• (cs) in reply to Bellinghman
    Bellinghman:
    Big Disk:
    And what is it that these dreadfully important "window handles" consume, anyway? Memory? Disk? Photon torpedoes? Or did some hopelessly stupid needs to be fired and then shot programmer decide to set an arbitrary limit of, say, 512 "window handles" and then you're dead?
    Memory. And not just any memory, but a special form of memory, so merely adding extra RAM has no effect whatsoever.

    Back in the days of Windows 3.0, there was a memory limit of 64K. And it wasn't per application, oh noes!, it was the entire system. If your application used too many windows, fonts, bitmaps, icons and so on, then the entire system showed the problem, being unable to create any more.

    I think Windows 95 doubled this pool size to 128K. I don't know what limits may be in force under, say, XP.

    Big Disk:
    Oh, and there's no way to tell you're running low until suddenly hot damn fook me I'm outta handles?
    You got it. Welcome to Windows: you'll never look back now.
    GDI resource memory was once upon a time in short supply, yes. There was a way to get info on how much you had left though - I believe it was called "System Resource Monitor" and lived under Programs -> Accessories -> System Tools. This really was more of an issue on Win9x, which was far more... trusting about application developers and their ability to remember to free resources they allocated. On NT/2k/XP these resources are automatically freed when an application closes and come from a much larger (and possibly dynamically grown) pool, so it takes a lot longer to run out and usually requires a spectacularly badly behaved application or very badly written graphics drivers.
  • (cs) in reply to Bush Bumbaugh

    How do I email my Account Executive? Do I... like... attach him to the message?

  • (cs) in reply to kastein
    kastein:
    On NT/2k/XP these resources are automatically freed when an application closes and come from a much larger (and possibly dynamically grown) pool, so it takes a lot longer to run out and usually requires a spectacularly badly behaved application or very badly written graphics drivers.

    A badly written app (like Yahoo Messenger which leaks resources like a sieve) OR just run a lot of apps. On my 2Gig XP machine that means a dozen or so IE/FFs (FF is just as much of a resource hog as IE) with lots of pics.

    Don't get into this Win vs linux issue either, as linux will have similar issues. The limits are fairly large, but you can still run into it occasionally.

    Perhaps the OS can reserve some resources so it can display a "Resources are low, kill some programs" message. But then how does the user do that? Open up task manager, that doesn't have enough resources to display properly?

    While this may be a WTF from the OS point of view, it isn't from Excel's point of view. It is trying to handle the situation gracefully.

  • (cs) in reply to DJ
    DJ:
    Picture = 1000 words

    x = words per minute

    1000/x = cost per minute for 1 picture

    I believe this calculation would actually produce the number of minutes per picture.

    From wikipedia: "An average professional typist reaches 50 to 70 wpm, while some positions can require 80 to 95 (usually the minimum required for dispatch positions and other typing jobs), and some advanced typists work at speeds above 120."

    So, we could surmise that an advanced painter or photographer, should be able to produce a picture in approximately 8 minutes and 20 seconds, each of such quality that they meet the 1000 word requirement. Presumably this time would include development time for photographs, as to be worth 1000 words said picture must be viewable by humans.

    An average photographer or painter would get 20 minutes to produce such a picture.

  • RBoy (unregistered) in reply to Random832
    Random832:
    Big Disk:
    RBoy:
    Why is running out of system resources a WTF?
    It's not. As long as the system clearly tells you "I'm running out of disk space" and how to fix it. Going all blank and wonky is pretty lame, although, if you use a pretty lame OS I suppose you're used to it.

    (If it is running out of memory instead of disk space, it should try this trick they invented back in oh about 1965 or so: swap something to disk.)

    He said "system resources". What it is running out of are, unsurprisingly, system resources. (More formally, GDI and USER objects) Specifically, Windows has a limited number of slots for data structures of things to be drawn on the screen.

    When this is exceeded, there's no more room to even show an error message.

    @RBoy, I think the question is how is it not a WTF.

    If you ask me, it's sort of like a Ha! Look, they have a blue screen because there's a massive hardware error.

  • Gary Olson (unregistered) in reply to Big Disk
    And what is it that these dreadfully important "window handles" consume, anyway?
    Very long decorative brass wood screws. Hard to find a good decorative screw these days. Catchpa:abigo That's what she said.
  • Orbstart (unregistered) in reply to alegr
    alegr:
    To clear all misunderstanding:

    The maximum number of window handles per desktop (see CreateDesktop()) is about 32K. There is also an arbitrary limit of number of handles per process which is 10000 by default, but can be changed by a registry setting.

    There is limit on number of GDI handles, which depends on session heap usage (separate per terminal session).

    There is no explicit limit on number of file handles or other kernel handles (synchronization objects, etc), other than non-paged pool exaustion. Pre-Vista/2008, NP pool size was limited at 256 MB for x86 flavor. There is no explicit NP pool size limit now, other than physical memory size (1/4 of it) and 2GB of kernel space in x86 OS.

    Thank you. A sound and rational posting. Under XP, if your application happens to consume 10000+ GDI objects, say due to a bug in a third party ActiveX control, then yeah your desktop session is screwed unless you can manage to get task manager to work enough to kill the process in question. Don't know about other Windows editions.

    And yes, consuming a massive amount of GDI resources or window handles is bad application design. E.g. If your window is constructed out of lots of child windows perhaps consider whether those child windows are really necessary or whether they could just become painted as part of the parent window.

    I don't know how X handles a similar runaway situation?

  • bigbird (unregistered) in reply to Big Disk
    Big Disk:
    Anonymous:
    The Real WTF probably is requiring 65 GB before the setup even bothers to try installation.
    Nowdays every system I buy I just get a TB disk right away and I'm done worrying about disk space. A TB ought to be enough for anyone.

    Isn't that what they said about a GB?

  • Jim (unregistered) in reply to bigbird
    bigbird:
    Big Disk:
    Anonymous:
    The Real WTF probably is requiring 65 GB before the setup even bothers to try installation.
    Nowdays every system I buy I just get a TB disk right away and I'm done worrying about disk space. A TB ought to be enough for anyone.

    Isn't that what they said about a GB?

    Yeah, but now anyone watch pr0n.

  • Late worker (unregistered)

    Im running a VBA application I have written in Excel. It runs through the night saving files and no conflicting with live users. It sometimes crashes out because of insufficient display resources. The real problem is the screen saver, it blocks it from displaying. Problem is being a work computer, I don't have access to turn the screensaver off.

  • Irish Girl (unregistered)

    The real WTF here is that I must be the only one here that listens to Internet radio. I'm looking at an ad on KFOG (San Francisco radio station) right now.

  • Paul Emsley (unregistered)

    IIRC, I also added a Jorge Garcia quote as a minor easter egg to that dialog that should appear occasionally...

    I am glad that Jordan Eunson at least found it amusing.

  • Malcolm (unregistered) in reply to Bush Bumbaugh

    ... they may be talking about digital ratio (DAB or DAB+) which can do images and other metadata along with the audio ...

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous Asshole
    Anonymous Asshole:
    If that were the case, TRWTF would be the software using the term GB when it means GiB.
    SI apostle appears and takes 65535 critical damage!
  • Flywheel (unregistered)

    Looks like someone needs to change the format on their phone numbers. Substitute the commas for dashes.

  • (cs) in reply to Orbstart
    Orbstart:
    I don't know how X handles a similar runaway situation?
    I believe it has a (much) larger ID space and allocates fewer long-lifespan handles.
  • Jo (unregistered) in reply to Bush Bumbaugh
    Bush Bumbaugh:
    Radio announcer: (shuffling papers) I have here in my hands a magnificent picture of this really hot chick holding our sponsor's product, and let me tell you, if you could see her you'd want to rush right out and getcha somma this stuff.

    Radio is the "theater of the mind". So if your audience even imagines our marketing image, you're going to need a Super License. Call or email your Account Executive now! You don't want the hot chick to leave, do you?

    Add obligatory comment about Irish Girl hgere

  • Idiot (unregistered) in reply to housecaldwell
    housecaldwell:
    No. It's not allowed. In fact, to save time, I think the system should automatically enter 3 posts to every new article: 1) "Frist" or a variation 2) "First suckers! Edit: Oh wait, second" 3) "In soviet Russia <article subject> <article verb> you"
    I LIKE this. Can we get an RFC going for this, please?

    Don't forget the ob captcha joke -- this can just be randomly attached to one of the first three comments.

    Captcha: Appellatio Sex in the mountains?

    I figgured sex with an apple..... Sahme I'm 1 post rtoo late....

  • Mwa (unregistered) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    The Old Coot dialog is old; I recognize what library they're using and (approximately) what version of it too. Time for them to upgrade, especially on Macs or Windows...

    I suspect it's deliberate too.
    (Most) Programmers have a sense of humour. I can imagine thinking it hilariously (well alright, maybe not hilariously) funny to add a comment about "Old Coots" when a version expires.... Amusing? yes. WTF? Not really.

    Oh, and just in case you missed it from the other 20 other people....The 65GB is probably a rounding/bad math/incorrect GB calculation problem.

  • Mwa (unregistered) in reply to Fast Eddie
    Fast Eddie:
    qbe:
    1) "Frist" or a variation 2) "First suckers! Edit: Oh wait, second" 3) "In soviet Russia <article subject> <article verb> you" 4) Thoughtless derivative comments 5) The Real WTF is <unrelated bashing> 6) 01001110 01101111 7) captcha: Iamanidiot 8) ???? 9) PROFIT
    We are still missing the ob "Why is <insert subject> a WTF?" comment. Please fix this by including the updated comment on a wooden table with a picture of Irish Girl.

    Thank you.

    And of course a random post that appears to relate to one of them, followed immediately by the same post, this time with the quote included.

  • Dude!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (unregistered) in reply to chrismcb
    chrismcb:
    kastein:
    On NT/2k/XP these resources are automatically freed when an application closes and come from a much larger (and possibly dynamically grown) pool, so it takes a lot longer to run out and usually requires a spectacularly badly behaved application or very badly written graphics drivers.

    A badly written app (like Yahoo Messenger which leaks resources like a sieve) OR just run a lot of apps. On my 2Gig XP machine that means a dozen or so IE/FFs (FF is just as much of a resource hog as IE) with lots of pics.

    Don't get into this Win vs linux issue either, as linux will have similar issues. The limits are fairly large, but you can still run into it occasionally.

    Perhaps the OS can reserve some resources so it can display a "Resources are low, kill some programs" message. But then how does the user do that? Open up task manager, that doesn't have enough resources to display properly?

    While this may be a WTF from the OS point of view, it isn't from Excel's point of view. It is trying to handle the situation gracefully.

    Like loads of porno sites open, with plenty thumbnail??

  • (cs) in reply to Control This
    Control This:
    The first drive ... must be connected to a SCSI, ATA or SATA disk controller. The first disk ... is connected to ATA.
    This one's obvious enough: throw out your ATA controller and upgrade to a "SCSI, ATA or SATA disk controller" like you've been told!
    I think you've got it wrong there. It's obvious he has a disk, but needs a drive.
  • Bob (unregistered) in reply to captain obvious
    captain obvious:
    Can we seriously please stop these thoughtless derivative comments that occur every article?
    Yes. Yes, we most definately can stop.

    Will we stop?

    No.

    But we can, if we want to.

    Thanks for asking.

    (Also, we probably will stop about 30 seconds after it gets boring, and people like you bitching about it just keep it fun. Plus, we get to bitch at you for bitching about us. And you have no idea how much we love doing that. If you stop, we'll probably keep it up for at least a month or two, just hoping that we'll drive you mental and you won't be able to resist complaining. And then you'll be right back where you started)

    The real WTF: complaining on the internet about people who're easily amused by simple jokes, and expecting to be taken seriously. :)

    Btw, my captcha was "causa" - causa you probably also hate-a people who post-a their captcha-s.

  • Talidorn (unregistered)

    If you have more than 1 coot...

    Do you call them cooties?

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