• VisualD (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Adhominem (unregistered)

    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

  • Jon (unregistered) in reply to Adhominem
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Erm, no it doesn't - Old-style keyboards (non-usb) are NOT hotswappable so I doubt your bios would tell you to risk frying your board (not that it's very likely).

  • Ruben (unregistered)

    Lol, that poll. Even the title's not correct. Do people ever test their stuff before they put it online/release it/whatever?

  • Southern (unregistered)

    Poor Patti Smith

  • Tp (unregistered)

    The real WTF is that someone voted for Avril Lavigne!

  • buggy (cs)

    Well, they do say that the poll is not scientifically valid.

  • H|B (cs)

    And who the failure is Pam Tillis?

  • Brian C. Barnes (unregistered) in reply to Jon

    Erm - Yes it does. I helped write the BIOS for the old Zenith Data Systems Z-150 computer (built in mid 1980) and that was EXACTLY the intent - the keyboard is not responding - plug the thing in, and then press a key to continue.

    Brian.

  • Russ (unregistered) in reply to VisualD
    Comment held for moderation.
  • AndyRaf (unregistered)

    In the late 80's I worked on video cards for a major PC manufacturer. Along with each card we shipped a 3.5" floppy with device drivers and a manual which included a section on troubleshooting. Midway through production, as a cost-cutting measure, the manual was greatly trimmed. In the new "troubleshooting" section, the manual had a single sentence which read something like: "If your video card is not operating correctly, please read the troubleshooting text file on the enclosed floppy disk".

  • CoyneT (unregistered) in reply to Jon
    Jon:
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Erm, no it doesn't - Old-style keyboards (non-usb) are NOT hotswappable so I doubt your bios would tell you to risk frying your board (not that it's very likely).

    There was no point in trying anyway, because even if you didn't fry the keyboard, it wouldn't initialize properly at this point, so the bios wouldn't recognize it anyhow.

    The solution was to power the machine off, fix the problem, and try again.

    Really, this was was a matter of a non-thinking "one response handles all" solution. The "Press F1 to continue" message was displayed for all errors that occurred during bios startup. Examples: No boot disk found; no hard disk found; no memory found; or a memory error.

    The bios writers just didn't bother to provide a special condition for keyboard problems. But the simple impossibility of pressing F1 without a keyboard led everyone to agree that this was a "special stupidity".

  • Worf (unregistered) in reply to Jon
    Jon:
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Erm, no it doesn't - Old-style keyboards (non-usb) are NOT hotswappable so I doubt your bios would tell you to risk frying your board (not that it's very likely).

    Unfortunately, it does happen. And what fries is normally your motherboard, and NOT your keyboard. It doesn't happen often, but it happens "often enough". XT/AT/PS2 ports are not designed to be hot-swappable, and if you do, the device that most likely goes is your keyboard controller. In a modern PC, that means... your chipset.

    Luckily these days USB is prevalent enough that if you do fry your keyboard controller, you can avoid the nasty replacement of the motherboard. And more BIOSes have USB enabled nowadays, so at least that can work... but that message has been around since the PC was around.

    Maybe it's the manufacturer's way of getting more sales - "Keyboard error - Press F1 to continue" - subtext "and if you don't turn me off, you gotta buy a new PC!".

    captcha: gotcha

  • KingNetSurfer (cs) in reply to Russ
    Russ:
    VisualD:
    [image]

    Silly UI all around in setpoint. Horrible.

    How hard is it to tab to the link and hit space or enter? It's like ppl never used a computer without a mouse before.. .

    Sure that makes the click event happen, but it tells you to Click here to connect, the WTF isn't that it's not possible to get the problem solved, the WTF is that it's telling you to click on something when it knows full well that your mouse isn't working.

    becides, it tells you to click, not tab and space.

    This site is to enjoy the stupidity of what's presented, not to prove that you could solve the problem, obviously you could, or you wouldn't be looking here laughing at the stupidity

    • King
  • tsalvador (cs) in reply to AndyRaf
    AndyRaf:
    "If your video card is not operating correctly, please read the troubleshooting text file on the enclosed floppy disk".

    Why would someone print info that is already available in a text file? Just they are just being a bit more eco-friendly (hopping that there is ANOTHER video card or computer near the poor user).

    Now I just remembered an old lady from my previous job who printed every EULA and license she ever met. Even when reinstalling MSN Messenger every month...

  • rbowes (cs) in reply to Russ
    Russ:
    VisualD:
    [image]

    Silly UI all around in setpoint. Horrible.

    How hard is it to tab to the link and hit space or enter? It's like ppl never used a computer without a mouse before.. .

    That's not clicking! :P

  • Aaron (cs)

    It's a good thing they tell us that the poll isn't scientifically valid - I'd been intending to use it for some market research.

  • Radranic (unregistered) in reply to rbowes

    It seems funny that no one here even considered that they might have another mouse connected to the computer to click with.

    Not that it happens often... but I had 2 mice for ages. Wireless one for normal use and a wired one in reach so in case the wireless died....

  • Hruntio (unregistered) in reply to Radranic

    Or maybe it's a laptop (with which Bluetooth mice are often used) in which case there would be a built-in mouse device.

  • Darien H (unregistered)

    The Real WTF is that they thought that was acceptable UI design.

    I absolutely hate people taking the style of hyperlinks and using them in local GUIs. I don't want a fricking bit of blue text, I want the actual button and all the keyboard navigation and UI affordances that it implies and provides!

  • Pingmaster (cs) in reply to Brian C. Barnes
    Brian C. Barnes:
    Erm - Yes it does. I helped write the BIOS for the old Zenith Data Systems Z-150 computer (built in mid 1980) and that was EXACTLY the intent - the keyboard is not responding - plug the thing in, and then press a key to continue.

    Brian.

    the 'Keyboard Error - Press F1 to continue' was a mainstay of Award and AMI bioses from the mid-80's on to the mid-90's (or from 8086 through to early P1 machines) until USB keyboards became so prevalent that bioses either a) supported them at boot or b) stopped checking for a keyboard.

    Now, the 'keyboard error' message itself is highly generic, it's returned if there are any sort of errors related to the keyboard that the BIOS thinks should be brought to your attention. So what it's really saying is 'There may be a problem with your keyboard. Press F1 if you want to ignore it and keep booting up the machine' Besides, at that point, on the old AT motherboards, you could plug in the keyboard and the system often wouldn't recognize it until you restarted (ps/2 keyboards would work though, but you ran a pretty big risk of roasting your mobo).

  • Sigivald (unregistered)

    Notice the bluetooth logo there?

    That's saying the bluetooth mouse isn't connected.

    Most people using a BT mouse are doing so on a laptop.

    A laptop that has an integrated pointing device, typically a touchpad.

    Which one could use to click that link, to set up the add-on wireless mouse.

    Just sayin'.

  • CynicalTyler (unregistered) in reply to rbowes
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Rank Amateur (cs)

    "Click here to connect": The paradox could have been easily avoided if the control were just labeled "Connect." Never labeled anything "Click here to <x>." It makes it hard to find and adds to the overall clutter.

    And Darien H is right. It should indisputably be a command button, not a link.

    --RA

  • FredSaw (cs) in reply to Russ
    Russ:
    How hard is it to tab to the link and hit space or enter?
    click Pronunciation: \klik\ transitive verb 1: to tab to and hit space or enter.
  • FredSaw (cs) in reply to CynicalTyler
    CynicalTyler:
    Actually I believe it's still an onClick event (or whatever Windows calls such things: (me instanceof JavaGuy)) even if it's initiated by a keyboard.
    "Generate an onClick event here to connect"
  • The MAZZTer (cs) in reply to Adhominem
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Actually, if you don't have anything plugged into a PS/2 port (keyboard/mouse) on boot, it won't be powered until you power off and on again.

    I always took the message to mean "If we detected wrong, and you DO have a keyboard plugged in, press F1" and I actually did get this message once or twice when I had a keyboard plugged in.

    FredSaw:
    "Generate an onClick event here to connect"

    MouseKeys

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to tsalvador
    Why would someone print info that is already available in a text file? Just they are just being a bit more eco-friendly

    And how do you propose to READ the text file when your video card is not working?

  • commenter (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Why would someone print info that is already available in a text file? Just they are just being a bit more eco-friendly

    And how do you propose to READ the text file when your video card is not working?

    Magnotelepathy

  • Maarten (unregistered) in reply to Jon
    Jon:
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Erm, no it doesn't - Old-style keyboards (non-usb) are NOT hotswappable so I doubt your bios would tell you to risk frying your board (not that it's very likely).

    In practice, most of them are hotswappable. I have had to reboot the computer in rare cases, but never ever blown up anything. That's logical, because there is no obvious faillure mode in the physical interface that could blow up anything by running high voltages or currents. You must be thinking of hooking up an IEE1284 printer, where all sorts of damage could occur caused by potential differences up to the mains voltage in case of bad ground connections.

  • AdT (unregistered) in reply to Brian C. Barnes
    Brian C. Barnes:
    Erm - Yes it does. I helped write the BIOS for the old Zenith Data Systems Z-150 computer (built in mid 1980) and that was EXACTLY the intent - the keyboard is not responding - plug the thing in, and then press a key to continue.

    Brian.

    LOL! I hope the Zenith Data Systems Z-150 did not use a PS/2 keyboard then. PS/2 is absolutely not designed to be hot-pluggable.

    The MAZZTer:
    Actually, if you don't have anything plugged into a PS/2 port (keyboard/mouse) on boot, it won't be powered until you power off and on again.

    Some boards may have behaved in this way but definitely not all. Like many people, I didn't know that PS/2 devices must not be hot-plugged and, also like many people, I was lucky enough to get away with the few times that I did connect the cables after turning the machine on without suffering noticeable hardware defects. Ok, a few of my keyboards and mice did break but I'm not sure whether it was PS/2 related or just normal wear. If I remember correctly, after plugging in the mouse while the PC was running, it would not work until the PC was turned off and on again, but the keyboard usually did work, although the repetition rate might have been reset (the default was usually extremely sluggish repetition, and BIOS or DOS increased this rate). This could be fixed with a command-line tool I had from an old DOS system programming book which I think was called PC Intern (but I'm not sure) which would use OUT commands to set the repetition rate on the keyboard's integrated controller. It was that simple back then. No Kernel Mode Driver Framework and Windows Vista x64 Code Signing was required.

  • Maarten (unregistered) in reply to The MAZZTer
    The MAZZTer:
    Actually, if you don't have anything plugged into a PS/2 port (keyboard/mouse) on boot, it won't be powered until you power off and on again.

    I always took the message to mean "If we detected wrong, and you DO have a keyboard plugged in, press F1" and I actually did get this message once or twice when I had a keyboard plugged in.

    That's also untrue. The PS/2 ports are powered even if no devices are connected. In some computers even when the computer is switched of, in order to wake up the computer by pressing a hotkey. What happens is, that some devices won't always properly reset if you hook them up to a computer that's already switched on. Nothing more, nothing less.

  • AdT (unregistered) in reply to Maarten
    Maarten:
    That's logical, because there is no obvious faillure mode in the physical interface that could blow up anything by running high voltages or currents.

    No, it's not logical. According to Wikipedia, PS/2 is designed to directly connect some lines in the mobo's chip to some lines in the keyboard's chip. What this means is that, at least in early versions, any voltage surge that could happen when (un-)plugging the device while the machine was powered on would directly cause an overcurrent in one or the other chip, potentially damaging or destroying it.

    What you are thinking of is probably the later generations of PS/2 where many vendors tried to make things more idiot-proof by adding some surge protection circuitry.

  • operagost (cs) in reply to CoyneT
    CoyneT:
    Jon:
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...

    Erm, no it doesn't - Old-style keyboards (non-usb) are NOT hotswappable so I doubt your bios would tell you to risk frying your board (not that it's very likely).

    There was no point in trying anyway, because even if you didn't fry the keyboard, it wouldn't initialize properly at this point, so the bios wouldn't recognize it anyhow.

    That was only true for some of the early PS/2 boards. The AT keyboard (DIN-5) and very recent PS/2 interfaces DO allow you to plug in after power-up.
  • akatherder (cs)

    Well I can verify that plugging a mouse into a PS/2 port when Windows 95 is booting can definitely hose your motherboard.

    :(

  • slavdude (cs) in reply to H|B
    H|B:
    And who the failure is Pam Tillis?

    http://www.pamtillis.com/

    among others.

    Google is your friend.

  • Renan_S2 (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Why would someone print info that is already available in a text file? Just they are just being a bit more eco-friendly

    And how do you propose to READ the text file when your video card is not working?

    If this was in MS-DOS, TYPE FILE.TXT > LPT1: would do the trick, I think.

  • seymore15074 (cs) in reply to Tp
    Tp:
    The real WTF is that someone voted for Avril Lavigne!

    She's hot. (I'd click it)

  • Reader (unregistered)

    Pretty much every service guide I remember tells you to power down before plugging things in, except for connections that are hot-swappable by design. It's just like ESD safeguards. The instructions get ignored to save time, then we come crying when the circuit fails.

  • EnterUserNameHere (cs) in reply to CynicalTyler
    [image]

    If you are using a notebook it's probable that there is another pointing device (eraser-head or touch pad) that will still allow you to maneuver the cursor. So this isn't THAT bad.

  • misha (cs) in reply to EnterUserNameHere
    EnterUserNameHere:
    [image]

    If you are using a notebook it's probable that there is another pointing device (eraser-head or touch pad) that will still allow you to maneuver the cursor. So this isn't THAT bad.

    Eraser-head? Wow, I've finally found a name for the clit-mouse that isn't rude. Although I doubt anyone here would understand it, since we say rubber*. WTF are you supposed to call those things anyway?

    *FOAF moved from UK to USA as a kid, put hand up in class and said "Miss, do you have a rubber?" :)

  • SomeCoder (unregistered) in reply to misha
    Comment held for moderation.
  • EvanED (cs) in reply to Adhominem
    Adhominem:
    Sigh. I hate that "Press F1 to continue"-joke, because what the message actually means is "Attach keyboard and then press F1 to continue", which makes perfect sense. Now clicking somwhere to connect the mouse...
    ...still makes a little sense. I would strongly suspect that this is for a wireless mouse, and it's quite possible that the user would have a wired mouse sitting around. I know I did, and it got some use when I forgot to charge the wireless one.
    CynicalTyler:
    Actually I believe it's still an onClick event (or whatever Windows calls such things: (me instanceof JavaGuy)) even if it's initiated by a keyboard.

    And this is why normal people hate computers. ;-)

  • misha (cs) in reply to SomeCoder
    SomeCoder:
    Officially, those are called "Trackpoint". I like them better than Touchpads :)

    Agreed. Does anyone else find that the cursor suddenly moves three paragraphs up when you are typing due to touchpads being way too sensitive?

    I think I'm just going to go on calling them clit mice. Mainly because of that old Thinkpad magazine advert.

  • tin (cs)

    What's with all the paranoid "can't hotswap keyboards" people?

    AT keyboards generally went fine, PS/2 keyboards usually do too. I think I've met maybe 2 mobos that I had to reboot in order to get them to detect the keyboard.

    And of one keyboard controller I've killed, it was not due to hotswapping. I managed to hit the chip with a backplate, which killed it good and proper. And said mobo had a good solid run with keyboards being swapped in and out all the time... It was a server, so we rarely needed to use it locally and the keyboard got unplugged to stop the cat trying to log in.

  • Serpardum (cs) in reply to tin

    I started working at one company that had a pc dedicated for tracking their trucks (pre GPS but same method). When I started the PC was not working. I asked someone who was there before me what happened. Seems the company that provided the tracking software came to do do an upgrade and the keyboard became unplugged. So they plugged in back in. And the computer was toast because they didn't turn the PC off first.

  • Stefan W. (unregistered) in reply to Sigivald
    Sigivald:
    Notice the bluetooth logo there?

    That's saying the bluetooth mouse isn't connected.

    Most people using a BT mouse are doing so on a laptop.

    Not on my laptop.

    Sigivald:
    A laptop that has an integrated pointing device, typically a touchpad.
    Which is typically disabled in BIOS if you use an external pointing device, because the reason, installing an external pointing device is: The touchpad is allways in the way, and causing funky text-removings.
    Sigivald:
    Which one could use to click that link, to set up the add-on wireless mouse.
    After rebooting the system, and fiddling with the bios, yes.

    Did someone mention, the percentage-bars for 0% and 2% being of same width, and in no meaningful relation to 11% and 44%?

    Patti Smith clearly deserves more hits.

    Bugs, bugs, coming in from all directions, bugs, bugs...

  • Pete (unregistered)

    Can't say for sure if it's the case with the particular poll in question above, but, the voting system from Big Brother Australia produced similar results.

    Voters can vote for or against the intended target. So if someone's quite hated, then they will get a negative score.

    So, yet again, no WTF. Just the submitter likely not reading how the poll works.

  • lolz (unregistered)
    <script>alert("The real WTF is that I can do this!");</script>
  • <script>alert("The real WTF is that I can do this!");</script> (unregistered) in reply to lolz

    damn.

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