• Gray Falcon (unregistered)

    I'm wondering if the last paycheck matters. Sad to say, given the company's way of doing things, the last check would probably bounce.

  • me (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Fair enough, this is very different to how things work in the UK but I don't know much about the US system so I'm sure you're right. Sounds like a seriously bum deal for the employee though. I may be contractully obliged to work a notice period but then, my company are contractually obliged to give me a notice period if they want to get rid of me. Seems a lot safer than being an emplyee "at will".
    Personally, I'm more than willing to give up the notice requirement on termination if it means I can leave at will. I could literally get up from my desk right now, get in my car and never speak to my employer again, with no legal repercussions. I would absolutely hate being legally required to work a notice period, even though I plan to always give notice anytime I leave a job.
  • eric76 (unregistered) in reply to mr_smith
    mr_smith:
    I find two weeks notice thing more than a bizarre convention here.
    I knew one department head who gave a year's notice. Even with a year's notice, the company wasn't ready for him to go and brought him back as a consultant for some time.
  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Lars Vargas:
    Anonymous:
    Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK.
    In the US, each state has its own employment laws. Many states consider employment "at will", which means that no notice is required by either employee or employer fr termination of employment. Depending on who terminated the relationship determines when final pay is due.
    Rootbeer:
    The RWTF is that the author waited until the last paragraph of the first section to mention that the events took place at a urinal.
    I don't see a urinal mentioned specifically. He may have been in a stall. At least he washed his hands.
    Alex:
    Seconds later, he felt a hand on his shoulder

    As much as I would hate for a hand to fall on my shoulder while using a urinal, I would REALLY REALLY REALLY hate for a hand to fall on my shoulder when I am in the stall.

    You may be making an unjustified buttumption about which direction he was facing. Perhaps you should have carried on reading for just a couple more sentences?
    Alex:
    Seconds later, he felt a hand on his shoulder [ ... ] Michael quickly finished his business, zipped, flushed, and washed his hands.
    Sounds like he was in a stall to me. I think we can infer that Michael has a shy bladder!

    (inb4 "but some urinals have a manual flush")

  • (cs) in reply to amischiefr
    amischiefr:
    He should have turned around in the bathroom and finished up in another direction, if you get my drift.
    +1! That was my exact same thought before I even finished reading the sentence about how I'd react in that situation. Turn around and stand there, facing the boss and pissing over his legs and feet, and say with a completely straight face "No, come on then, if it's really that important let's go fix it straight away".

    Plus it would also have solved the whole want-to-resign-at-once-this-very-second problem at the same time!

  • (cs) in reply to eric76

    Unless there was a life or costly equipment or material(think industril) at stake, I would extremely hate for someone to interrupt my bathroom break for anything.

    I don't know why he put the index together. If he needed out then and there, then why did he let the exit interview last 4 hours and also do the index. Any moron would know that Shanes request is stupid, because the one thing you leave off the list is the thing that will probably happen the next week.

    Since Shane thinks C++ is so easy, Mike should have just said, "Shane, you fix it then"

  • (cs)

    Mens' Room

    Simple rule for where to put possessive apostrophes:

    John's book = book of John Bess' book = book of Bess Mens' room = room of mens ERROR!! Men's room = room of men (much better)

  • illum (unregistered) in reply to James S
    James S:
    "An employee without a written employment contract for a definite period of time who quits without giving 72 hours prior notice</am> must be paid all of his or her wages, including accrued vacation, within 72 hours of quitting." [emphasis added]
    Liar.
  • bob (unregistered)

    employers not paying wages.. fuckers. i had this happen once.. the fuck paid up right fast after mr lawyer said hello.

    assholes.. you work your ass off that thats the favour you get in return.

    take their code and passwords.. publish it.

  • saluto (unregistered) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    > Mens' Room

    Simple rule for where to put possessive apostrophes:

    John's book = book of John Bess' book = book of Bess Mens' room = room of mens ERROR!! Men's room = room of men (much better)

    Don't you know who Mens is? Hahaha! You suck.

  • (cs) in reply to James S
    James S:
    So, I think in this case, where an employer willfully and tauntingly refuses to pay, and said employer is batshit crazy, it would be worth it to remind them of the law... say, on day 29 [of a 30 day limit].
    Why wait that long? Then they have no incentive to pay you without making you go through hell.

    Now, if you tell them on day 16, then they have a whole paycheck to motivate them.

  • Former Employee (unregistered)

    A co-worker of mine at an old job had this happen. The boss decided not to pay him the last check he was owed.

    My co-worker called the police.

    After speaking with the officer, the boss decided to pay the last check in full.

  • (cs)
    Mark:
    "Sighing at Shane's blatant disregard of the Mens' Room Buffer Zone Rules..."
    C'mon, even us females know about that rule. Leave one urinal between you and the other guy, don't touch, and don't look.

    As commented by others, I'd have peed on him too... you know... if I was a guy.

  • Mike (unregistered) in reply to Loopy
    Loopy:
    California? Just go to the state labor board. You're an employee, you work, you get paid. Worked for me when a dirtbag employer decided to stop payment on my second to last paycheck, and not pay at all on the last one.

    Also, AVG is only free for personal use. I'd call the BSA and put in for the reward on this dirtbag (I usually despise the BSA, but hey, fight scum w/scum).

    'BSA' as in Birmingham Small Arms? As in motorcycles? I preferred Norton. Who later went on to produce a suite of antivirus software. Like AVG.

  • Darren (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Anon:
    "Last paycheck no longer available"? Ooooh, that one's a little.. y'know... illegal.
    Probably not. Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK. You could try to argue the toss in court but it's just easier to forget about it, which is probably what he did.

    In the US, however, there is almost never a work contract. The overwhelming majority of employment is "at will" - meaning either party can terminate it for no reason whatever, without any notice of any kind.

    The company still has to issue the final paycheck for all time worked, and they have to do it as part of the normal pay cycle (though some states have more-aggressive laws, like instant payment).

  • (cs) in reply to Griphon
    Griphon:
    The article states that it occurred in California, which is not an at-will state. However, that won't stop the legal forces or DOL from recovering his back pay.

    All US states are at-will states. Limitations on the at-will doctrine are only limits to when an employer can fire an employee and vary from state to state. In all cases, however, an employee is free to terminate non-explicitly-contractual work at will and expect to receive any compensation due them for the work they have completed.

    The reason some consider California a non-at-will state is because they have recognized a breach of an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing as an exception to at-will employment. This kind of exception esentially means that the employer has to have a fair reason for terminating employment. It does not bind the employee in any way.

  • will (unregistered)

    While most people are at will there are still limitations on the companies. They cannot fire you for sex,age, religion for any of the other protected items. If you have an employee handbook that is considered contract by most states. So if the handbook says that you have to be warned before fired then that is the case.

    Where you do see companies do is not pay you for vacation days if you don't give them notice and if you checked there was probably a form you signed when you started the job that stated this.

  • ozymandias (unregistered) in reply to AlpineR
    AlpineR:
    I need step-by-step instructions on how to fix any problem that that could come in the future.
    1 GOOGLE IT
2 POST AN AD ON CRAIGSLIST
3 GOTO 1

    I would go so far as to print this out, and hand it in: http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/tech_support_cheat_sheet.png

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to mr_smith
    mr_smith:
    The USA has almost no protection for workers. Most employment is at will which means they can let you go for any reason without notice. On the flip side, you can leave at any time without notice. I find two weeks notice thing more than a bizarre convention here.

    I'm originally from Canada where you had to give notice (and the employer had to give you notice).

    I don't know what you mean. The US has excellent protection for workers. It's called "free enterprise" and "competition". If my employer gives me a bum deal, I can quit and go somewhere else. The fact that the knows that I can do that gives him an incentive to treat me decently, and if he doesn't, then I can carry through on the bluff and leave.

    If you find that you can't get a better deal anywhere else, that there is literally no employer anywhere in the entire country willing to hire you under the conditions that you want, then maybe your expectations are unrealistic.

    I think that's much better protection than relying on the government to tell both me and the employer what constitutes "fair". If conditions of employment are determined by negotiation between me and my employer, then if I don't like the deal the employer offers, I can go across town and work for someone else. If conditions of employment are determined by the government, then if I don't like the deal, my only alternative is to hope that in the next election the winnner make rules I like better -- a prospect for which I am just one vote out of tens of millions, assuming there is even a candidate in the race that I like -- or I can move to another country.

  • ozymandias (unregistered) in reply to Darren
    Darren:
    Anonymous:
    Anon:
    "Last paycheck no longer available"? Ooooh, that one's a little.. y'know... illegal.
    Probably not. Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK. You could try to argue the toss in court but it's just easier to forget about it, which is probably what he did.

    In the US, however, there is almost never a work contract. The overwhelming majority of employment is "at will" - meaning either party can terminate it for no reason whatever, without any notice of any kind.

    Where do you get your information? Every job I have ever had (including lifeguard, store attendant, and field hand in high school) all had them. When I hit the college level, the contracts simply got longer and larger, but they certainly existed. I have never even heard of a professional position without a contract -- nor would I, or anyone I know, accept something like that.

  • Harrow (unregistered) in reply to Loopy
    Loopy:
    AVG is only free for personal use. I'd call the BSA and put in for the reward on this dirtbag.
    Even better, patch the XP Pro servers to accept more than 10 connections, being careful to perform the actual registry changes under Shane's account. This gives Michael two things to report to the BSA.

    -Harrow.

  • SR (unregistered) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    'BSA' as in Birmingham Small Arms? As in motorcycles? I preferred Norton. Who later went on to produce a suite of antivirus software. Like AVG.

    I'm guessing Business Software Alliance. As in software.

    I enjoyed your tangent, though.

  • Darren (unregistered) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    > Mens' Room

    Simple rule for where to put possessive apostrophes:

    John's book = book of John Bess' book = book of Bess Mens' room = room of mens ERROR!! Men's room = room of men (much better)

    ARGH! There's little worse than getting your advice wrong when you're correcting someone's writing.

    It would be Bess's book, damn it! There are a few exceptions, but the possessive of proper nouns ending with an 's' typically requires the addition of the apostrophe and 's', as my example above.

    See the Wikipedia article for the details.

  • Christopher (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Anon:
    "Last paycheck no longer available"? Ooooh, that one's a little.. y'know... illegal.
    Probably not. Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK. You could try to argue the toss in court but it's just easier to forget about it, which is probably what he did.

    Europe has tougher employee protection laws (my last employer went through a lot of pain when closing down its UK office - it was so tough the hoops the executive staff here had to jump through) but this was California.

    Like most IT workers here (myself included) Michael was likely employed "at will" with no contract. I could get up and walk out of here right now, just as my employer could tell me to leave at any time for any or no reason (so I may as well read WTF on company time anyway).

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Anon:
    "Last paycheck no longer available"? Ooooh, that one's a little.. y'know... illegal.
    Probably not. Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK. You could try to argue the toss in court but it's just easier to forget about it, which is probably what he did.
    In order of preference:
    1. At the urinal: rotate and pee on offending manager
    2. At the exit interview: if you REALLY want me to work 2 weeks notice, I can, but given the way you just treated me and in my present state of mind i'll probably wind up making lots of mistakes (and then ensure that you do, with intensity increasing with time until they beg you to take the money and go)
    3. re: list of steps to fix anything that might come up: since I can't list everything that might possibly occur in the future, if you call me when something comes up, I'll try to help (and then be in the middle of an emergency at the time, or just don't remember)
    4. With no server room, their backup was probably iffy at best: accidentally trash something critical on the main "server"
  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Lars Vargas:
    Anonymous:
    Michael broke his contract when he refused to work a notice period. That would be seen as legitimate grounds for withholding his final pay-check, at least here in the UK.
    In the US, each state has its own employment laws. Many states consider employment "at will", which means that no notice is required by either employee or employer fr termination of employment. Depending on who terminated the relationship determines when final pay is due.
    Rootbeer:
    The RWTF is that the author waited until the last paragraph of the first section to mention that the events took place at a urinal.
    I don't see a urinal mentioned specifically. He may have been in a stall. At least he washed his hands.
    Alex:
    Seconds later, he felt a hand on his shoulder

    As much as I would hate for a hand to fall on my shoulder while using a urinal, I would REALLY REALLY REALLY hate for a hand to fall on my shoulder when I am in the stall.


    Thank you for that imagine, Senator Craig!

    PS Second Try.

  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    "Last paycheck no longer available"? Ooooh, that one's a little.. y'know... illegal.

    It might be (depending on any clauses agreed upon during the hiring process.

    But even if it was squarely illegal, sometimes you just suck it up because the cost of litigation is way greater than the cost of the monies being held illegally.

    I had a problem like that when looking/finding/losing jobs during the dot-net bubblecaust. By my accounts I lost a few $K's in unpaid contracting fees, but I let that go while getting my first stable job in months. The litigation costs and the mental/emotional baggage of dragging that crap while trying to get up and running at a new job was going to be too much. So I let it slip.

    Lost some of my hard-earned money, and let someone get away with it. BUT I did what needed to be done FOR ME at particular moment, flying free like a bee. Probably the one of the best decisions I've made.

    So I can see how Michael, the character of this story would walk away willing to lose a paycheck. Walk away from a dreaded crap hole that drags you down emotionally and professionally, even if it means losing a paycheck ;)

  • Nyall (unregistered)

    He was touching you while you where using the bathroom. Sue for sexual harassment

  • Buffled (unregistered) in reply to Kensey
    Kensey:
    that one I'd been threatened with my job over ridiculous issues like not wanting to work overtime for a personal project my boss had arrogated into the company
    I don't think that word means what you think it means ;)
  • Californian (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous

    No, California is an at-will state and as such you can be fired at any time and you can quit at any time. Either way you still get paid for work done.

  • Ben4jammin (unregistered) in reply to EatenByAGrue
    EatenByAGrue:
    Despite being a heckuvaguy, there was a LOT of turnover with his IT staff.

    Awoooga! Awoooga! Beep beep beep beep...

    Sorry, that was my "Don't take the job" alarm going off. Of course, I can tell you having been in the same position as Michael (broke and unemployed) that the correct thing to do is take the bad job but keep yourself on the job market, and tell the heckuvaguy to shove it as soon as possible.

    Also, one could argue that interrupting a guy in a urinal is sexual harassment. That combined with the withholding pay could be a fairly significant claim. Of course, the DoL route is much cheaper.

    Agreed...there is ALWAYS a reason for high turnover. And no, you will NOT be the one to be "dedicated enough" to turn it around. When someone tells you up front that there is a turnover problem you should believe them, and unless you are being hired specifically to help address it, make a quick exit.

  • (cs) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    Loopy:
    Also, AVG is only free for personal use. I'd call the BSA and put in for the reward on this dirtbag.

    'BSA' as in Birmingham Small Arms? As in motorcycles?

    The Boy Scouts of America. They get mighty unpleasant when they hear that people are abusing software licenses.

  • (cs)

    Yep, AVG is not free for use in a business. It's only free for personal use at home. Using it in a business is ... um ... fraud.

  • (cs) in reply to Ricardino
    Ricardino:
    TRWTF is that tcpip.sys can be patched to accept more than 10 connections.

    Yep, but Windows XP Pro is not licensed to be used as a server. The story said that the CEO liked Windows, and didn't want to change to something else, but has he heard about Windows Server?

  • EmperorOfCanada (unregistered)

    For some reason there are a huge number of company owners who turn to their IT people and seem to think that they can say let's you work really hard and buy me a new Porsche. But think that you aren't a team player when you balk.

    This makes sense when they put in a pile of capital (capitalism) but not when they have a crappy office in a crappy building in a crappy industrial park.

    I own a company where I have developed a series of pretty financially successful products yet I am approached nearly every week by people who want to "develop" a product with me. They say things like "You develop it and I'll market it." This is odd seeing that it is pretty damn obvious that I have successfully marketed my products without their "help" Then they try to hire me. They seem to take offense when I point out that I will make more in a couple of days than they were planning on paying me for what would have minimally been months of work.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    I had my own "Peripheral Maven" experience, complete with a Craig's List contractor to "help" me, and a manager who knew everything even though I had been hired to guide him through producing the product. I should have known on my starting day, when the first piece of paper I had to sign said "I acknowledge that this company is managed by techniques of the L. Ron Hubbard school of management, not to be confused with the Church of Scientology". I had a child in college and thus big bills to pay, but even today I think it might have been the better move to run screaming from the building with my hands in the air.

  • A. Cube (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Sounds like a seriously bum deal for the employee though.

    As an employee in the United States, let me say that I vastly prefer an "at will" relationship. I prefer having my options open to being "safe" (whatever the heck that means in this context).

  • (cs) in reply to Griphon
    Griphon:
    The article states that it occurred in California, which is not an at-will state. However, that won't stop the legal forces or DOL from recovering his back pay.

    Wrong. California is an at-will state.

  • FatherStorm (unregistered) in reply to Carl
    Carl:
    Oh come on. All that mysterious setup about the security cameras and then the doors didn't even auto-lock when he tried to leave. I want a refund!
    there weren't any open TCP/IP connections available to talk to the Windows 95b machine controlling the doors.
  • Drone (unregistered)

    "I need step-by-step instructions on how to fix any problem that that could come in the future."

    Ok Boss. Please provide me with an exhaustive list of every problem that could come in the future, and I'll write down instructions on how to fix it. Oh, and here's my new hourly rate.

  • Vlad Patryshev (unregistered)

    I believe small claims court may help with the last paycheck.

  • (cs) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    Loopy:
    California? Just go to the state labor board. You're an employee, you work, you get paid. Worked for me when a dirtbag employer decided to stop payment on my second to last paycheck, and not pay at all on the last one.

    Also, AVG is only free for personal use. I'd call the BSA and put in for the reward on this dirtbag (I usually despise the BSA, but hey, fight scum w/scum).

    'BSA' as in Birmingham Small Arms? As in motorcycles? I preferred Norton. Who later went on to produce a suite of antivirus software. Like AVG.

    What about Boy Scouts of America?
  • UC (unregistered) in reply to SarahE
    SarahE:
    Mark:
    "Sighing at Shane's blatant disregard of the Mens' Room Buffer Zone Rules..."
    C'mon, even us females know about that rule. Leave one urinal between you and the other guy, don't touch, and don't look.

    As commented by others, I'd have peed on him too... you know... if I was a guy.

    It's actually a little more complicated than that...

    [url]http://www.beerandtotty.co.uk/urinal/[url]

  • (cs)
    Synchronos:
    Captcha Saluto:
    Bappi:
    shadowman:
    MadJo@Work:
    Rootbeer:
    ...
    ... How long can we keep doing this?

    You just had to add that last line didn't ya?

  • (cs) in reply to John
    John:
    I'd have to wonder where this happened.
    Erm, right there in the article:
    Some time ago, when Michael had first moved out to California, he did so with big hopes of striking "Tech Gold". Making six-figures, working at some dot-com, and retiring by 30. Then reality hit and, facing [extreme hardship] to make rent, Michael was thrilled when...
    It's pretty clearly the Bay Area.
  • EmperorOfCanada (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job

    A good network admin is worth their weight in gold. They smell trouble and fix it long before it becomes the remotest of problems. When problems happen they have solutions at the ready. And when really bad problems happen they come up with ingenious solutions. And best of all they do it all with that ease that makes others think they could do it too. Oh and they save money on hardware too.

    I was walking with our admin down a noisy row of servers when the server admin (a gold one) stopped and walked back a few doors. He opened the door and said that a drive sounded bad. None of the yellow lights were on so he went to a terminal and all looked good. He hotswapped a few drives until the tiny rattle stopped. Just by shaking the bad drive you could tell something was wrong inside. Every command he had ever typed was in a easily access log for each machine. But most amazingly he wasn't the usual Dr. No that most admins are. If you asked him to put the server room into low orbit he would both figure out how to do it and also do a cost/benefit sheet showing that it might not be a good idea.

    But a bad server admin is worth their waste in plague bacteria. The servers can't be trusted; yet you can trust your admin to get squarely in the way of any progress. "Novell meets our company's needs and I have a dozen white sheets to prove it."

  • (cs) in reply to UC
    UC:
    SarahE:
    Mark:
    "Sighing at Shane's blatant disregard of the Mens' Room Buffer Zone Rules..."
    C'mon, even us females know about that rule. Leave one urinal between you and the other guy, don't touch, and don't look.

    As commented by others, I'd have peed on him too... you know... if I was a guy.

    It's actually a little more complicated than that...

    [url]http://www.beerandtotty.co.uk/urinal/[url]

    It was only after I finished the challenge (with a score of 19, so I pass), that I thought to do a View > Source.

    Could have gotten a perfect score by cheating with the client-side javascript validation. WTF? Oh Well.

  • (cs) in reply to Buffled
    Buffled:
    Kensey:
    that one I'd been threatened with my job over ridiculous issues like not wanting to work overtime for a personal project my boss had arrogated into the company
    I don't think that word means what you think it means ;)

    "To take or claim for oneself without right"? That's exactly what I meant. It was my project, done on my time, then he demanded I complete it for the company or he'd fire me.

  • (cs) in reply to ozymandias
    ozymandias:
    Darren:

    In the US, however, there is almost never a work contract. The overwhelming majority of employment is "at will" - meaning either party can terminate it for no reason whatever, without any notice of any kind.

    Where do you get your information? Every job I have ever had (including lifeguard, store attendant, and field hand in high school) all had them. When I hit the college level, the contracts simply got longer and larger, but they certainly existed. I have never even heard of a professional position without a contract -- nor would I, or anyone I know, accept something like that.

    There may be an employment agreement, but that is not (necessarily) the same thing as an employment contract that specifies a guaranteed period of employment at a guaranteed rate of pay (barring specified events that trigger termination or modification of the contractual relationship). An employment agreement may (and most do) specify at-will and disclaim contractual employment.

  • Mark Tempel (unregistered) in reply to MindChild

    IANAL but I did have a reason to consult a laywer in the state of MN for this type of issue. I found out that here, the law is written such that all you have to do is submit a written request to your employer for the money they owe you, and every day they delay in paying you (up to a max of 15) they owe you another days wage.

    Employers have something like 20 days to comply after an employee quits before they are subject to the penalty.

    An employee can just take the employer to small claims court ($50 fee), and most likely they will win.

    Pretty easy in MN though I'm not sure what it is like where the poster is located.

    Note: The person I looked into this for ended up coming to a different settlement, so I didn't get to see the fun of small claims court.

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