• Jonathan Collins (unregistered)

    It seems that so far no one has actually leveled any specific criticism against PHP/LAMP.

    Unless the count the guy that thinks Active Directory has something to do with LAMP.

    Hmmm.

  • Neo31337 (unregistered) in reply to evilspoons

    lol. I had this exact thought.

  • PHP Man (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    ...But, in a lot of cases, you have to question why they chose PHP in the first place. I mean, it's not exactly friendly to an MVC solution, is it?

    Actually there are a number of MVC frameworks available for PHP such as CakePHP (http://www.phpwact.org/php/mvc_frameworks). PHP isn't intrisically MVC, but neither is Java Server Pages, or ASP.NET but there are frameworks available for those platforms that give you MVC capabilities (such as Struts and ASP.NET MVC).

    Also you still haven;t countered the argument that there are a lot of major websites written in PHP.

  • Jonathan Collins (unregistered)

    Wait, I found one:

    "I mean, it's not exactly friendly to an MVC solution, is it?"

    How do you figure?

    You can write PHP 5 code that is virtually identical to Java, not to mention that PHP itself is a templating language. Are you trying to say that Java isn't friendly to an MVC solution?

  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to Jonathan Collins
    Jonathan Collins:
    Wait, I found one:

    "I mean, it's not exactly friendly to an MVC solution, is it?"

    How do you figure?

    You can write PHP 5 code that is virtually identical to Java, not to mention that PHP itself is a templating language. Are you trying to say that Java isn't friendly to an MVC solution?

    That's kind of what "Turing complete" means. PHP is a lousy choice for a templating language. And no, I'm not.

    Next idiot please.

  • Anonymous Asshole (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    That's kind of what "Turing complete" means.
    What's kind of what "Turing complete" means?

    Because I don't think it means what you think it means.

  • Doozerboy (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Asshole
    Anonymous Asshole:
    Bim Job:
    That's kind of what "Turing complete" means.
    What's kind of what "Turing complete" means?

    Because I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Inconceivable!

  • Mike Caron (unregistered)

    Heh, I was right.

    Paraphrasing: "OMG PHP suxxors"

    PHP does MVC really well. Well, M and VC, anyway.

  • BlindedByTheCode (unregistered) in reply to I Collect Spores Molds and Fungus

    With regards to the twinkie - we all know size doesn't matter!!

    Captcha: transverbero - When a verb dresses up as a noun.

  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to PHP Man
    PHP Man:
    Bim Job:
    ...But, in a lot of cases, you have to question why they chose PHP in the first place. I mean, it's not exactly friendly to an MVC solution, is it?

    Actually there are a number of MVC frameworks available for PHP such as CakePHP (http://www.phpwact.org/php/mvc_frameworks). PHP isn't intrisically MVC, but neither is Java Server Pages, or ASP.NET but there are frameworks available for those platforms that give you MVC capabilities (such as Struts and ASP.NET MVC).

    Also you still haven;t countered the argument that there are a lot of major websites written in PHP.

    And, despite two opportunities, you haven't "countered the argument" -- which is ludicrous, so I'll just restrict myself to asking why you haven't "addressed my position:"

    Bim Job:
    When people say "A poor craftsman blames his tools," they are generally ignoring the following:

    (1) The original meaning of this phrase is that a good craftsman would have sharpened the tools, greased the wang-nuts, and generally taken more care. It isn't immediately obvious how this applies to the choice of PHP. (2) Should your choice of tools ("Look! I have a hammer! It must be a nail!") be inappropriate, a good craftsman will upgrade their tool-set. (3) On the unlikely assumption that the good craftsman was, in this, case, forced to use a totally inadequate tool, much against their will, then a good craftsman will do the best f**king job they can -- and then leave, for a job where they can use proper tools.

    Best find a more credible defense for the 99.999% of PHP programmers out there who should be doing something more useful, like crocheting.

    To address your position: PHP is an incredibly lousy choice for an MVC platform. (As is ASP.Net.) They're not designed for it, and they've not developed towards it.

    The fact that a bunch of "major websites" are written in PHP is simply an indication of sunk costs and opportunity cost. It is, by no means, a suggestion that PHP was the right choice in the first place. And, if you'll drag your tiny little memory back to what I first said, there's nothing wrong with using PHP -- if that happens to be the right choice for you.

    But, let's get sane and business-like. I'm going to develop a website, in November 2009, over the next six months. I've got tens of cheap (and possibly brilliant) layout designers. I'm going to work on top of a LAMP stack, for some reason. (Hey, I'm not the CFO!)

    Language of choice: so much not PHP.

    Wanna know why?

    It's not the fact that the language is a lash-up.

    It's not the fact that the libraries are confusing mulch.

    It's not the fact that I'd have to pick one out of many dismal MVC wannabe frameworks.

    It's not even the fact that there are so many better alternatives out there.

    No, it's the fact that 99.999% of PHP programmers are better suited to crochet. This is quite important. Have you ever tried to maintain crochet? That'll be 80% of your stupid f**king job, and believe me, I'm not even going to pay that much.

    Got that?

    Now. Look back at the OP, and tell me from the heart that this isn't the standard 99.999% of PHP gimp disaster.

  • Patrick (unregistered) in reply to Jonathan Collins
    Jonathan Collins:
    It seems that so far no one has actually leveled any specific criticism against PHP/LAMP.

    No-one CAN make a specific criticism against PHP. There's nothing wrong with it. It was built specifically for web pages, and does the job perfectly.

    Now, JSP? That's just Java. Written for graphical applications, object oriented stuff.

    ASP.NET? Using C# or VBScript or VB.NET, all built specifically for desktop applications (well, not vbscript, that's a failed javascript rival they put into internet explorer). More object oriented stuff.

    You don't need object oriented in a web app. Grab what you need and spit out a string. That's it. Command line apps get more complex than that. And yes, PHP does support object oriented, but it can do without as well, and that's where its power comes from. Don't need this function? Don't include the file that contains it. Simple. Everything you need is within reach of a single function call. Why waste time assigning data structures to objects when you're just going to dump it all and start again the next time the user clicks a link? Put it in an array and spit out the array. Don't know how big the array is? Doesn't matter, just use it, it'll adjust. Got convoluted spaghetti code that does weird things? You wrote it, you idi-it!

    ("idi" being an undefined acronym essentially meaning "make better". say it aloud.)

  • Patrick (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    Now. Look back at the OP, and tell me from the heart that this isn't the standard 99.999% of PHP gimp disaster.
    I've seen worse in C#, C++, Java, JSP, ASP, Delphi, VB... need I go on? A lot of them are on this site, look in the archives. I don't get why you seem to be taking this so personally. Are you just trying to bark everyone out so you can claim victory by last-man-standing? That's not nice.
  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Asshole
    Anonymous Asshole:
    Bim Job:
    Jonathan Collins:
    You can write PHP 5 code that is virtually identical to Java
    That's kind of what "Turing complete" means.
    What's kind of what "Turing complete" means?

    Because I don't think it means what you think it means.

    Well, we're apparently in pantomime season.

    Oh Yes it does!

    It's not the language, is it? Blah blah blah. But, as it happens, most computer languages are Turing complete. PHP5 and Java both. All you need is an Abstract Syntax Tree, a pencil, and an infinite length of paper tape. (Small King's College Cambridge joke, there.)

    Being Turing complete doesn't make a language suitable for purpose -- it's a very broad definition.

    Neither, incidentally, does signing off as "Anonymous Asshole" make you one tenth the man that Andre the Giant was. Mind you, he used to get driven to school by Samuel Beckett.

    You? Not so much.

  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to Patrick
    Patrick:
    Bim Job:
    Now. Look back at the OP, and tell me from the heart that this isn't the standard 99.999% of PHP gimp disaster.
    I've seen worse in C#, C++, Java, JSP, ASP, Delphi, VB... need I go on? A lot of them are on this site, look in the archives. I don't get why you seem to be taking this so personally. Are you just trying to bark everyone out so you can claim victory by last-man-standing? That's not nice.
    Well, I'm not a nice man.

    Next to last, please?

  • Real-modo (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    PHP Man:
    ... it's the competancy of the developer that counts.
    Jesus, you really do need to learn how to spell, don't you? It's "competency." ...
    No, it's "competence". And he's called "PHP Man", not Jesus.
  • (cs) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    To address your position: PHP is an incredibly lousy choice for an MVC platform. (As is ASP.Net.) They're not designed for it, and they've not developed towards it.
    And you base this on...?

    Given the bombastic nature of your replies combined with a total lack of supporting evidence, I'm going to guess that you work with Ruby on Rails or are part of some other similarly masturbatory clique. Am I right?

    ...I'm going to work on top of a LAMP stack, for some reason. ... Language of choice: so much not PHP.

    Wanna know why?

    Because you're too ignorant to realize that the "P" in "LAMP" stands for "PHP?"
  • Real-modo (unregistered) in reply to Real-modo

    ... and thanks for ruining the site for me. Goodbye.

  • Adam Robinson (unregistered) in reply to Aaron
    Aaron:
    ...masturbatory clique

    This sounds like sufficient cause to see a physician.

  • BF (unregistered) in reply to James
    James:
    So speaking as a desktop-app programmer who's only just starting to do more web development: if PHP is so evil, all you naysayers, what *should* I be using? (If anybody comes back with "JSP" I'll laugh them off the site).

    Web Applications should be written in ColdFusion, as god intended. It's the only language that was written from the ground up to be used to build web applications, and the only excuse against it was that it's not free.

    Well guess what? With Railo and BlueDragon it's not 100% free and there is no longer an excuse for using somethign as awefull as PHP when something as awesome as CF is available.

  • Drew** (unregistered)

    Always enjoy a good holy war. eats popcorn

  • Jonathan Collins (unregistered)

    "PHP is a lousy choice for a templating language."

    I'd have to agree with you there, but then again that wasn't really the point, was it?

    "And no, I'm not."

    What is it about PHP that isn't friendly to MVC (keeping in mind you can write PHP that's identical to Java, which you claim is friendly to MVC)?

    "No, it's the fact that 99.999% of PHP programmers are better suited to crochet."

    So you can't explain why symfony, for example, is a "dismal MVC wannabe framework" (let me guess, you've never used it?), so you've moved on to complaining about the skill level of the average PHP programmer.

    ...which begs the question, why don't you just learn how to interview?

  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to Aaron
    Aaron:
    Bim Job:
    To address your position: PHP is an incredibly lousy choice for an MVC platform. (As is ASP.Net.) They're not designed for it, and they've not developed towards it.
    And you base this on...?

    Given the bombastic nature of your replies combined with a total lack of supporting evidence, I'm going to guess that you work with Ruby on Rails or are part of some other similarly masturbatory clique. Am I right?

    ...I'm going to work on top of a LAMP stack, for some reason. ... Language of choice: so much not PHP.

    Wanna know why?

    Because you're too ignorant to realize that the "P" in "LAMP" stands for "PHP?"
    I really was going to give up on this thread. I felt I owed it to Patrick, because he's taken the time to make a reasonable argument, and I'd rather he had the last word.

    And then -- not one, but two, childish idiots.

    The original "P" was Perl. I don't really care whether your version of "P" is PHP or Python or PLisp or PWhatever. The general assumption is that the P in question is a scripting language, available on a Linux platform, switched through the (disgusting, but that's another issue) Apache engine, and relying for persistence on MySQL.

    I'll buy ignorance for a dollar, Aaron. What I won't buy is being forced to use an idiot language like PHP when I have better alternatives. That's kind of the "Language of choice" thing.

    Real-modo:
    ... and thanks for ruining the site for me. Goodbye.
    We're all going to miss you.

    And no, Aaron, I don't work on Ruby on Rails. I'm a systems programmer. I watch this rubbish from the sidelines. As far as I can tell, you're all pretty worthless -- but I'm open-minded about this. Let's see what happens when I bring the next website up.

    Oh ... Shit!!!

  • Bim Job (unregistered) in reply to Jonathan Collins
    Jonathan Collins:
    "PHP is a lousy choice for a templating language."

    I'd have to agree with you there, but then again that wasn't really the point, was it?

    "And no, I'm not."

    What is it about PHP that isn't friendly to MVC (keeping in mind you can write PHP that's identical to Java, which you claim is friendly to MVC)?

    "No, it's the fact that 99.999% of PHP programmers are better suited to crochet."

    So you can't explain why symfony, for example, is a "dismal MVC wannabe framework" (let me guess, you've never used it?), so you've moved on to complaining about the skill level of the average PHP programmer.

    ...which begs the question, why don't you just learn how to interview?

    AAAARGH!

    I've never learnt to play the trombone, either. There's a dangling question, if ever I saw one. Life is too short to learn either some mis-spelt abortion like "symfony" or a big brass thing that requires me to form an embouchure.

    I'm not complaining about the skill level of the average PHP programmer. I never even mentioned the skill level of the average PHP programmer. In fact, I couldn't give a shit. I'm merely observing that, should you choose to distinguish the mathematical concept of "average" into the typical three categories of arithmetic, median, and geometric, then the only one that gives you a chance of hiring a decent PHP programmer (and there's a pretty good chance of them being able to program in any other language whatsoever) is the geometric. I'll admit: 99.999% is a bit extreme. But it's a good starting point.

    Good Lord, man, where did "interviewing" come in? I've done that, with mixed success. I've nibbled on crocodile nipples, although I'd caution against that if the crocodile is male. I've led men up mountains, and women down valleys.

    One thing I won't do is program in PHP again. It offends my aesthetic sensibilities.

  • Jonathan Collins (unregistered)

    "I'm a systems programmer. I watch this rubbish from the sidelines."

    Oh, dear. Who better to judge web MVC frameworks than a systems programmer watching from the sidelines?

    Actually, fuck it. You're right. This whole "web application" thing is going to die out soon enough.

  • Stinky (unregistered)

    This is why you dont hire no talent hacks for low pay to do your site coding.

    It's also a great example of you get what you pay for. These companies completely deserve the quality work they get.

    Hey complete WEB site design plus scripting? Then you have to pay professional wages! That means $36.00 an hour at a STARTING PAY RATE for a Noob that actually has a clue as to what he is doing.

    MCSE's need not apply.

  • Too Lame to Log In (unregistered) in reply to You sir, and idiot
    You sir:
    Don't blame the gun, blame the shooter.
    Blame the bullets.
  • Homer (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    I Collect Spores Molds and Fungus:
    Imagine a single Twinkie represents all the WTFs ever created in LAMP. Active Directory itself would be a Twinkie 35-feet long, weighing approximately 600 pounds.

    That's a big Twinkie!

    Mmmmm, twinkie!

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Stinky
    Stinky:
    MCSE's need not apply.

    I certainly hope you don't hire an MCSE (Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer, aka Server Admin) to develop a webpage for you... or at least don't pay much money for it.

    Now a MCSD or MCPD would work a lot better for you (assuming your doing ASP.Net).

    (captcha similis - the next sims game)

  • Anonymously Yours (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Pathetic. Of course, that's what you get for writing an enterprise application in Personal Home Page. What sort of idiot looks at the requirements for an enterprise web-app and thinks to himself "this is perfect for Personal Home Page (it will be just like my Geocities site!)"??
    Obvious troll is obvious... but people are still taking the bait in spite of it. A very begrudging congratulations are in order.

    /me contemplates starting a Linux vs Mac war with what is apparently an easy crowd to rile up today.

  • Yazeran (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job

    [quote user="Bim Job"] What's kind of what "Turing complete" means?

    Because I don't think it means what you think it means.[/quote]Well, we're apparently in pantomime season.

    Oh Yes it does!

    It's not the language, is it? Blah blah blah. But, as it happens, most computer languages are Turing complete. PHP5 and Java both. All you need is an Abstract Syntax Tree, a pencil, and an infinite length of paper tape. (Small King's College Cambridge joke, there.)

    Being Turing complete doesn't make a language suitable for purpose -- it's a very broad definition.[/quote]

    Exactly, I mean even BrainF*ck is Turing complete (if the memory is assumed to be infinite), however I would dare anyone to write a database application in it. I'm sure someone can prove that it can be done, but no thanks on trying!

    Yours Yazeran

    Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer

  • (cs) in reply to Drew**
    Drew**:
    Always enjoy a good holy war. *eats popcorn*

    Systems programmer going off about PHP, denying he uses RoR, and some random nutjob out of the crowd cheering on CF? Whoohoo stirred up a turd here we did.

    PHP for MVC? Ok, if you must apply MVC for your needs, use a framework, make a framework, of fix a framework. But STFU, get your damn work done an quit your bitching.

    JSP, I'm sorree its Java just wasn't freaking made for it. Just IMO.

    New fangled jingle-jangle whosits language of the month? Hell, I bet few of you know what haXe or neko are do you? Pretty powerful stuff, but it's young and evolving and hasn't been plastered ALL OVER THE DAMN WEB BY TWITTER FREAKS. Aww. Too bad.

    Tool - for - job. That simple. Lots of tools are awesomely handy. Problem is, even if its the most versatile and most power tool on the planet, if you're trying to bang a screw in with a nail hit by a ball peen hammer, you're still and IDIOT who doesn't know how to use ANY tools. Doesn't matter which f'in language it is!

    WAIT WAIT WAIT

    My popcorn isn't ready.

    Ok, done, and buttered

    You may now debate.

    PS, nice broken quote.

  • Hamish (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    I'm not complaining about the skill level of the average PHP programmer. I never even mentioned the skill level of the average PHP programmer. In fact, I couldn't give a shit. I'm merely observing that, should you choose to distinguish the mathematical concept of "average" into the typical three categories of arithmetic, median, and geometric, then the only one that gives you a chance of hiring a decent PHP programmer (and there's a pretty good chance of them being able to program in any other language whatsoever) is the geometric. I'll admit: 99.999% is a bit extreme. But it's a good starting point.

    I'm 'merely observing' that remarkable feat of double-speak. If Cirque du Soleil ever needs a new contortionist you should drop them a line.

  • Len (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    But, let's get sane and business-like. I'm going to develop a website, in November 2009, over the next six months. I've got tens of cheap (and possibly brilliant) layout designers. I'm going to work on top of a LAMP stack, for some reason. (Hey, I'm not the CFO!)
    So ... what would you use? (Serious question). Why? (In more words: which technologies did you consider and reject and why.) When it comes to developing for the web, I'm truly a n00b -- I'm interested in the thought/decision processes and trade-offs behind the technology decisions.)
  • php,c#,java,brainf*ck,c++,objective-c,vb,ksh,csh,perl (unregistered) in reply to Len

    Once again:

    Good developers can write good, secure code in any language on any platform.

    Bad developers can write bad, WTF code in any language on any platform.

    Mediocre developers can write good code or bad code, the language and platform choice may help or hinder that. Difficult languages/platforms just give mediocre coders more rope to hang themselves with.

    ~80% of developers are mediocre.

    A drunk can total a Ferrari just as easily as Toyota, the Ferrari just lets them do it faster and more spectacularly.

  • Ad hitlerum (unregistered) in reply to gray goat
    gray goat:
    Who gives a shit if he misspelled a word? You obviously understood what he meant which means he communicated with you in an unambiguous manner, and thus the point of language was served. What grammar/spelling Nazi’s tend not to understand is that there is nothing intrinsically pure about language. As long as it serves its purpose, who cares?
    "Nazis."

    Given how misspelled words and malformed syntax drastically affect programming languages, I'm always surprised that some of the people who comment here don't do any better with regular written language.

    I do agree with you that there was no reason for Bim Job to get worked up about the post above his. I disagree with your larger views on language, however.

  • ihavenonameandimustscream (unregistered) in reply to Steve*

    Two stars, dummy!

  • (cs)

    If you just trash PHP without providing a good alternative, you've done nothing but troll. At least someone provided neko as an alternative to PHP, Bim Job just ranted unintelligibly. I hope it at least made you feel good Bim Job.

  • Adam Robinson (unregistered) in reply to php,c#,java,brainf*ck,c++,objective-c,vb,ksh,csh,perl
    php:
    Once again:

    Good developers can write good, secure code in any language on any platform.

    Gnostic nonsense. Nothing to see here.

    It's pure fantasy to believe that any (turing complete, since we're on that term in this thread) language and platform can be used to develop good, secure code. Language perhaps, since it's a specification. Platform, on the other hand, is definitely untrue.

    Captcha: augue: To disagree in creole.

  • (cs)

    I see nothing wrong with this. It's obvious that only admin users will be created with ** in their name directly in the database and the normal users will be restricted from using those characters with some javascript.

    The real WTF is using the double stars and not hardcoding the admin names and passwords. That would make maintenance a breeze.

  • Josh (unregistered)

    You guys debating PHP vs C# vs Mumps vs VB, and complaining about building admin interfaces are completely missing the boat.

    Use Python + Django. Works equally well on .NET / IIS or mod_python / mod_wsgi on Apache / Linux if you want a secure site. And it builds all the admin interfaces for you!

  • **BF (unregistered)

    I write my own MVC framework in Brainf**k.

    Best part is the befunge based templating system for my designers.

    I call it BFB.

    The designer do not complain after the first application of the car battery to their toes.

    BFB much better than PHP. Purple Hippo Poop is a bad language. 999.999999% of HIPPO coders eat lace because it full of holes.

    BTW, I am smarter than you.

  • Tama (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    I've never learnt to play the trombone, either. There's a dangling question, if ever I saw one. Life is too short to learn either some mis-spelt abortion like "symfony" or a big brass thing that requires me to form an embouchure.

    I'm not complaining about the skill level of the average PHP programmer. I never even mentioned the skill level of the average PHP programmer. In fact, I couldn't give a shit. I'm merely observing that, should you choose to distinguish the mathematical concept of "average" into the typical three categories of arithmetic, median, and geometric, then the only one that gives you a chance of hiring a decent PHP programmer (and there's a pretty good chance of them being able to program in any other language whatsoever) is the geometric. I'll admit: 99.999% is a bit extreme. But it's a good starting point.

    Care to elaborate on how the geometric average gives you better chances to hire a decent PHP programmer? Your argument there is as dangling as your trombone.

    And by the way, the three categories of means are arithmetic, geometric and harmonic. The concept of median is unrelated to those categories.

  • (cs) in reply to Patrick
    Patrick:
    PHP Man:
    bjolling:
    Alex Papadimoulis:
    There are several different magnitudes of complexity that can be involved with an administration module, ranging from the full-on set of tables including users, groups, roles, tasks, operations, etc., to a simple IsAdmin column on the users table.
    There is nothing hard about creating full-on administration functionality. Let your domain administrators create, manage and maintain the necessary groups and roles inside Active Directory. In code use IsUserInRole to check what a user can do and use AzMan to perform authorization.

    OK, I'm a LAMP developer (Linux, Apache, PHP, MySQL). What the hell is Active Directory?

    Some bloated crap Micro$oft made to give admins job security. Basically, every function of an application is a "task", Users can be assigned multiple "roles" and if that role can perform a specific task, then permission is granted. Some tasks can be performed by more than one role, and if lots of users are given the same roles, the roles can instead be assigned to a "group" that the users then become "members" of. Administrators have access to all roles, so only one administrator account is needed - in case you lose the user with the role of assigning roles.

    Woo. So, that's the simple version. And then in the code you can accidentally make something that completely skips the role check, and everyone can access it. Among other problems.

    You're a complete dumbass. Active Directory is an LDAP server with Kerberos v3 extensions. Nothing more.

  • php,c#,java,brainf*ck,c++,objective-c,vb,ksh,csh,perl (unregistered) in reply to Adam Robinson
    Adam Robinson:
    php:
    Once again:

    Good developers can write good, secure code in any language on any platform.

    Gnostic nonsense. Nothing to see here.

    It's pure fantasy to believe that any (turing complete, since we're on that term in this thread) language and platform can be used to develop good, secure code. Language perhaps, since it's a specification. Platform, on the other hand, is definitely untrue.

    And the completely missing/ignoring the point award goes to.....

  • The Web is the Root of All Info (unregistered) in reply to Len

    It depends on who's going to be the target of your web site, which you haven't mentioned. (Or, why are you building a web site?):

    For example, take the actual size of the 'site':

    You can create very small web sites for placement into embedded systems, 'http://www.sics.se/~adam/uip/index.php/Main_Page'

    Or, scale to large sites: http://www.aolserver.com/

    That would be one axis of development.

    Another would be bandwidth/connection rate. See: http://developer.yahoo.net/blog/archives/2009/10/a_engineers_gui.html

  • oheso (unregistered) in reply to Bim Job
    Bim Job:
    a good craftsman would have ... greased the wang-nuts

    All this time, I was looking for a good craftsman. Who knew?

  • oheso (unregistered)

    Objects can be extremely useful for website applications. Once I figured that out, I never looked back. Encapsulation and inheritance rock.

    On a larger project, they can even save time. Not just in the long term, either.

  • feugiat (unregistered)

    Now, could someone explain to me how why this kind of WTF cannot happen using other languages? (if you need to see much-enterprise Java code from a major financial institution using similar backdoors, just tell me because I can provide).

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to bob171123
    bob171123:
    If you just trash PHP without providing a good alternative, you've done nothing but troll. At least someone provided neko as an alternative to PHP, Bim Job just ranted unintelligibly. I hope it at least made you feel good Bim Job.

    Ahh good - someone said exactly what I was thinking.

    Y'see - this is why system programmers aren't invited to the christmas party...

  • dog (unregistered) in reply to C# Man
    C# Man:
    phargoth:
    Sorry but... we are talking about Credit Cards Numbers and payments etc... the last thing that this should be is transparent. in my country we have a saying that is "the hell is full of good intentions", and this is one of those cases.

    Sorry to be a pedant, but I thought the phrase was...

    "The road to hell is paved with good intentions"

    Actually, the phrase is like this: "This is not actually true. The road to Hell is paved with frozen door-to-door salesmen. On weekends many of the younger demons go ice-skating down it."

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