• RBoy (unregistered) in reply to DaarkWing
    DaarkWing:
    I agree that lunch and learns can be a valuable learning tool. My previous company had them once or twice a month.

    If they are important enough to the company, they are important enough to be done 'on the clock'.

    That's what my company does.

  • Calli Arcale (unregistered) in reply to Derek
    Derek:
    The biggest problem with this is the fact that a free lunch was given away. Don't even offer lunch. Encourage employees to self-improve and those that want to will. It would be helpful if it was during paid time as well rather than at lunch.

    Where I work, the free lunch thing is precisely why it's "brown bag" -- if you go, it is purely on your own recognizance. No one is recompensing you in any way. My only problem with the "brown-bag" presentation is that some seem to see them as a way of reducing training expenses, and that's a bad long-term strategy for the company. It shouldn't replace training; it should supplement it.

  • J (unregistered)

    Wow. Not learning from mistakes. Don't have the pizza there at there start. Maybe somebody might actually learn something first and really want to stay for more than the pizza.

  • Ephemeriis (unregistered) in reply to Voodoo Coder
    Voodoo Coder:
    RBoy:
    The problem with Lunch & Learns is that when I'm on lunch, I spend my hour trying to forget that I have to go back to work in a bit.

    You might as well make me come in on a Saturday morning for a meeting while you're at it.

    Maybe, consider a different line of work...?

    Not saying that you need to be all "YAY WORK!" about it, but dreading going back to work sounds like an abysmal life to me. Personally, I read stuff like Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete on my lunch (tried doing it at night, before bed...but found that heavy reading before sleep made for bizarre dreams and forgotten material).

    I don't know any GOOD developers who would oppose free pizza AND a chance to get better at their trade. Plenty of crappy ones, sure. Good ones...none.

    I do plenty of work-related reading on my off-time... But that's more-or-less by choice. On my own time. When I feel like it. When life allows. And when I find it interesting.

    In the middle of the day, while taking a much-needed break from whatever I'm in the middle of, the last thing I want to do is spend an hour learning better practices.

    I want to take a few minutes to relax, enjoy my lunch, catch up on personal email, whatever.

    Maybe if it were scheduled for first thing in the morning, before I'm neck-deep in projects...

  • SomeCoder (unregistered)

    While some people may be able to crank out code for 22 hours straight each day, not everyone is like that and those of us who aren't are probably having to follow behind and clean up the coding abortions these people make when they don't take breaks (I'm on a project right now that may be a by-product of this).

    I find my mind to be refreshed after taking a break and I can usually solve problems much quicker. Sometimes it helps to just leave a problem open until tomorrow and usually I can come back in and see the solution immediately the next morning.

    Not wanting to sacrifice a lunch break is not a sign of unwillingness to learn, it's a sign that we are humans and require rest and nourishment to continue living.

  • (cs) in reply to Voodoo Coder
    Voodoo Coder:
    RBoy:
    The problem with Lunch & Learns is that when I'm on lunch, I spend my hour trying to forget that I have to go back to work in a bit.

    You might as well make me come in on a Saturday morning for a meeting while you're at it.

    Maybe, consider a different line of work...?

    Not saying that you need to be all "YAY WORK!" about it, but dreading going back to work sounds like an abysmal life to me. Personally, I read stuff like Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete on my lunch (tried doing it at night, before bed...but found that heavy reading before sleep made for bizarre dreams and forgotten material).

    I don't know any GOOD developers who would oppose free pizza AND a chance to get better at their trade. Plenty of crappy ones, sure. Good ones...none.

    Amen

  • (cs) in reply to RBoy
    RBoy:
    Voodoo Coder:
    RBoy:
    The problem with Lunch & Learns is that when I'm on lunch, I spend my hour trying to forget that I have to go back to work in a bit.

    You might as well make me come in on a Saturday morning for a meeting while you're at it.

    Maybe, consider a different line of work...?

    Not saying that you need to be all "YAY WORK!" about it, but dreading going back to work sounds like an abysmal life to me. Personally, I read stuff like Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete on my lunch (tried doing it at night, before bed...but found that heavy reading before sleep made for bizarre dreams and forgotten material).

    I don't know any GOOD developers who would oppose free pizza AND a chance to get better at their trade. Plenty of crappy ones, sure. Good ones...none.

    Oh noes, is someone who does not know who I am, what I do for a living, or anything about my job is calling me a "crappy" developer?

    Oh Noes!

    Let's look at my lunchtime options. A: Go Home

    1. Watch TV
    2. Eat something freshly made
    3. Listen to something that's NSFW
    4. Anything else I want to do in the Privacy of my own home.

    B: Do some shopping/errands C: Go for a nice walk, drive, etc.

    But according to you, if I was a good programmer, my best option would be to hang out in the breakroom eating my lunch during a power-point presentation.

    Yep, I can see how only people who sucked at their job that they hated would want to do anything entertaining on lunch.

    And you know what? Your job must suck if you have to use time off the clock to have the time to openly discuss things.

    Me, I'm free to stop in anyones office and talk about solutions to (almost) any problem. Or how to improve (almost) anything. I don't need a presentation to start a conversation.

    But again, I must suck and work at a horrible place.

    Dumbass, nobody is suggesting that EVERY lunch should be like this, but what is wrong with once a month getting together to discuss best practices? Are you that self absorbed that you can't spare one hour a month to learn something, or gasp help somebody else learn something?

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to J
    J:
    Wow. Not learning from mistakes. Don't have the pizza there at there start. Maybe somebody might actually learn something first and really want to stay for more than the pizza.

    That's exactly the right solution. Start the meeting off with an apology about how the pizza was supposed to be here at the start, but hasn't turned up yet, and you can't imagine why it isn't here yet, but you're sure it'll be here in just a minute, so why don't we get started? Then have somebody bring the pizza out (that really was there before the meeting started) after about 30 minutes or so and give a fake shocked "finally, the pizza is here!"

  • Sr Axxhole (unregistered) in reply to amischiefr
    amischiefr:
    RBoy:
    Voodoo Coder:
    RBoy:
    The problem with Lunch & Learns is that when I'm on lunch, I spend my hour trying to forget that I have to go back to work in a bit.

    You might as well make me come in on a Saturday morning for a meeting while you're at it.

    Maybe, consider a different line of work...?

    Not saying that you need to be all "YAY WORK!" about it, but dreading going back to work sounds like an abysmal life to me. Personally, I read stuff like Pragmatic Programmer and Code Complete on my lunch (tried doing it at night, before bed...but found that heavy reading before sleep made for bizarre dreams and forgotten material).

    I don't know any GOOD developers who would oppose free pizza AND a chance to get better at their trade. Plenty of crappy ones, sure. Good ones...none.

    Oh noes, is someone who does not know who I am, what I do for a living, or anything about my job is calling me a "crappy" developer?

    Oh Noes!

    Let's look at my lunchtime options. A: Go Home

    1. Watch TV
    2. Eat something freshly made
    3. Listen to something that's NSFW
    4. Anything else I want to do in the Privacy of my own home.

    B: Do some shopping/errands C: Go for a nice walk, drive, etc.

    But according to you, if I was a good programmer, my best option would be to hang out in the breakroom eating my lunch during a power-point presentation.

    Yep, I can see how only people who sucked at their job that they hated would want to do anything entertaining on lunch.

    And you know what? Your job must suck if you have to use time off the clock to have the time to openly discuss things.

    Me, I'm free to stop in anyones office and talk about solutions to (almost) any problem. Or how to improve (almost) anything. I don't need a presentation to start a conversation.

    But again, I must suck and work at a horrible place.

    Dumbass, nobody is suggesting that EVERY lunch should be like this, but what is wrong with once a month getting together to discuss best practices? Are you that self absorbed that you can't spare one hour a month to learn something, or gasp help somebody else learn something?

    Yeah, you door-knob dumb mistake of human genetics. Why don't you take your break, breathe through your mouth, and eat some glass instead of .. what are we argueing about again?

    Point is you're worthless. I think.

  • Buddy (unregistered)

    Easy fix: presentation first, then reward (food, software, tickets, etc).

  • Lumberjack (unregistered)

    I'm appalled at all the "I'm going to DIE if you make me go to a single L'n'L!!!11!OMG Fuck you for telling me how to live my LIFE!!!! LIFE THAT APPARENTLY YOU DON'T HAVE!!! HAHAHA, SUCKER!!!!"

    You think you're a perfect programmer? That makes you, by definition, a bad programmer and a bad co-worker.

    Seriously, it's not work, it's discussing with your peers how to be better. It IS a break from what you are doing during work hours.

    Not wanting to sacrifice a lunch break is not a sign of unwillingness to learn, it's a sign that we are humans and require rest and nourishment to continue living.

    Facepalm. Just... facepalm.

  • AndyL (unregistered)

    Can I be excused from the lunch lecture if I've already read the book in question, you know, back in college?

    Let me know when you're up to more advanced books.

    But I wouldn't show up just to take the pizza and leave. That's rather rude. I recommend hunting those people down, waiting until the next morning meeting that THEY are running, and steal all their donuts.

  • (cs) in reply to AndyL
    AndyL:
    Can I be excused from the lunch lecture if I've already read the book in question, you know, back in college?

    Let me know when you're up to more advanced books.

    But I wouldn't show up just to take the pizza and leave. That's rather rude. I recommend hunting those people down, waiting until the next morning meeting that THEY are running, and steal all their donuts.

    Usually, these kinds of things are meant to be dialogs, not lectures.

    I'm not saying anything about you personally, but I know a lot of experienced programmers who spend a good deal of time complaining about their less-skilled peers...these L&L's are a great time to be proactive about the problem, and teach some of those valuable skills.

    So you read Code Complete back in sophomore year? Great! Refresh what you may have forgotten, teach what you remember...or comment about how long winded the book is...or about how Stranger in a Strange Land had more of an influence on you as a programmer than ANY of these technically oriented books. Whatev...it's just a good time to mesh with other developers...

    It's also optional, so if you'd rather spend that time doing something else, you don't even have to ask to be excused from it.

  • RBoy (unregistered) in reply to amischiefr
    amischiefr:
    Dumbass, nobody is suggesting that EVERY lunch should be like this, but what is wrong with once a month getting together to discuss best practices? Are you that self absorbed that you can't spare one hour a month to learn something, or *gasp* help somebody else learn something?

    Dumbass, I'm suggesting that such things take place as part of your work day. And that if you want to learn something, your corporate culture sucks if you can't stand up and go talk to someone.

    Aww feugiat... you're worse then some managers I've had.

  • IHateTheosupremacism (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    He will inevitably fall into the familiar routine of doing as little work as physically possible

    i sadly find myself doing that at my current job to A) say i have something to do B) break up the mind numbling easy coding tasks C) try to drown out the despair from my college loans in web surving

  • (cs) in reply to IHateTheosupremacism
    IHateTheosupremacism:
    A) say i have something to do B) break up the mind numbling easy coding tasks C) try to drown out the despair from my college loans in web surving
    Bow down before the one you surv You're going to get what you deserve
  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    IHateTheosupremacism:
    A) say i have something to do B) break up the mind numbling easy coding tasks C) try to drown out the despair from my college loans in web surving
    Bow down before the one you surv You're going to get what you deserve
    [image]
  • Duke of New York (unregistered)

    Yeah, I've worked at a place that had the "book club" for a while. It was a distraction and a waste of time. Maybe there's a place for it if the company is adopting a particular specialized technology, to get everyone up to speed. Scheduling a meeting with other devs to go over general development practices will be perceived as an insult (even if it's deserved), and will lead to what is described here.

  • morry (unregistered)

    Let this be a lesson in human nature, subby. this is true of all work places, all human interactions. One keener and go-getter is surrounded by 100s (I'm not exaggerating) of leeches, freeloaders, and unappreciative people. If you're lucky enough to find some more people with the same mindset and desire, treasure them because they are rare gems. I've tried this enough times in various forms to determine that you're never gonna get a good participation rate or a high level of interested. And that some people are surprisingly good at this, but they're generally the used-car salesman type and are only doing it for their own profit.

  • Capt. Obvious (unregistered)

    I apologize for being off topic, but I followed the IObject link in the article. As that article is several years old, the only way I can hope for a response is to post here.

    I assume, looking at that code, it was C++ and not C#. As other people pointed out, there already is an Object class in C#. But other than that, isn't having a common ancestor a good thing? Specifically mentioned, and specifically chastized, is the concept of building reflexivity into the base class. Why wouldn't you want to do that (again, in C++, not C#)

  • A Gould (unregistered) in reply to Calli Arcale
    Calli Arcale:
    Where I work, the free lunch thing is precisely why it's "brown bag" -- if you go, it is purely on your own recognizance. No one is recompensing you in any way. My only problem with the "brown-bag" presentation is that some seem to see them as a way of reducing training expenses, and that's a bad long-term strategy for the company. It shouldn't replace training; it should supplement it.

    Also, it shouldn't be used as a head-count of "ambitious" people. My company runs "brown bag" meetings (I'm ditching one right now, as a matter o'fact). I went to the first few, then stopped when it became obvious the attendees were either management (showing support) or the usual suck-ups (who were there to hang with management, rather than watch the presentation).

    Helped that around the same time I was invited to a group that met during work hours, and was far more hands-on (everyone was expected to contribute, so there were no slackers).

  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    IHateTheosupremacism:
    A) say i have something to do B) break up the mind numbling easy coding tasks C) try to drown out the despair from my college loans in web surving
    Bow down before the one you surv You're going to get what you deserve

    good song :D

  • (cs) in reply to Capt. Obvious
    Capt. Obvious:
    isn't having a common ancestor a good thing?

    only when it's appropriate.

    the classes sharing a "common ancestor" should somehow be related

    like Square and Circle are types of shape, air craft carrier and cruiser are types of ship, etc. but the "universal baseclass" is by many considered inappropriate and I tend to agree with them.

  • RBoy (unregistered) in reply to Lumberjack
    Lumberjack:
    I'm appalled at all the "I'm going to DIE if you make me go to a single L'n'L!!!11!OMG Fuck you for telling me how to live my LIFE!!!! LIFE THAT APPARENTLY YOU DON'T HAVE!!! HAHAHA, SUCKER!!!!"

    You think you're a perfect programmer? That makes you, by definition, a bad programmer and a bad co-worker.

    Seriously, it's not work, it's discussing with your peers how to be better. It IS a break from what you are doing during work hours.

    Not wanting to sacrifice a lunch break is not a sign of unwillingness to learn, it's a sign that we are humans and require rest and nourishment to continue living.

    Facepalm. Just... facepalm.

    I don't think anyone here is saying "I'm Sooo good, nobody can teach me anything".

    What I'm saying is that if you need a Lunch & Learn to talk about the quality of your work with co-workers, your company has failed with generating a good corporate culture. That, and asking me to attend meetings during lunchtime is the same as calling me in on a weekend for a meeting. If I need help, a second opinion, etc, I just get out from behind my monitor, and ask someone. Generally, if there's an intresting discussion going on, others will join in regardless of their personal intrest in the project being worked on. Sometimes, I'll talk to the co-workers in my department. Sometimes, I'll talk to my boss. Sometimes, I'll talk to someone in a different department. Easy-peasy.

    If you're using a L&L to replace that, how to spend your lunch really is the least of your concerns.

  • (cs) in reply to BK
    BK:
    no-one will read this comment ...

    ... nor anything with a colon in the title.

  • (cs)

    I'm guessing that you guys talking down on the L&L's probably aren't members of any users groups, either. Three hour meetings, after work, once a month, per group, not counting driving time. Of course, they do feed us... :)

  • Jim in I.T. (unregistered) in reply to Michael D. Hall

    Didn't have the eggs to admit it?? I think you meant cojones.

  • Brian (unregistered)

    Gives new meaning to "curb your enthusiasm."

  • Neil (unregistered) in reply to Kazan
    Kazan:
    Capt. Obvious:
    isn't having a common ancestor a good thing?

    only when it's appropriate.

    the classes sharing a "common ancestor" should somehow be related

    like Square and Circle are types of shape, air craft carrier and cruiser are types of ship, etc. but the "universal baseclass" is by many considered inappropriate and I tend to agree with them.

    And flying saucer is a type of ship and shape.

  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    My team has a regularly scheduled team meeting once a week. It lasts an hour. Generally the first five minutes are spent on any announcements our manager has, plus idle chit-chat. After that, we go around the room and 17 people get the chance to talk about any problems they're having with their projects. Generally, it's not a discussion of problems so much as a summation of where they are in the project.

    It's a perfect time to have a 45-50 minute presentation, and we've used it that way on occasion. Since it's a mandatory meeting and the boss is in attendance, nobody will be slipping out a few minutes into it. It's on the clock, and there's no expense for meals.

    Wow... that sounds just like my boss at my PPoE...

  • (cs) in reply to Jim in I.T.
    Jim in I.T.:
    Didn't have the eggs to admit it?? I think you meant cojones.

    "Huevos" is also a common slang for "testicles" en español.

  • (cs)
    After finagling a bit to get the lunch portion paid for

    Well, I was about to rant about that being some kind of made-up word, but I checked the good old Oxford English and I guess I learned something new today.

    Now where's my frickin' pizza?

  • Anonymous User (unregistered) in reply to Tzimisce

    you mean the old COBOL programmers that are in high demand because they're the ones who actually can maintain and fix apps and services that are still being used today?

  • (cs) in reply to Kazan
    Kazan:
    Code Dependent:
    IHateTheosupremacism:
    A) say i have something to do B) break up the mind numbling easy coding tasks C) try to drown out the despair from my college loans in web surving
    Bow down before the one you surv You're going to get what you deserve

    good song :D

    What, we're reduced to some sort of Diggalike site for AFI geeks, now?

    Bring back Gordon is a Moron -- all is forgiven.

  • Rocco (unregistered) in reply to Anon

    I've met few freelancers who would turn down free food...

  • Downfall (unregistered) in reply to rfsmit
    rfsmit:
    Like many others, I've tried this kind of thing before multiple times, and it just falls by the wayside because... well, no good reason. Just apathy.

    I even tried to make it a non-attendance thing, by setting up a company wiki at my last and current jobs. Even after I seed it with a wide range of stubs and some full articles, nobody uses the damned thing as intended. They just complain about lack of content. It's a wiki! Sheesh!

    Why should I contribute to a wiki at work, when I could just find or create a place freely available on the internet to upload what I know? Heck, I doubt I'll retire without changing jobs at least a few more times; why should I contribute to a resource that I will, inevitably, be locked out of? L&L's are a bit different, because I take the knowledge with me when I go.

  • (cs) in reply to RBoy
    RBoy:
    What I'm saying is that if you need a Lunch & Learn to talk about the quality of your work with co-workers, your company has failed with generating a good corporate culture. That, and asking me to attend meetings during lunchtime is the same as calling me in on a weekend for a meeting.
    OK, let's cut to the chase here.

    There is no such thing as "corporate culture." Not even free yoghurt for lunch.

    There is "corporate" and there is "culture." The two are entirely orthogonal. God help you if some PHB deludes you into thinking that there's an intersection, other than one that Anthropology PhDs can fuss about.

    Corporations do not work that way. Corporations are inherently -- indeed, designed to be (see Paul Graham) -- hierarchical structures, and every single layer of that hierarchy has a different "culture." I used to sit behind my boss at meetings because, quite frankly, she had a great butt. Occasionally I would look up and glance at the "mission statement" on the projected PowerPoint, but basically I entertained myself through the endless seconds of "team spirit building" and "look, learn, and then look again before you cross the road without holding Mommy's hand" by staring at my boss's butt.

    Does that make me a bad person? Maybe, although I wish to point out that my boss had far more assets than ... er ... her ass.

    Unfortunately, these things tend toward the lowest common denominator.

    Of course, if they'd offered free pizza ... well then.

    That would have been different.

    It was in California, btw. Should you work in Butthole, Montana, your mileage may vary.

  • Anonymous User (unregistered) in reply to amischiefr

    learn to read, 'dumbass'. Maybe then you'll see what he responded to, and you can formulate your reply accordingly instead of knee-jerking around. Now you were once again jumping to conclusions and went and portrayed yourself as a foaming selfrighteous asshat who can't read.

  • Mitur Binesderti (unregistered)

    Once again the actual WTF is the poster.

    I like to think that while I may not be a stellar programmer I am always willing to learn but I don't want to waste my lunch hour to do it.

    Plus meetings are evil. Call it a "Lunch & Learn" all you want but it's still some meeting by some dude I don't know who's trying to suck up to the boss.

    So setting up a LUNCH meeting is like stabbing me in the eye with a rusty fork and wondering why I'm not enjoying it.

  • Teh Irish Gril Riot (unregistered) in reply to RBoy
    RBoy:
    ... your company has failed with generating a good corporate culture ...

    Okay, I'll bite off on this one.

    Where in the hell do you work that has a 'good' corporate culture? (Rhetorical question - don't actually answer.)

    I've been in IT for fifteen years, have worked at a handful of companies, and I've yet to find even a moderately healthy corporate culture. I don't think I even know anyone who has ever worked at any corporation that had a half-way functional culture.

    It's Bedlam! All Bedlam!

  • ping floyd (unregistered) in reply to rfsmit
    rfsmit:
    I even tried to make it a non-attendance thing, by setting up a company wiki at my last and current jobs. Even after I seed it with a wide range of stubs and some full articles, nobody uses the damned thing as intended. They just complain about lack of content. It's a wiki! Sheesh!

    Maybe they just hate wikis as much as I do.

  • (cs) in reply to Rocco
    Rocco:
    I've met few freelancers who would turn down free food...
    Technically, they mostly like killing people for money. Pizza optional.

    In fact, they hadn't even invented the damn stuff when freelancers were in their prime (15th - 16th century).

    Also, I've met few people down on their luck who would turn down free food. I've been one. The difference is, if you're skint and in a foreign country and up shit creek and the Salvation Army (or whoever) offers you free food -- and I must admit, that particular flavor of AlpoCake wouldn't have been my first choice -- you scarf it up, ask for a kitty-bag (I loathe dogs) for your dependent others, and say a heartfelt thanks. In my case, I even offered to do voluntary work for the lads on Thanksgiving.

    What do we learn from this, children? It's a neat little moral fable:

    (1) If someone goes to the trouble of organising something in their own free time (which might include, shudder, preparation, and if you've ever been or known a teacher, you'll realise that preparation, however shoddy, takes between 5x and 10x the presentation time), and offers free food, you have only one choice: (1.1) Tell them to fuck off because (1.1.a) I'm lactose-intolerant, you insensitive clod. (Interestingly, lactose-intolerant people are too polite to do this.) (1.1.b) I'm not convinced it didn't have sesame seeds/peanuts/huge amounts of uncut heroin used whilst flipping the pizza. (Interestingly, most Pakistani or Afghan addicts are too polite to do this.) (1.1.c) The blackberry has just gone off and I'm due home for lunch with the kids. Or with a visiting Pakistani heroin addict. For the current purpose, the difference is immaterial.

    Or:

    (1.2) Eat the food, grin inanely, stare at PowerPoint presentation, listen to enthusiastic junior developer, maybe even consign one lunchtime a fortnight to the "Oh Well" bin, and maybe, just maybe, ask a question like "Well, nobody round here is doing that. Does anybody know why that is?"

    Option (2): Eat pizza, parrot convenient corporate-style lie involving "phone call" -- like any lunchtime phonecall coming from a country that doesn't have something like a twelve-hour time difference is important. Then leave. You pathetic little fart.

    There is NO option (2).

    What the hell happened to common courtesy?

  • (cs) in reply to Mitur Binesderti
    Mitur Binesderti:
    So setting up a LUNCH meeting is like stabbing me in the eye with a rusty fork and wondering why I'm not enjoying it.
    You know you love it. [image]
  • bjolling (unregistered) in reply to rfsmit
    rfsmit:
    Like many others, I've tried this kind of thing before multiple times, and it just falls by the wayside because... well, no good reason. Just apathy.

    I even tried to make it a non-attendance thing, by setting up a company wiki at my last and current jobs. Even after I seed it with a wide range of stubs and some full articles, nobody uses the damned thing as intended. They just complain about lack of content. It's a wiki! Sheesh!

    I've just set up a wiki like that. Already one person has rephrased a sentence in one topic and inserted a crappy code sample. Does that count as a success?

  • (cs)

    Gee... the animosity in here.

    Can't we all agree that there are different kinds of people? The ones who go to L&Ls for the pizza, the ones who go there to learn things, and the ones who don't go, because they need their breaks from work.

    That's it. Accept the differences and go on with your lives.

  • James (unregistered)
    Pretty bad, Tal M thought to himself on his first day on the new job. Pretty, pretty, pretty bad.

    So Tal == Larry David, eh?

    Love the Curb references.

  • Americium (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    J:
    Wow. Not learning from mistakes. Don't have the pizza there at there start. Maybe somebody might actually learn something first and really want to stay for more than the pizza.

    That's exactly the right solution. Start the meeting off with an apology about how the pizza was supposed to be here at the start, but hasn't turned up yet, and you can't imagine why it isn't here yet, but you're sure it'll be here in just a minute, so why don't we get started? Then have somebody bring the pizza out (that really was there before the meeting started) after about 30 minutes or so and give a fake shocked "finally, the pizza is here!"

    "Wow, this pizza is cold!"

  • GrandmasterB (unregistered) in reply to Mitur Binesderti
    Mitur Binesderti:
    Once again the actual WTF is the poster.

    I like to think that while I may not be a stellar programmer I am always willing to learn but I don't want to waste my lunch hour to do it.

    I agree. 'Tal', like a lot of the supposed 'heroes' in these wtf stories, sounds like a total corporate tool. So naive to think that anyone gives a rats ass about him. Plus, honestly, a book club? How gay is that?

  • (cs)

    "The ones who go to L&Ls for the pizza, the ones who go there to learn things, and the ones who don't go, because they need their breaks from work."

    Don't forget the ones who think they are good at their job and they think they learn enough on the job, so they don't go. But these are the ones that people are going WTF about and they are totally clueless about it.

  • SomeCoder (unregistered) in reply to Lumberjack
    Lumberjack:
    I'm appalled at all the "I'm going to DIE if you make me go to a single L'n'L!!!11!OMG Fuck you for telling me how to live my LIFE!!!! LIFE THAT APPARENTLY YOU DON'T HAVE!!! HAHAHA, SUCKER!!!!"

    You think you're a perfect programmer? That makes you, by definition, a bad programmer and a bad co-worker.

    Seriously, it's not work, it's discussing with your peers how to be better. It IS a break from what you are doing during work hours.

    Not wanting to sacrifice a lunch break is not a sign of unwillingness to learn, it's a sign that we are humans and require rest and nourishment to continue living.

    Facepalm. Just... facepalm.

    I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't ever sacrifice lunch. I just think if someone doesn't want to for something that is optional and - let's face it - has questionable benefit, they shouldn't be met with flames and insults.

    I guess I don't fit the typical programmer who comes home after writing code all day and immediately sits down to write some more code until 1 AM, lather, rinse, repeat. When I sit down to take a break from programming, I like to, you know, TAKE A BREAK. Sitting down and talking about coding isn't my definition of taking a break. If it is for you, fine, go do it. Just don't expect everyone to follow the exact same lead as you. Some of us have families that we like to spend some time with (Yes, even at lunch time, as shocking as that may sound to you).

    Obviously, you can't comprehend this incredibly simple fact without flaming. Please attempt to remember that though some of us are happy as coders, not all of us want to fill every free second we get with writing code. It's not about being perfect already, it's about wanting what I would consider to be a real break.

    TRWTF is that people on this board as so pious about their professions.

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