• BoA (unregistered)

    Must be Bank of America...

  • Mexi-Fry (unregistered)

    Seems to me that under many circumstances, the more "qualified" someone is, the more power they have, and the more they inevitably wreak of ignorance. I don't know why it is, and if the shoe doesn't fit then please don't wear it. In my 11 years writing software professionally, I have come across at least 10 IT director level people who had a fat degree and not a brain cell to back it up.

    This is just a thought. I wonder if anyone else feels this way?

    Captcha: paratus ... ??? I think I am going to need to get a dictionary if I want to keep posting comments.

  • mike (unregistered)

    thats a p.o.s. network if a webcam takes it out.

  • (cs) in reply to Anon Fred
    Anon Fred:
    There is a significant difference between "this is what everybody(*) does" and "this is The Law." If you're any good at gathering requirements you should be able to figure it out.
    Don't whine to me about it, I understood it just fine. Plus, he said "employment practices," not "this is what everyone does."

    If you're any good at reading comprehension, you should be able to figure this out instead of whining about minutiae.

  • Daniel (unregistered)

    Reminds me of a story from school back in the nineties. Me and a few friends got ourselves root access on our school's Linux network. We didn't do anything stupid or break anything, but still we got caught. Unfortunately around that time the network went down and the computer rooms were closed for a few days. Some pupils couldn't study for their tests, and their parents were quite upset. So our teachers were happy to blame us and we got reprimands, too. Collect three and you get thrown out of school. (Ok, we never even got a second, but still...)

    To our teachers' defense, we really had great computer science courses and I still profit from them today. And I guess they really believed we broke the network.

  • (cs) in reply to Cam S.

    Let me get this right:

    A well connected incompetent makes blind accusations to divert attention from real problems he can't solve and throws those with more integrity under the bus claiming he is dead sure he is right despite all evidence and common sense?

    I never knew Dubya moonlighted as a network engineer!

  • (cs)

    Right up until I got to the line about picking his nose, I was thinking "jeez, if that were me I'd have to be really careful about not picking my nose..."

  • (cs)

    Hmmm... so this bank suffers badly from network outages ey? Mwahahaha!

    Hackers unite! The Internet Gods are angry and must be appeased with luddite blood! Let them know that hell hath no fury like a real DDOS attack. Destroy the indidels; unleash the zombie nets; storm their firewalls; drop their tables; burn their backups!

    ... Oh, uh what was that bank's name again? I, uh... want to open an acount... or two...

  • Jim (unregistered)

    Take it from an old UNIX man: Karma will eventually whack the nitwit network dweeb with a clue-by-four. You did the right thing even if it sucked at the time. There's no better way of saying "BITE ME" to your detractors than being increasingly happy and successful. People like your netweenie ... I look 'em right in the eye and say, "Man, it must suck to be you."

    /Works from home //12Mb/s internet ///No webcab though

  • Billy Oblivion (unregistered) in reply to FredSaw

    You must not have kids.

    They don't get hungry three times a day, they get more-or-less full three times a day.

  • earl colby pottinger (unregistered)

    Maybe I miss the message that mentioned that, but you all seem to be missing another option.

    I also received a letter of reprimand at work about a month and a half ago with a list of complaints from upper management, I signed it.

    BBBBUUUUTTTT!!!!!

    I also wrote on the same form in what support items were missing from the company.

    So where they had a complaint about my clothing I pointed out that the company was to supply clothing items, hat (with logo) and badge but still had not been supplied them to me after i have been working for eleven months so far.

    Complaint about my speed of operations has a note from me pointing that the supplied equipment is missing parts that slow things down, supply the parts or accept the speed.

    Complaint about me not following company safety procedures points out that the company still has not supplied me with safety equipment in my size. Thus, I shut everything down, and do it my way even if it takes twice as long. I would love to see them explain to the health and safety board how they expect me to work on running equipment without that stuff.

    There were a number of other items, what I have noted is since management has noted that I have over a page of and a half in notes attached to their reprimand form that they have become very nice to me.

    And no, I am not worried about them trying to sneak a way for me to lose my job since I already plan to leave in June.

  • Packrat (unregistered)

    With management like this, I'd guess these idiots got severely mauled in the subprime crisis.

    A bank operated by senior managers this unable to tell good advice from bad is not a good place to put your money. Unless senior management has the organic skills to tell bullshit from reality, all it takes to bring down a financial institution is one smooth talking incompetent (or malevolent) in the wrong place.

  • (cs) in reply to Justice

    Surely the real problem with what happened is that the bank has a broken network, no idea what actually broke it and no intention of fixing it.

  • Lassi Hippeläinen (unregistered)
    Comment held for moderation.
  • Cabbage (unregistered) in reply to Cam S.
    Cam S.:
    embolden

    What?

  • (cs) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    Nazca:
    Talkie Toaster:
    Nether:
    Go ahead, ask me anything and be astounded at the answers I can provide! My expertise knows no bounds!

    Would you like some toast?

    No one around here wants any toast. Not now, not ever. We don't want no buns, baps, baguettes or bagels. No croissants, no hot cross buns. And definitely no smegging flapjacks.

    Ah, so you’re a waffle man!

    See? He's completely obsessed! This is what caused the accident in the first place!

  • Jeppe (unregistered) in reply to Cam S.

    Your story not entertaining at all. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk. Please don't post verbose stories with such weak WTF. I spend my precious time reading expecting something good. I could have been working ffs ^^

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Anon Fred
    Anon Fred:
    OldMan:
    By law, previous employers cannot comment on specifics like that, only whether or not they'd hire you again.

    The ignorance of employment practices here is staggering.

    Irony!

    Can you show us "the law" that says employers cannot speak to whatever they want?

    And as always, when discussing law on the Internet, it's always worth mentioning in which country that law applies, otherwise you're sort of wasting your time.

  • (cs) in reply to Jeppe
    Jeppe:
    Your story not entertaining at all. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk. Please don't post verbose stories with such weak WTF. I spend my precious time reading expecting something good. I could have been working ffs ^^
    Yes, how dare we waste your time with interesting stories from the world of IT. I'm very sorry you had to put up with reading an interesting story that quite definitely made you think "wtf?". I'll lobby Alex tomake sure it doesn't happen again.
  • (cs) in reply to Keb
    Keb:
    Cian:
    I worked for a division of British Telecom where that was the official response for reference requests - didn't stop me getting my current job...
    Its pretty standard in the UK for most empolyers to have this policy now as there is some odd HR law/government policy where employers are not allowed to give negative impressions...
    I have a previous employer who suddenly started sending references that said "I confirm that JimM worked for [our company] from [start date] to [end date]." I stopped using them as a reference ASAP. My last reference (Yesterday in fact - new job for me!) was a glowing recommendation that painted me to be some kind of Web Development Support Technician god; which was odd, because I only see my manager here about once every 6 weeks and I'm sure he has no idea what I'm doing 90% of the time. On another tack, I do have a friend who was denied a job on the basis of a reference from her previous employer: I believe in that instance her employment was terminated for not meeting the required standards in the probationary period (quite unfairly - she was set unreasonable targets, and when she pointed this out and asked for further support her boss ignored her). That's another instance where she should probably have sued (I've had one of those too), but the problem with suing is a) it's expensive; and b) it makes you look like an employment liability if you walk into an interview and say "No, I didn't get on with my last boss and they were mean to me so I sued them.".
  • ape (unregistered)

    I would have wrote a signing statement on the repremand. I did that while working at a nursing home as a janitor. I slept completely through one day because they had been working me like a dog. I noted on it that I had explicitly stated that I could not do heavly lifting, and we had been ordered to move furniture around (50+ beds in the joint) and it took too much out of me.

  • NeoMojo (unregistered) in reply to Cabbage
    Cabbage:
    Cam S.:
    embolden

    What?

    He said, "embolden".

  • (cs)

    IANAL.

    I understand why Cam made the decision that he made, but I'd just like to point out that what the network engineer and the 'apparat' did in blaming Cam for the problems was libel (in the form of the written disciplinary action). Since the statements were Defamation per se, he doesn't even have to prove any damages or actual defamation. The company would have to prove that the statements were actually true in order to successfully defend themselves.

    1. Get scapegoated.
    2. ...
    3. PROFIT!

    I know that it's career suicide, but I just wanted to point out that option to people who find themselves in this situation while simultaneously not giving a f--- anymore.

  • (cs) in reply to Jim
    Jim:
    ///No webcab though
    So, what... you're flagging one down on the internet superhighway? TAXI!!!111!1!one1!!!1
  • (cs) in reply to Jeppe
    Jeppe:
    Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk.
    Don't worry about it. Sometimes these things are just genetic.
  • (cs) in reply to davidyorke
    davidyorke:
    1. Get scapegoated. 2. ... 3. PROFIT!
    Roffle-mayo!
  • (cs) in reply to Anon Fred
    Anon Fred:
    OldMan:
    By law, previous employers cannot comment on specifics like that, only whether or not they'd hire you again.

    The ignorance of employment practices here is staggering.

    Irony!

    Can you show us "the law" that says employers cannot speak to whatever they want?

    hrm... now what would I search for if I want to know what laws exist in the United States regarding privacy. Not knowing anything about the US legal system, I'd guess that the 1974 Privacy Act would be a good place to start...

  • Yanman (unregistered)

    So, what really took the network down?

  • (cs) in reply to brodie
    brodie:
    What, you didn't (or still don't) understand what he was saying, so you have to latch onto pedantic technicalities to soothe your pride?

    I know that I didn't have any trouble following what he said...

    Neither did I.
    OldMan:
    By law, previous employers cannot comment on specifics like that, only whether or not they'd hire you again.
    Not taking it out of context, either, that's his entire paragraph, and it's still completely false.

  • (cs) in reply to Yanman
    Yanman:
    So, what really took the network down?
    25 directors, 5 VPs, a CIO, a CEO, and a few other vaguely described and exorbitantly-paid positions, each browsing a few dozen pr0n sites, which each in turn opened a few dozen popups, each of which opened 10 more popups upon being closed, each of which etc. etc. etc.
  • Blue (unregistered)

    Geez that was depressing.

    What an awful story. Surely a network manager that clueless should not be allowed to keep their job.

    I'm going to go drink myself into a stupor and try and forget. :-)

  • PaperCut (unregistered)

    If you can't pay the mortgage, feed your kids, pay for their ballet lessons (or whatever else their little souls have become accustomed to) for the time it would reasonably take you to find a new job, then you have bigger problems than unfair management.

    Now, I do read the news, so I'm not surprised at the fact that so many people appear to be financially negligent, but I am a little surprised that so few people think it's anything to be ashamed of. I am especially surprised at people using 'I have kids' as an excuse for this, rather than thinking that it bumps the situation from 'imprudent' to 'culpable'.

  • TInkerghost (unregistered) in reply to Nobody
    Nobody:
    If his boss was politically capable at all, he would have turned this around on the Network Group manager and made him look like a complete fool.

    It sucks working for a boss with no political savvy.

    You obviously don't have much experience with corporate politics. I have worked in companies with one or 2 people who's every word was divine law. If they were to declare that the sky is green with purple pokadots, then that's the way it is. In these situations, reality is a distant second to perception, and arguing the matter isn't going to change things. Upper management doesn't usually know the technical details of anything, and they don't want to. Their jobs are to coordinate the various departments and make sure the whole company is working together. They hire & use technical people to make sure the details are being taken care of. The problem is that sometimes, they get so wrapped up in the 'I don't need to know the details' mentality that they forget how to think. If management is in this mode, then whatever the person they hired to manage the network tells them is TRUE and anything contradictory is FALSE. I've seen this doubly for consultants. One ISP I worked for deliberately delayed maintenance on the mail servers until they started getting complaints - because a consultant told them that they could get higher customer satisfaction ratings from customers who's complaints were easily/quickly resolved than they could from customers with no complaints.

  • (cs) in reply to PaperCut
    PaperCut:
    If you can't pay the mortgage, feed your kids, pay for their ballet lessons (or whatever else their little souls have become accustomed to) for the time it would reasonably take you to find a new job, then you have bigger problems than unfair management.
    ...said the guy with no idea how long it will take to find another job.

    My first IT position was in a relatively small town (population 80,000) where the average income was around $22,000 (in 1996). There were exactly two places that employed programmers. The town also had a university which annually spewed out quite a few CS graduates, many of whom were looking to stick around and pick up a few bucks before heading off somewhere else. Consequently, IT salaries were unimpressive, to say the least, but if you didn't like it, you could quit; there would always be another n00b to take your place.

    I didn't have the resources to leave town for quite some time after I took that job. When I finally did get away, five years later, I immediately more than doubled my income upon moving to the DFW metroplex. But before you can do that, you have to have the means to move your stuff, rent a place, put down a deposit, turn on the utilities (possibly involving more deposits), and feed yourself and anyone under your protective wing.

    Yeah, jobs might be readily available, if you live in a metroplex or an IT mecca. Not everyone does.

  • (cs)

    Help! Google is performing a DoS attack on me!!

  • Decepticon (unregistered) in reply to FredSaw
    FredSaw:
    Yeah, jobs might be readily available, if you live in a metroplex or an IT mecca. Not everyone does.

    Metroplex? How about Trypticon? ;-)

  • (cs) in reply to Decepticon
    Decepticon:
    Metroplex? How about Trypticon? ;-)
    Metro Rex?
  • syberghost (unregistered) in reply to OldMan

    Doesn't even matter if you're in an "At Will" state or not. Refusing to sign it would be insubordination, grounds for dismissal anywhere.

    Best thing to do is sign it and ask to include your own letter with it. All the signature indicates is that you received the letter and read it; it does not in any way imply you agreed with it.

  • Yarr (unregistered) in reply to syberghost
    syberghost:
    Doesn't even matter if you're in an "At Will" state or not. Refusing to sign it would be insubordination, grounds for dismissal anywhere.

    Best thing to do is sign it and ask to include your own letter with it. All the signature indicates is that you received the letter and read it; it does not in any way imply you agreed with it.

    Then the REAL WTF is the concept of "insubordination". This isn't the Army or a fucking pirate ship!

  • (cs) in reply to Yarr
    Yarr:
    This isn't the Army or a fucking pirate ship!
    * Trying to picture one pirate ship humping another *
  • Chris James (unregistered) in reply to Cam S.

    I think this was probably the most depressing WTF I have ever read.

  • (cs) in reply to OldMan
    OldMan:
    dpm:
    You didn't limit it to slander, you said "cannot comment", period, which is ridiculous.
    Regardless of any pedantry in which you are choosing to engage,

    Pointing out that you said "it is illegal" when the truth is "it is against company policy in most cases" is not pedantry. It is pointing out that you don't really know what is going on, so taking advice from you is foolish.

  • Paul W. Homer (unregistered)

    When I was younger I definitely would have taken the chance and not signed. Being fired is bad, but suing a bank for illegal dismissal is great. Might get a whole year's worth of salary. Now that I am older, it would really depend on how much I liked the job, or how many jobs are out there. It becomes harder when you have more to lose, doesn't it.

    Paul.

  • saepius (unregistered) in reply to anonymous
    anonymous:
    imMute:
    Sounds about like the time that my school district tried to blame me for saturating their fiber link with a single computer running uTorrent. Supposedly I took down 3 of the 5 schools. Go figure.

    I actually did saturate my high school's 1.5 Mbps DSL line torrenting Knoppix one day. ;-)

    It was pretty funny. Once I noticed people were having connectivity problems, I immediately stopped the torrent. The computers teacher knew (because I told him what was going on, so he wouldn't be concerned it was a connectivity problem).

    Probably a month later, my advisor called my parents (at home, in the evening). He was calling for other reasons as well (mostly a handful of ways that a geek could get distracted from their schoolwork ;-), but one of his complaints was that I was using "powerful search engines". It took me a while to figure out that he was talking about BitTorrent, but it had filtered through my computers teacher, who probably tried to explain it to him in a non-technical way.

    I have a story like this involving the big ass 64 way sun and one of the "let us use your free CPU cycles" programs.

    It ended in a short chat with the sysadmin and me promising not to do it again.

    The latter was mostly due to the crappy results.

  • Nobody (unregistered) in reply to TInkerghost
    TInkerghost:
    You obviously don't have much experience with corporate politics. I have worked in companies with one or 2 people who's every word was divine law. If they were to declare that the sky is green with purple pokadots, then that's the way it is. In these situations, reality is a distant second to perception, and arguing the matter isn't going to change things.

    I dare say I have far more experience with it than you. Politics is all about the ability to manipulate perception, and getting to the right people to accomplish your goals. Having the truth on your side is never necessary, but it does help. The boss either was afraid to get too involved in the situation or just didn't know handle it effectively, or both.

    In my opinion, it is my boss's job to stand up for me and shield me from this kind of BS. I have worked for bosses that are great at this, and I've worked for weak-kneed, kowtowing yes-men. Given a choice, I'll work for the scoundrel who will stand up for me every time.

  • (cs) in reply to Jeppe
    Jeppe:
    Your story not entertaining at all. Sorry, I don't mean to be a jerk. Please don't post verbose stories with such weak WTF. I spend my precious time reading expecting something good. I could have been working ffs ^^

    Your post is not intelligent at all. Sorry, you are a total jerk. Please don't post idiotic posts with such weak words. I spend my precious time reading expecting people with brains to post here. I could have been ignoring you.

  • (cs) in reply to davidyorke
    davidyorke:
    IANAL.

    I understand why Cam made the decision that he made, but I'd just like to point out that what the network engineer and the 'apparat' did in blaming Cam for the problems was libel (in the form of the written disciplinary action). Since the statements were Defamation per se, he doesn't even have to prove any damages or actual defamation. The company would have to prove that the statements were actually true in order to successfully defend themselves.

    It's quite obvious YANAL. If you were, you wouldn't have posted such an irresponsible, erroneous, and plain stupid statement without any knowledge whatsoever of the content of the "written disciplinary action".

    Anyone with any brain at all would know that without having at least some verbatim content from the reprimand you can't make a judgement that it was libelous.

    Please go back to the playground, and let the smart grownups here talk in peace.

  • (cs) in reply to syberghost
    syberghost:
    Best thing to do is sign it and ask to include your own letter with it. All the signature indicates is that you received the letter and read it; it does not in any way imply you agreed with it.

    Again, use your brain before posting. As Cam didn't post the specific content of the reprimand, you don't know what it said, and therefore can't offer any advice about what he should or shouldn't have done.

    For all we know, it could have said "Cam intentionally degraded our network performance to the point of impacting our ability to do business, and is hereby informed that he will be liable for financial damages if it happens again." That's pretty specific about it being his fault, isn't it? And without additional knowledge about what it actually said, could in fact be representative of the content.

  • (cs) in reply to Yarr
    Yarr:
    Then the REAL WTF is the concept of "insubordination". This isn't the Army or a fucking pirate ship!

    Insubordination has nothing to do with the military or pirates. It simply means you failed to show the proper respect to someone in a position of authority, and/or refused to follow an instruction from that person. Try a dictionary.

  • PJs (unregistered)
    [H]e glanced at the oven clock. 8:35. ... [H]e'd still be at least ten minutes late for work. ... [H]is keys sitting on the drivers' seat of his truck. If he drove unreasonably, dangerously fast, he might still be able to get to work on time! ... Oh well, there was a silver lining. Working from home means no commute, no finding a parking spot, no changing out of your favorite robot PJs, no not watching Judge Judy and eating Doritos all day. ... Still, he could prove them wrong... Just as soon as he changed out of his PJs and moved the Doritos out of the shot.
    Something doesn't add up here. Was Cam really feverishly searching for his keys in his pajamas? And if so, he couldn't save enough time while getting ready (say, by skipping shaving, skipping breakfast, etc.) to avoid having to risk his and others' lives on the road? Either Cam needs to work on his morning routine, or this is yet another case of unnecessary embellishment that we so often have to suffer through in these tales. I understand that some introduction is necessary before getting to the meat of the story, but not to the point where one constantly wonders where the real story ends and the creative writing begins.

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