• Sabre (unregistered) in reply to fasterthanilook
    fasterthanilook:
    Story 3: Sounds like a good place for an analogy the interviewer could actually understand... "This test is to see how well I use the tools of my trade. In effect, you have sat me down in front of a pile of scrap wood and asked me to build a box - with no hammer, no nails, no tools of any kind. Not a good way to see how well I use tools, is it?"

    I disagree. He was given the materials to build the box. He just wasn't given the specifications of what would go into the box or the location of those items. But that shouldn't matter when building a box; you can still build a box without knowing what will go into it. It might not be the right box when the time comes to actually put things into it, but it is a box nonetheless.

    He could have built the menu and had it give an error when no database was found. In fact, he could have even written a SQL script that will build the objects he expects to be present. Then tell the boss "It's done, but you need to set up a database to run it."

  • dtfhg (unregistered)

    it's quite obvious they wanted him to program his own database engine to. I mean why pay for the license for MSSQL?

  • brian j. parker (unregistered)

    The scenario I imagine for #2 is that the candidate was already on "stress leave" or unemployment and collecting money from the company, so someone in HR was feeling the heat to place her anywhere. The candidate, on the other hand, had to make some show of attempting to get a new job.

    I'm glad unemployment exists for those who catch an unlucky break, but there will always be people who try to abuse any system.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to CoderDan
    CoderDan:
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.

    Especially since race was never mentioned, nor can it be implied or assumed by the story. Reminds me of a WTF I'll post one of these days.

    Affirmative action does not just apply to racial minorities. It also applies to women and people with disabilities and probably other categories that I'm forgetting.

    I'm still holding out for getting "balding old Norwegian men" added as a category.

  • Jay (unregistered)

    On #1, it wouldn't particularly bother me if the person who called to set up an interview didn't know anything about the job. Maybe he or she is a receptionist or an HR person or in general someone who was just told, "Call the people on this list and set up interviews".

    Now, when he arrived for the interview and the person who was supposed to interview him couldn't be found, that was a problem. If I was in that position and the company later called me back and apologized for the mix-up and arranged another interview, I probably wouldn't write them off for that but I'd certainly take their disorganization into consideration.

  • Paul (unregistered)
    "I get paid. If you expect me to deal with all that computer shit, I'll go off on stress leave and sue you."
    Look, instead of agonizing our way through this little by little, why don't we as a society just go for broke and get it over with:

    1. Everybody gets a government check for ten million dollars. Doesn't matter who you are or what you do. Equality uber alles.

    2. If anybody still wants a job after #1, you're entitled to work anyplace you like and they have to pay you exactly the same amount as everybody else. Your "job" will consist of socializing all day or watching youtube or whatever else you feel like doing. Everybody must be nice to you, unless you smile at a cute girl/hunky guy. Nobody will have a boss.

    Oh yes, and...

    1. Every penny you make, no matter how, will be taxed and the country will still go broke. But who cares, we'll all be rich and lazy!
  • Jay (unregistered)

    Hey, on the serious side, when a company asks you very early in the discussion how much you expect to be paid, what do you say?

    Any time I've worked with an employment agency they've always told me not to give a straight answer to that question. But I wonder. I mean, if the company expects to pay someone, whatever, $40,000 a year, and you are looking for $50,000, I'd think they'd be willing to talk to you and see if you're good enough to be worth pushing their budget. But if you wouldn't take a job for less than $100,000 and there's no way they're going to pay that much, isn't it just wasting both of your time to go through the whole interview process? Unless there's some reason to believe that they could be so impressed by your abilities that they will pay way more than they planned, or that you will be so impressed with how much fun this job sounds like that you will be willing to work for much less than you originally planned, what's the point?

    On the flip side, if they are expecting to pay $100,000 and you say you will work for $20,000 ... well, if I was the interviewer in that case, I would be wondering if you are just a great bargain for some reason -- like maybe you're living off your billionaire uncle's trust fund and so you really don't need the money or something -- or if someone willing to work for that little must really not be qualified for the job.

    I've only once had such a situation come up where I was on the hiring side: We were hiring a software tester, and someone applied who asked for half what we were willing to pay. We interviewed him and he sounded quite capable, so my boss quietly told him what number to change the expected salary before turning the form in to HR. (We ultimately hired him and he turned out to be one of the best testers we ever had.)

  • Sue (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Something is missing from the 2nd one. I was expecting it to turn out that the candidate was the HR directors wife/mistress/daughter/niece/third cousin twice removed. There must be some reason the HR director was so adamant that they be interviewed.
    Because she threatened to sue if she wasn't interviewed. And the HR department lives and breathes for one reason and one reason only: to avoid being sued.
  • Buffled (unregistered) in reply to Pop ulus
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.
    Tim Wise is the worst kind of racist - the kind that holds his own race in contempt.
  • Obama (unregistered) in reply to Paul

    That's what we are trying to do here in the US!

  • Adam (unregistered) in reply to friedo
    friedo:
    There are people (some right here on TDWTF) who insist that the word "database" has only one definition: an ATOM-compliant relational database management system.

    Those people are generally no fun at parties.

    There are some people who claim that a "party" can be any loosely structured gathering of casual associates for mutual merriment, but they clearly haven't studied the subject as thoroughly as I have. According to my research (all online from my mom's basement of course) a true party should include all of the following elements:

    • Crepe paper streamers
    • Balloons
    • Cake and ice cream
    • Pin the tail on the donkey
    • Strippers

    If absolutely necessary for cost reduction, the first four items may be omitted.

    If any other experts have additional material, please include a verifiable citation to a reputable source.

  • (cs) in reply to me

    TRWTF is me. :(

  • (cs) in reply to me
    me:
    friedo:
    Steve:
    Some Wonk:
    <troll>But...XML IS a database, isn't it?</troll>
    Of sorts, yes. Not sure what the troll tags were for, your basic assertion is accurate. A piece of paper can be a database, after all.

    There are people (some right here on TDWTF) who insist that the word "database" has only one definition: an ATOM-compliant relational database management system.

    Those people are generally no fun at parties.

    What does atom mean? Obviously you didn't mean ACID or else you would have said so, right?

    CAPTCHA:populus -- as in populous?

    TRWTF is me. :(

  • guest (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Something is missing from the 2nd one. I was expecting it to turn out that the candidate was the HR directors wife/mistress/daughter/niece/third cousin twice removed. There must be some reason the HR director was so adamant that they be interviewed.

    I thought that they might have to interview her just to make it look like they were an equal opportunity employer. Maybe they hadn't interviewed enough females lately and they wanted to get that number up.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    "An SQL database", not "A SQL database".

  • Peter (unregistered) in reply to anon
    anon:
    Actually, I would claim that anyone who has an opinion on what is or is not a database and likes to discuss that opinion is generally no fun at parties.
    Oh, I don't know about that. Of course, the sort of fun that you can have with those people is akin to the sort of fun you can have poking an ill-tempered dog with a stick. Not something that I enjoy, you understand, but judging by posters on this very website, I may be in a minority.
  • Machtyn (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    "An SQL database", not "A SQL database".
    Depends on how you pronounce it: S-Q-L or "sequel".
  • noland (unregistered) in reply to Some Wonk
    Some Wonk:
    <troll>But...XML IS a database, isn't it?</troll>
    <obligatory>But not on an embedded system.</obligatory>
  • The Nerve (unregistered) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    CoderDan:
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.

    Especially since race was never mentioned, nor can it be implied or assumed by the story. Reminds me of a WTF I'll post one of these days.

    Affirmative action does not just apply to racial minorities. It also applies to women and people with disabilities and probably other categories that I'm forgetting.

    I'm still holding out for getting "balding old Norwegian men" added as a category.

    Right, affirmative action is for women and other "minorities."

  • Knux2 (unregistered) in reply to Adam
    Adam:
    friedo:
    There are people (some right here on TDWTF) who insist that the word "database" has only one definition: an ATOM-compliant relational database management system.

    Those people are generally no fun at parties.

    There are some people who claim that a "party" can be any loosely structured gathering of casual associates for mutual merriment, but they clearly haven't studied the subject as thoroughly as I have. According to my research (all online from my mom's basement of course) a true party should include all of the following elements:

    • Crepe paper streamers
    • Balloons
    • Cake and ice cream
    • Pin the tail on the donkey
    • Strippers

    If absolutely necessary for cost reduction, the first four items may be omitted.

    If any other experts have additional material, please include a verifiable citation to a reputable source.

    LOL

  • (cs)

    Command Center Administrator

    Required skills: Knows most popular build orders. 120+ APM. Firsthand experience with SCV management.

    [image]
  • Schnapple (unregistered) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    On the flip side, if they are expecting to pay $100,000 and you say you will work for $20,000 ...
    Which is why the adage goes: whoever mentions a number first loses.
  • Worf (unregistered) in reply to Brother Laz
    Brother Laz:
    Command Center Administrator

    Required skills: Knows most popular build orders. 120+ APM. Firsthand experience with SCV management.

    That's for the n00bs. Real Command Center Admins need a minimum 300+ APM. (yes, there's a video showing the screen and keyboard).

    120APM. pfft.

  • (cs) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    Cbuttius:
    You're hired!

    More accurately: Leave your source code. We'll review it (read: immediately start using it in production), and get back to you (read: thanks for solving our problem -- don't expect to hear from us ever again).

    To be even more accurate, let's skip forward about half an hour to the next candidate who came in to interview for the same job...

    "So, here is some sample code for a web site with a menu. How would you extend this to provide these two features?"

    And then the next afternoon, when it's time for another interview...

    "I have prepared a simple application with some obvious bugs. How many can you find and how would you fix them?"

    Because actually paying consultants is something that other people do.

  • dnm (unregistered) in reply to Peter
    Peter:
    It was Krishna from ACME COMMERCE. "Very nice résumé," she said
    Krishna was a woman? That must have been a bit disconcerting, rather like finding yourself talking to a woman called Zeus or Odin. Or, for that matter, a man called Parvati or Hera.
    Krishna can be a woman
  • (cs) in reply to Pop ulus
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.
    Try thinking for yourself before you level personal attacks at someone you don't know, you presumptive cretin.

    Misuse of affirmative action often results in bringing in woefully under qualified (in this example, quite an understatement) candidates in order to satisfy a policy, usually a racial, nationality, or gender quota.

    Notice that we don't know whether the candidate fell into any of these categories, except possibly the last being that women are still generally under represented in IT.

  • (cs)

    And if anyone else flames me on this stupid topic, I'm going on stress leave and GETTIN' PAID.

  • ell0bo (unregistered) in reply to Craig

    I work there... nice place. But where this command center is... I have no idea. I am now going to explore.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Machtyn
    Machtyn:
    Anonymous:
    "An SQL database", not "A SQL database".
    Depends on how you pronounce it: S-Q-L or "sequel".

    Right, it's a sequel database or an es-que-el database.

  • (cs) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    And if anyone else flames me on this stupid topic, I'm going on stress leave and GETTIN' PAID.
    For 40%, I'm going to flame.
  • somename (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Machtyn:
    Anonymous:
    "An SQL database", not "A SQL database".
    Depends on how you pronounce it: S-Q-L or "sequel".

    Right, it's a sequel database or an es-que-el database.

    but sequel databases are never as good as the first one...

  • AT (unregistered) in reply to CoderDan
    CoderDan:
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.

    Especially since race was never mentioned, nor can it be implied or assumed by the story. Reminds me of a WTF I'll post one of these days.

    Captcha: erat ... the mountain where Noah left his ark

    Almost certainly affirmative action. You must have no idea how sensitive US companies are about the fact that they can't interview and hire enough black candidates in technical positions. And justifiably so since there are more than a few race-mongering shakedown artists trolling for potential discrimination lawsuits based on little more than worker vs general population racial composition. The more than 100 developer interviews I've conducted over the past 14 years included exactly ONE black candidate (who I hired because he was damn good). You can put whatever explanation you want on those stats, but they make the HR departments of hyper-race conscious US companies very uneasy.

  • blunder (unregistered) in reply to Sabre
    Sabre:
    I disagree. He was given the materials to build the box. He just wasn't given the specifications of what would go into the box or the location of those items. But that shouldn't matter when building a box; you can still build a box without knowing what will go into it. It might not be the right box when the time comes to actually put things into it, but it is a box nonetheless.

    He could have built the menu and had it give an error when no database was found. In fact, he could have even written a SQL script that will build the objects he expects to be present. Then tell the boss "It's done, but you need to set up a database to run it."

    As it turns out, my company has a position open and we think you'd do great. Why don't you come down for an interview? Also if you have a couple of SQL Server CALs you wouldn't mind sparing, it might put us into the hiring mood, if you know what I mean.

  • jdw (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    I have to say I quite enjoy interviewing idiots. Whenever we have a hiring round and start receiving resumes I always choose one or two of the "no-hopers" to come in for interview in addition to the real candidates, just to lighten things up. It can be pretty intense interviewing for senior technical positions, especially if you have to do it all day for a week solid. It's a lot easier if you intersperse the real candidates with the odd joker - you can forget about the technical discussions and just laugh at a hopelessly underskilled moron for half an hour. It's cathartic.

    Some of the other folks in my office think this is a bit mean but as I explain to them, I don't feel bad about wasting the candidate's time because they wasted my time by applying for a job that they were woefully underqualified for.

    For what it's worth, it's quite possible that some of these wasted your time by applying because of unemployment requirements. God knows I applied for jobs I wasn't even close to qualified for while I was unemployed last year.

  • BearGriz72 (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    Ding I was thinking the exact same thing!!

  • CoderDan (unregistered) in reply to AT
    AT:
    CoderDan:
    Pop ulus:
    No, that isn't Affirmative Action. At all. Read some Tim Wise before you make an ass out of yourself again.

    Especially since race was never mentioned, nor can it be implied or assumed by the story. Reminds me of a WTF I'll post one of these days.

    Captcha: erat ... the mountain where Noah left his ark

    Almost certainly affirmative action. You must have no idea how sensitive US companies are about the fact that they can't interview and hire enough black candidates in technical positions. And justifiably so since there are more than a few race-mongering shakedown artists trolling for potential discrimination lawsuits based on little more than worker vs general population racial composition. The more than 100 developer interviews I've conducted over the past 14 years included exactly ONE black candidate (who I hired because he was damn good). You can put whatever explanation you want on those stats, but they make the HR departments of hyper-race conscious US companies very uneasy.

    I stand by my original statement. How many think of AA and think of women or those with disabilities? Very few! So when someone says 'affirmative action', it is almost always to imply 'that [black|hispanic] person got the job because of their color'.

    Am I wrong? In conducting 1,200+ interviews I would tend to say no. As for gender, there is a strong skewing of man vs. woman.

    Captcha: illum -- Former Hobbit

  • sheldon (unregistered) in reply to CoderDan
    CoderDan:
    I stand by my original statement. How many think of AA and think of women or those with disabilities? Very few!
    So you call the guy an ass twice, the first time without even knowing what he meant, the second time despite him telling you exactly what he meant, just because for somebody else affirmative action means black/hispanic people? Wow, that a great way to combat stereotyping...
  • Veldan (unregistered) in reply to Peter
    Peter:
    Amar:
    May be her name was Krishnapriya or Krishnaveni. Krishna itself is a female name in some parts of India - where the real Krishna is called Krishnan.
    Ah, thank you. I didn't know that. Live and learn!

    <Joke> OH MY GOD! a humble person! on the daily WTF! Not some pretentious d**k who tries to argue the point well past the realm of their knowledge! </ Joke>

    Seriously though, i think you're the first person I've seen on this site that was happy to be corrected. Go you! :D

  • Veldan (unregistered) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    Some Wonk:
    <troll>But...XML IS a database, isn't it?</troll>
    Of sorts, yes. Not sure what the troll tags were for, your basic assertion is accurate. A piece of paper can be a database, after all.

    Don't feed the trolls.

  • Veldan (unregistered) in reply to Paul
    Paul:
    "I get paid. If you expect me to deal with all that computer shit, I'll go off on stress leave and sue you."
    Look, instead of agonizing our way through this little by little, why don't we as a society just go for broke and get it over with:

    1. Everybody gets a government check for ten million dollars. Doesn't matter who you are or what you do. Equality uber alles.

    2. If anybody still wants a job after #1, you're entitled to work anyplace you like and they have to pay you exactly the same amount as everybody else. Your "job" will consist of socializing all day or watching youtube or whatever else you feel like doing. Everybody must be nice to you, unless you smile at a cute girl/hunky guy. Nobody will have a boss.

    Oh yes, and...

    1. Every penny you make, no matter how, will be taxed and the country will still go broke. But who cares, we'll all be rich and lazy!

    I love you.

  • WiredEarp (unregistered) in reply to Buffled

    If thats the worst type of rascist, I must be even worse. I hold the entire HUMAN race in contempt.

    To analyze your statement however, are yo saying even if your own race IS contemptible, its racist to state the fact? I don't think you have thought the implications of your post through fully.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Machtyn:
    Anonymous:
    "An SQL database", not "A SQL database".
    Depends on how you pronounce it: S-Q-L or "sequel".

    Right, it's a sequel database or an es-que-el database.

    You have to say it as if you were elongating the acronym.

    A server query language database. An server query language database.

    Obviously "A" is correct.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    Structured even....

    eros - Two errors in one. Go me!

  • (cs)

    "internets explorer" would make me throw out a resume too.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to CoderDan
    CoderDan:

    I stand by my original statement. How many think of AA and think of women or those with disabilities? Very few! So when someone says 'affirmative action', it is almost always to imply 'that [black|hispanic] person got the job because of their color'.

    Am I wrong? In conducting 1,200+ interviews I would tend to say no. As for gender, there is a strong skewing of man vs. woman.

    Captcha: illum -- Former Hobbit

    Very Very wrong. Most people think of AA as that whiny PITA crap we all have to deal with because not enough insert non-middle class white male group here aren't getting an equal opportunity.

    letatio - the ratio of Latinos in a company.

  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    You have to say it as if you were elongating the acronym.

    A server query language database. An server query language database.

    Obviously "A" is correct.

    Obviously, both are incorrect. Structured, not server.

  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    A server query language database.

    I always thought SQL stood for Structured Query Language.

  • (cs) in reply to Brother Laz
    Brother Laz:
    Command Center Administrator

    Required skills: Knows most popular build orders. 120+ APM. Firsthand experience with SCV management.

    http://www.starcraftii.cz/wp-content/gallery/terran-buildings-command-center/terran_buildings_Command-Center_2.jpg

    The SCVs wouldn't last long against the Zerg. They needed a new Command Center Administrator. But the Zerg attacked, and their applicant never heard from them again.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Consultant Zero
    Consultant Zero:
    Anon:
    You have to say it as if you were elongating the acronym.

    A server query language database. An server query language database.

    Obviously "A" is correct.

    Obviously, both are incorrect. Structured, not server.

    Sorry guys, already beat you to the punch and corrected myself =P

    jugis - biggest breasts of them all

  • Mike (unregistered) in reply to vt_mruhlin
    vt_mruhlin:
    Third guy has never heard of SQLite?

    Even text files would have sufficed to demonstrate the concept.

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