• UncleDavid (unregistered)

    The real WTF is that we're expected a movie where the agents manage to indict a launderer. What did he do, return the shirts with creases down the front?

  • Josh (unregistered) in reply to NaN

    So you mean I have a life and you don't?

  • rd (unregistered)

    WTF are all these comments about? I don't get it. What's the real WTF?

  • Lady Nocturne (unregistered) in reply to Flash

    I just signed a Verizon Wireless contract, so I'm really getting a kick out of...

    Wait, wrong website. Anyway, I just got a Verizon Wireless account on Monday, and while I signed up over the phone, they made me go to their website and read their customer agreement (right on their main page at the bottom under "customer agreement", and I had to tell them that I'd read it. Then I had to review the terms of my plan and approve those as well. THEN I "signed" the contract (since it was over the phone, I just did this by giving them my SSN for a credit check.)

  • Lady Nocturne (unregistered) in reply to Flash

    Whoops, forgot to quote.

    [quote user="Flash"][quote user="ParkinT"]Just try to get a look at any Verizon contract before you sign up. They won't let you see the contract until after you agree to take the service.[/quote]

    I just got a Verizon Wireless account on Monday, and while I signed up over the phone, they made me go to their website and read their customer agreement (right on their main page at the bottom under "customer agreement", and I had to tell them that I'd read it. Then I had to review the terms of my plan and approve those as well. THEN I "signed" the contract (since it was over the phone, I just did this by giving them my SSN for a credit check.)

  • Jasmine (unregistered)

    Funny :)

    I'm especially amused by the fact that the description of the film completely gives away the twist.

    I used to work for the company that does Verizon bills, so that one is pretty funny to me too - I know exactly how that happened, and it happens to a few bills on almost every run, but usually they catch it before the bill is actually sent.

  • Bodero (unregistered) in reply to Jasmine
    Jasmine:
    I used to work for the company that does Verizon bills, so that one is pretty funny to me too - I know exactly how that happened, and it happens to a few bills on almost every run, but usually they catch it before the bill is actually sent.

    Great! Can you explain it to the rest of us then?

  • Dan (unregistered)

    I wonder if we can make a screen saver of this stuff. That way our co-workers can enjoy this stuff while I'm away from my desk.

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to Jeff Rife
    Jeff Rife:
    Ken B:
    Before switching to Verizon FiOS internet, which they were offering for a discount if you bundled it Verizon long distance, I called their sales line and asked flat out "what will the monthly bill be". The sales rep typed something into her computer and she gave me an actual "your monthly bill would be" answer.
    Unless it's different where you live, the reason the FIOS quote was easy is that what they quote is what you pay.

    The first ads I saw for the service I have (Business FIOS with 5 static IPs) quoted $99/month, and that was exactly what my bill was. I increased the speed recently and their ads, web page, and CSR all said $139/month, and that's the exact bill.

    There may be taxes, fees, etc., as part of that bill, but it's not itemized out like the "CEO needs a new pair of shoes" fees on cell phone and cable bills.

    Well, in this case, we were also switching to Verizon long distance, so all of the associated fees/taxes with that come along.

    Also, the company I work for is paying for it, so I needed to get an actual quote of phone+internet to compare to the previous plan, in order to get approval.

    It may be that the Internet service price is exactly as quoted, but when combined with the long distance part, it's not.

  • Ben (unregistered) in reply to Flash
    Flash:
    Jim:
    Flash:
    Just try to get a look at any Verizon contract before you sign up. They won't let you see the contract until after you agree to take the service.

    You have to sign it, smart guy.

    Nope. You don't sign it. You just get it. And you've likely dropped your previous service in anticipation of the new service. Only then do you notice the fees it'll take to drop the new service if you object to the hidden charges. Even if you can convince them that you shouldn't have to pay the $149-$199 cancelation fee, you still have to go through the trouble/expense to renew your old service.

    The fair thing would be to tell you what it costs up front. Showing you the contract in advance accomplishes that function very nicely.

    What are you talking about? When I signed up w/ Verizon Wireless I had to sign a contract they printed out from the cash register. Presumably if I had refused to sign it, they would not have given me the phone or ported my numbers. When I amended the contract over the phone, I had to listen to the sales rep rattle it off and respond "yes" to indicate my agreement.

    If either party is not aware of the terms of a contract, it is by definition not a contract.

    Also, since at least Cingular and Verizon (and probably Sprint and T-Mobile) allow you to cancel a new contract within the first 30 days for a full refund, one can certainly do that if they find the regulatory recovery fees, taxes, etc to be excessive. Nearly every recurring bill I receive has that little bit extra bolted on (Vonage, insurance, cable, etc). Then there are airline tickets that always include substantial fees that were not part of the advertised price. And, have you ever bought a car? I am not saying these are not annoying, but they are rarely surprises or violations of laws or contracts.

  • Bodero (unregistered)

    My Verizon Wireless Fees:

    Bill Cycle: April 24th - May 23, 2008 Total Due: $129.01

    Verizon Wireless Surcharges and Other Charges and Credits: Fed. Universal Service Charge: $1.47 Regulatory Charge: $0.07 Administrative Charge: $0.85 Gross Receipts Surcharge: $2.14 Total Verizon Other Charges: $4.53 Taxes, Governmental Surcharges and Fees: NY State E911 Fee: $1.20 ***** County 911 Surcharge: $0.30 NY State Sales Tax: $3.21 ***** County Sales Tax: $3.00 Total NYS Taxes and Fees: $7.71

    So Verizon charges me four and a half bucks in fees. The state of NY charges me almost double that! I'd say that's the real outrage.

  • Bodero (unregistered)

    TRWTF is html tags, etc...

  • (cs) in reply to Ben
    Ben:
    When I signed up w/ Verizon Wireless I had to sign a contract they printed out from the cash register.
    That's good news. But I've been quoted the wrong prices by Verizon folks, and there's no recourse. The problem could have been averted by just showing me the contract. Knowing exactly how much a service will cost is a basic part of a business transaction. How can one comparison shop when you don't know the terms until you're at the register and a lengthy contract is in front of you and the clerk is handing you a pen? You can't.* And that seems to be Verizon's plan.
    • Or maybe you can. When the contract is printed out, take it, don't sign it, then go comparison shopping.
  • (cs)

    The real WTF is that everybody is trying to find the WTF in the Verizon bill. It was clearly a joke by Alex. I'm sure he threw it in there just to see how sharp we all were and what we would pick apart about it. Good job Alex.

  • (cs)

    The scale of 1052-1057 would make sense if it was 1056-1061, because then it could be part of a hand-rolled 2 byte bit-field, with a small screw-up leading to the display of the actual values to be bitwise-or'ed with the rest, but these values make no sense at all. Of course, such an arrangement as I just described would be somewhat of a WTF itself, but at least you could see the tortured logic behind it.

  • ping floyd (unregistered) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    As far as Verizon billing goes (and any other service provider I've ever worked with), if you ask them "How much will I be billed for this service?" the representative you speak will should be able to very accurately tell you exactly how much will show up on your bill (excluding overage) every month. Most people just ask "How much does this cost?" to which they usually reply the advertised price.

    Actually, I've asked an AT&T Rep how much my monthly bill would be and they could not for the life of me give me a straight answer.

    They promised and promised that the fees would "not be over 10 dollars" but I wanted an exact amount and they kept repeating the 10 dollar thing time and time again.

    I once had a phone that AT&T told me would work in a particular city which I visited quite frequently. Of course, it didn't work at all - they had no coverage there and they knew it. Never, I repeat, NEVER trust AT&T.

    And regarding your "no more than 10 dollar fee," I think that's double-speak for "the fee is $10!"

  • Daniel Migowski (unregistered)

    Most of the problems with the zeros seem to be from floating point calculation and comparison errors.

    You should never decide like this:

    if a - b > 0 then

    but

    if a - b > 0.000001 then

    to be aware of floating point rounding errors.

  • MHolt (unregistered)

    What i really don't get here is how you americans can accept the cell phone companies.

    1. They lock you to a specific phone, and then you get the "right to upgrade"
    2. No SIM cards... WTF?
    3. Branded phones
    4. Phones are vendor locked in
    5. Prices are quoted as one, but then all kinds of fees are added.

    (I might of course be wrong, but that's at least how i understood it) Compared to here in Denmark

    1. The phone is yours, you can do with it what you want. Yes they will use a SIM lock, so you can only use their SIM-cards, but that can be unlocked.
    2. SIM cards... YAY
    3. Only branded if you buy it from 3 (The first 3G phone company in DK)
    4. See 1
    5. Prices are quoted as is. No extra fees or anything. Take my current plan e.g. Price/sec: 0.01kr Text msg: 0.10kr GPRS data: 1kr/mb MMS msg: 1.50kr

    Now that's easy to understand

  • (cs)

    That Verizon bill is really bugging me. I don't know what's wrong with it.

  • (cs) in reply to MHolt
    MHolt:
    What i really don't get here is how you americans can accept the cell phone companies. 1. They lock you to a specific phone, and then you get the "right to upgrade" 2. No SIM cards... WTF? 3. Branded phones 4. Phones are vendor locked in 5. Prices are quoted as one, but then all kinds of fees are added.

    FWIW, AT&T and T-Mobile USA are GSM/UMTS carriers, so their phones do have SIM cards. Verizon and Sprint are CDMA carriers, so their phones don't have SIM cards.

  • jcs (unregistered) in reply to MHolt

    MHolt: The real WTF is that you're paying so much for your cell service. After converting the currency, you're paying over USD$0.124 a minute, which is more expensive than every cell plan I've had, even after taxes. (Also remember that most US cell plans allow for free calling on weekends.)

  • (cs) in reply to jcs
    jcs:
    MHolt: The real WTF is that you're paying so much for your cell service. After converting the currency, you're paying over USD$0.124 a minute, which is more expensive than every cell plan I've had, even after taxes. (Also remember that most US cell plans allow for free calling on weekends.)

    That's nothing. I pay NZD$0.80 per minute. That's about USD$0.60 a minute.

  • Jay (unregistered)

    I got a call from a bank about a year ago trying to get me to refinance my mortgage with them. They told me their rates and fees over the phone, and it sounded like a good deal. From that point the conversation went something like this:

    Me: "Sounds good. Send me the numbers in writing and I'll probably sign up."

    Bank guy: "Well, we'll send you the paperwork once you apply. If you'll just give me your credit card number for the application fee ..."

    Me: "No, I need to see it on paper before I commit."

    Bank guy: "You wouldn't be committing. If you apply and then after you see the contract you don't like it, you can always cancel."

    Me: "And get the application fee back?"

    Bank guy: "Noooo..... The application fee is non-refundable."

    Me: "I'd really need to see this on paper so I make sure I understand the numbers before I give you a credit card number."

    Bank guy: "We can't send you a contract until after you've paid the application fee."

    Me: "So you're telling me you won't let me see the contract until after I agree to it?"

    Bank guy: "Hey, I have over 100,000 records on my database!"

    Me: "You know, there have been plenty of times when I have signed a contract without reading it because I was in a hurry or just got lazy. But I have never signed a contract without reading it because the seller told me that he refused to let me see it until I signed."

    Hang up.

  • (cs) in reply to Flash
    Flash:
    ParkinT:
    If you read all of the 'fine print' on the Verizon Bill, they have the right to pass on to you their COSTs OF DOING BUSINESS!
    I heard someone describe Verizon's scam this way: You take a $10 item to a store checkout. In NJ, for example, you expect the clerk to add the 7% sales tax for a total of $10.70. But in the Verizon store, Verizon will then charge more fees to "defray" the cost of charging you the sales tax.

    In short, this allows Verizon Wireless to claim that a plan will cost you $39.99 per month. But when you get your bill, it really costs $41.57. This allows them to fool you while you're comparing their plans with other carriers.

    Just try to get a look at any Verizon contract before you sign up. They won't let you see the contract until after you agree to take the service.

    TRWTF is that the taxes are not included in the price.

  • Anonymous Cow-herd (unregistered) in reply to Ben
    Ben:
    What are you talking about? When I signed up w/ Verizon Wireless I had to sign a contract they printed out from the cash register. Presumably if I had refused to sign it, they would not have given me the phone or ported my numbers. When I amended the contract over the phone, I had to listen to the sales rep rattle it off and respond "yes" to indicate my agreement.

    If either party is not aware of the terms of a contract, it is by definition not a contract.

    Don't confuse the two independent parts of "agreeing" and "knowing the terms".

    You don't have to physically sign a bit of paper to agree to a contract. If you say "Yes please" and then start using the service they provide, then you've got a contract.

    This and the fact that you can't be held to terms you aren't aware of are mutually independent. So you can be bound to the important part of the agreement (you give me phone service, I pay you) and not all the nonsense that goes with it.

    Under the terms of use of this site, this would be TRWTF if not for the fact that you weren't aware of it. Or something(TM).

    Is the WTF that having paid the previous month's bill, they didn't bill him for anything in that month?

  • MHolt (unregistered) in reply to jcs
    jcs:
    MHolt: The real WTF is that you're paying so much for your cell service. After converting the currency, you're paying over USD$0.124 a minute, which is more expensive than every cell plan I've had, even after taxes. (Also remember that most US cell plans allow for free calling on weekends.)
    But then i suppose you pay a monthly fee as well? Plus a fee for dialing. I don't. That's the prices... That's it. I didn't say it was cheaper, (it's the cheapest in DK though), but it's way easier to understand :)
  • (cs) in reply to MHolt
    MHolt:
    What i really don't get here is how you americans can accept the cell phone companies. 1. They lock you to a specific phone, and then you get the "right to upgrade" 2. No SIM cards... WTF? 3. Branded phones 4. Phones are vendor locked in 5. Prices are quoted as one, but then all kinds of fees are added.

    (I might of course be wrong, but that's at least how i understood it)

    You're wrong. 1, 3, and 4 are the same issue, for one; and being as it is 2008 here just like in Denmark, we have had digital phones with SIM cards for as long as you have.

  • Chris (unregistered) in reply to dlikhten

    Something like that.

    Yes - TRWTF is that you can charge anything like $24 for two dozen Tui. Any true NZer will tell you that it's the worst beer known to man.

    Captcha: delenit - actually, is your captcha TRWTF?

  • anonymous (unregistered)

    you people are supposed to be programmers and you aren't paying enough attention to figure out what's wrong with the verizon bill? that's trwtf.

    i'm glad that you don't work for me.

  • Keith R (unregistered) in reply to anonymous
    anonymous:
    you people are supposed to be programmers and you aren't paying enough attention to figure out what's wrong with the verizon bill? that's trwtf.

    i'm glad that you don't work for me.

    Wow, you're a condescending prick.

    I'm glad I don't work for you.

  • tsv (unregistered) in reply to Chris
    Chris:
    Something like that.

    Yes - TRWTF is that you can charge anything like $24 for two dozen Tui. Any true NZer will tell you that it's the worst beer known to man.

    Captcha: delenit - actually, is your captcha TRWTF?

    While I agree that tui is pretty rubbish, there is worse out there, e.g. Southern Gold (that might be SI only). I've seen those stupid signs too btw, along with the "Save $0.01" variety.

    And everyone complaining about cellphone prices can promptly shut up - they are ripping us off here in NZ to the tune of US$0.50+ per minute unless you are on some sort of high volume plan.

  • trang (unregistered)

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