• Marlon (unregistered) in reply to pissed

    Anonymous:
    I found this site about 3 weeks ago, been reading a lot of the wtfs. Very entertaining stuff, lots of funny/insightful comments.

    ...and I'm fucking dumbfounded that little shits like the inimitable "Paula" or other mouth-breather wank-offs like the one responsible for this wtf actually continue to get paid for their incompetence when I can't even get a fucking interview.

    And yes, I'm much, much, better than the morons responsible for the "topics" discussed here, and no, that isn't saying much.

    The real WTF is that there are fuckups out there who are so incompetent at design/programming/development/basic problem solving that their profession is not developing software; it's being a fuckup.

    And they get paid for it.

    And I can't even get a fucking interview.

    Un-what-the-fucking believable.

     

    I think your problem is less to do with your ability (or that of others) but in the wording you use.  It may be wise to get someone to read your CV and remove inapropriate words.

    Good look with your search for employment.  Have you tried <FONT color=#0000cc>Official Tourette Syndrome (UK) Association </FONT>

  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to nickf
    nickf:
    Oh and Richard Nixon (if that IS your real name :p)
    "Mayonnaise is generally said to have been created by the chef of Louis François Armand du Plessis, duc de Richelieu in 1756, to celebrate the Duke's victory over the British at the port of Mahon"


    You use quotation marks but that passage appears nowhere on either of the pages you link to. I think it's pretty safe to assume you're just trying to steal credit from me with some underhanded quoting shenanigans or you're just incompetant. In either case, you have proven nothing.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Ken Nipper (cs) in reply to Jeff S
    Jeff S:
    Ken Nipper:
    Hmmmm.......guess the original programmer thought it was more efficient to type Ys and Ns than to do say.........LOGIC...........


    Holidays are *data* and should be stored in tables. 

    However, as mentioned, it appears that he is simply declaring every weekend a "Holiday" so in that case logic would work, I suppose.

    The guy who wrote this must be a fun guy to hang out with ... except for Monday-Friday or on any actual holiday that falls on a weekday, that is.


    At last someone who finally got my point.
  • Stan (unregistered) in reply to Richard Nixon

    Some 20 years ago a friend wrote a date utility in COBOL for all kinds of conversions, arithmetic, etc. It performs 19 different functions with 23 input and output fields. His goal was to minimize the number of instructions executed at any cost.  The longest path through the program is around 400 machine language instructions.

    He made a table of 1231 entries for days of the year using MMDD as index. In COBOL you can redefine parts of a field as other field, so it takes zero instructions to extract MMDD from YYYYMMDD. Many other common calculations were pre-calculated into tables. It has over 8000 lines of hand-coded data, under 500 lines of code.

    To judge something you have to know the definition of "quality" that was in use at the moment. For his goal of lightning speed it's pretty phenomenal quality and an amazing example of focusing on one quality attribute.

  • ParkinT (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon

    Richard Nixon:
    ParkinT:
    Why are there Braille markings on the Drive-up ATM?


    1.    For blind people being driven to the ATM.
    2.   Notice there is Braille on all ATMs, including those walk-up ones in the mall and at banks. Does it make sense to manufacture some ATMs with Braille and some without? No, of course not - make one mold, keep filling it.
    3.   Americans with Disabilities act is probably another reason.

    There, three reasons for you. Change your signature.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon

    Then, in America, how does a blind person VERIFY and COUNT the bills that come out of an ATM?

    They are all the same size and shape!

    {Yes, I have worked with the blind; there are many 'degrees' of legally defined blindness that do not include complete loss of sight. And the signature was meant to be read tongue-in-cheek, not literally }

  • ParkinT (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon

    Richard Nixon,

    I like your location (Earth).  Whenever I fill out a standard form that requests RACE, instead of checking one of the supplied boxes I write-in HUMAN.

  • Sam (unregistered) in reply to HatTrick
    Anonymous:

    I don't think "logic" is the way to go (not sure how you'd logically work out what the holidays would be, anyway -- plus, what happens when that "logic" changes?). 

     

    What do you mean you can't use logic to calculate the holidays? There are rules for figuring out holidays and when they fall each year, they don't generally change. 

     

    I didn't say you can't.  I just said I don't think it's a good idea.  I'd qualify that a bit further and say "unless the point of your app is to determine holiday dates".  There is a logic, but it's pretty individual per-holiday, for each new holiday one would potentially need to determine and write new logic, etc.  One would also need to be cognizant of international differences. 

  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:

    Richard Nixon,

    I like your location (Earth).  Whenever I fill out a standard form that requests RACE, instead of checking one of the supplied boxes I write-in HUMAN.



    No, I won't be your boyfriend!

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • ammoQ (cs) in reply to Sam

    If an application relies solely on calculated holidays, chances are that it will run into serious troubles. Political decisions like "dec 8 is a holidays, but shops are open anyways" quickly lead to more and more change request and software changes. Not to mention "inofficial" holidays.
    On the other hand, if there is database table with the holidays, it's pretty easy and safe to use the same calculations to insert the default values into that table, and let an admin do some corrections if necessary.

  • BBFire (cs)

    gargh!

  • VGR (cs) in reply to pissed
    Anonymous:
    And yes, I'm much, much, better than the morons responsible for the "topics" discussed here, and no, that isn't saying much.

    The real WTF is that there are fuckups out there who are so incompetent at design/programming/development/basic problem solving that their profession is not developing software; it's being a fuckup.


    The software world doesn't need you.  And it doesn't need me, either.  It doesn't need us and it doesn't want us.

    99% of software companies have no need of good programmers or architects, because they have no need of good software.

    Today's business model is not the traditional capitalist model, wherein you create the best product at the best price.  Today's business model is to manipulate the market any way you can.  Sole source contracts, bundling deals, corporate warfare, raping pension funds --- those are the skills that make a business successful.

    When you base your business on such things, the quality of the actual product is irrelevant, as long as it's not so bad that it lands you in court.  So there's no need for good software.  There's no need for maintainable software.  Therefore, there's no need for good programmers.

    Also, good programmers often require that the rest of their team do its job well, so they're not only unneeded, they're highly inconvenient.  They are an enemy of inertia.

    I call this "turd in a box" economics.

    It's probably obvious why this kind of business is harmful in the medium to long run, but it's the current reality nonetheless.
  • reed (cs) in reply to Jeff S
    Jeff S:


    Go ahead and use a formula to help you add entries to your holiday table, but to not store it anywhere and rely on dozens of calculations like these "on the fly" probably isn't the most efficient way to go, is it?  Do you really feel that this is "better" than simply storing the value in a table?  Ironically, you will end up using more space just to store and the *formulas* for these holidays rather than probably 10-15 years of actual data ! 



    It turns out that computers are actually very good at mathematics and boolean logic as well.   It also turns out that moving numbers between CPU registers and memory cache is really quite fast.  Who knew?

    (It might be useful to have the data precalculated in the database IF you want to use it as part of queries on other data that's in the database, though.)

  • Maurits (cs) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    Then, in America, how does a blind person VERIFY and COUNT the bills that come out of an ATM?


    VERIFY: That's easy.  ATMs only dispense $20 bills.
    COUNT: I'll let you figure this one out... :rolleyes:
  • Bus Raker (cs) in reply to Maurits

    Maurits:
    ParkinT:
    Then, in America, how does a blind person VERIFY and COUNT the bills that come out of an ATM?


    VERIFY: That's easy.  ATMs only dispense $20 bills.
    COUNT: I'll let you figure this one out... :rolleyes:

    In Vegas casinos they only dispense $100 bills.

  • Otto (cs) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    VERIFY: That's easy.  ATMs only dispense $20 bills.

    As stated, they give out 100's in Vegas. Also, many ATMs will dispense 10's as well if you ask it for, say, $30.

  • davewalthall (cs) in reply to Anon

    > Man, I want to work for that company.  You only have to work for 2 days and then you get 5 holidays!!

    Except that you have to work every single weekend, and worse, every single holiday!  You do get (non-holiday) M-F off, but you can't really hang out with your friends.

  • sammybaby (cs) in reply to Sam
    Anonymous:
    Anonymous:

    I don't think "logic" is the way to go (not sure how you'd logically work out what the holidays would be, anyway -- plus, what happens when that "logic" changes?). 

     

    What do you mean you can't use logic to calculate the holidays? There are rules for figuring out holidays and when they fall each year, they don't generally change. 

     

    I didn't say you can't.  I just said I don't think it's a good idea.  I'd qualify that a bit further and say "unless the point of your app is to determine holiday dates".  There is a logic, but it's pretty individual per-holiday, for each new holiday one would potentially need to determine and write new logic, etc.  One would also need to be cognizant of international differences. 

    Sam's right here. And I'm not saying so just because he has a good, trustworthy sounding name, although this is certainly a point in his favor.

    The fact is that determining holiday dates is a sort of one way equation. It's not difficult (although it can be tedious to do by hand: eg, Easter) to figure out what holidays fall on which days. But doing so is essentially a one way equation: given a list of dates, it can be a huge pain in the rear to figure out which holidays fall on those days. Example: April 13 2006 will be Passover. Without looking, what about April 13 2007? Or the day after that? Or even in that week?

    In most applications, the question isn't "When is Boxing Day," the question is "do I have to go to work tomorrow?"  And that's why table lookups make more sense than just computing them all on the fly.

    (Answer: in 2007, Passover falls on April 3.)

  • Bustaz Kool (cs) in reply to marvin_rabbit

    marvin_rabbit:
    Cool!  Can you show me the formula for Easter next?

    <FONT face="Courier New">No need to calculate Easter.  You just join to tblEaster:</FONT>

    <FONT face="Courier New">"NNNNNN....NNNNYNNN...NNNYNNN.....N"</FONT>

    <FONT face="Courier New">               |         |</FONT>

    <FONT face="Courier New">               |         V

    <FONT face="Courier New">               V         Easter (Canada)</FONT>

                   Easter (US)</FONT>

  • maldrich (cs) in reply to Otto

    5's, 10's and 20's stock many ATM's here in Seattle. Although, with some math, one could figure how many bills ought to arrive out the slot without looking at their values. Ask for $65, it seems like there ought to be four bills. No need for eyes there. Unless one of the supplies is empty in the machine, in which case you might get two 10's in place of a 20. The driving-a-car part remains a mystery, though.

    Ray Charles used to demand payment in specific bills so he could count them himself.

  • Bob_ (unregistered) in reply to Bustaz Kool

    A small pedantic point about peoples statements of the table naming:

    Holiday
    ETYMOLOGY: Anglo-Saxon haligdæg holy day

    Thus every weekend dedicated to the sabath could be considered a holy day. Might not explain Saturday, but we are half way there.

    http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/chref/chref.py/main?query=Holiday&title=21st&sourceid=Mozilla-search

  • HatTrick (cs) in reply to Gordo

    Anonymous:
    The various holidays can be calculated, but it's neither easy nor straightforward for a lot of them. To see how to do it, look at the formulas in the AltCal spreadsheet.

    Entering some goofy table like this WTF is not easy either.... create the formula once and it is good for all time.

  • $$$ (unregistered) in reply to maldrich
    maldrich:

    Ray Charles used to demand payment in specific bills so he could count them himself.


    Well that seems pointless, unless he requested all 1's.
  • Dancebert (cs) in reply to marvin_rabbit

    >Cool!  Can you show me the formula for Easter next?

    In VB.Net

            Public Function EasterDate(ByVal p_year As Integer) As Date

                Dim _days As Integer = (((255 - 11 * (p_year Mod 19)) - 21) Mod 30) + 21

                Dim _dtMarch1 As New DateTime(p_year, 3, 1)
                EasterDate = _dtMarch1.AddDays(_days _
                                + Convert.ToInt32(_days > 48) _
                                + 6 - ((p_year + p_year \ 4 + _days + Convert.ToInt32(_days > 48) + 1) Mod 7))

            End Function

     

  • Dan (unregistered) in reply to $$$

    All ones baby!

  • rbriem (cs) in reply to maldrich

    maldrich:
    5's, 10's and 20's stock many ATM's here in Seattle. Although, with some math, one could figure how many bills ought to arrive out the slot without looking at their values. Ask for $65, it seems like there ought to be four bills. No need for eyes there. Unless one of the supplies is empty in the machine, in which case you might get two 10's in place of a 20. The driving-a-car part remains a mystery, though.

    Ray Charles used to demand payment in specific bills so he could count them himself.

    I ate in a cafeteria once where the cashier was blind - he asked what was on your tray, he punched the numbers on the register, you told him what bills you were handing him, everything else was trays in the cash drawer. All honor system, and it worked.

    Of course, this was a courthouse cafeteria while I was on jury duty, so the only people he really had to worry about was the lawyers ...

  • treypole (unregistered)

    One cool thing about it though is that if you scroll up and down real fast with the mouse-wheel, you get an optical effect a little like a barber-shop pole.

    Now if only you could store the 'N's in red, it would work real well.

  • Digitalbath (cs) in reply to $$$

    Anonymous:
    maldrich:

    Ray Charles used to demand payment in specific bills so he could count them himself.


    Well that seems pointless, unless he requested all 1's.

    Yes, he requested all ones.  Watch the movie "Ray."  It's good.

  • Worf (unregistered) in reply to Bustaz Kool
    Bustaz Kool:

    <font face="Courier New">No need to calculate Easter.  You just join to tblEaster:</font>

    <font face="Courier New">"NNNNNN....NNNNYNNN...NNNYNNN.....N"</font>

    <font face="Courier New">               |         |</font>

    <font face="Courier New">               |         V</font>

    <font face="Courier New"><font face="Courier New">               V         Easter (Canada)</font></font>

    <font face="Courier New">               Easter (US)</font>



    Easter is a single day (Sunday), preceded the Friday prior with Good Friday, and followed by Easter Monday. And it's fairly standard that everyone in the world follows the same date for Easter, none of this Easter (US) stuff...

    Now, if you're talking about Thanksgiving, to which Canada observes in October, and the US in November...
  • Maurits (cs) in reply to Worf
    Anonymous:
    it's fairly standard that everyone in the world follows the same date for Easter


    Actually the Eastern and Western churches calculate Easter differently.
  • NaN (unregistered) in reply to Worf

    Ever heard of the orthodox church? It uses the Julian calendar for Easter calculation. BTW, not everyone in the world considers Easter as a holiday.

  • Jeff S (cs) in reply to reed
    reed:
    Jeff S:


    Go ahead and use a formula to help you add entries to your holiday table, but to not store it anywhere and rely on dozens of calculations like these "on the fly" probably isn't the most efficient way to go, is it?  Do you really feel that this is "better" than simply storing the value in a table?  Ironically, you will end up using more space just to store and the *formulas* for these holidays rather than probably 10-15 years of actual data ! 



    It turns out that computers are actually very good at mathematics and boolean logic as well.   It also turns out that moving numbers between CPU registers and memory cache is really quite fast.  Who knew?

    (It might be useful to have the data precalculated in the database IF you want to use it as part of queries on other data that's in the database, though.)



    I don't even know how to respond to this one ....  I tried about 20 different replies and I suppose I just have to give up ... but thanks for making my friday with that great quote!  (the part I bolded)

    I will print it out and keep it as a guideline for what to store in databases and what not to .... I had never thought of it that way!  :)
  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to NaN
    Anonymous:
    BTW, not everyone in the world considers Easter as a holiday.


    REALLY?! Oh my gosh! Are you sure? Has the news media been alerted? Quick - someone get Dan Rather on the phone, THE WORLD MUST KNOW!

    Tell me Mr. Anonymous Genius - what holidays are celebrated universally by everyone in the world?

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon

    p.s. This place needs a bouncer to keep the riff-raff out. Perhaps the guy that beats people up for using Hungarian notation could handle the task.


  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to Jeff S
    Jeff S:
    reed:
    Jeff S:


    Go ahead and use a formula to help you add entries to your holiday table, but to not store it anywhere and rely on dozens of calculations like these "on the fly" probably isn't the most efficient way to go, is it?  Do you really feel that this is "better" than simply storing the value in a table?  Ironically, you will end up using more space just to store and the *formulas* for these holidays rather than probably 10-15 years of actual data ! 



    It turns out that computers are actually very good at mathematics and boolean logic as well.   It also turns out that moving numbers between CPU registers and memory cache is really quite fast.  Who knew?

    (It might be useful to have the data precalculated in the database IF you want to use it as part of queries on other data that's in the database, though.)



    I don't even know how to respond to this one ....  I tried about 20 different replies and I suppose I just have to give up ... but thanks for making my friday with that great quote!  (the part I bolded)

    I will print it out and keep it as a guideline for what to store in databases and what not to .... I had never thought of it that way!  :)


    HIT THE UNPRINT BUTTON JEFF! I'VE GOT AN ADDENDUM!

    If the requirement for data going into the database is that it must be used as part of a query on other data, how does the first piece of data get selected to go into the database? After all, if there's no data in the database, anything you add can't be used as part of a query on other data. Thus, databases should be empty at all times. Use XML files but disguise them with .js extensions so no one knows that that is where your data is. Q.E.D.

    I need a nap.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Jeff S (cs) in reply to reed
    reed:
    Jeff S:


    Go ahead and use a formula to help you add entries to your holiday table, but to not store it anywhere and rely on dozens of calculations like these "on the fly" probably isn't the most efficient way to go, is it?  Do you really feel that this is "better" than simply storing the value in a table?  Ironically, you will end up using more space just to store and the *formulas* for these holidays rather than probably 10-15 years of actual data ! 



    It turns out that computers are actually very good at mathematics and boolean logic as well.   It also turns out that moving numbers between CPU registers and memory cache is really quite fast.  Who knew?

    (It might be useful to have the data precalculated in the database IF you want to use it as part of queries on other data that's in the database, though.)



    By the way, Reed, suppose that we decide that in your system, you will calculate all holidays using a formula, since computers are all fast and neat like that.  Not being the clever algorithm master that you are, I will "hack together" my system and put the data in a table.   Let's say we need to cover from 1/1/1970 to 12/31/2070.

    Let's assume we never have to join to the table or do any kind of querying, we just need to be able to write a function: IsHoliday(date) which returns a boolean.  So this satisfies your definition of when you should store data in tables (only when "you want to use it as part of queries on other data").

    Here is my function, in peusdo-code:

    bool IsHoliday(@Date)
    {
       Return (SELECT IsHoliday FROM Holidays WHERE Date = @Date)
    }

    Can you do me a favor and post your function?

    Now, let's discuss maintaining our functions.

    Let's assume that HR informs you that July 3rd will be a holiday this year, in addition to the 4th, since the 4th falls on a Tuesday.  (that happened to us).    They  just made this decision last week, so it is not in my table or in your formula.

    For me, I will just update my silly little table to accomodate this. 

    Please let me know how you will adjust your cool "formula".

    Looking forward to seeing your code.  And don't forget, you need to cover all holidays from 1/1/970 to 12/31/2070 in your formula.
  • Jeff S (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon
    Richard Nixon:
    Jeff S:
    reed:
    Jeff S:


    Go ahead and use a formula to help you add entries to your holiday table, but to not store it anywhere and rely on dozens of calculations like these "on the fly" probably isn't the most efficient way to go, is it?  Do you really feel that this is "better" than simply storing the value in a table?  Ironically, you will end up using more space just to store and the *formulas* for these holidays rather than probably 10-15 years of actual data ! 



    It turns out that computers are actually very good at mathematics and boolean logic as well.   It also turns out that moving numbers between CPU registers and memory cache is really quite fast.  Who knew?

    (It might be useful to have the data precalculated in the database IF you want to use it as part of queries on other data that's in the database, though.)



    I don't even know how to respond to this one ....  I tried about 20 different replies and I suppose I just have to give up ... but thanks for making my friday with that great quote!  (the part I bolded)

    I will print it out and keep it as a guideline for what to store in databases and what not to .... I had never thought of it that way!  :)


    HIT THE UNPRINT BUTTON JEFF! I'VE GOT AN ADDENDUM!

    If the requirement for data going into the database is that it must be used as part of a query on other data, how does the first piece of data get selected to go into the database? After all, if there's no data in the database, anything you add can't be used as part of a query on other data. Thus, databases should be empty at all times. Use XML files but disguise them with .js extensions so no one knows that that is where your data is. Q.E.D.

    I need a nap.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon


    Richard -- normally I prefer sticking a fork into my eyes rather than reading through your posts, but I really enjoyed that one !!!  Well done.  :)

    (How's that for a backhanded complement?)

    have a good weekend.
  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to Jeff S
    Jeff S:
    Richard -- normally I prefer sticking a fork into my eyes rather than reading through your posts, but I really enjoyed that one !!!  Well done.  :)

    (How's that for a backhanded complement?)

    have a good weekend.


    A new era of peace has dawned! Take care buddy.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Maurits (cs) in reply to Richard Nixon
    Richard Nixon:
    what holidays are celebrated universally by everyone in the world?


    The solstices and equinoxes are/were acknowledged by virtually every civilization.
  • chrismcb (cs) in reply to My Name

    Anonymous:

    A non techy screwing around directly in the database? Oh now that's a good idea... And how would the non techy do that without a fancy database tool? Via the command line and directly with SQL statements?

    With a magnet. Of course that means direct access to the hard drive...

  • George Washington (unregistered) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:

    VERIFY: That's easy.  ATMs only dispense $20 bills.
    COUNT: I'll let you figure this one out... :rolleyes:


    No they don't....some dispense $10 bills.  I also saw one a few years ago that dispensed $5 bills.

    As for counting bills of different denomination, some blind people I know can actually feel the difference in the shape of the ink.  I personally can't tell the difference, but my fingertips aren't exactly all that sensitive.

    As an aside, most blind people fold each type of bill differently once they know what type it is.
  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to Maurits
    Maurits:
    Richard Nixon:
    what holidays are celebrated universally by everyone in the world?


    The solstices and equinoxes are/were acknowledged by virtually every civilization.


    Thanks for playing Maurits but I'm sorry that is not the correct answer. My point was that the poster I was replying to had pointed out that not everyone in the world celebrates Easter. He did not say that "not every civilization or culture celebrates Easter."; nay, he pointed out quite insightfully (or incitefully) that not everyone celebrates Easter. The challenge I then threw down on the table, as a rhetorical question which you apparently missed, was to name a holiday celebrated universally by everyone. It can be said of every single holiday that not everyone celebrates it. Your example of the solstices and equinoxes is invalid because I do not celebrate, observe, or acknowledge those events. As point of fact, I do not have believe the sun exists as it has been described in accepted scientific texts.

    Long story short - that guy was a chin-slapping dimwit for stating that not everyone celebrates Easter and the world would be a better place if he were caged. I'm sorry that I caught you with my trap. You were not the inteded target. Have a great day!

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • Dustman (unregistered) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:

    Richard Nixon:
    ParkinT:
    Why are there Braille markings on the Drive-up ATM?


    1.    For blind people being driven to the ATM.
    2.   Notice there is Braille on all ATMs, including those walk-up ones in the mall and at banks. Does it make sense to manufacture some ATMs with Braille and some without? No, of course not - make one mold, keep filling it.
    3.   Americans with Disabilities act is probably another reason.

    There, three reasons for you. Change your signature.

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon

    Then, in America, how does a blind person VERIFY and COUNT the bills that come out of an ATM?

    They are all the same size and shape!

    {Yes, I have worked with the blind; there are many 'degrees' of legally defined blindness that do not include complete loss of sight. And the signature was meant to be read tongue-in-cheek, not literally }



    Fun fact: In Canada, bills of differing denominations are not only printed in different, bright, funny colours, but also come with braille markings stamped in one corner that last for about an hour after being crumpled into your pocket.
  • Wartex (cs) in reply to Dustman

    If only boolean used W for NULL... W..T..F

  • The Anonymous Coward (unregistered) in reply to George Washington

    Anonymous:
    Maurits:

    VERIFY: That's easy.  ATMs only dispense $20 bills.
    COUNT: I'll let you figure this one out... :rolleyes:


    No they don't....some dispense $10 bills.  I also saw one a few years ago that dispensed $5 bills.

    Right; it depends on the ATM.

    Braile on ATM's doesn't mean that a totally blind person can use ATM's like a sighted person can use ATM's.  But that's not the point; the point is that the braile makes it easier for a blind person to work out a method for using an ATM.  Many accomodations for the blind (or deaf, or wheelchair-bound, etc.) work like this; it's not about making everyone the same, it's just about giving everyone the tools to get by somehow.

    A blind person can pretty much always get around better in an area with which he/she is familiar.  (Consider that to use an ATM you first have to find it; and then, you have to either be able to read the screen or be familiar with the particular machine so you know which buttons to push.)  If he knows that "there is an ATM here, and this particular machine only dispenses $20's", then he's on the right track.  If using a machine that dispenses multiple denominations, he might take a risk based on knowing what it normally dispenses for a give request.  (Do you verify your bills after every transaction?  Most people take some risk some of the time.)  Worst case, he can have someone count the bills for him.  (Maybe he's not alone; or maybe in certain circumstances -- like in a bank lobby -- he's willing to ask someone for help.)

    "But if he has someone with him, why not have that person use the ATM?"  Well, the easiest reason to understand (but not the only one) is that the person he's with (or the person whom he asks for help) might be someone he'll trust with the $100 he figures he just withdrew, but not with his PIN.

  • Gene Wirchenko (cs) in reply to Dustman
    ParkinT:
    Fun fact: In Canada, bills of differing denominations are not only printed in different, bright, funny colours, but also come with braille markings stamped in one corner that last for about an hour after being crumpled into your pocket.


    In China, the bills have raised areas AND are of different sizes.  The bigger denominations are bigger.  Other countries also have bills of different sizes.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko

  • Richard Nixon (cs) in reply to Gene Wirchenko
    Gene Wirchenko:
    ParkinT:
    Fun fact: In Canada, bills of differing denominations are not only printed in different, bright, funny colours, but also come with braille markings stamped in one corner that last for about an hour after being crumpled into your pocket.


    In China, the bills have raised areas AND are of different sizes.  The bigger denominations are bigger.  Other countries also have bills of different sizes.

    Sincerely,

    Gene Wirchenko



    More importantly - was there a misspelling in the 'All Your Base' meme as you claimed? You see, you made a statement about a misspelling with your typical grandiose authority. Yet, I find you to be wrong. From this, I have concluded that you don't know what you're talking about 80% of the time.

    To conclude - is this statement on Chinese bills in the 20% or the 80%?

    sincerely,
    Richard Nixon
  • hank miller (cs) in reply to The Anonymous Coward

    The problem is the US designed their bills in the late 1800s when a blind person had no chance of earning cash of his own anyway, so nobody bothered to make the currency useable to the blind. Today that is acknowledged as a mistake, but it is hard to correct. US bills are everywhere. In many unstable countries US bills are preferred to local currency (I think that was more turn in the days of the Soviet Union). Switching the US is hard, but switching other countries is near impossible.

    There are advantages to the US sticking with the current bills, even though they are badly designed in many ways.

  • The Anonymous Coward (unregistered) in reply to hank miller

    The U.S. does change its bills periodically.  A quick web search indicates to me that the current design mostly came about in 1929 (which is a bit more recent than the late 1800's, but still early enough that it's not surprising if the blind weren't considered).  But then in the late 50's they added "In God We Trust" (presumably a Cold War move); and in 90 they added the security thread. 

    I've heard talk about adding subtle color to bills (though if it's yet been done I haven't noticed -- but then again, I am color-blind).  They've changed the images in various ways in the past decade or so.

    So certain changes obviously aren't that hard, even with the broad circulation of U.S. bills.  (Especially for common denominations where a given bill doesn't "live" that long anyway.)  You don't see certain changes (like texture or size variation), though.  This may be due in part to a large installed base of cash drawers and vending machine bill acceptors.  But I suspect it has more to do with inertia.  Folks are used to what they're used to, which is at least part of the reason for the repeated failure to broadly circulate $1 coins.

  • Seba (unregistered) in reply to marvin_rabbit
    marvin_rabbit:
    Bus Raker:

    Jeff S:
    Ken Nipper:
    Hmmmm.......guess the original programmer thought it was more efficient to type Ys and Ns than to do say.........LOGIC...........


    Holidays are *data* and should be stored in tables. 

    However, as mentioned, it appears that he is simply declaring every weekend a "Holiday" so in that case logic would work, I suppose.

    The guy who wrote this must be a fun guy to hang out with ... except for Monday-Friday or on any actual holiday that falls on a weekday, that is.

     

    Sorry every holiday has an exact calculation ... in Excel for instance they can represented like:

    Memorial Day - Last Monday in May

    =DATEVALUE("5/" & IF(WEEKDAY(DATEVALUE("5/31/" & intYear))>3, 35 -WEEKDAY(DATEVALUE("5/31/" & intYear)),28-WEEKDAY(DATEVALUE("5/1/" & intYear))) & "/" & intYear)


    Cool!  Can you show me the formula for Easter next?

    http://www.assa.org.au/edm.html

    Quite easy no ?

  • Nick (unregistered) in reply to marvin_rabbit

    http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/butcher.html

  • some guy (unregistered)

    It is actually perfectly reasonable to put holidays in a table, especially when the holiday rule is not determined by Gregorian calendar.

    The rule of determining holiday in my city is rather complicated, given that the some holidays are determined by a Gregorian calendar, some determined by Chinese calendar, 3 days by Easter rule, and even one of them determined by solar term.

    To make things more complex, these holidays often observes on the same day or overlaps with Sundays. In such cases an extra holiday is given to compensate the overlapped holiday.

    Given the complexity of the rules, there is no practical way to determine the holidays using algorithmic ways...

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