• GreyHatHarry (unregistered)

    You never want to be the frist at your company to set up PuffyCould.

  • (nodebb)

    I'm wondering what percentage of software development happens because stupid managers and bored programmers are inventing things to do.

  • Russell (unregistered) in reply to Mr. TA

    The only way to know is to immediately drop what we are working on and write some software to automate the task of finding this out

  • -s- (unregistered)

    Do people really get laid off this easily?

  • snoofle (unregistered) in reply to -s-

    Sadly, all the time. I was once in this same position. The manager was bent on using some product to automate some of our workflow. They sent me to a class at the vendor, where I spoke to the lead developer of their system, who told me, in writing via email, that their system would absolutely NOT do what we wanted the way we needed it done. In spite of this, our manager bought it anyway (kickback?) and forced us to hack around all of its limitations.

    Had I pushed my position, I'm reasonably certain that I would have been fired.

  • (nodebb) in reply to -s-

    Even easier to get laid off here in the states. I got let go once due to after the project was done, turned in on time based off of the estimate which everyone signed off on, and the project worked without errors. Basically I did exactly what was asked, within the timeline agreed upon and did it without having error which would delay the release. All because someone early on though the project should have taken a third of the time that it actually did and only questioned the timeline after the fact. Honestly, in places like that, the best thing is to get laid off.

  • Reginald P. Smithington (unregistered) in reply to -s-

    In the US you can be fired for any reason not explicitly protected by law. For instance, they can't fire you for being Jewish, but the can fire you for having blue eyes or black hair.

  • Brian (unregistered) in reply to Reginald P. Smithington

    Of course, "at-will" employment runs both ways: yes, your employer can fire you at any time for almost any reason, but you can also quit your job at any time for almost any reason. There's no obligation on either side, thus (ideally) both parties should be working together to foster a mutually beneficial relationship. Unfortunately, in the real world there are many people who don't quite get that concept.

    However, the rules for contract employees are usually a bit different, as a contract is (supposed to be) a binding agreement to work for a certain amount of time and/or money. Unless there's some kind of escape clause, breaking a contract does carry legal consequences. Since Buford was a contract employee, it's likely that the boss just chose not to renew it when the time was up.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Brian

    In the UK, and most other countries, an employee can leave at any point and will only have to work a contractual notice period. If an employer wishes to fire you, they cannot just "fire you"; they have to either prove you have committed some form of misconduct or have to make you redundant, which normally requires you to be paid off according to the law.

    In the US, you can get fired whenever for any legal reason. There is no employment protection (aside from CA, I believe).

    Disclaimer: I worked 8 years in the UK and 5 in the US.

  • golddog (unregistered) in reply to Russell

    Heh, good one!

  • Adriano (unregistered) in reply to Brian

    Of course, "at-will" employment runs both ways: yes, your employer can fire you at any time for almost any reason, but you can also quit your job at any time for almost any reason.

    The number of times "at-will" employment actually runs both ways is much less than the number of times it favors employers.

  • Grey no beard (unregistered) in reply to GreyHatHarry

    Probably don't want to be first either :-)

  • Faroguy (unregistered) in reply to GreyHatHarry

    I am that person... we are currently discussing it... meaning my manager is making phone calls while I keep the current setup running.

  • snoofle (unregistered) in reply to Reginald P. Smithington

    A (highly paid) friend of mine once got laid off because "they were discontinuing my position". The next day, there was a job posting for the same job, but with one additional tangential skill added to the job description. They got away with hiring a new (cheap junior) developer for the slot because they discontinued the old position, and came up with a new one that was barely, but sufficiently legally different.

    If they want to get rid of someone, there's always a loophole through which they can slither, and there's really nothing you can do about it, except (as others have pointed out) to count your blessings that you get the (perhaps unplanned, but fortunate) opportunity to get out of there.

  • (nodebb) in reply to GreyHatHarry
    You never want to be the frist at your company to set up PuffyCould.

    I prefer to use Puffy Couldn't

  • Raj (unregistered) in reply to Brian

    Most contract work I've done had something like a 10-day GTFO clause. Basically it means the client may keep you for as long as the contract indicates but they can terminate early without explanation with a 10 day notice. As the contractor I could leave anytime without being sued but then my name would be tarnished, which is probably worse.

  • (nodebb)

    Sounds so very familiar. Out of the box, our $200k/year maintenace $$$$ERP system is configured to create database tables so they initially hold 10 vendors, with an additional 10 vendors per extent. You must manually configure the initial extent and subsequent extent sizes for some 4,200 tables.

    Yes. I did say manually

    Addendum 2018-11-29 11:31:

    Misspelled "maintenance" - sorry bout that ;)

  • (nodebb)

    Where's the WTF?

    This happens all the time.

    Addendum 2018-11-29 12:11: So much so that there are multiple Dilbert strips about it.

  • Zach (unregistered) in reply to Developer_Dude

    Each and every time this kind of f*** up happens is a WTF

  • Tom Passin (unregistered) in reply to snoofle

    "If they want to get rid of someone, there's always a loophole through which they can slither, and there's really nothing you can do about it, except (as others have pointed out) to count your blessings that you get the (perhaps unplanned, but fortunate) opportunity to get out of there."

    One time-honored way (especially where simply firing someone is unusual or difficult) is to make sure that the victim gets a bad performance reviews This justifies putting him on probation, where it is easier to make sure he gets more bad reviews. Finally, those reviews become a legal justification for firing.

  • I'm not a robot (unregistered) in reply to Bananafish
    Misspelled "maintenance" - sorry bout that ;)
    Nah, you made a portmanteau of "maintenance" and "menace", which seems entirely appropriate given the rest of the post.
  • ZZartin (unregistered) in reply to -s-

    Contractor and yes they do get let go easily, but sounds like his contract was up anyways.

  • annanonymous coward (unregistered) in reply to Mr. TA

    this is 100% of where docker comes from

  • Benjamin (unregistered)

    PuffyCloud? Will the next release be called P. Cloudy, followed by just Cloudy? Did one of PuffyCloud's associates assassinate the CEO of 2Pack Secure, a rival shipping software company?

  • (nodebb) in reply to ZZartin

    Where are people getting that his contract was up? One, it says "terminated" right in the story and I would expect different language for it if it just lapsed. Two, I see "lengthy project," "end of next sprint," and "two week sprint." For a 6 month contract to be up, that means "lengthy" was 5 months. For 12, you're talking 11. My guess would be a 12 month contract where he had in the neighborhood of 3-4 months left.

    That said, yeah, this happens alot, at least in this part of the US. I've been suddenly left go from 6 month contracts with 5 months to 5 days left. Usually it's just poor management that doesn't know what it wants, doesn't communicate with you, or both. On the instances where it's been right before the end, I've interpreted it as an act of spite. Management is really angry at its own incompetence but cannot own up to it and takes the easy way out.

    Having been through that, I can safely say that, despite the inconvenience of a sudden layoff, Buford is better off not having to work with a cretin like Tanner.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Zenith

    You're assuming way too much correlation between the details invented to pad out the story and reality.

  • (nodebb) in reply to Dave

    Still, terminated as a synonym for lapsed is sloppy.

  • Bill (unregistered)

    In the US, many contract employers are employed through an agency under that agency's standard contract. This contract almost always allows the client to end the contract without notice or penalty.

  • David (unregistered) in reply to Dave

    Actually that's not correct there are many reasons you can be dismissed in the UK:

    • Not being able to do your job properly
    • Illness
    • Redundancy
    • Summary dismissal
    • A ‘statutory restriction’
    • It’s impossible to carry on employing you
    • A ‘substantial reason’

    (source https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/reasons-you-can-be-dismissed)

    This case would be "Not being able to do your job properly" in which case the employer must:

    • follow disciplinary procedures - eg warn you that your work isn’t satisfactory
    • give you a chance to improve - eg by training you

    If you are dismissed without follow this process you could try to claim for unfair dismissal which is described here:

    https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/unfair-and-constructive-dismissal

    Also it's not correct that in the UK you "have to work a contractual notice period". You can leave early if you come to an agreement with you employer. You can also just quit and not come back which is very common in the UK. In most cases the employer can do nothing but they can sue you if your breach of contract caused the company substantial losses, for example if you leave without completing a handover and there is some significant process or IP that is lost. Also if they can prove a customer has left which might be due to missing a deadline due to your departure. These are generally rare circumstance but if you are at a high level position within the company it could be the case that they will sue. Some contracts will state exactly what they are able to sue you for which is good for the employee as it limits the scope of what they can sue you for (without they can sue you for any problems that arise due to the breach of contract).

  • (nodebb) in reply to David

    they can sue you if your breach of contract caused the company substantial losses

    That's fairly uncommon; no point in suing someone unless they've got the assets to let you recover both your costs and your compensation.

  • smf (unregistered) in reply to David

    While you can be let go because of illness, it's not necessarily easy & most companies don't do it quickly as it creates a real morale problem with their other employees.

    From your link....

    "Illness You can be dismissed if you have a persistent or long-term illness that makes it impossible for you to do your job.

    Before taking any action, your employer should:

    look for ways to support you - eg considering whether the job itself is making you sick and needs changing give you reasonable time to recover from your illness If you have a disability (which may include long-term illness), your employer has a legal duty to support disability in the workplace.

    Dismissal because of a disability may be unlawful discrimination."

    This is only for an employee, if you've been taken on as a contractor and your illness is going to prevent you completing the contract and they have someone else who can take over then you'll probably be let go pretty quickly

  • Erter (unregistered)
  • (nodebb) in reply to I'm not a robot

    Misspelled "maintenance" - sorry bout that ;)

    Nah, you made a portmanteau of "maintenance" and "menace", which seems entirely appropriate given the rest of the post.

    The subconscious is a powerful and misunderstood technology, apparently!

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