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Admin
A couple of observations.
First, in a society that values freedom of expression, surely the owners and authors of a blog are entitled to decide what they publish? You're perfectly entitled to disagree with their editorial decisions, but that doesn't make you the arbiter of what belongs here. Or does your commitment to freedom of expression only extend to things you agree with?
Second, you're under no obligation to read articles you don't like, much less participate in discussions about them.
And third, you've spent several paragraphs telling me that discussing the ethics of prison technology is inappropriate here, while offering your own political opinions about prisons. Do you not see the contradiction?
I'm not asking you to agree with my politics. I'm asking whether engineers have a professional responsibility to consider the consequences of the technology they build.
You may disagree with my answer. But surely the question itself is worth asking.
As for your demands for sources, I'm not going to get drawn into an argument about American prison policy when that isn't the point I'm making. Nor do I appreciate the insinuation that I'm some misinformed rube who's simply swallowed whatever propaganda happens to be circulating, apparently because I happen to live outside the United States.
If you disagree with something I've actually said, by all means challenge it. But please engage with my argument rather than making assumptions about my intelligence or judgement.
Where I come from, we try to play the ball, not the man.
Admin
Yeah, well. You don't have to watch international news. Watch any domestic documentary on your jail system. Judges, who hand out jail sentences for the slightest of misdemeanours to youngsters and who hold shares in the local prisoin company, are also not unheard of (I don't say they are the norm, but it was more than one). Check out one of the gazzillion yt channels, which show bodycam footage of police interactions. You end up in jail for basically nothing. Deescalation is basically non-existent in the US.
And that is only the judicial system. You threaten to attack your allies. You bomb other countries which causes the gas and diesel prices to soar. Afterwards, you blame a country, which fights for its existence against a goliath, for said price increase. You put "counter" tariffs on your friends, who don't even have a single tariff on your products. You hijack people and take their belongings. I do not say, that everybody else is righteous and holy, but that shouldn't be a factor. Just because your neighbour is a piece of rear end droppings, doesn't mean you can shoot him or take his car, now does it?
Seriously: What is going on? The US was always selfish af and it will always be. But in the past you had the decency to not show it so openly. Obama didn't apologise for spying on everybody. He apologised for getting caught.
TDWTF doesn't owe you anything. They can publish whatever they see fit. And if they think, it is the right thing to raise awareness for a topic, then more power to them. If you don't care, skip the article.
Admin
That indeed is an interesting question. And I would say no.
As far as I am concerned as an engineer I bore the responsibility of a craftsman. Which is to say, I was responsible for doing my work to the best of my ability to achieve the best results I could achieve within the constraints given to me. What I did not bear is the responsibility of use. This, as far as I am concerned, is true for all fields of engineering.
The man who designs locomotives should by all right only care that they are reliable, efficient and generally high value for money. He should not care if they are used to deliver humanitarian aid to staving orphans or inmates to a concentration camp. That is not his purvey. And indeed, I would say that it is unprofessional and wrong for him to do so. And that it is absolutely unacceptable to allow such considerations to impact his work.
As a professional I feel it is my duty to leave my personal opinions and even morality at the door and do the job I am paid for or resign. And nothing in between.
Admin
Legit answer. Maybe not the one I'd give, but at least you seem to hold it honestly and are prepared to share your reasoning.
I can respect that.
Admin
Most people value free expression greatly, but that does not mean we want every topic everywhere. It's one thing to try to branch out a little, but it is an entirely separate matter when you completely go off the stated topic that you've held to for virtual eons. It's like suddenly diving into boat repair in the middle of a cooking show. This article was simply posted to the wrong venue. What doesn't help at all apologists enabling more of this behavior, as it's just wrong. If you want to discuss politics, then go to a place that already exists for that; this is something most people easily comprehend yet some, for whatever reason, just cannot wrap their heads around the idea that more people than not do not appreciate being ambushed by completely unexpected off-topic content.
Admin
This actually tied into my point. These is a niche cases and not representative of how it is everywhere in the country, yet if you go by all the media reports, that's the view you can end up with. I have also heard of some pretty bad prisons, wardens, guards, and corrupt judges in Europe and Asia as well, but people here seem to believe that these problems only happen in the US, which is downright disingenuous to say the least.
Admin
Based on the responses here, many people found it on topic.
The funny thing is people who disliked the article whose reaction is to try to shut it down. The Daily WTF is a private company, and can publish what it wants. Go ahead and post "if you keep publishing stuff like this I'm going to stop coming here", but stopping others from discussing it being your go-to is pretty telling.
Admin
We should judge our societies by the way they treat what they regard as the worst people within them.
This article correctly asserts that most US prisoners are powerless - locked up by predatory companies who have no interest in rehabilitation, and generally convey a disregard of human life by treating these people worse than animals.
It is an absolute disgrace and should never garner even a smidgeon of support from any decent person but, as is pointed out, people are simply not aware.
Admin
I mean, the soapbox section has existed here since forever and it's not really uncommon for magazines to include a column or two off the primary topic. This is far from the first time a politically-minded article has been poste din the soapbox, but the first time the comment section is such a shitstorm. The reason is clear, this particular issue just does not hit the correct notes with some people and they'd rather not see it on a website they like to frequent. Which is understandable, but people should own it, not act like it's some matter of abstract principle of rejecting all things political on this website, that's a really lame excuse.
Admin
Then stop reading, and go elsewhere and pretend that technology isn't being used to oppress. You literally don't have to be here, and you can vote with your feet (well, clicks). Your world is still free enough that you can emulate a proverbial ostrich (which isn't a real ostrich, but that's just pointless nitpicking). Heck, that's what the oligarchs of the west are counting on most of all...
Admin
You might have noticed, that I am well aware of your point. I stated myself that those are edge cases and only two or three, not two or three thousand.
However, the point is that those cases being possible is part of the problem. IMHO, the act of depriving someone else of his freedom to move, is the domain of the state, not a private company. Then you turn the knob left and right and dial in the amount of punishment and resocialization as the public sees fit. Private companies have a different incentive: money.
And in the US there are few, if any, guard rails in place to prevent a company to screw over anyone who isn't up a tree by the count of three.
Does that mean that a state prison is a better place? No. It can suck just as much depending on the attitude of the society towards the whole thing. And thusly, IMNSHO, the TDWTF can post articles which point out (maybe only perceived?) problems in that attitude and try to influence things for the better(?).
Admin
No, the vast majority of responses indicate that it clearly wasn't. There are a ton of posts in this thread, as well as previous threads that also went similarly off-topic, of people expressing that they don't come here for, nor appreciate, the hijacking of a site with a very specific topic. Stop trying to defend this behavior, stop trying to make excuses for it. If you want to talk politics, do it somewhere else where it is welcome. This is not a difficult idea to grasp.
Admin
Admin
This.
Some people, especially americans don't seem to understand just how many of us don't want politics shoved down our throats 24/7. Especially not american politics. They are just so used to politics being everywhere and at all times and constantly being told to "care" about the topic of the week that they don't seem to be able to comprehend an existence without that. Or for that matter why we frankly do not give a dam about their pet cause of the week.
But that is not the reality for most people. Most of us don't give a damn about any of that stuff. We just want to be entertained and get through our day. And what injustices if any are happening an ocean away in a barbaric land is of about as much interest to us as the weather forecast for last July on Mars.
And it's not because we are bad insensitive mini-hitlers who gleefully laugh at the suffering of others. It's because we live in our own countries with our own problems and we come to places like this to get away from those for a moment. So the absolute last thing we want or need is for our source of entertainment and relaxation to turn into the exact thing it is supposed to be unwinding us from.
Admin
There's a certain irony in all this. The article is complaining about prisons being not suitable for purpose while also decrying anyone being against politics here. The anti-politics stance is about the site becoming not fit for purpose.
There's also the bad faith argument that equates ethics and politics. Politics is tribal and strongly emotional (as this thread exemplifies). Ethics has a place here INSOFAR as it relates to software. The article has zero references to software.
You have many, many options to talk politics if you want. Stop trying to turn every site into the same black swill.
Admin
I can be, sure, but too often it is just a tool for manipulation using politics as a transport medium.
While I agree with most of what you said, this particular notion bugs me, as my family watches plenty of TV from abroad and I see politics interjected a lot, in UK and for other European countries as well, so this is not something that only happens with Americans, and once again shows that not everything you're told regarding the USA has been done with good faith. So I humbly ask, please stop and check before going off on such broad generalizations, or just leave it out if you can't be sure. I don't think it's a lot of ask. And that goes for any direction, too.
Admin
If you watch news channels yes. Also the national broadcasters, but those are basically propaganda with just enough programming sprinkled in to get you to stay for the propaganda. So you know what you are tuning into.
But you won't find such overt politics in say a channel airing cartoons, sports or movies. And this site is the equivalent of those. Like half of europe is on fire right now or having elections or both. But you won't see the sports channel pausing for a political update. Or a game being paused mid play because a player decided to make a political gesture. Because they know people watch sports to divert us away from the fire burning outside on the street.
But that's besides the point. My statement is not really about how much political propaganda is present in the media and public sphere but in how insanely passionate americans seem to get over it. Like, you people are able to just randomly dredge up all sorts of crazy causes out of thin air like this prison thing and than get incredibly passionately invested in it.
It's not that people over here don't care. But the level of emotional obsession and emotional venom americans seem to have for their pet cause of the week and its detractors are something you don't really do where I am from unless you have some serious skin in the game.
It's like, you pick a pet cause and than make it your whole identity. And that lasts as long as it does and than you pick the next one and repeat. That's my outsiders perspective of american activism over the last many, many decades anyway.
Admin
It's not just television. There are a ton of other sources that are just as bad and sometimes worse. Such as news websites, places like Facebook, Reddit, etc that foster echo chambers all too well. There are a ton of places with bad information, some more intentionally than others, that make good information hard to sift, and many of them don't care so much where you live so much as making sure that information get seen as much as possible.
Admin
I will admit to being too old for most of that stuff. I managed to figure out this site and I know my way around forums and such. But facebook is too creepy for me. I just can't bring my self to register on a site that requires and collects so much personal information about me. I can't even bring my self to register here.
But either way, as I said, it's more about the reaction. People these days just care too quickly and too short lived. Causes pop up left and right like roaches in a dirty kitchen and people are all too eager to jump on one, anyone, no matter how pointless and build their entire identity around them. And they won't ever fact check it or even care if its utterly worthless and pointless. They just want to have a cause and be seen having a cause. And they will defend this cause to the death to anyone who listens right up until it goes out of fashion.
And to my outsiders impression this seems to be especially prevalent in americans or at least most heavily pushed by the american part of the internet. I of course see the behavior over here as well. But it appears, at least to me, to be a case of modern american culture bleeding over and infecting us rather than a homegrown sentiment.
Back in the day, a cause had to actually be worth something to attract that sort of attention. Like your civil rights movement. Now it's all random stuff that in my day would probably not have hit 15th page of a newspaper on a slow day like prison mail policies.