The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

dohpaz42 · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
Roberto:
mathrick:
Working as a PHP programmer that is.
Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was a PHP programmer, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.

You poor, poor man. I've got a rehab centre which I've just opened that can cure him of this condition, by turning him into a COBOL programmer.

Hi, I'm dohpaz42, and I'm a PHP programmer....

Matt Westwood · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

BentFranklin:
There should be a fan fiction competition for the back story of how Dianne Wegg got her 1.4 on.

It had been a tough day yesterday for Dianne Wegg. She had tried over and over again to get her request for the directories renamed from things like "hrdiary12746" to "hrdiary_12062010_v1" so she could find them easier, but every time she rang up it was "But Carol Glammy got her request in first, and she wants us to rename the cleaning roster directories." Carol Glammy, the senior HR executive, was Dianne Wegg's hated enemy.

So, this morning, Dianne went down to IT. It was a long way down, past the executive lounge, past the marketing suite, past the sales team, past the call center, past the kitchen, past the janitor's suite, right down in the bottom basement where the lights were all weak and the smell was socks.

"Hey, lookeee heere," came an unhealthy asthmatic drawl, "looks like we got ourselves a guuuurrrll ..."

"Don't pay attention to him," came a well-modulated voice at Dianne's right. She turned round to see a tall, dark, handsome Englishman dressed in a dark suit with a steely glint in his eye. "I believe you must be down here because of a serious problem?"

Of course she was, nobody came here except for a serious problem. She poured it all out.

"... and I can't get anything done because Carol Glammy's request gets a higher priority!"

"I'll tell you what I can do," said the dreamboat, "I can raise your priority above everybody else in HR. But it will cost you ..."

... ... ...

... Dianne returned to her desk, with that smug bow-legged feeling that bespoke "getting something done".

But - what was this? "Your request is not as high a priority as Carol Glammy's," came the message.

"What! But you told me it would be higher than anyone else in HR!"

"Ah, but it is. It's just that ... Carol Glammy has 'Senior' in her job title."

THE END.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Reminds me of a place I worked where no matter how much they cut the IT budget, the President's PC got fixed immediately. This lead the President to continue to assume that IT's budget could be cut further, as additional cuts did not affect service level.

I left before there was just one remaining IT staffer, dedicated to him full-time.

CAPTCHA: quis. Remember class, there will be a quis on Friday.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

frits:
Roberto:
mathrick:
Working as a PHP programmer that is.
Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was a PHP programmer, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.
First of all, there is no such thing as "was a PHP programmer". That's not how it works. It's not a curable condition. I think it's you who could use sensitivity pointers.

Maybe his son is dead, you insensitive clod!

dohpaz42 · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

anonymouser:
frits:
Roberto:
mathrick:
Working as a PHP programmer that is.
Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was a PHP programmer, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.
First of all, there is no such thing as "was a PHP programmer". That's not how it works. It's not a curable condition. I think it's you who could use sensitivity pointers.
Maybe his son is dead, you insensitive clod!

Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was an insensitive clod, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

anonymouser:
frits:
Roberto:
mathrick:
Working as a PHP programmer that is.
Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was a PHP programmer, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.
First of all, there is no such thing as "was a PHP programmer". That's not how it works. It's not a curable condition. I think it's you who could use sensitivity pointers.
Maybe his son is dead, you insensitive clod!

Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was dead, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
Tale:
How could it be defaulting to the highest rank when there are values both above and below it? And, except for really dysfunctional corporations, wouldn't it make sense that stuff from your ultimate boss gets the highest priority, and so "26" is the highest rank there?
I'm not really grokking this one. There are some issues with the code, yes, but it doesn't seem to address the stated problem. It looks like both ICT Engineer and Finance would get exactly the same result, the default of 1.

Read the submission. He got the highest priority of EVERYONE IN IT.

The fact that everyone else in the company got higher priority than IT is the real WTF and the punchline of the joke.

I grieve the fact that the joke needs to be explained.

Wow, and I managed to get through this entire post without ******* swearing. Oops, oh dear.

How do you know my password????

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Reminds me of a story. Way back when companies could make a living printing paper reports and mailing them out via snail-mail, there was a huge run being done on the industrial printer. The application would queue them as separate small PDF files. The industrial printer would be running all day, devoted to those jobs.

For anything else to print, we had two crappy printers: "Cleaning Wire" an HP which showed that message for a good portion of the morning until it eventually decided to print and "POS" which got that title about two weeks after we bought it. At any time, both of these printers were usually always a heartbeat from failing.

With the extra load, sure enough both our small printers died that day. People were panicking, "I need my Gantt chart but there are a thousand documents ahead of it." Some resorted to going to Staples or wherever and printing out there.

People in IT just clicked their documents in the personal queue and right where it said priority, gave it a notch up from 1 to 2, and specified to output to the special purpose tray. Few seconds later, out it comes, pick it up, Bob's your uncle. Some non-IT saw us going to the printer seemingly just moments after printing, and asked how we got our printouts so fast, we just shrugged, "Lucky, I guess." or give some silly advice "You have to click it right."

This was a place similar to the story where IT got treated like shit, so you can bet no one there told non-IT. After all, you'll get them using it all the time and eventually defaulting their jobs to 99, and then you be back at square one.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Buddy:
Reminds me of a story. Way back when companies could make a living printing paper reports and mailing them out via snail-mail, there was a huge run being done on the industrial printer. The application would queue them as separate small PDF files. The industrial printer would be running all day, devoted to those jobs.
For anything else to print, we had two crappy printers: "Cleaning Wire" an HP which showed that message for a good portion of the morning until it eventually decided to print and "POS" which got that title about two weeks after we bought it. At any time, both of these printers were usually always a heartbeat from failing.

With the extra load, sure enough both our small printers died that day. People were panicking, "I need my Gantt chart but there are a thousand documents ahead of it." Some resorted to going to Staples or wherever and printing out there.

People in IT just clicked their documents in the personal queue and right where it said priority, gave it a notch up from 1 to 2, and specified to output to the special purpose tray. Few seconds later, out it comes, pick it up, Bob's your uncle.Some non-IT saw us going to the printer seemingly just moments after printing, and asked how we got our printouts so fast, we just shrugged, "Lucky, I guess." or give some silly advice "You have to click it right."

This was a place similar to the story where IT got treated like shit, so you can bet no one there told non-IT. After all, you'll get them using it all the time and eventually defaulting their jobs to 99, and then you be back at square one.

I know...I had a cousin who was retarded, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
if and when I ever get my own company off the ground I'm going to run it right. 6 hour days (paid for 8 though), no micromanagement, flex time, can access any websites you want, no monitoring tools.. a little trust and respect goes a long way - people won't dick you over if you treat them like human beings and not pawns that exist to let you act out some feudal/plantation fantasy.

Yeah, that's a nice fantasy too. But it doesn't actually work that way either.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money...

OK I'll give you the gambling and crime thing but as for the legitimately obtained money, where do you think that came from? More inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money? It can't be turtles all the way down. At some point somebody who didn't already have a ton of money came up with a good idea and made a ton of money. I'm asking why that doesn't happen more often with all the idle hands sitting around. It isn't entirely a rhetorical question. Maybe the "public/private partnerships" have locked things up so tight newcomers can't get a toenail in. If so, maybe we need to fix that...

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
"Don't pay attention to him," came a well-modulated voice at Dianne's right. She turned round to see a tall, dark, handsome Englishman dressed in a dark suit with a clear visible bulge in the crotch of his pants. "I believe you must be down here because of a serious problem?"
Of course she was, nobody came here except for a serious problem. He whipped it out.

"... and I can't get anything done because Carol Glammy's request gets a higher priority!"

"Shhhhhh," said the dreamboat, "Why don't we invite her down here and the three of us will work it out..."

... ... [resolving the issue in various positions and combinations of orifices] ... ...

... Dianne returned to her desk, barely able walk upright; a posture that bespoke "getting done in the somewhere".

I like this better.

FUCK SUBTLETY.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Paul:
Gordy Gecko:
What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money...
OK I'll give you the gambling and crime thing but as for the legitimately obtained money, where do you think that came from? More inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money? It can't be turtles all the way down. At some point somebody who didn't already have a ton of money came up with a good idea and made a ton of money. I'm asking why that doesn't happen more often with all the idle hands sitting around. It isn't entirely a rhetorical question. Maybe the "public/private partnerships" have locked things up so tight newcomers can't get a toenail in. If so, maybe we need to fix that...

I think it's because the people who insist they are much smarter than the rich CEOs are on message boards attempting to convince a bunch of nobodys how awesome they are in comparison, instead of just proving it.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Paul:
Gordy Gecko:
What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money...
OK I'll give you the gambling and crime thing but as for the legitimately obtained money, where do you think that came from? More inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money? It can't be turtles all the way down. At some point somebody who didn't already have a ton of money came up with a good idea and made a ton of money. I'm asking why that doesn't happen more often with all the idle hands sitting around. It isn't entirely a rhetorical question. Maybe the "public/private partnerships" have locked things up so tight newcomers can't get a toenail in. If so, maybe we need to fix that...

Basically being lucky.

If you were a supplier during WWII and you did a good job, you made a bundle. These are things like noodles, steel and wrought iron, clothing, very prosaic stuff.

If you were WASP after WWII in America, you've got it made. High wages, low taxes, low prices, pensions, comfortable retirements. A single wage earner could provide for a family, buy a house, a car or two, and send the kids through higher education.

These days, wages are relatively low, taxes are crazy, high prices (blame fuel costs), no prospects for pensions, working to the grave.

During the Dot Com boom, the money for all of that investment came from those old rich white guys. They didn't have a clue - investing in any hare-brained schemes. no business plans, no concept of how to make a return, crazy overvaluations. After the crash, some of them lost bundles and had to go back to work for a while, boo hoo.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

TheSheep said:

Here is something more funny: Your mom.

How did you know his mom is a comedian?

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Sigivald:
TheSheep said:
Here is something more funny: Your mom.

How did you know his mom is a comedian?

I had a mom who was a comedian, and let me assure you...uh, nm.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

1968:
If you were WASP after WWII in America, you've got it made. High wages, low taxes, low prices, pensions, comfortable retirements. A single wage earner could provide for a family, buy a house, a car or two, and send the kids through higher education.

Yeah, by 1955 (eg.) standards.

One TV, and not color. A small house (maybe 1200sf) on a long mortgage. A single car, which would cost, in adjusted dollars, about $12k - so, in other words, a Kia or a bottom-end Chevy, not a new X5.

And of course a single-income earner back then wouldn't be sending five kids through Harvard. More like they'd be going to a state school, and probably working while they did it[/i>].

Oh, and the other person in the family would naturally be working all day, every day [i]at home.

Let's not pretend that Everything Was Better In The Fifties, please. It wasn't.

Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?

Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
I really wonder sometimes. If people this stupid can run companies and be successful, what could a SMART person do? I swear, I've seen so many corporate WTFs in a few short years.. if and when I ever get my own company off the ground I'm going to run it right. 6 hour days (paid for 8 though), no micromanagement, flex time, can access any websites you want, no monitoring tools.. a little trust and respect goes a long way - people won't dick you over if you treat them like human beings and not pawns that exist to let you act out some feudal/plantation fantasy.

You may want to screen for sociopaths. They will, in fact, dick you over for any or no reason at all. And they can't care (Note: CAN'T care, physically incapable of caring) about doing so. 4 out of every 100 people; hiding amongst us in plain sight.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
I'm sure they would if they had the money or connections to fund it, and the charisma to sell it. Something the "idiot CEO" has in spades, and the reason why they win and you lose.

Yep. What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money that can be used to immediately get office space, hire people to shill the company, and handle all of that

Connections with people who can provide #1 above or who have connections of their own that can do #1.

Without #1 and #2 it's hard for Joe American to get his business off the ground, but Jack Money can do it easily with family money or savings.

Well, on the realistic side:

Are there incompetents who are CEOs because they inherited the company from daddy? Sure.

But there are plenty of people in America who have started companies with a few thousand dollars of savings, working out of their garage. (Apple comes to mind.) Yes, the son of a billionaire has an obvious advantage over the average guy. But if you're so smart, you could succeed despite not having all the advantages.

And saying, "Well, HE only managed to build a successful business because he had the charisma to attract investors" ... well, that's a pretty valuable skill, isn't it? Might as well say, "He only succeeded because he had the engineering talent to invent a new and useful product, the marketing skill to attract investors, and the administrative ability to organize the business. If it weren't for that, he never would have succeeded! I could build a succesful business too if only I wasn't so busy watching TV and taking naps on the sofa!"

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

I worked for a privately owned company (yet in the billion dollar range) where the owner required that he have the latest equipment and his terminal have the highest priority and his login have superuser rights.

He wasn't the trouble. However, he had the tendency to call in one of the finance guys for help on the computer. So the finance guy knew the owners login and password.

When the finance guys (and the new owner of course) got new PCs and Irma cards (this was a long time ago), they rejoiced that with the new database clients on their PCs, they didn't have to depend on the IT folks. So they started right in, writing infinite loops or queries that did multiple scans of the rather large database.

When one of his queries had taken over 2 hours already, the finance guy in question got a bright idea. He went to the owners new PC/Irma setup and tried the query. The entire mainframe was dedicated to solving the problem, and even the operators console was locked out. It took an hour or so for the operators to finally walk through the building and find the one working terminal with the culprit waiting impatiently for the query to finish.

D-Coder · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

frits:
Roberto:
mathrick:
Working as a PHP programmer that is.
Please try to show some sensitivity. I had a son who was a PHP programmer, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.
First of all, there is no such thing as "was a PHP programmer". That's not how it works. It's not a curable condition. I think it's you who could use sensitivity pointers.

"Sensitivity pointers"? const_cast, reinterpret_cast, dynamic_cast, OMG, what will those crazy C++ architects come up with next???

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

PSWorx:
- Company gives their IT department even lower priority than their cleaning staff.

Company is puzzled when some IT mishap occurs.

Company orders IT department to make sure they will stay ranked lower than the cleaners.

Why do you need satire when you have real life?

Yeah, to me, the real WTF is that the IT department who are, presumably, to blame for this bit of programming, did not find an easy workaround ages ago. Like giving one of their ranks the title voiceover specialist or something (thanks to someone above for the specific title).

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

It's nice to see that there, just as any other company, ("Cleaning" || "Cleaner") > "IT"

Coyne · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

I think he needs to look for someone named Dian or Ian:

Dian-New-Egg D-Ian-New-Egg

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

Right. Show me a working class job that supports a family today. Show me a teacher who could raise two kids on one salary, show me a garbageman who could come home at the end of the day and say "gosh, honey, maybe if you got a job we could take that vacation in Bermuda that we've been talking about". Two-income families are the norm now because one job's wages no longer cover living expenses in this country. Unions have been destroyed, last week I read that real wages have been stagnant for the last decade, the Anarchist Loony Party is actually making cutting wages their strong selling point in Wisconsin - and you're telling me that Mom and Dad are both out working because they want to buy a fancy car? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

trtrwtf:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

Right. Show me a working class job that supports a family today. Show me a teacher who could raise two kids on one salary, show me a garbageman who could come home at the end of the day and say "gosh, honey, maybe if you got a job we could take that vacation in Bermuda that we've been talking about". Two-income families are the norm now because one job's wages no longer cover living expenses in this country. Unions have been destroyed, last week I read that real wages have been stagnant for the last decade, the Anarchist Loony Party is actually making cutting wages their strong selling point in Wisconsin - and you're telling me that Mom and Dad are both out working because they want to buy a fancy car? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

To which fucking country are you referring, good sir?

Matt Westwood · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
trtrwtf:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

Right. Show me a working class job that supports a family today. Show me a teacher who could raise two kids on one salary, show me a garbageman who could come home at the end of the day and say "gosh, honey, maybe if you got a job we could take that vacation in Bermuda that we've been talking about". Two-income families are the norm now because one job's wages no longer cover living expenses in this country. Unions have been destroyed, last week I read that real wages have been stagnant for the last decade, the Anarchist Loony Party is actually making cutting wages their strong selling point in Wisconsin - and you're telling me that Mom and Dad are both out working because they want to buy a fancy car? Sorry, but that's just dumb.
To which fucking country are you referring, good sir?

Funny you should say that but I was actually going to say that myself, but was too busy coming up with:

"I had Dianne Wegg myself once, and let me assure you: it's no laughing matter."

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

"Kinda makes you wonder why there's boatloads of unemployed people but they aren't starting their own companies and doing it better than all the greedy doofus pricks they gripe about incessantly."

From what I have seen, its because they didn't have a boatload of family money to buy down the barriers to entry. I have met, maybe, 2 'self made' business owners. And as a consultant I met a fairly large number of business owners and 'C' level execs.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

StudentEternal:
"Kinda makes you wonder why there's boatloads of unemployed people but they aren't starting their own companies and doing it better than all the greedy doofus pricks they gripe about incessantly."
From what I have seen, its because they didn't have a boatload of family money to buy down the barriers to entry. I have met, maybe, 2 'self made' business owners. And as a consultant I met a fairly large number of business owners and 'C' level execs.

Perhaps you're a very bad consultant... Which fucking country are you from again?

Matt Westwood · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Finally figured it out. "Dianne Wegg" is in fact the codeword that IT users use when they want to sneak something past the powers that be.

The reason why IT is down at the bottom is because way-back-when they abused their privileges. So they had all their privileges stripped away by the CEO who made sure that nobody would ever get a higher privilege than him, by picking a number he couldn't count to on his fingers, toes, nose, tongue, dick and balls together.

IT, as a punishment, for ever after had to be assigned a priority even lower than the cleaners.

Till one of the IT crowd invented the name "Dianne Wegg". All you have to do, to get a priority higher than the cleaners, higher even than HR (but not as high as security, that's asking for trouble) was to submit as "Dianne Wegg".

But why Dianne Wegg? Because it's an anagram of "Engine Dawg", IT slang for hardware engineer.

Matt Westwood · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

trtrwtf:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

Right. Show me a working class job that supports a family today. Show me a teacher who could raise two kids on one salary, show me a garbageman who could come home at the end of the day and say "gosh, honey, maybe if you got a job we could take that vacation in Bermuda that we've been talking about". Two-income families are the norm now because one job's wages no longer cover living expenses in this country. Unions have been destroyed, last week I read that real wages have been stagnant for the last decade, the Anarchist Loony Party is actually making cutting wages their strong selling point in Wisconsin - and you're telling me that Mom and Dad are both out working because they want to buy a fancy car? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

One of the really annoying things is that when working class people actually do go on holiday (as they do in their droves from our sweet land: Marbella, Torremolinos, Disneyland, etc. etc.) they do nothing but complain (the sun's too hot, the food's foreign, the people don't talk proper) and get absolutely fucking paralytically drunk.

Mind, it's good like that. When all the fucking chavs have pissed off on holiday, it leaves dear old England a bit more pleasant for their absence.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?

That's easy. One to make the money, the other to make enough to pay the taxes. Seriously, when over 40% of your income goes to one type of tax or another, it is like you are working two days a week (40% of your time) to pay taxes. Monday and Friday of every week, you're working for the man, not for yourself.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

NC:
he had the tendency to call in one of the finance guys for help on the computer.

And why not? When I need help with my payroll deductions, I go straight to the janitors.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Now, if this operation were, say, a semiconductor fab, the "Cleaning" staff may very well be operations in charge of the clean room... oh never mind

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

StudentEternal:
"Kinda makes you wonder why there's boatloads of unemployed people but they aren't starting their own companies and doing it better than all the greedy doofus pricks they gripe about incessantly."
From what I have seen, its because they didn't have a boatload of family money to buy down the barriers to entry.

You're stuck in a loop! Where did this alleged boatload of family money that is allegedly used to start every successful business come from?

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

They seem to already check for the words "Director" and "Senior" in the title. The IT Department probably already has a chain of command in place.

My assumption would be that the finance team wouldn't be getting requests that often from just your average entry-level IT guy. If we need to buy a new server, I'd hope that somebody's boss might have to sign off on it. This system might even be put in place specifically to encourage low level IT guys to follow the chain of command until you can get one of your bosses with the word 'Senior' or 'Director' in their title to approve the request.

And we don't all need to have such a condescending attitude about cleaning staff being ranked higher than IT. They keep the building habitable. I've seen how we geeks live, and have respect for anyone that cleans up after us.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

We need more lemon Pledge.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Yazeran:
What I would like to know, is how the TITLE could be 'Dianne Wegg'.....
If checked against the name I coudld kinda understand how that evolved (Some person in HR pissed off about her either too high or too low rank....)

Yazeran

Plan: To go to Mars one day with a hammer

or how PART of the title could be 'Diane Wegg'....

elseif(strcmp($title, 'Dianne Wegg')==0)

would be more efficient </start fight> <disclaimer> The views expressed are not necessarily those of the author, and may vary from time to time. </disclaimer>

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

ggeens:
So we have:

Replacing the (I assume documented) database table by a hardcoded list: devious

Relying on free text descriptions: fragile

Attempt to single out one employee (probably boosts the priority of the "Assistant to Diane Wegg"): stupid

Leaving a nonsensical and unused SQL statement in the code: priceless

Or that.

Matt Westwood · 2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Paul:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
That's easy. One to make the money, the other to make enough to pay the taxes. Seriously, when over 40% of your income goes to one type of tax or another, it is like you are working two days a week (40% of your time) to pay taxes. Monday and Friday of every week, you're working for the man, not for yourself.

The alternative to paying taxes is, of course, to have to finance every damn part of the infrastructure yourself. I'd be a little annoyed if, whenever I wanted to get a shipment of raw materials from somewhere else to my factory, I had to send out a team of workers to mend the road first. Having paid my taxes, at least I can reasonably expect the road to be passable between there and here, knowing that the responsibility for that has been shelved to someone else. And so on.

Admittedly most of everybody's taxes are to pay off the debt that the gubmint have incurred going to war. Or, in the case of the US, into space as well, which unfortunately hasn't paid off yet (although if as much effort had been poured into setting up the infrastructure to go asteroid mining as went into the futile wars that we Western nations indulged in since 1945, we might sorted that latter issue out by now).

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
Typical corporate bullshit. CEO has the highest, despite probably being the least important person there (seriously, even executive I've met seemed to be a blowhard who did nothing at all but HAD to have admin/root access to everything, HAD to have any and all requests executed posthaste even if something was more important, and overall was just a petty tyrant with an ego complex), the people who keep the fucking company running (i.e. IT) gets shafted nonstop and are considered the lowest pieces of shit in the company even though without IT they'd be in the stone age.
I really wonder sometimes. If people this stupid can run companies and be successful, what could a SMART person do? I swear, I've seen so many corporate WTFs in a few short years.. if and when I ever get my own company off the ground I'm going to run it right. 6 hour days (paid for 8 though), no micromanagement, flex time, can access any websites you want, no monitoring tools.. a little trust and respect goes a long way - people won't dick you over if you treat them like human beings and not pawns that exist to let you act out some feudal/plantation fantasy.

WOW. Chip on shoulder.

6 hour days is what most people work. It is only timesheeting "patrols" that make us believe we work 8. People at work for 8 hours cannot possibly claim to do 8 hours work.
Some people need micromanagement. One of the problems in management is that different things work for different people. I agree most managers appear hopeless, but it's often interesting to see that different managers with totally different approaches can still manage to get (or perhaps fail to get) the same results...
Flex time exists implicitly everywhere I've ever worked. I've even worked places that claim not to have flex time, but every manager I've had is happy to let me come and go as I please provided the work I'm being paid to do is done
Access to all websites is a slippery slope. While many studies do show that allowing social media sites can boost morale and even appear to raise productivity in some people, allowing access to all sites means that employees may (there's always a bad egg) use your resources to access the sites they are scared to access from home (and pr0n isn't necessarily the biggest concern here)
Monitoring tools are necessary, not for internal audits, but for traceability should someone have done something really stupid on the websites you've allowed them access to. It's not a good look to have your company viewed as harboring terrorists.

While I agree that many (most, even) people respond well to being shown trust, there are always some that exploit that trust.

I remember a big war on this site sometime last month about freedom being the main cause of anarchy. Or perhaps your suggesting a more communistic approach?

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Gordy Gecko:
I'm sure they would if they had the money or connections to fund it, and the charisma to sell it. Something the "idiot CEO" has in spades, and the reason why they win and you lose.

Yep. What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money that can be used to immediately get office space, hire people to shill the company, and handle all of that

Connections with people who can provide #1 above or who have connections of their own that can do #1.

Without #1 and #2 it's hard for Joe American to get his business off the ground, but Jack Money can do it easily with family money or savings.

But how many of the people who own these companies are Jack Money, and how many started as as Joe American?

CEO's might well have money and connections, but not many were born with them. They have gained money and connections through their work. To suggest that they have bought their jobs is (in most cases) a little ridiculous.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Bill:
Buddy:
Reminds me of a story. Way back when companies could make a living printing paper reports and mailing them out via snail-mail, there was a huge run being done on the industrial printer. The application would queue them as separate small PDF files. The industrial printer would be running all day, devoted to those jobs.
For anything else to print, we had two crappy printers: "Cleaning Wire" an HP which showed that message for a good portion of the morning until it eventually decided to print and "POS" which got that title about two weeks after we bought it. At any time, both of these printers were usually always a heartbeat from failing.

With the extra load, sure enough both our small printers died that day. People were panicking, "I need my Gantt chart but there are a thousand documents ahead of it." Some resorted to going to Staples or wherever and printing out there.

People in IT just clicked their documents in the personal queue and right where it said priority, gave it a notch up from 1 to 2, and specified to output to the special purpose tray. Few seconds later, out it comes, pick it up, Bob's your uncle.Some non-IT saw us going to the printer seemingly just moments after printing, and asked how we got our printouts so fast, we just shrugged, "Lucky, I guess." or give some silly advice "You have to click it right."

This was a place similar to the story where IT got treated like shit, so you can bet no one there told non-IT. After all, you'll get them using it all the time and eventually defaulting their jobs to 99, and then you be back at square one.
I know...I had a cousin who was retarded, and let me assure you: it is no laughing matter.

I had a nephew who was retarded....Oh

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

1968:
Paul:
Gordy Gecko:
What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money...
OK I'll give you the gambling and crime thing but as for the legitimately obtained money, where do you think that came from? More inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money? It can't be turtles all the way down. At some point somebody who didn't already have a ton of money came up with a good idea and made a ton of money. I'm asking why that doesn't happen more often with all the idle hands sitting around. It isn't entirely a rhetorical question. Maybe the "public/private partnerships" have locked things up so tight newcomers can't get a toenail in. If so, maybe we need to fix that...

Basically being lucky.

If you were a supplier during WWII and you did a good job, you made a bundle. These are things like noodles, steel and wrought iron, clothing, very prosaic stuff.

If you were WASP after WWII in America, you've got it made. High wages, low taxes, low prices, pensions, comfortable retirements. A single wage earner could provide for a family, buy a house, a car or two, and send the kids through higher education.

These days, wages are relatively low, taxes are crazy, high prices (blame fuel costs), no prospects for pensions, working to the grave.

During the Dot Com boom, the money for all of that investment came from those old rich white guys. They didn't have a clue - investing in any hare-brained schemes. no business plans, no concept of how to make a return, crazy overvaluations. After the crash, some of them lost bundles and had to go back to work for a while, boo hoo.

Sure, the investment may come from the old rich white guys (and therefore some profit goes back to them), but they are simply investors. It's the people who convinced those investors who are making the decisions.

ie It's we're still not in a position where people have been lucky enough to inherit positions running the show.

Interesting that you mention investors. Don't you think the very idea of investors means (as it did in the dot com boom) that a go-getter like yourself may be able to convince someone else to spend their money on your great ideas, reducing (to nil potentially) the capital you have to outlay?
Sure, it's hard work convincing people to invest, and it's probably even harder to actually run a company, but I'll let you believe that if only you had millions of dollars you could make millions of dollars by keeping employees happy...

There's two types of people in this world:

Those who make excuses
Those who do stuff

It reminds me of a quote I once saw on a plaque: "They didn't know it couldn't be done, so they went ahead and did it"

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Jay:
Gordy Gecko:
I'm sure they would if they had the money or connections to fund it, and the charisma to sell it. Something the "idiot CEO" has in spades, and the reason why they win and you lose.

Yep. What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money that can be used to immediately get office space, hire people to shill the company, and handle all of that

Connections with people who can provide #1 above or who have connections of their own that can do #1.

Without #1 and #2 it's hard for Joe American to get his business off the ground, but Jack Money can do it easily with family money or savings.

Well, on the realistic side:

Are there incompetents who are CEOs because they inherited the company from daddy? Sure.

But there are plenty of people in America who have started companies with a few thousand dollars of savings, working out of their garage. (Apple comes to mind.) Yes, the son of a billionaire has an obvious advantage over the average guy. But if you're so smart, you could succeed despite not having all the advantages.

And saying, "Well, HE only managed to build a successful business because he had the charisma to attract investors" ... well, that's a pretty valuable skill, isn't it? Might as well say, "He only succeeded because he had the engineering talent to invent a new and useful product, the marketing skill to attract investors, and the administrative ability to organize the business. If it weren't for that, he never would have succeeded! I could build a succesful business too if only I wasn't so busy watching TV and taking naps on the sofa!"

I'm not even convinced the son of a billionaire has that much of an advantage. Sure they have upfront capital which gets them started, and may have a seemingly infinite supply of funds which they pump through the business, but it seems this puts them in a more likely position to lose big time than win big time. People who have had to work hard to get somewhere (ie not the rich-kid) usually appreciate the value of money more, and are probably more likely to use it wisely. The rich-kid, on the other hand, is more likely to spend friviously early (possibly overestimating the potential of the business).

We could play a game, you name someone who has inherited success, and we'll find someone who created success. We'll start with the one someone already mentioned: Steve Jobs

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Yuri:
Jay:
Gordy Gecko:
I'm sure they would if they had the money or connections to fund it, and the charisma to sell it. Something the "idiot CEO" has in spades, and the reason why they win and you lose.

Yep. What all of these idiots have in spades is one or more of:

Money from inheritance/past companies/lottery/drug money that can be used to immediately get office space, hire people to shill the company, and handle all of that

Connections with people who can provide #1 above or who have connections of their own that can do #1.

Without #1 and #2 it's hard for Joe American to get his business off the ground, but Jack Money can do it easily with family money or savings.

Well, on the realistic side:

Are there incompetents who are CEOs because they inherited the company from daddy? Sure.

But there are plenty of people in America who have started companies with a few thousand dollars of savings, working out of their garage. (Apple comes to mind.) Yes, the son of a billionaire has an obvious advantage over the average guy. But if you're so smart, you could succeed despite not having all the advantages.

And saying, "Well, HE only managed to build a successful business because he had the charisma to attract investors" ... well, that's a pretty valuable skill, isn't it? Might as well say, "He only succeeded because he had the engineering talent to invent a new and useful product, the marketing skill to attract investors, and the administrative ability to organize the business. If it weren't for that, he never would have succeeded! I could build a succesful business too if only I wasn't so busy watching TV and taking naps on the sofa!"
I'm not even convinced the son of a billionaire has that much of an advantage. Sure they have upfront capital which gets them started, and may have a seemingly infinite supply of funds which they pump through the business, but it seems this puts them in a more likely position to lose big time than win big time. People who have had to work hard to get somewhere (ie not the rich-kid) usually appreciate the value of money more, and are probably more likely to use it wisely. The rich-kid, on the other hand, is more likely to spend friviously early (possibly overestimating the potential of the business).

We could play a game, you name someone who has inherited success, and we'll find someone who created success. We'll start with the one someone already mentioned: Steve Jobs

Sorry got carried away. The game was aimed at the crowd who thinks money will make them successful, not at Jay who seems to share my opinion....

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

trtrwtf:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
Turns out people like money, and what money gets them. They like more room, nicer cars, cable TV and internet access, vacations that aren't "drive someplace and stay in cheap motels"...

Right. Show me a working class job that supports a family today. Show me a teacher who could raise two kids on one salary, show me a garbageman who could come home at the end of the day and say "gosh, honey, maybe if you got a job we could take that vacation in Bermuda that we've been talking about". Two-income families are the norm now because one job's wages no longer cover living expenses in this country. Unions have been destroyed, last week I read that real wages have been stagnant for the last decade, the Anarchist Loony Party is actually making cutting wages their strong selling point in Wisconsin - and you're telling me that Mom and Dad are both out working because they want to buy a fancy car? Sorry, but that's just dumb.

What you mean working class? I work....

but seriously (if you mean what I think you mean), I know many truck drivers, sparkies, plumbers etc who probably make more than what I do - and I take home enough to look after my family.

There may be a more diverse range (ie greater spread) in wages, however I don't think everyone is worse off. Gus the garbageman wouldn't have come home in the 50s to say that they could finally make a holiday to Bermuda either...

Surviving on low salaries (or, more to the point, single incomes) is as easy (or difficult, if you prefer) as it always has been. It might mean buying generic food or clothes rather than brand names but it's not impossible. I've always been surprised how many people I meet on Government Benefits seem to have nice flashy phones, go play poker machines and can afford to smoke yet complain they can't feed their family. It's about priorities, and the X generation (though we seem to prefer to blame the Y generation) seems to have developed an assumption that having a job should somehow allow us to spend money as though we are millionaires - and when we can't afford the lifestyle we want, we cry poverty rather than sacrificing a few niceties now for a better lifestyle later...

OOPS, I think I'm on the wrong forum...goodbye

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
The alternative to paying taxes is, of course, to have to finance every damn part of the infrastructure yourself.

But I don't want every damn part of the infrastructure!

Matt Westwood:
Admittedly most of everybody's taxes are to pay off the debt that the gubmint have incurred going to war.

Um, yeah, that would be one of the parts I don't want.

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Paul:
Sigivald:
Wanna know why so many more families are two-income now, compared to then?
That's easy. One to make the money, the other to make enough to pay the taxes. Seriously, when over 40% of your income goes to one type of tax or another, it is like you are working two days a week (40% of your time) to pay taxes. Monday and Friday of every week, you're working for the man, not for yourself.

Are you talking seriusly? you live really in EUA. Or you are from Brazil?

2011-09-19 Reply Admin

Paul:
That's easy. One to make the money, the other to make enough to pay the taxes. Seriously, when over 40% of your income goes to one type of tax or another, it is like you are working two days a week (40% of your time) to pay taxes. Monday and Friday of every week, you're working for the man, not for yourself.

Top US income tax rate in the 50's was 90%. Just sayin'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States

The Importance Scale and Dianne Wegg

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