• Idiot (unregistered)
    You sir, are an idiot. Or you're talking about a computer that isn't connected to the internet. There is also the distinct possibility of both being true.

    This is exactly the same thing as not being able to know for sure that you personally don't have an illness. Sure you may not show any symptoms, sure you may not be affected and may only be a carrier, but you cant be sure that the germ is not running around in your body.

    Any time a program connects to a remote computer you run the risk of infection, because no program is 100% flawless. The best you can hope for is the remote computer you connect to is friendly and bug-free. Even coming to this site puts you at risk because you cant be certain that

    1. your browser is secure
    2. this site isn't already compromised and spouting viruses

    No anti-virus here. Exploits happen, and sure you can get infected once in a while even if you're quite careful. But slowing down disk access by 2000% (see codinghorror.com) just to catch a virus every three years or so? Madness.

    Keep backups, keep away from dodgy sites and you should be fine. Above all, know what you're doing.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Mac OS has traditionally allowed you to rename open files, too, which rules.

    Well, you can do that as well under Windows... that is, if less applications would open everything in FILE_MY_PRECIOUSSSS mode.

    Ha, I love the name. I think MS should offer that as a synonym for whatever their exclusive open macro is.

  • IbexTheFish (unregistered) in reply to Random user

    ... and if I boot from a live CD in a computer with no hard drive and a lot of memory? The only way I can get a virus (that persists after a reboot) is if one was installed on the CD.

    Just because you don't know something can be done doesn't mean that it can't. And the name-calling only exposes your own ignorance.

  • AndrewB (unregistered) in reply to Idiot
    Idiot:
    You sir, are an idiot. Or you're talking about a computer that isn't connected to the internet. There is also the distinct possibility of both being true.

    This is exactly the same thing as not being able to know for sure that you personally don't have an illness. Sure you may not show any symptoms, sure you may not be affected and may only be a carrier, but you cant be sure that the germ is not running around in your body.

    Any time a program connects to a remote computer you run the risk of infection, because no program is 100% flawless. The best you can hope for is the remote computer you connect to is friendly and bug-free. Even coming to this site puts you at risk because you cant be certain that

    1. your browser is secure
    2. this site isn't already compromised and spouting viruses

    No anti-virus here. Exploits happen, and sure you can get infected once in a while even if you're quite careful. But slowing down disk access by 2000% (see codinghorror.com) just to catch a virus every three years or so? Madness.

    Keep backups, keep away from dodgy sites and you should be fine. Above all, know what you're doing.

    I agree. While AV software is appropriate for dummy users, its drawbacks outweigh its benefits for intelligent users.

  • (cs) in reply to AndrewB
    AndrewB:
    Idiot:
    Keep backups, keep away from dodgy sites and you should be fine. Above all, know what you're doing.
    I agree. While AV software is appropriate for dummy users, its drawbacks outweigh its benefits for intelligent users.

    it's worth it for me to be action-packed with AV and a firewall. then again, i rather enjoy going to the dodgy sites... they seem to have the best, um, articles?

  • Neal (unregistered) in reply to Random user

    Ahh, I can see the world you live in. Perhaps you should go over to Scott Adam's blog and debate existance, intelligence, god, and the like.

    The point I was making and the one that you failed to recognize is that my computer was as virus free this morning when I turned it on as if it had been scanned daily since it was built. Between this morning and tomorrow it's certainly possible that my pc may be compromised (though none of mine ever have). If my computer has been compromised by a persistant agent I will know tomorrow before I boot into windows.

    You do NOT need to run a virus scanner to know that you have or have not been infected. Nor will any virus scanner keep you from becoming infected. I never claimed that I relied soley on security settings or other such things to protect me, only that I didn't use a virus scanner.

    You sir, are not only an idiot, but an ass - and not just for the assumptions you continue to make.

  • (cs) in reply to AbbydonKrafts
    AbbydonKrafts:
    Terrorantula:
    If you are careful with what you do, youw ont get viruses. Kindof like STDs. IF you dip it in a professional woman (or man) your pretty much bound to end up with a few new buddies.

    LOL. I love it!

    I didn't have antivirus the whole time I was on dial-up. Didn't when I moved to broadband, either. Went a total of about 10 years without antivirus. Then, I made the mistake of turning on IP passthrough on the router to see if it really was the router blocking an app from communicating. Sure enough, a damn worm came through that kept causing RPC to crash along with Windows which caused a perpetual reboot cycle. So, now I'm running AVG.

    Side note: I also sent the $1.50 via PayPal. Bring on the sticker!

    Blaster/Sasser worm. I used to work tech support to remove that crap off of peoples computers. If it makes you feel any better, Microsoft prosecuted the guy who wrote the Sasser worm. I don't know if they ever got the dude who wrote the Blaster one though.

  • rgz (unregistered)

    If the stickers have the new "worse than failure" logo then they are Utter Garbage. I wouldn't get them for free.

    The sticker shortage most be simulated to create buzz.

    Captcha: doom, Windows Vista has arrived so it's appropriate.

  • (cs) in reply to rgz
    rgz:
    If the stickers have the new "worse than failure" logo then they are Utter Garbage. I wouldn't get them for free.

    The sticker shortage most be simulated to create buzz.

    Captcha: doom, Windows Vista has arrived so it's appropriate.

    I plan on cutting the "Worse than Failure" part off the bottom and have my nice shiny WTF sticker to put on whatever I desire!

  • smile (unregistered) in reply to rgz

    http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000803.html#comments covers why I don't bother with antivirus programs. I've actually gotten several viruses over the last 5 years or so of running "unprotected", but strangely enough none of them have been as bad as Norton Anti-virus.

  • (cs) in reply to smile

    I've been using Avast antivirus. The access times it takes are pretty minimal (I haven't really noticed any delays in load/run times because of it, etc). I can run intensive programs like BF2142 without any noticable effect. If you haven't taken a look at Avast, head over to avast.com, and download a home copy (requires free reg key).

    As far as the idiot saying "Boy, if you don't want all the crap Real installs, just don't let it install that crap!" is missing the point. YOU DON'T GET A CHOICE IN THE MATTER. Given their total disdain for their userbase in the past, I'm NEVER using them again, and I recommend against their use to every person I know.

  • Wene Gerchinko (unregistered) in reply to DustinMichaels
    DustinMichaels:
    Dang I never got a free sticker.

    My guess is that there were never any to begin with and Alex just wants to make a butt load of money $1.50 at a time.

    Maybe you've not seen that it costs basically 78 cents if you live in the US.

    Sincerely, Wene Gerchinko

  • (cs) in reply to Wene Gerchinko
    Wene Gerchinko:
    DustinMichaels:
    Dang I never got a free sticker.

    My guess is that there were never any to begin with and Alex just wants to make a butt load of money $1.50 at a time.

    Maybe you've not seen that it costs basically 78 cents if you live in the US.

    Sincerely, Wene Gerchinko

    Hmmm, there's the cost of the sticker, the cost of the envelope, the cost of the stamp, the time it took to buy the box of envelopes, the time it takes to address-stuff-lick the envelope, the time it takes to mail the envelopes....

    Yeah, he's going to be as rich as Donald Trump by next week.

  • Brad (unregistered) in reply to skztr

    Screw you. You should be shot for being a dumb ass.

  • (cs)

    Translation:

    "You tried to delete RealPlayer, but we found it and it's running anyway.

    Neener, Neener, Neener."

  • (cs) in reply to Neal
    Neal:
    cparker:
    No, you don't *KNOW* that for a fact unless you actually scan your machine with a virus scanner.

    Yes, I do know that for a fact, or I should say I did know that for a fact when I booted my computer this morning 10 minutes before my post. It could have changed in the minutes since, but we both know that's not what we're discussing.

    One can indeed know that for a fact without the use of a virus scanner. That you cannot comprehend any way that a computer can be known virus free without a virus scan speaks to your ignorance or to your presumption of mine.

    Someone's never heard the word "rootkit" before...
  • James (unregistered)

    Wow, Neal, switch to decaf, man. I think the point being made earlier is that "virus" is a really broad term with a squishy definition. If you take the meaning as "malware", e.g. anything that makes your computer do something you don't want it to, I would contend that it is difficult to prove the negative. I think you said you were running some version of Windows. If that's the case, there could have been a zero-day exploit found in e.g. your web browser (IE, Firefox, or otherwise). There could have been a compromise in one of your favorite web sites -- again, assuming you use a web browser and visit web sites, though if you don't, that's "cheating" in the context of this discussion, since most people use their home PCs to web browse and your criticism of AV software would have to be taken in a different light if it was conditioned on never viewing any web pages. Anyway, the hypothetical compromised web site could use the hypothetical unpatched exploit to install a (hypothetical) worm or similar on your PC.

    There's pretty much no way to "know" that you don't have a virus, regardless. Magnus said it best:

    No, you never KNOW that for a fact, even if you've just scanned your machine with a virus scanner. That only tells you that you don't have any of the malware the scanner knows how to find, and that only if you have reason to be confident the scanner hasn't been somehow compromised.
    Sure, you could boot from a read-only OS (with e.g. Knoppix or XP Embedded, though "desktop" use it may violate the terms of the XPE license), but that's also "cheating" in the context of this discussion since everybody else (AFAIK) is talking about their normal Windows desktop PCs. If you're running an XP Pro Dell (or some such) without AV software, I would like to know how one might "know" that one hasn't been infected by any asymptomatic malware. Because short of using read-only media or sumchecking all your computer's files on every boot against known good values, I don't see how you can be sure nothing has changed.

    I don't want to sound hostile, but you've basically been asserting that you are 100% sure you didn't have a virus this morning, and I'd like to know how.

  • (cs)

    A rootkit can basically make your own operating system lie to you. It can show files being the correct size when they are the incorrect size, with a correct checksum when they have an incorrect checksum, and hide some files completely. A virus scanner run on a rootkit afflicted system would not be likely to detect it. The process wouldn't show up in the process list. The file the process was running from wouldn't show up. Everything would look just fine and dandy. For all intents and purposes it wouldn't exist in any detectable form. Usually people with enough skill to create these beasts aren't your regular script kiddies out for a thrill. They're much more interested in stealing data and avoiding detection as long as possible. Valve was affected with a rootkit, and they only found out by noticing a spike in network activity. That's when the source code for Half Life 2 was leaked out.

  • Darren (unregistered)

    Real has made some very serious marketing errors in the past and rightfully deserve their bad reputation, but I've always found the actual quality of their software (outside of the spyware) to be very good. (on Windows, historically)

    And anyone who's actually used RealPlayer on OS X has to admit that it's actually a very nice and rock solid program. Better than the Windows version of Real Player, and certainly much better than both the OS X Media Player provided from Microsoft, as well as Quick Time (prior to Quick Time V7, anyway).

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Mac OS has traditionally allowed you to rename open files, too, which rules.

    Well, you can do that as well under Windows... that is, if less applications would open everything in FILE_MY_PRECIOUSSSS mode.

    That's f'ing hilarious!

  • (cs) in reply to Paul
    Paul:
    dp.design:
    It asks you if you want to re-associate your iPod before it does that.
    Haven't used iTunes much, but if that's all it says, the term "re-associate" sounds pretty harmless. I would hope it would at least warn that re-associating your iPod with a different computer could cause you to lose all your music. Anyone know more about this?
    yes, my hard-drive went south the other day, and after I got a new one and reinstalled everything, that was basically the first warning that popped up when I plugged in my wife's ipod.
  • (cs) in reply to campkev

    What about a quantum virus? You know, the kind where once you know where it is, it won't be there to be removed because it will have moved on, and if you know where it will be, then it isn't where it can be removed now.

    Can you ever really know anything (about a virus)?

  • Rick (unregistered)
    installs an unnecessary system tray application, tries to reset all file associations for all media files on my computer each time I run it, adds a Quick Launch button

    For a minute there I thought you were talking about Quicktime.....

  • Lummox (unregistered) in reply to dolo54
    dolo54:
    Real Player running out of trash??? I find that hard to believe. I'm sure they have more trash on the way in the pipe. Just be patient little popup... more trash is on its way.

    Don't you mean tubes?

  • (cs) in reply to H3SO5
    H3SO5:
    LINUX_FANBOY_MODE_ON=1 The worst Windows program is Windows!

    You forgot to export LINUX_FANBOY_MODE.

  • Naaah (unregistered)
    Sure, you could boot from a read-only OS (with e.g. Knoppix or XP Embedded, though "desktop" use it may violate the terms of the XPE license), but that's also "cheating" in the context of this discussion since everybody else (AFAIK) is talking about their normal Windows desktop PCs. If you're running an XP Pro Dell (or some such) without AV software, I would like to know how one might "*know*" that one hasn't been infected by any asymptomatic malware. Because short of using read-only media or sumchecking all your computer's files on every boot against known good values, I don't see how you can be sure nothing has changed.

    You presume that AV-programs can guarantee that your computer is clean. That is naive.

  • (cs) in reply to EvanED
    Mac OS has traditionally allowed you to rename open files, too, which rules.

    That's true of everything except Windows, using default flags. I think it's okay if you try opening files with CreateFile directly and use share-delete attrib, right?

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous

    Alright - that got a full blown LOL from me... I can see my Word icon crawling around muttering 'my precioussss' as I open files...

  • (cs)

    Neal wrote: "No viruses, spyware, or trojans here. zip! Yes, I do know that for a fact."

    How do you know the flash firmware of your DVD drive, video card, network card, motherboard, or other part hasn't been infected? BIOS viruses do exist. How do you know your system isn't immediately reinfected at every boot, the moment your system connects to the network? How do you know your OS wasn't infected before being installed in your system, like during manufacturing or while it was being built?

  • (cs)

    I am sure that this message is quite useful and reduces the number of help-line calls they receive from fools who run programs from the trash.

    Picture this: a fool tries RealOne, doesn't like it and deletes it. Later on he needs it to play a .ra file so he finds it in the trash and uses it (somehow). Later on the fool starts using it, not knowing his songs, movies and playlists are all being saved in the trash. Whenever the trash is emptied an enraged call is placed to Real for help.

  • Ed (unregistered) in reply to the HairOfMy ChinnyChinChin

    Well, if your computer is and always has been offline, and you have a static BIOS, and you are using a known-to-be-clean OS (that is, an old one), then you can be assured that your computer is clean.

    Incidentally, I KNOW that my Franklin ACE 1200 has no viruses. That thing came out before viruses existed. Before BIOS even. Heck, it's one of the first that doesn't run off coal.

    By the way... would you consider an virus built in to an operating system a virus? Take Windows for example. Random loss of data, causes crashing, theft of your personal information... do you call Windows a virus?

  • (cs)

    It is running right where it belongs...in the 'effing trash right next to iTunes.

  • (cs) in reply to Red5

    I think we can all agree that Neal is the The Real WTF. Thanks Neal, we are all so happy that you have decided to lend your computer out as a zombie system. My spam filter thanks you too.

  • (cs) in reply to AbbydonKrafts
    AbbydonKrafts:
    Terrorantula:
    If you are careful with what you do, youw ont get viruses. Kindof like STDs. IF you dip it in a professional woman (or man) your pretty much bound to end up with a few new buddies.

    LOL. I love it!

    I didn't have antivirus the whole time I was on dial-up. Didn't when I moved to broadband, either. Went a total of about 10 years without antivirus. Then, I made the mistake of turning on IP passthrough on the router to see if it really was the router blocking an app from communicating. Sure enough, a damn worm came through that kept causing RPC to crash along with Windows which caused a perpetual reboot cycle. So, now I'm running AVG.

    I think you made the wrong choice there, man. Antivirus won't stop a worm, although it might help clean up afterward (assuming you can keep the system up long enough). Better to have a BartPE disc with antivirus on it for emergencies, though. Aside from its own occasional vulnerabilities, Windows Firewall is a good choice for basic needs though.

    If you ever touch cracks and keygens, not to say you would, antivirus is pretty much your only hope, though.

    The Fox:
    It would be nice if you'd back up those statements. I think Adobe Reader (version 7, 8 was SLOW++), Norton, iTunes, and Word are fine programs. Open Office is overrated.
    Adobe readers 5 and 7 are decent, haven't really had trouble with 8, but 6 was beyond godawful slow. 5 was the last good Acrobat, though. But claiming that Norton is a fine program will get you laughed off by anyone who's seen it hose a perfectly good system. (See: http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/archives/000803.html ) [Oops, someone already linked that.]
    EvanED:
    But the reader on my computer here was just upgraded to Reader 8. And it's great! It's WAY faster, fixes the UI bug, and seems to work properly in the browser. One of the most worthwhile upgrades I've seen in a while.
    Just don't try to scroll down a partly-loaded PDF in firefox (and IE, I think) or it'll totally hang the window/tab.
  • (cs) in reply to Ed
    Ed:
    By the way... would you consider an virus built in to an operating system a virus? Take Windows for example. Random loss of data, causes crashing, theft of your personal information... do you call Windows a virus?
    Macs are the real viruses. Everytime one person in an office gets one, four more have one by the end of the week. ;)

    I used 'though' a few too many times in the last message, it looks like...

  • (cs) in reply to Neal
    Neal:
    The point I was making and the one that you failed to recognize is that my computer was as virus free this morning when I turned it on as if it had been scanned daily since it was built.
    The point YOU fail to understand is that viruses don't always pop up with a skull and crossbones message box saying "U hAvE B33n HaX0rzed!!!"
    You do NOT need to run a virus scanner to know that you have or have not been infected.
    You can't be sure you don't have a virus with or without AV software, but you're almost certainly less sure without it.
    Nor will any virus scanner keep you from becoming infected.
    Perhaps you mean none of them keep you from becoming infected by 100% of the viruses, which is impossible, but most viruses I've gotten are detected as soon as they're run, and stopped by AV (even free AV like avast).
    You sir, are not only an idiot, but an ass - and not just for the assumptions you continue to make.
    Calm down. We're not arguing that you NEED to install AV software on your computer--I agree that discretion and firewalls reduce significantly your chance of getting a virus. We're simply saying that, even when being careful, it's very hard to be sure that you don't have any viruses, and it's especially hard if you don't have AV software.
  • (cs) in reply to Will Perdikakis
    Will Perdikakis:
    Worst Windows Programs (in no particular order)...
    I agree about the inferiority of most of these programs, except MS Word, but that's only because I pirate it. If I were somehow forced to pay for Office, I'd switch to OO in a snap.

    I also like MPC, but I'm not quite sure it's a replacement for iTunes. I would put in a vote for Winamp, as it has always been a great music player, but also has the music library capabilities of iTunes, letting you search through your music quickly, create playlists, rate music, etc.

  • Me (unregistered) in reply to cparker
    cparker:
    "You've sent a secure payment of $1.50 USD to Alex Papadimoulis through PayPal. You'll receive an email receipt shortly."

    Woohoo!

    You guys are really paying for a "Worse than failure" sticker?

    Amazing.

    I have been told that it is possible to sell anything...

  • rgz (unregistered) in reply to foxyshadis
    foxyshadis:
    Macs are the real viruses. Everytime one person in an office gets one, four more have one by the end of the week. ;)

    Oh pretty please, get real (and I don't men Real software). Regardless if that is astroturfing or fanboyism that's just not true, really, stop lieing, you are doing a disservice to your master.

    Now go "update" your system.

  • (cs) in reply to Ed
    Ed:
    Incidentally, I *KNOW* that my Franklin ACE 1200 has no viruses. That thing came out before viruses existed. Before BIOS even. Heck, it's one of the first that doesn't run off coal.
    You need to check your facts!

    Not only did the Franklin ACE 1200 have a BIOS (even if they didn't openly name it as such) but it was released two years after the IBM PC - which we all know has a BIOS.

    It is possible that your Franklin does not have a virus - even if you never booted it after you bought it new. It could have been infected in the factory!! (They didn't do much virus checking at the time)

    The very first computer virus acknowledged to be "in the wild" was Elk Cloner written by Rich Skrenta in 1982 (a year before the Franklin ACE 1200 was announced). And guess what - it was an Apple DOS boot virus. What did the Franklin run? Apple DOS!

    Still, it is unlikely that your computer is infected, but it is possible.

  • (cs) in reply to joe.edwards
    A rootkit can basically make your own operating system lie to you. It can show files being the correct size when they are the incorrect size, with a correct checksum when they have an incorrect checksum, and hide some files completely. A virus scanner run on a rootkit afflicted system would not be likely to detect it. The process wouldn't show up in the process list. The file the process was running from wouldn't show up. Everything would look just fine and dandy. For all intents and purposes it wouldn't exist in any detectable form. Usually people with enough skill to create these beasts aren't your regular script kiddies out for a thrill. They're much more interested in stealing data and avoiding detection as long as possible.
    You can bypass the rootkit with a kernel debugger if you ever suspect that you've accidentatly placed a Sony CD in your computer. Or if you happen to be doing a kernel debug and notice something's not lining up with the UI, you know you've got a rootkit.
  • (cs) in reply to GettinSadda
    GettinSadda:
    Ed:
    Incidentally, I *KNOW* that my Franklin ACE 1200 has no viruses. That thing came out before viruses existed. Before BIOS even. Heck, it's one of the first that doesn't run off coal.
    You need to check your facts!

    Not only did the Franklin ACE 1200 have a BIOS (even if they didn't openly name it as such) but it was released two years after the IBM PC - which we all know has a BIOS.

    It is possible that your Franklin does not have a virus - even if you never booted it after you bought it new. It could have been infected in the factory!! (They didn't do much virus checking at the time)

    The very first computer virus acknowledged to be "in the wild" was Elk Cloner written by Rich Skrenta in 1982 (a year before the Franklin ACE 1200 was announced). And guess what - it was an Apple DOS boot virus. What did the Franklin run? Apple DOS!

    Still, it is unlikely that your computer is infected, but it is possible.

    Hahahah

  • (cs) in reply to General K
    General K:
    Okay, I don't get what's funny here. RealOne sucks, but it's just notifying the user that it's running out of the Trash (which is probably not the desired location of the program.)

    It would have been funny if the dialog had said "This copy of RealOne Player appears to be Trashed." But this? T

    I mis-read the message at first. I read it as "This copy of RealOne Player appears to be running out of Trash". As though it had exhausted its supply of crap to throw onto your computer. Funny how our attitude colors our perception, isn't it?

  • (cs) in reply to rgz
    rgz:
    foxyshadis:
    Macs are the real viruses. Everytime one person in an office gets one, four more have one by the end of the week. ;)

    Oh pretty please, get real (and I don't men Real software). Regardless if that is astroturfing or fanboyism that's just not true, really, stop lieing, you are doing a disservice to your master.

    Now go "update" your system.

    God, can't anyone be facetious anymore?

    I don't even like macs that much, never owned one. What's your problem, exactly, besides incredibly bad grammar? I'm being perfectly honest, if silly; as the IT for a small-to-midsize company I've noticed this effect several times. One person gets a mac laptop, a month later his friend does, another month goes by and two more random people in the office have one, or something else Apple-related. Six months later it starts at another office. Watch, in six months it'll repeat with the iPhone, to the horror of all of us who use a phone for calling people and not much else.

    (If this gets any response it'll probably be of the 'lol ur so defensive u must be liering' variety.)

  • ontheinside (unregistered) in reply to cparker

    can't believe you actually recommended Windows Live "Safety Scanner"...

  • dsa (unregistered) in reply to Neal

    Actually, it's impossible to know for sure unless you have complete knowledge of your machine at the hardware level(as in, you know the state of each bit on all the hard drives, firmware, ROM, RAM, and you're sure that the hardware isn't compromised).

    A rootkit installed at BIOS level can theoretically hide itself from you completely. You think you're starting a virus scanner: the kernel level functions your virus scanner calls have been altered not to detect the rootkit. You think you're downloading a virus scanner: theoretically, that download can be altered on the fly. You think you're writing a virus scanner from scratch and compiling it: theoretically, your compiler can be compromised and alter the machine code produced. You think you're disassembling your compiled virus scanner to make sure it's not compromised: you're presented with a fake disassembly which shows you what you'd expect. You think you're copying your compiled virus scanner to other media to disassemble it on an uncompromised computer. you have no way of knowing the "copy" command isn't compromised and that you're really copying what you think you are.

    In other words, there is NO WAY of being perfectly sure that your computer is not rootkitted. (Of course, in reality, all rootkits will be imperfect and you'll be able to detect suspicious activity at some point.)

    (It not being connected to the internet obviously won't save you: someone could have sneaked into your house yesterday and installed that rootkit by floppy disk, USB drive, CD-ROM, etc. - or by simply altering the relevant hardware if you have none of these installed.)

  • Lizard (unregistered)

    "Error: This copy of RealOne Player appears to be talking out of its ass."

  • (cs) in reply to Nick

    Actually, that's something to discuss that makes more sense: what are the worst PORTS of good programs? Speaking as a Mac user, here are the ones I know about:

    • iTunes for Windows (Great on the Mac)
    • QuickTime for Windows (Acceptable, though hardly great, on the Mac)
    • Eudora for Windows (Great on the Mac) (At least, last time I saw both versions)
    • OpenOffice.org for Mac (Why is it that the Windows version "feels" like a Windows program, but the Mac version "feels" like the GUI was designed by a sociopath?)
    • Every version of Netscape's (and/or the Mozilla project's) Mac browsers that incorporated mail or news as part of the same program

    The last time I had to set up Windows, I thought I'd download QuickTime, and I was just amazed at how many bad interface decisions they had made. The "brushed metal" look is ugly enough on the Mac, although we're getting used to it and in any case they've started to tone it down just a bit (c.f. Safari). But QuickTime Player for Windows... ick!

  • Gustav (unregistered) in reply to Nick
    Nick:
    Oh my, how could I forget about quicktime? yet another wtf on why so many movie files online seem to be in a format intended for one computer (Macs), with an intrusive program to make them semi-runable on PC's.

    Must stop, before I blow a fuse.

    As opposed to what? The proprietary WMV? QuickTime movies can have varying completely open codecs that run just fine on Macs, Windows, and Linux. And QuickTime runs just fine on Windows. Everyone I know doesn't seem to have a problem.

  • (cs) in reply to Will Perdikakis

    Acrobat Reader is not that bad if you disable all the worthless plugins it loads.

    Norton AntiVirus is the devil.

    Apple iTunes feels bloated and even on my relatively beefy system it runs sluggishly. QuickTime suffers from this as well. I try to avoid QuickTime when I can, but I still use iTunes to manage my stuff: it's just easier than anything else.

    RealPlayer is the devil.

    Word is actually very good once you turn off all the auto-correcting bullshit. You might need an exorcist to get rid of Clippy, though. I haven't run a recent version of OpenOffice so I can't comment on that.

    Media Player Classic is, without question, one of the most awesome pieces of software ever written. VLC is pretty good, too, but it has a horrible interface.

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