

  • convicted felon (unregistered)

    As a professional mathematician, I am saddened by this site's readers' poor grasp of middle school mathematics.

    The .999... = 1 arguments presented here are fallacious. Screwy things, like contradictions, can happen if you use that kind of reasoning, at least without paying particular and close attention to the fact that a number can have multiple distinct decimal expansions.

    Sequences and limits do not suffer this -- indeed, they embody the idea.

    Put simply, .999... is (by definition) the sequence {.9, .99, .999, ...} whose nth term has n decimal places, each filled with a nine. The sequence .999... is equal to 1 because for ANY positive number "epsilon", no matter how small, you can find an n such that the difference between {.999...}_n (the nth term of the sequence) and 1 is less than "epsilon". That means that the difference between .999... and 1 is less than EVERY positive number. There is only ONE number for which that is true: 0. That is to say, their difference is 0.

  • The Tingler (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59
    DWalker59:
    Azeroth:
    Cas:
    The other WTF being the lack of other-gendered options on that questionnaire. At the very least, intersex people have no way to complete it, and those other people on the trans/genderqueer spectrum who don't firmly lean one way or the other would also have varying levels of qualm in picking one of the two.

    Maybe a slider should be used?

    Not quite a slider. There are people whose 23rd choromosome is XXY. There are other variations, and they do not fit neatly on a sliding scale!

    And "queer" is a sexual preference, not a gender. I should know, since I'm queer. And male. Trans, on the other hand, requires a different choice.

    At least, an "other" box should be allowed.

    HOWEVER, the "gender" question should NOT be asked in surveys like this! Just omit the question. Who needs to know what gender(s) you are? No one but your doctor and endocrinologist have any need for this information.

    Random Web sites can do quite nicely by deleting this question completely. Anyone who designs Web page surveys, please encourage your bosses to omit this question. It is rarely relevant.

    If we don't ask the gender question, how do we know to whom to market tampons vs mustache groomers?

    On another topic, FWIW, maybe the spammers got in here because of all the "My captcha is X" posts. There are only 10 and they get recycled.

  • Your Name (unregistered) in reply to The Tingler
    The Tingler:
    DWalker59:
    Azeroth:
    Cas:
    The other WTF being the lack of other-gendered options on that questionnaire. At the very least, intersex people have no way to complete it, and those other people on the trans/genderqueer spectrum who don't firmly lean one way or the other would also have varying levels of qualm in picking one of the two.

    Maybe a slider should be used?

    Not quite a slider. There are people whose 23rd choromosome is XXY. There are other variations, and they do not fit neatly on a sliding scale!

    And "queer" is a sexual preference, not a gender. I should know, since I'm queer. And male. Trans, on the other hand, requires a different choice.

    At least, an "other" box should be allowed.

    HOWEVER, the "gender" question should NOT be asked in surveys like this! Just omit the question. Who needs to know what gender(s) you are? No one but your doctor and endocrinologist have any need for this information.

    Random Web sites can do quite nicely by deleting this question completely. Anyone who designs Web page surveys, please encourage your bosses to omit this question. It is rarely relevant.

    If we don't ask the gender question, how do we know to whom to market tampons vs mustache groomers?

    On another topic, FWIW, maybe the spammers got in here because of all the "My captcha is X" posts. There are only 10 and they get recycled.

    Good Point!

    captcha: X

  • Nate (unregistered) in reply to Scott
    Scott:
    Vollhorst:
    Why not a simple machine where you put your "coin" into the slot you want to vote for. If someone is in doubt he can still recount the coins. Sure, you could relocate them (if you have access) but you can also forge paper votes.

    This would only work if you gave just one unique coin for the presidency. Usually your voting on other issues also. You'd have to have unique coins for each voting section as to avoid someone putting all the given coins in the same slot to cast many votes to the candidacy. Now assume you have unique coins like this. You'd have to train people which coin is for which voting section. Or just do a trial and error with coins but that would frustrate the voter. Coin voting wouldn't work.

    Indeed. Today I voted for (IIRC) candidates for 12 different offices, and 16 yes/no propositions. (California.) That could complicate this machine.

    Also, the machine better have a lot of slots. In 2003 we had a special gubernatorial recall election in which 135 (not a typo) candidates were on the ballot.

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to ...toddy
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    There is no end to recurring zeros, there's infinitely many of them. We agreed to truncate infinite strings of zeros on either end of a number written out in decimal notation.

    Your logic is "baffled", that's the end of it. If you insist 0.99999.... or 0.9bar is different that 1, then just tell me where on the number line to put it (other than where 1 is).

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to TekniCal
    TekniCal:
    ...toddy:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    It's easily proved if you don't believe me:

    Let x = 25.999.... Then 10x = 259.999....

    Subtract x from 10x. 10x = 259.999.... x = 25.999.... 9x = 234.000....

    Divide by 9: Then x = 26.000....

    Q.E.D.

    not quite, but good effort. At the end of the reccurring 0s, there will be a 1. I know it baffles logic, but it's there. 26.000<snip>0001 != 26

    Sorry ...toddy. I have to agree with Piper. Numerically, (Zero-Point-Nine repeating) is entirely indistinguishable from (One). If two numbers differ by an INFINITELY SMALL amount, they don't actually differ at all.

    If somebody claims that 'nine nines' (0.999999999) equals one, I'll disagree with them. But if they say 'point-nine-repeating' equals one, it can brook no argument.

    The distance between 0.9999... and 1 on the number axis is not infinitely small: it's zero.

    You argue a valid case, but your argument is wrong! 0.9999... doesn't differ from 1 by any amount (not even an infinitely small one). The whole 0.9999... non-problem is a corner case of positional notation. 0.9999... is a way to write out number 1 in decimal positional notation. Just like 0.111111... is a way to write out number 1 in binary notation. Remember that notation like 0.999... represents a particular number: it doesn't change, it doesn't get "closer" to anything: it's just one number, and it has to be the number 1.

    People routinely confuse the concept of a number on a number line, and particular notation of it. We're so bound to representations that our thinking gets skewed because of it. Numbers are orthogonal to their notation: they are separate concepts, and you can discuss numbers (as number theoretists do) without being necessarily bound to any particular notation at all.

  • Uhh (unregistered)

    The first picture brings a whole new meaning to five-nines quality!

  • (cs) in reply to halcyon1234
    halcyon1234:
    Piper:
    Interestingly, $25.99999... is not just very close to $26, but actually exactly equal to $26 (assuming the 9's do continue forever.) It's a weird property of the decimal notation.

    Okay, I was going to argue with you, but decided to do some research first. Several hours later, I'm back, and darn it if it isn't so:

    http://polymathematics.typepad.com/polymath/2006/06/no_im_sorry_it_.html

    That, plus the refutations, plus the comment sections-- I think I'll buy some Advil on the way home.

    So, you thought Piper was wrong, but instead of bitching what a dumbass (s)he is, you actually did some research and allowed yourself to be convinced by arguments that Piper is actually right and your initial opinion/belief was wrong?

    Hats off to you, you are admirable.

  • (cs) in reply to convicted felon
    convicted felon:
    Put simply, .999... is (by definition) the sequence {.9, .99, .999, ...} whose nth term has n decimal places, each filled with a nine. The sequence .999... is equal to 1 because for ANY positive number "epsilon", no matter how small, you can find an n such that the difference between {.999...}_n (the nth term of the sequence) and 1 is less than "epsilon". That means that the difference between .999... and 1 is less than EVERY positive number. There is only ONE number for which that is true: 0. That is to say, their difference is 0.
    Sorry to nitpick, but 0.9999... is not the sequence {0.9, 0.99, 0.999, ... }, but the limit of that sequence, which of course is exactly 1.

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