• Joachim Otahal (unregistered)

    Why is this a WTF? I remember a lot of times having not "20000+" minute, rather an estimation of 14 billion or more hours, usually in Win98 with files over 2 GB or copy jobs larger than 4 GB.... So making this tiny time slip a WTF is a bit old. Lets dig out winfile.exe which showed more information.

    Back in DOS times I killed huge directories by hacking the subdirectory-to-kill entry with diskedit, making it all to lost clusters, and running chkdsk /f to clean up. Was way faster than deltree when it finally came with DOS 6.

  • (cs) in reply to gl
    gl:
    rbowes:
    Orson:
    hmm thats an odd one, what was being used in the background? Norton?

    As a loyal employee of Symantec, I find that.... hilarious :)

    That brings to mind the old joke... "Why is Peter Norton always standing there with his arms folded?"

    "He's waiting for Norton Desktop to load."

    Surrealist's answer: He's wearing a pink shirt.

  • (cs) in reply to Builder
    Builder:
    During any uninstall, if a dialog ever pops up and asks you something like: Are you sure you want to remove these shared libraries? Well, the estimated time left factors in how long it takes you to hit ok and continue with the uninstall.

    What if you started the uninstall before you went to bed and woke up the next morning and hit ok? Well, that's easy... you get that huge number of minutes left to uninstall.

    It's not really a wtf.

    You're kidding, right?

    I mean, I've never tried this, but it sounds perfectly insane. Does Microsoft's algorithm also include checking the Registry to work out whether you're using Accessibility Options, taking a wild guess as to whether or not you've got cerebral palsy, and adding the appropriate amount of time to hit the button?

    Is there some way that Microsoft can check whether you're operating your computer underwater, and will therefore take much, much longer to hit the "Continue" button?

    Do they check, via some fancy-schmanzy GeoIP-type system, to see whether you are positioned directly between your computer and a black hole, and that therefore relativistic effects must be taken into account? (Bonus points for calculations based on the hairiness of the black hole in question.)

    What if the mouse is disabled, the return key is missing, and the accelerator key doesn't work? Does Microsoft post the sign for infinity, with a modal box telling you that you're plum out of luck? (Which, of course, you won't be able to get rid of, what with all those keys missing. Poopy!)

    No, I just have to test this one out. I'm going to sit here, set up an uninstall for VB.Net Visual Studio 2005, and refuse to hit the "Continue" button. I'm refusing to hit it. I'm really not going to hit it...

    ... Damn, I just couldn't help myself.

    God told me to do it, but it was the Holy Ghost who sent me the "Thank You!" note afterwards.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    So what isotope did you use to get this kind of half-life?
    Not polonium-210, that's for sure.
  • Duane Bailey (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark

    use enter :)

  • Mr Firsty (unregistered)

    lp

    (Thats Last Post, in case you were wondering)

  • Anon Amos (unregistered)
    lp

    (Thats Last Post, in case you were wondering)

    Um... nope.

  • Watson (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    You're kidding, right?
    I got the feeling that was the point being made; that, unable to discern why the user took so long to click 'Continue', the uninstaller just takes the length of time that it did as the length of time it takes. But I have a hard time thinking that this would even be considered when estimating completion time. For exactly this reason.
  • operagost (unregistered) in reply to anonymous
    anonymous:
    I have worked on the Quake codebase, and I admire the Valve guys. I am a opensource guy, and hate DRM with my brain and guts, but Steam is something gamming need to exit a hit driven economy. Games only live a few days on the shops, so this force a "create a huge game, and create ads like crazy" that is bad for gamming, is hurting, and kill whole game companys.

    The tecnical solution to make Steam posible whas some layer of indirection to the fisical filesystem. That layers add whatever you need to create DRM, but also the very complex needs to make posible some games reuse resources from other games (Garris Mod with Counter Strike models, etc).

    The original Quake game also whas with a very god layer, that layer whas soo good that able modding (simply adding a progs.dat file on a folder, make then load instead files inside pak files).

    Half-Life2 whas distributed with DVD and CD files, but once you installed it, whas needed to uncypher stuff, and update with patchs. So installing HL2 whas 3 hours manpower, or something alike (maybe 4 hours).

    I have no idea why the uninstaller is braindead on this system, but is a small bug on a amazing complex system that Steam is.

    ---Tei

    You're a technical writer, right?

  • Killer42 (unregistered)

    I once grabbed a screenshot (wish I could find it now) of a Windows copy dialog which said that the copy had over 17 million minutes remaining.

  • Romeo (unregistered)

    LSAT!

  • (cs) in reply to Watson
    Watson:
    real_aardvark:
    You're kidding, right?
    I got the feeling that was the point being made; that, unable to discern why the user took so long to click 'Continue', the uninstaller just takes the length of time that it did as the length of time it takes. But I have a hard time thinking that this would even be considered when estimating completion time. For exactly this reason.
    OK, I'll try to be more sarcastic in future: obviously I didn't get my message across sufficiently.

    I have a hard time believing that even the Microsoft install team would do anything as daft as this. I suppose there might be a technical explanation: they'd have to attach the start time to when the uninstaller comes up, not when the "continue" button is pressed. In that case, what we have here is technically called a bug; or, if you prefer, a WTF.

    Be that as it may, the behaviour described in the OP is still a WTF, and no amount of discussion on the number of angels that can dance on a Microsoft pin-head will contradict this fairly obvious fact.

  • WhoCares:D (unregistered)

    Wow... who ever said "Steam is a great product" really needs his mind cleaned ( and this from somebody claiming to be an "Open Source" guy :( )

    Still better than the HL1 uninstaller. This one had the funny idea to delete my entire "Program Files" directory. Since then I'm "jumpy" if an uninstaller takes longer than it should ;)

    CAPTCHA: tastey... wtf? ... This should be tasty :D

  • Sixie (unregistered)

    :/

  • (cs) in reply to WhoCares:D
    WhoCares:D:
    Wow... who ever said "Steam is a great product" really needs his mind cleaned ( and this from somebody claiming to be an "Open Source" guy :( )

    Still better than the HL1 uninstaller. This one had the funny idea to delete my entire "Program Files" directory. Since then I'm "jumpy" if an uninstaller takes longer than it should ;)

    CAPTCHA: tastey... wtf? ... This should be tasty :D

    Imho it's good for the side that no matter where I am, i don't need to bring the damn dvd with me everytime to get the games i bought, and don't need to find back where on earth is the serial when wanting to install on a new pc (and it's always patched to the latest version).

  • (cs)

    I want cleartype... I assume i have to go find and install my monitor's drivers? Windows says it's a plug and play right now. :-( I was looking for the dialogue box where you can pick manufacturers and stuff, but i don't see any way to get that to come up anymore :-(

  • (cs) in reply to GeneWitch
    GeneWitch:
    I want cleartype... I assume i have to go find and install my monitor's drivers? Windows says it's a plug and play right now. :-( I was looking for the dialogue box where you can pick manufacturers and stuff, but i don't see any way to get that to come up anymore :-(
    Nope. Display Properties / Appearance / Effects. (Use the following method to smooth the edges of screen fonts).
  • nikolas (unregistered)

    By contrast, Duke Nukem Forever will take just over a year to uninstall.

    is it out, yet ?

    CAPTCHA: wigwam - HUGH!

  • (cs) in reply to GeneWitch
    GeneWitch:
    I want cleartype... I assume i have to go find and install my monitor's drivers?
    This question represents such a fundamental confusion of basic concepts that I can't help wondering what the poster is even doing at a site like this.
  • WhoCares:D (unregistered) in reply to WIldpeaks
    WIldpeaks:
    WhoCares:D:
    Wow... who ever said "Steam is a great product" really needs his mind cleaned ( and this from somebody claiming to be an "Open Source" guy :( )

    Still better than the HL1 uninstaller. This one had the funny idea to delete my entire "Program Files" directory. Since then I'm "jumpy" if an uninstaller takes longer than it should ;)

    CAPTCHA: tastey... wtf? ... This should be tasty :D

    Imho it's good for the side that no matter where I am, i don't need to bring the damn dvd with me everytime to get the games i bought, and don't need to find back where on earth is the serial when wanting to install on a new pc (and it's always patched to the latest version).

    :/ ...

    Waiting hours for 4GB of data to download from slow content servers. And patches are a problem. Not the first time a "new and automatic" patch made a game unplayable. The user should decide if and when a patch is applied as like every software also patches can be defunct in certain configuration that the devers simply could not foresee.

    CAPTCHA: bling bling! Yo man! Steam sux man! :D

  • d00d_eye_m_l33t (unregistered)

    I call BS. Looks like a photoshop job to me.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymousalicious
    Anonymousalicious:
    You claim to have worked on the Quake engine, yet use words like "patchs", "gamming" and "companys"?

    Good thing C++ isn't spelling-sensitive. Oh wait...

    I believe that by "working on" he/she means "have done development with the engine for a mod/addon/etc." rather than "I wrote the engine".

  • (cs) in reply to WhoCares:D
    WhoCares:D:
    WIldpeaks:
    WhoCares:D:
    Wow... who ever said "Steam is a great product" really needs his mind cleaned ( and this from somebody claiming to be an "Open Source" guy :( )

    Still better than the HL1 uninstaller. This one had the funny idea to delete my entire "Program Files" directory. Since then I'm "jumpy" if an uninstaller takes longer than it should ;)

    CAPTCHA: tastey... wtf? ... This should be tasty :D

    Imho it's good for the side that no matter where I am, i don't need to bring the damn dvd with me everytime to get the games i bought, and don't need to find back where on earth is the serial when wanting to install on a new pc (and it's always patched to the latest version).

    :/ ...

    Waiting hours for 4GB of data to download from slow content servers. And patches are a problem. Not the first time a "new and automatic" patch made a game unplayable. The user should decide if and when a patch is applied as like every software also patches can be defunct in certain configuration that the devers simply could not foresee.

    CAPTCHA: bling bling! Yo man! Steam sux man! :D

    It took me 3 install efforts to realise that the Cancel button at the end of the HL1 installer did not mean "don't install DirectX" like they implied, but "uninstall the entire thing I just spent 10 minutes installing kthx".

  • (cs)

    Why on earth would you want to uninstall HL2?!

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Anonymousalicious
    Anonymousalicious:
    You claim to have worked on the Quake engine, yet use words like "patchs", "gamming" and "companys"?

    Good thing C++ isn't spelling-sensitive. Oh wait...

    Quake is C. Half-Life 1 and Half-Life 2 is C++ but is feel like C-ish code.

    Yea, my spelling is horrible. Sorry.

    --Tei

  • ChrisH (unregistered)

    That's just installation config, the high-speed part of HL2.

    You can measure level load times in terms of human gestation periods. And there's a hint for something better to do ;)

  • Wene Gerchinko (unregistered) in reply to 1337 h4x0r

    [quote user="1337 h4x0r"][quote user="Anonymousalicious"]... you know, there are people living outside Anglophonia gasp[/quote]

    You mean Anklebonia, right?

  • Worf (unregistered)

    Half-Life 1 (the original version) uses the Quake engine. Half-Life 2 uses Valve's own engine, called Source, that cobbles together the Havok physics engine and something else I forget. Half-Life Source is a redoing of Half Life in the Source engine (which makes life harder in some parts because the physics are modelled better, but the graphics are oh-so-turn-of-the-century.

    The nice thing with Steam is that I don't need the bloody CDs and DVDs anymore if you can wait. Just install the Steam client, then just get all my games again via the download service. Quite handy if you're on a fast link. One of the nicer features of Steam, I'd say (I got into this half-life game late, so I didn't have to endure the hassles that were the early versions of Steam).

    OTOH, I don't see why the uninstall should take so long - like modern games, Half-Life 2 doesn't install a million files - just a few large ones...

  • mnature (unregistered) in reply to 1337 h4x0r
    1337 h4x0r:
    Anonymousalicious:
    You claim to have worked on the Quake engine, yet use words like "patchs", "gamming" and "companys"?

    Good thing C++ isn't spelling-sensitive. Oh wait...

    Maybe english isn't his first language... you know, there are people living outside Anglophonia gasp

    I see. He is an Elbonian, then?

    CAPTCHA: muhahaha

  • Builder (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    Builder:
    During any uninstall, if a dialog ever pops up and asks you something like: Are you sure you want to remove these shared libraries? Well, the estimated time left factors in how long it takes you to hit ok and continue with the uninstall.

    What if you started the uninstall before you went to bed and woke up the next morning and hit ok? Well, that's easy... you get that huge number of minutes left to uninstall.

    It's not really a wtf.

    You're kidding, right?

    If an uninstall has 100 steps that each take your system 1 second to complete, it will display 100 seconds to uninstall. If step 5 prompts you to click on something and you don't click on it for 3 days, it takes the first 4 steps of 1 second and adds to it 3*24*60*60, adds them all together and displays the time left to uninstall being 20 times longer then it has taken to get that far.

    This isn't rocket science... I just hope your job doesn't require you to think so logically.

  • Builder (unregistered) in reply to Watson
    Watson:
    real_aardvark:
    You're kidding, right?
    I got the feeling that was the point being made; that, unable to discern why the user took so long to click 'Continue', the uninstaller just takes the length of time that it did as the length of time it takes. But I have a hard time thinking that this would even be considered when estimating completion time. For exactly this reason.

    No one cares if an installer or uninstaller displays accurate estimates of time remaining. It's a waste of time to even try to code for it. Are you going to return that program you are uninstalling because it uninstalled too slow? Or even that it installed too slow?

    Who cares?

  • slayer114 (unregistered)

    nice one. jest a hunch, was his pc made in the 70s?

  • psychiccheese (unregistered)

    It takes so long to install, since it's designed to take 30 minutes for the first half to uninstall, and then 30 more minutes for half of the remaining files to uninstall, and 30 more... you get the point. So he's lucky that the installer has an end time set at all.

  • jordanwb (unregistered)

    One time in Kubuntu it said 1 second remaining to copy 200Megs onto my flash drive, my laptop had USB 1.1

  • Josh (unregistered)

    Do you hear that ~1hz clicking noise from your HDD? Yeah? Well, you hard drive is (re)trying to do I/O, and the operating system is waiting for it to finish.

    But, seriously, I've seen those estimates go off the walls when HDD's are acting up.

  • neminem (unregistered) in reply to nikolas
    nikolas:
    >> By contrast, Duke Nukem Forever will take just over a year to uninstall.

    is it out, yet ?

    Man... what with the recent announcement, it'll be a sad day when DNF actually gets released... we'll finally have to collectively find some other product to compare new vaporware announcements to.

    Or I suppose we could just keep using the Phantom.

  • the last poster (unregistered)

    for real, this is the last post

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