• Mike H. (unregistered) in reply to Casey

    Uneducated people and stupid contractors that's who...

    I served as a resident IT technician for an apartment complex I was living in during my college days. When the complex was built they forgot to put in wiring for ethernet connections. So all we had were 2-3 closets per building with one huge switch for 30+ residents. In each of the resident's rooms there was one panel with 2 jacks (Ethernet CAT5 jack and a phone jack) and in the main room there was only a jack for a phone line.

    At least 90% of the time when someone called saying "My Internet doesn't work" was because someone put the ethernet cable in the phone jack. I'd ask them if they had tried the other jack and they usually said they did and it didn't work. When I actually had to go up to their room, I saw that the cable was still in the phone jack. Low and behold... when I plugged the ethernet cable in the right jack their connection magically worked.

    WHODATHUNK!

  • (cs) in reply to jtl
    jtl:
    Saaid:
    If you have to plug it in (for power or communications) it's not really wireless is it? Any lawyers want to start a class action suit?

    Yea...and fire engines aren't on fire either! WTF!?!?!

    And hot water heaters don't heat hot water, either. They heat cold water until it's hot, then they STOP! Perfect for a class action.

  • Mitch (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    Mitch:
    That's not an entirely idiot assumption to make. People are told it's wireless, so they assume they don't have to plug in any wires. Maybe a power cable to turn it on, but nothing else.

    Same thing, except you say "computer" instead of "phone", and suddenly people get all confused.

    And therein lies the problem. Take an already understood concept, apply it to computers, and all common sense and prior knowledge goes out the window. It's self imposed, voluntary stupidity.

  • Mitch (unregistered) in reply to Garth
    Garth:
    Vollhorst:
    I was able to connect to a neighbour's network and none of his computers was protected. So I leached some new movies from him and looked at his family photos. Oh, his fat daughter (real ugly monster) had quite a diary. And the mails she had send (and received from) to a strange guy in Switzerland was quite disturbing. But quite funny when you compared her photos with her description of herself she has sent to him. And all the cybersex... via mail?! Strange folk.

    But they protected their wireless some hours after I used their printer to print some nice pages like "Woooohoooo, I am the ghost in the machine! You will die today!". The usual stuff. ;)

    hmm, I doubt your story but funny anyway. Why waste the printout with a ghost scare when you could have embarrassed the daughter by printing out her "cybersex" correspondence?

    How is that story doubtful?

    I remember years ago when cable broadband first came out. You'd be on a local network with everyone else on your street. If someone was running windows 98 w/ shared folders or shared printers, everyone else on the "network" (street) could see it. My provider at that time even sent a notice about this and recommended people not share their folders.

    Not sure if etherreal would work in a situation like that. If it did, you could have a lot of fun.

  • paratus (unregistered) in reply to JimM
    JimM:
    If you keep trying to plug RJ45s into your CPU I'm amazed your computer has remained operational long enough for you to make a comment on here...
    If YOU keep trying to plug RJ-45's into your NIC, you need to find a field other than IT...

    Desktop NICs most commonly use a 8P8C modular jacks to mate with 8P8C modular connector wired to the TIA/EIA-568-A or TIA/EIA-568-B cable spec used in Ethernet...

    I've never seen a NIC that requires a RJ-45 connector, better yet I'll doubt you have even seen a real RJ-45 and if you've seen one I know you work at an OLD American Telecomm.

  • (cs) in reply to DropDeadThread
    DropDeadThread:
    What I learned in this thread:
    1. Wireless devices do, in fact, have wires.
    2. Pedantic hairsplitting quibblers make me want to kill all living things.
    What you contributed in this thread: [image]
  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to paratus
    paratus:
    JimM:
    If you keep trying to plug RJ45s into your CPU I'm amazed your computer has remained operational long enough for you to make a comment on here...
    If YOU keep trying to plug RJ-45's into your NIC, you need to find a field other than IT...

    Desktop NICs most commonly use a 8P8C modular jacks to mate with 8P8C modular connector wired to the TIA/EIA-568-A or TIA/EIA-568-B cable spec used in Ethernet...

    I've never seen a NIC that requires a RJ-45 connector, better yet I'll doubt you have even seen a real RJ-45 and if you've seen one I know you work at an OLD American Telecomm.

    You're a pedantic asshole, which is to be expected in IT. So what if it's actually an RJ49? People call it RJ45 everywhere.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Mitch
    Mitch:
    Jamie:
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??

    The wireless router needs to be connected to a phone/cable line maybe.

    That's not an entirely idiot assumption to make. People are told it's wireless, so they assume they don't have to plug in any wires. Maybe a power cable to turn it on, but nothing else.

    Then again, any sympathy I'd have for that erroneous assumption goes out the window when you consider the giant, fold out, big picture, easy to read quick-start guide they get.

    People are stupid because we allow it. If idiocy like expecting your wireless router to work without plugging it into anything or not making an effort to understand the very basic principles of the stuff you use every day were met with mockery instead of sympathy, people would change.

  • Josh (unregistered) in reply to Piercy

    I've got a friend that works tech support at one of the large cable ISPs and this is a call they get extremely frequently. As in, a couple of times a week at least for the whole call center.

  • (cs) in reply to Mike H.
    Mike H.:
    someone put the ethernet cable in the phone jack.

    !!

    How do you fit a six-pin cable in a four-pin jack?

  • Jake Cohen (unregistered)

    TRWTF is that upon discovering that this customer is, shall we say, a novice computer user, the first question he asks is, "can you tell me what router you're connecting to?"

    Hell, if a support tech asked me that, I'd probably say, "uh.. mine?"

  • P (unregistered) in reply to Casey
    Casey:
    Who the F connects a router to a phone line???

    Erm, well, I do, for starters. To call it just a router is a bit misleading though. It's an ADSL modem, router, 4 port switch and wireless access point all combined in one unit. Netgear DG834G if you're interested.

  • frustrati (unregistered) in reply to David
    David:
    Um, a wireless router needs a minimum of two things plugged in to ensure proper function.
    1. Power. This should be a BIG clue.
    2. Cable/DSL Line.
    Oh, really?

    Thanks for clearing that up for us, Dave.

  • frustrati (unregistered) in reply to Izzy
    Izzy:
    Me too, but I still have to plug in the charger cord sometimes. The charger plugs into the car. The car doesn't plug into anything.
    I would assume that it occasionally plugs into the gas station.
  • (cs) in reply to ComputerForumUser
    ComputerForumUser:
    The problem isn't when they call the routers wireless, it's when the ISPs sell their broadband/ADSL as wireless - usually with the term “Wireless Broadband”, for something that you still get down a wire.
    Oh so very true. When Telmex started giving modems with integrated APs, they started selling the "Infinitum Inalambrico" package (Infinitum is Telmex's ADSL service brand). Thanks to this idiot marketing gimmick, I suddenly got a lot of inquiries about this service not requiring a phone line.

    It even got better because back then, both my landline and broadband were provided by actual wireless solutions!

  • (cs) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    Mike H.:
    someone put the ethernet cable in the phone jack.

    !!

    How do you fit a six-pin cable in a four-pin jack?

    Because the wall panel usually has an eight-pin socket. The modular wiring system was deliberately designed so that a smaller plug works properly with a larger jack, so that a one-line telephone (RJ-11 plug) could connect to a four-line telephone system (RJ-45 socket).

    As a side note, twisted-pair Ethernet uses an eight-pin connector, and telephones usually use a six-pin connector (of which two or four wires are actually connected).

  • v.dog (unregistered) in reply to Jamie
    Jamie:
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??
    The wireless router needs to be connected to a phone/cable line maybe.
    I think you missed the point: Matt was pointing out her logic, not his own.
  • (cs)

    Back to Tesla, I highly recommend the biography Man out of Time, which happens to be the first reference in Tesla's Wikipedia page:

    Cheney, Margaret "Tesla: Man Out of Time". Simon and Schuster, October 2, 2001. ISBN 0-7432-1536-2 (The first edition was 1981.)

    Did you know that Tesla once caused Mark Twain to literally shit his pants in his laboratory?

  • Pingmaster (unregistered) in reply to Jamie
    Jamie:
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??

    The wireless router needs to be connected to a phone/cable line maybe.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm?

  • lokey (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    Saaid:
    Code Dependent:
    me:
    It's not wireless if you attach a "LINE" which if you were any sort of IT professional you would know is another word for "WIRE".
    You are joking about this, right?
    If you have to plug it in (for power or communications) it's not really wireless is it? Any lawyers want to start a class action suit?
    My access is over DSL, which comes via a phone line. I bought a wireless router so that I could connect all throughout the house instead of just where the phone line is. There is a phone wire from the router to the DSL; otherwise the router would be of no use. There is no wire between the computers and the router, which is why they call it "wireless".

    Common sense must be applied.

    I call bullshit on this - common sense is not required (by law) in the US, or we would not be inundated with "warning labels" like "caution hot beverage" on a cup of coffee. What, you are a moron and can't figure that out? My favorite warning label (if it is possible to have one) says:

    "WARNING - NO WARNING LABEL"

    common sense is not common...

  • Andrew (unregistered) in reply to Muuttaa

    This must be an Apple thing.

    Some Apple users DO know they are connected to the router next door and don't see anything wrong with that.

    Can it be considered stealing if the access point is left completely insecure?

    A bit like leaving your laptop sitting on the front seat of your car with all your windows wound down...

  • Concerned Citizen (unregistered) in reply to review xtrac do not use
    review xtrac do not use:
    When I was a kid, the term "wireless" used to confuse me. My dad would occasionally refer to the radio as the "wireless". I asked him why it was called that and he said it was because it didn't use wires. I knew a little electronics, so this comment seemed odd to me, sine everythin I build needed wires. So, I opened up a radio and, sure enough it was *full* of wires. That really confused me.

    It was called that because the signal itself (ie, the guy talking) arrived without wires, rather than coming over a wire like a telephone.

    Now get off my lawn!

  • Bobby (unregistered) in reply to Muuttaa

    That's almost as good as the customer I spoke with when I worked at AppleCare that was CONVINCED that her estranged husband was hacking into her computer... through the power cable... and wanted to know how to power her computer without a wire.

  • Dagfari (unregistered) in reply to Jamie

    facepalm

  • Robotech_Master (unregistered)

    I've worked tech support too long. I guessed what the problem was the moment she said the network ID was the same but it was asking for a password now.

    Some computers really do make it too easy to get on wireless networks.

  • Markku Uttula (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    me:
    It's not wireless if you attach a "LINE" which if you were any sort of IT professional you would know is another word for "WIRE".
    You are joking about this, right?

    You've never worked on a helpdesk, have you?

    Interestingly some clients go as far as thinking the router needs no electricity either; after all, a power cable is a wire too - in their minds.

  • Rob (unregistered)

    When I moved into the block of units I live in now, I was told that there was a wireless internet connection set up for the building, and that if I wanted I just needed a wireless whatever and could use it.

    So, I asked him, "What's the password for it?" He just stared at me blankly and said, "No, you just need the wireless modem." I started to say, "There isn't.. like a password or anything?" But after 'password' he just shook his head and interrupted, "Have you ever used a wireless network before? All you need is the modem and you'll be able to use it."

  • (cs) in reply to lokey
    lokey:
    Code Dependent:
    Common sense must be applied.
    I call bullshit on this - common sense is not required (by law) in the US, or we would not be inundated with "warning labels" like "caution hot beverage" on a cup of coffee. What, you are a moron and can't figure that out? My favorite warning label (if it is possible to have one) says:

    "WARNING - NO WARNING LABEL"

    common sense is not common...

    I stand corrected. Very well, then: uncommon sense must be applied. And this post had better have its own warning.

    CAUTION: reading this post may cause actual thought.

  • Markku Uttula (unregistered) in reply to Mark
    Mark:
    That reminds of when (in the early 90s) I saw a woman at the pharmacy insisting that she had to use Panasonic AA batteries in her Panasonic personal cassette player.

    Interestingly, that sounds like she had actually read the user's manual... in the 90's (at least, don't know these days) the Panasonic manuals used to say something to the effect of "for best performance, you should use Panasonic AA batteries at all times", which - for some people - get's interpreted in their brain as "you should only use Panasonic AA batteries on this device". Go figure :)

  • Markku Uttula (unregistered) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    Mike H.:
    someone put the ethernet cable in the phone jack.

    !!

    How do you fit a six-pin cable in a four-pin jack?

    On recent buildings, RJ11 is seldom used anymore. All the connections, computer, telephone, even Audio and Video, are on six-pin outlets (at least that's how it is in Finland - wouldn't know about other parts of the world).

  • (cs) in reply to Real Old Fart
    Real Old Fart:
    David:
    Um, a wireless router needs a minimum of two things plugged in to ensure proper function.
    1. Power. This should be a BIG clue.
    2. Cable/DSL Line.
    Um, no it doesn't. You need a technology refresher. My cell phone functions as an aircard (AT&T 8525). Cradlepoint manufacturers battery powered WiFi routers. Add a USB cable to connect the two and 'Presto - a real wireless network'.

    Still a wire/cable there! Could just use bluetooth between your phone and laptop.

  • (cs) in reply to paratus
    paratus:
    I've never seen a NIC that requires a RJ-45 connector, better yet I'll doubt you have even seen a real RJ-45 and if you've seen one I know you work at an OLD American Telecomm.

    Actually, NICs really do take RJ45 connectors. You're just not old enough to know that there actually is no Registered Jack #45. You're thinking of RJ45S.

    Yes, the name RJ45 has been co-opted by NIC and network cable manufacturers. That doesn't mean it isn't valid, since the term never really existed to start with.

    Remember! No matter how pedantic you are, there's always someone just a little bit more pedantic.

  • (cs) in reply to Robotech_Master
    Robotech_Master:
    Some computers really do make it too easy to get on wireless networks.

    When I first moved into my current house I was listening to music on my old Windows XP laptop when I heard the chime noise of a new MSN message. I was about to go WTF (as it was before the ADSL2 was connected) then I saw it had connected to a neighbour's wireless network securely named "default".

    Being the good citizen I only used it sparingly :) until my own connection was setup. (though it did take weeks due to a Telstra WTF, but that's another story)

    It's still there and I haven't been able to track down the owner.

  • -- (unregistered)

    Why do everyone assume that an unsecured wireless network must have an idiot behind?

    I always assume that someone leaving his wireless network open is doing me a favour so I can use it if I am in urgent need, or just bored away from home and want to check my email. I leave my own network open as a common courtesy.

    Of course, I pay a flat rate, no matter how much data I transfer during the month, so I'm not incuring in any extra costs.

  • Brunkeberg (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    Saaid:
    Code Dependent:
    me:
    It's not wireless if you attach a "LINE" which if you were any sort of IT professional you would know is another word for "WIRE".
    You are joking about this, right?
    If you have to plug it in (for power or communications) it's not really wireless is it? Any lawyers want to start a class action suit?
    My access is over DSL, which comes via a phone line. I bought a wireless router so that I could connect all throughout the house instead of just where the phone line is. There is a phone wire from the router to the DSL; otherwise the router would be of no use. There is no wire between the computers and the router, which is why they call it "wireless".

    Common sense must be applied.

    Common sense of humour should be applied.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to Jamie
    Jamie:
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??

    The wireless router needs to be connected to a phone/cable line maybe.

    fwoosh

  • nex (unregistered) in reply to Jamie

    Maybe you, Jamie, need to be connected to a clue: it was a joke.

  • (cs) in reply to PolkSaladAndie
    Vollhorst:
    (snipped) ... I leached some new movies from him and looked at his family photos... fat daughter (real ugly monster)... diary... I used their printer to print some nice pages like "Woooohoooo, I am the ghost in the machine! You will die today!"...

    It's interesting to me that some people think it's ok to victimize people who don't know better. Expecting everybody who's bought a wireless router to configure it to be secure is illogical.

    Please don't start with the house/open-doors analogy. It doesn't apply because the victim doesn't even realize that they have an unsecured network, because they are not technologically competent enough - which, you may not realize, is not a crime.

    Besides, are you the kind of person who would walk into a house and vandalize their property, eavesdrop on private communication, just because their front door happened to be open?

    </rant>
  • (cs) in reply to Andrew
    Andrew:
    This must be an Apple thing.

    Can it be considered stealing if the access point is left completely insecure?

    A bit like leaving your laptop sitting on the front seat of your car with all your windows wound down...

    No it's not.

    In the second case, you're aware of the risk of having the bike stolen, and the steps to prevent it.

  • Phil! (unregistered) in reply to Jamie

    Or just some energy? ... Na... that's not important :)

  • Marco (unregistered) in reply to Jamie 
        o <- Joke

    O
   /--\  <-You
    |
   / \
  • Vollhorst (unregistered) in reply to donniel
    donniel:
    Vollhorst:
    (snipped) ... I leached some new movies from him and looked at his family photos... fat daughter (real ugly monster)... diary... I used their printer to print some nice pages like "Woooohoooo, I am the ghost in the machine! You will die today!"...

    It's interesting to me that some people think it's ok to victimize people who don't know better. Expecting everybody who's bought a wireless router to configure it to be secure is illogical.

    Morally it may be wrong but at least it is legal as long as you don't change anything (and the computers aren't protected). ;)

    @a little bit above, forgot the name, shame on me: I was tempted to print her sex-mails but it is one thing to read their stuff and piss them of by using their printer and a whole another thing to shame the daughter in front of her parents.

    I wouldn't have done the whole thing if they were neightbours I knew. They were just some random people living there which I never met personally.

  • 40k3T (unregistered)

    Hey, I got a wireless watch! Kewl.

  • Krane (unregistered) in reply to Jamie
    Jamie:
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??

    The wireless router needs to be connected to a phone/cable line maybe.

    Maybe, just maybe, the router isn't battery/solar operated and would need a power cable too.....
  • eliza (unregistered)

    a local college put wifi in one of their classroom blocks, about 4 stories, posibly several hundred computers... it was rather slow

    then they found they were connecting through some unsuspecting homeowners network nearby

    i think his connection must have been rather slow as well

  • (cs)

    My first assumption about the "it used to not ask for a password" problem is that one of her neighbors decided to teach her a lesson about not securing her router.

    I used to do that all the time, until I moved here and had to wait 3 weeks for the cable guy to come, and realized that some kind person provides just enough wifi for my iphone at the workout room. Someday I may open up my own router to the public.

  • Thomas (unregistered) in reply to Matt S
    Matt S:
    Wait, why would she need to connect any wires to the wireLESS router??
    Because it is called wireLESS not wireNONE.
  • synp (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    Common sense must be applied.

    What? Where does it say that?

  • RiptoR (unregistered) in reply to Jamie

    Oh sweet irony :)

  • Phr34ker (unregistered)

    First of all, cudos to the support-guy that managed to find out this quite complex problem dispite the customer beeing less tech-savvy than a bowl of gravy.

    Worked in ADSL-support for a couple of years while studying, and got quite a few weird calls.

    There was the guy that somehow had managed to drop his ADSL-modem in the bath tub while it was filled with water. I suggested a rubber duck might be a better bathing toy :)

    There was the slightly mentally handicapped guy who called about 7 times a day to report that he had seen a red house with white corners (since one of the other techs couldn't help but tell him that the fiber-layers used such a house on their coffie breaks), and to hear if this meant that he'd get a faster connection (but mostly, it was because he wanted someone to talk to).

    There was the incredibly patient guys from the northern parts of Sweden, that simply responded "Jo, men då vet ja" ("Ok, now I know") when we told them that it would take at least 6-12 months until their extreme ADSL-problems was going to be fixed (simply because Telia (the company I worked for) didn't want too). In contrast, the people from our capital city got extremely pissed off when they called in 03:00 a sunday night, and heard that the technicians wouldn't handle the problem until the next morning... Several hours of not beeing able to play WoW... What a catastrophy...

    There was the woman, that after having helped her with some registry-hacking, started sending me flowers and loveletters...

    And so on...

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