• TheSHEEEP (unregistered)

    Well... ouch. That hurt :(

  • (cs)

    I had a really clever comment, copied from notepad. But it would not paste here after I rebooted my machine, drove home, partied all night, overslept, returned to work with a hang-over.

    FIX THIS BUG FIRST!!!

  • TheSHEEEP (unregistered)

    Also, while that is indeed a tester WTF, it is also an OS WTF.

    No OS I've worked with keeps a history of the clipboard (on Windows I'm 100% sure, on Linux & OSX almost sure). Why? What's so hard about it? I always have to install additional tools for that :/

  • (cs)

    Edge cases. Always be ready for the edge cases.

  • jomp (unregistered)

    It sounds like Mark managed to get Eric to do the testing instead.

  • Forever (unregistered) in reply to TheSHEEEP
    TheSHEEEP:
    Also, while that is indeed a tester WTF, it is also an OS WTF.

    No OS I've worked with keeps a history of the clipboard (on Windows I'm 100% sure, on Linux & OSX almost sure). Why? What's so hard about it? I always have to install additional tools for that :/

    Closed - As Designed

  • profke (unregistered)
    Short Description: Paste not working Summary: I selected some text in Notepad. I went to the application and attempted to paste the text into a text box and nothing happened. And when I look at the Edit menu, the Paste option is greyed out.

    And there, while reading, I was thinking the original missing step was:

    • I just selected some text in notepad
    • [missing] I right-clicked, and selected "copy" [/missing]
    • The "paste" button is grayed out.
  • milliams (unregistered) in reply to TheSHEEEP
    TheSHEEEP:
    Also, while that is indeed a tester WTF, it is also an OS WTF.

    No OS I've worked with keeps a history of the clipboard (on Windows I'm 100% sure, on Linux & OSX almost sure). Why? What's so hard about it? I always have to install additional tools for that :/

    It works fine for me here in KDE Plasma with Klipper. It also stores the last 100 or so entries.

  • anonim (unregistered)

    The final insult is the smiley at the end. I've had my share of totally incompentent, desinterested, useless, rotten, malicious, ignorant, vile and utterly braindead users, and I HATE each and everyone of them. The last one was to summon me to climb 120m into a crane (I do industrial automation) to point out that they need to !fooking! push the reset button in case of a failure before calling me in. And then not a word of apology, or even a polite thank you.

  • faoileag (unregistered)
    the company didn't feel that having dedicated testing resources delivered sufficient benefit for the cost
    That's what interns are for!
    Mark:
    After I shut down your application, I restarted the machine.
    A guy who does not even know that the contents of the clipboard gets lost once he shuts down/reboots his machine is doing front-line support?

    The WTF in the story is obviously Mark, but a company that doesn't see any value in a dedicated QA team and tasks people like Mark with front-line support is definitely a WTF in its own right.

    I hope I'll never have to deal with them/their software...

  • Pippo (unregistered) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    I had a *really* clever comment, copied from notepad. But it would not paste here after I rebooted my machine, drove home, partied all night, overslept, returned to work with a hang-over.

    FIX THIS BUG FIRST!!!

    Closed - work as designed

  • BDX (unregistered)

    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.

  • BDX (unregistered)

    Actually having a customer support guy do the testing seems a sensible solution. Those in CS know all kind of WTFeries users go trought.

  • (cs) in reply to BDX
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.

    This is one of the things that keeps me away from other OS's not Linux. I simply don't use Ctrl-C + Ctrl+V.

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to BDX
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.
    How many times I cursed at a windows application, when, after having some text selected with the mouse, it did not appear in a textbox after pressing the middle key of the mouse!
  • ZoomST (unregistered)

    TRWTF: <<... Slowly and deliberately Mark moved the mouse over to the Status combo box for the bug, opened up the options and selected "Closed - As Designed".>> So Mark was changing the status... meanwhile Eric was feeling pity for Mark. Sounds like psychic abilities for me.

  • (cs) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.
    How many times I cursed at a windows application, when, after having some text selected with the mouse, it did not appear in a textbox after pressing the middle key of the mouse!
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard. Maybe I just wanted it selected so I could delete it, or turn it bold, or some such, not because I wanted it in the clipboard (and also I wanted to keep around what was already in the clipboard).

    And there are other issues surrounding that, like the twisty-passaged management of clipboards, X selections, and kill rings in GNU Emacs. Twisty-passaged bollocks that manage to change in odd ways between versions. (I still haven't got it behaving correctly since my last update about a month ago.)

  • QJo (unregistered) in reply to BDX
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.

    TRWTF is that Mark did not make any attempt to retry his copy/paste action before raising a ticket.

    Any fule kno you're got to reproduce your bug before reporting it. You never know, you may just have fumbled the buttons first time round.

  • scotty (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.
    How many times I cursed at a windows application, when, after having some text selected with the mouse, it did not appear in a textbox after pressing the middle key of the mouse!

    How many times have I cursed at a windows computer, when, after picking up the mouse as saying "Hello Computer" I get no response

  • A tester (unregistered)

    Software tester here. I'm probably going to circulate this story among the other testers where I work - it's a good lesson in work ethic, bug report writing, attention to detail, AND compassion for the developer.

    However, the suggestions to get interns or customer service people to do your testing will probably generate more stories like the one above. Good testers have a a particular mindset (they're like truffle-sniffing dogs when it comes to bugs), they pay attention to even insignificant details, and they write well. They should also be capable of learning something about the underlying technology - full-time testers who don't want to learn how to write simple SQL queries should probably be in another business.

    Another critical item: they have empathy for the end user AND for the other people on the development team. And many are born contrarians.

    Not to say that you couldn't find some of these qualities in an intern or CS person, but you probably won't find all of them.

  • (cs) in reply to Steve The Cynic
    Steve The Cynic:
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard. Maybe I just wanted it selected so I could delete it, or turn it bold, or some such, not because I wanted it in the clipboard (and also I wanted to keep around what was already in the clipboard)

    But there's two clipboards, last time I used Linux on the desktop: one using just copy on select/paste on middle click and the other using Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V. So you get the best of both worlds, for the most part.

    I seem to remember MS Office having 10+ clipboards, damned if anyone figured out how to use them!

  • C10B (unregistered)

    boring, fake, pointless story. WTF should stand for WHY.T.F do I keep coming back here!?

  • joeb (unregistered)

    College vs tech school?

    Some with just theory may think that clip board does not reset after a reboot. But some with more a hands on / more learning on windows likely would know that. also in os's like Linux the clipboard can't get cleared when you quit an app.

  • (cs) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    Steve The Cynic:
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard. Maybe I just wanted it selected so I could delete it, or turn it bold, or some such, not because I wanted it in the clipboard (and also I wanted to keep around what was already in the clipboard)

    But there's two clipboards, last time I used Linux on the desktop: one using just copy on select/paste on middle click and the other using Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V. So you get the best of both worlds, for the most part.

    I seem to remember MS Office having 10+ clipboards, damned if anyone figured out how to use them!

    Yes, there are two clipboards. One for selection and another for Ctrl+C so this is not an issue.

  • ZoomST (unregistered)

    <<... Slowly and deliberately Eric moved the mouse over to the Status combo box for the bug, opened up the options and selected "Closed - As Designed". A couple of minutes after that, the phone rang. "Hey Eric! Mark here. Did I tell you about the Vice President's daughter sickness?">> Better.

  • (cs) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    But there's two clipboards, last time I used Linux on the desktop: one using just copy on select/paste on middle click and the other using Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V. So you get the best of both worlds, for the most part.
    Actually, there's an arbitrary number of them (as many as you have unique names for) but the ones that are commonly used are PRIMARY (mostly used for tracking normal mouse selections) and CLIPBOARD (for classic Copy/Cut/Paste activity). These days, I tend to recommend not using PRIMARY either, with apps having just their own internal notion of what is selected rather than a global one.
  • (cs) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    Steve The Cynic:
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard. Maybe I just wanted it selected so I could delete it, or turn it bold, or some such, not because I wanted it in the clipboard (and also I wanted to keep around what was already in the clipboard)

    But there's two clipboards, last time I used Linux on the desktop: one using just copy on select/paste on middle click and the other using Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V. So you get the best of both worlds, for the most part.

    I seem to remember MS Office having 10+ clipboards, damned if anyone figured out how to use them!

    Technically no, there's only one clipboard in an X-windows system. You put stuff there by selecting text and then issuing the "Copy" or "Cut" command (however that's done - right-click menu, top-of-window Edit menu, Ctrl+C/Ctrl+X, or even if your application is sufficiently arcane about these things Ctrl+Insert/Shift+Delete). The other "clipboard" is not a clipboard. It's the X selection, and you put stuff there by selecting text with a mouse-drag.

    Conundrum: If you mouse-drag to select text to be put in the real clipboard, (click-drag-release, Ctrl+C) you also put it in the X selection. To only affect the real clipboard, you must shift-arrow to select the text to be copied/cut.

    And all that assumes that the application is correctly configured, which my Emacs was, but now is not, and all I did was upgrade it, so of course it had subtle but drastically destructive effects on my workflow. (Before you ask, I can reach the Ctrl key perfectly well, so I don't need to overheat the CPU.)

    Conclusion: clipboard handling is a WTF on any platform. And so is GNU Emacs.

    (EDIT: yes, I did sort of know about the other proper clipboards, and the X selection isn't any of them)

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to A tester
    A tester:
    Software tester here ... However, the suggestions to get interns ... to do your testing will probably generate more stories like the one above
    Oops, sorry, that was meant as irony :-(
  • Shoreline (unregistered) in reply to profke
    profke:
    And there, while reading, I was thinking the original missing step was:
    • I just selected some text in notepad
    • [missing] I right-clicked, and selected "copy" [/missing]
    • The "paste" button is grayed out.

    Me too. I guess the failure to comprehend how the clipboard works covers both cases.

    I find a surprising amount of "doesn't work" disappears when a "show me" is requested. That said, some of these can be intermittent.

  • (cs) in reply to Zemm
    Zemm:
    Steve The Cynic:
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard. Maybe I just wanted it selected so I could delete it, or turn it bold, or some such, not because I wanted it in the clipboard (and also I wanted to keep around what was already in the clipboard)

    But there's two clipboards, last time I used Linux on the desktop: one using just copy on select/paste on middle click and the other using Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V. So you get the best of both worlds, for the most part.

    One problem is that the middle-click-paste behaviour has the side effect of only allowing one selected text in the entire X desktop. So usage patterns common to other OSes like "paste to replace the selection" do not work.

    The middle-click itself has some problems with applications which autoselect the text in a given field (try middle-click-paste a URL into a browser address bar). The fact that it pastes at the mouse cursor position instead of the text cursor position is also quite irritating because you cannot be completely sure where the pasted text will be inserted. Unfortunately there are still some Linux applications which do not provide support for Ctrl-C/Ctrl-V.

  • (cs) in reply to TheSHEEEP
    TheSHEEEP:
    Also, while that is indeed a tester WTF, it is also an OS WTF.

    No OS I've worked with keeps a history of the clipboard (on Windows I'm 100% sure, on Linux & OSX almost sure). Why? What's so hard about it? I always have to install additional tools for that :/

    I am agreeing with you, but think about this a bit more with logic. You need OS to clear memory after you have SHUTDOWN. ROM and RAM are 2 different animals.

    Some nuisance causing character will create a virus otherwise that will stay forever in your computer sending spam mails to grow hair, lose weight, win lottery and increase length of your private parts.

  • C-Derb (unregistered) in reply to A tester
    A tester:
    Software tester here. I'm probably going to circulate this story among the other testers where I work - it's a good lesson in work ethic, bug report writing, attention to detail, AND compassion for the developer.

    However, the suggestions to get interns or customer service people to do your testing will probably generate more stories like the one above. Good testers have a a particular mindset (they're like truffle-sniffing dogs when it comes to bugs), they pay attention to even insignificant details, and they write well. They should also be capable of learning something about the underlying technology - full-time testers who don't want to learn how to write simple SQL queries should probably be in another business.

    Another critical item: they have empathy for the end user AND for the other people on the development team. And many are born contrarians.

    Not to say that you couldn't find some of these qualities in an intern or CS person, but you probably won't find all of them.

    I would give up 10% of my salary to work with one of these so-called "Good Testers". In my experience, they are very few and very far between. Most testers are like Mark. People who don't think on a larger scale. People who simply log a bug without thinking, "Let's see if the Paste option behaves similarly in, oh I don't know, Microsoft Word if I copy some text and then reboot my machine.....Oh, yep, same behavior. Definitely not a bug."

    The idea of testers getting to know the underlying technology is a pipe dream. For example, the testers I work with now get so hung up on issues that "look wonky" because they are testing with our "test" database that has a few records that are complete crap. But that doesn't mean that I get to avoid being interrupted 4 times a day to re-explain where the data is coming from and why it looks that way and how you could verify this for your retarded self!

    The very thought, "Gee, this page looks correct for all ten of these scenarios except the last one...I bet it is a data issue, I'm going to go verify" just never seems to enter their heads. So much easier to just log a bug.

  • (cs) in reply to renewest
    renewest:
    Edge cases. Always be ready for the edge cases.
    This. And in Mark's case, the edge he should be concerned with is that of a knife in Eric's hands.

    Mark is the reason front line techs are so despised.

  • David (unregistered) in reply to Steve The Cynic
    Steve The Cynic:
    It's not inherently desirable that selecting text will automatically and silently destroy the contents of the clipboard.

    There are two clipboards, if you know how to use them what you describe won't be a problem. That said it is twice as much clipboard to learn.

  • ¯\(°_o)/¯ I DUNNO LOL (unregistered)

    Once there was a guy who had a problem with his clipboard. So he added a second clipboard. Then he had two problems.

  • Cujo (unregistered)

    Did they forget to mention the step about the power outage or the plug being pulled from the wall too? I can happily duplicate the latter on their machine so I can strangle them with the cord.

    Captcha: ullamcorper

  • Wody (unregistered)

    These bugs are very common! The daily WTF has it too! After I turn off my computer, it disappears not just from my monitor, but from my browser too, and nothing I click or mash on the keyboard will get it back! Fix it TDWTF!

    Captcha: cogo. A place faraway that these users should be.

  • Nick (unregistered)

    Did I forget to mention the step where I went onto a completely different computer to paste?

    captcha: sagaciter - someone who quotes from epic poems

  • trtrwtf (unregistered) in reply to scotty
    scotty:
    faoileag:
    BDX:
    Linux user here... How many times I cursed a windows application for the paste command being greyed out, before realizing I just forgot to copy.
    How many times I cursed at a windows application, when, after having some text selected with the mouse, it did not appear in a textbox after pressing the middle key of the mouse!

    How many times have I cursed at a windows computer, when, after picking up the mouse as saying "Hello Computer" I get no response

    How many times have I cursed at a Douglas Engelbart for popularizing that exquisite little torture machine that we call the mouse?

  • QJo (unregistered) in reply to C-Derb
    C-Derb:
    A tester:
    Software tester here. I'm probably going to circulate this story among the other testers where I work - it's a good lesson in work ethic, bug report writing, attention to detail, AND compassion for the developer.

    However, the suggestions to get interns or customer service people to do your testing will probably generate more stories like the one above. Good testers have a a particular mindset (they're like truffle-sniffing dogs when it comes to bugs), they pay attention to even insignificant details, and they write well. They should also be capable of learning something about the underlying technology - full-time testers who don't want to learn how to write simple SQL queries should probably be in another business.

    Another critical item: they have empathy for the end user AND for the other people on the development team. And many are born contrarians.

    Not to say that you couldn't find some of these qualities in an intern or CS person, but you probably won't find all of them.

    I would give up 10% of my salary to work with one of these so-called "Good Testers". In my experience, they are very few and very far between. Most testers are like Mark. People who don't think on a larger scale. People who simply log a bug without thinking, "Let's see if the Paste option behaves similarly in, oh I don't know, Microsoft Word if I copy some text and then reboot my machine.....Oh, yep, same behavior. Definitely not a bug."

    The idea of testers getting to know the underlying technology is a pipe dream. For example, the testers I work with now get so hung up on issues that "look wonky" because they are testing with our "test" database that has a few records that are complete crap. But that doesn't mean that I get to avoid being interrupted 4 times a day to re-explain where the data is coming from and why it looks that way and how you could verify this for your retarded self!

    The very thought, "Gee, this page looks correct for all ten of these scenarios except the last one...I bet it is a data issue, I'm going to go verify" just never seems to enter their heads. So much easier to just log a bug.

    After it has happened the second time, you take steps to amend the test database so that it no longer contains wonky records.

    The superior mandarin writes a test case in an automatic regression test procedure to handle this wonky data gracefully. If your testers are mere button-pushers, replace them with a test script written in, for example, Selenium. You will a) have a somewhat more reliable test process, b) have a more-or-less robust technique for ascertaining that your latest build still works the same (but for the required amendments) as the previous build, and c) you'll start to attract some test engineers with brains.

  • Another tester (unregistered) in reply to A tester
    They should also be capable of learning something about the underlying technology - full-time testers who don't want to learn how to write simple SQL queries should probably be in another business.

    Actually, in this day and age you should be learning to code - at least well enough to automate, but preferably to a level where staying in testing is a choice. Quite apart from the fact that going from manual tester to SDET is a very easy way to double your salary, there are a hell of a lot of Indians who can tick boxes on an Excel spreadsheet just as well as you can.

  • Another tester (unregistered) in reply to C-Derb
    In my experience, they are very few and very far between

    Not surprising. If you're intelligent, capable and have the right mindset to be a good tester ("here's a system - what are the flaws and loopholes") there are a hell of a lot better ways to earn a living. Tax law, for a start.

  • IN-HOUSE-CHAMP (unregistered) in reply to joeb
    joeb:
    College vs tech school?

    Some with just theory may think that clip board does not reset after a reboot. But some with more a hands on / more learning on windows likely would know that. also in os's like Linux the clipboard can't get cleared when you quit an app.

    Sonny, you come here for chit-chat. Let's face it, all of us commenting over here have plenty of time in our projects.

  • (cs)

    TRWTF is closing it with "As designed" instead of with "Invalid"

  • Alan (unregistered)

    Our devs like to use "Closed - As Designed" when they just don't want to document it. This at least seems like a better reason than that.

  • Sylwester (unregistered)

    The real WTF is that there is not copy on select in Notepad :-)

  • Calli Arcale (unregistered)

    For those who think Mark's an idiot and wonder why Eric has sympathy for him, I think the underlying notion is that Mark has spent so much time dealing with the worst of the worst on front-line support that the stupidity of his users has melted his brain and replaced a significant portion of it with itself. Thus is the fate of all those consigned to his dreadful task, and though his bug reports make us roll our eyes, we must yet have pity for him as there but for the grace of upper management go we.....

  • radarbob (unregistered)
    the company didn't feel that having dedicated testing resources delivered sufficient benefit for the cost.

    And they were right. Self fulfilling prophecy.

  • (cs)

    In Windows, you can use a program like CLCL.

  • n_slash_a (unregistered) in reply to TheSHEEEP
    TheSHEEEP:
    Also, while that is indeed a tester WTF, it is also an OS WTF.

    No OS I've worked with keeps a history of the clipboard (on Windows I'm 100% sure, on Linux & OSX almost sure). Why? What's so hard about it? I always have to install additional tools for that :/

    No, TRWTF is that he closed the ticket with the status "Closed - As Designed" when he really should have closed the ticket with "Closed - Out of Scope", as this would be an OS issue and not an application issue.

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