• immibis (unregistered) in reply to Outlaw Programmer
    Outlaw Programmer:
    This DBA needs to learn a lesson from the "Clbuttic WTF" and just filter his e-mails through a script that changes "I" to "We." Example:

    "I've gone ahead an implemented the changes"

    becomes:

    "We've gone ahead an wemplemented the changes"

    Done and done!

    We agree wweth Outlaw Programmer on thwes topwec. Damn, why does thwes e-mawel fwelter change wet to we whenever i type, wee wen the towelet becomes wen the towelet.

    Captcha: incassum. That should be wencassum. Stupid captcha.

  • (cs) in reply to Niki
    Niki:
    This reminds me of the first episode of the IT Crowd (when the IT department goes to see the boss because they don't like the new employee Jen).
    Jen was their new BOSS, not employee...

    You probably think that's a picture of my family. Uh-uh! It's the A-Team. Boldy.. Doyle.. Tiger.. Jewelry Man.

    And yes, I thought the same thing when I read the story too ;-)

  • Prick (unregistered)

    ALL YOUR (data)BASES ARE BELONG TO US!!

  • paratus (unregistered) in reply to GrandmasterB
    GrandmasterB:
    Like most Oracle DBAs, Shawn sounds like a control freak. And I dont mean that as a compliment.

    When will DBAs, Tech Support people, and other 'IT' staff just accept the fact that we programmers reside at the top of the technical evolutionary pyramid? They exist to support programmers, the people who actually make the magic occur. No one 'aspires' to be a DBA or tech support person - those are just either people who couldnt succeed as programmers, or young folk who havent developed into that task yet.

    As far as the boss - he's probably right. It sounds like the DBA came across as quite the jerk in email.

    Well, some programmers could make decent dbas, but most programmers lack the oranisation skills needed... And no, I am not a DBA, I am a programmer.

    the good ones are just as valuable as a good programmer, and the bad ones fuck things up just as good as a bad programmer.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to GregP
    GregP:
    I don't have any studies on hand to support it, but in general using inclusive words such as "we" and "us" gets a better response from people

    Not necessarily. "We" only works if it's being applied by someone that the subject perceives as his peer. If some fresh-out-of-school MBA wanders up to a programmer and lectures him on the technical decisions that "we" agreed on and that "we" now need to implement, it'll be interpreted as exactly what it is, a totally superficial attempt at invoking team spirit that the MBA got taught in Business Management 101.

  • VP (unregistered) in reply to Dave

    I find good DBA or database people in general pretty darn valuable... Sure I can write queries and work with our databases but I sure as hell feel a bit more confident when a DBA or similar goes over it and optimises...

    Nonetheless I fail to see certain WTFs in this article... The fact that the person behind the story doesn't understand the "we-mantra" just means a total lack of psychological understanding. Actually if he had understod the team-building and team-mantra from the beginning he'd most likely head-butt a lot less and coerced the developers a lot faster.

  • AC (unregistered) in reply to Troy McClure
    Troy McClure:
    Sorry but a dba has no business checking over my code. They wouldn't want me checking over the init.ora parameters. DBA's are paid to administer the database, and not develop shit in it. I'd tell Shawn where he could go stick it.

    That depends.... if your database is full of data about furry fluff friends for facebook, and you know what you're doing, I agree.

    However, if it is a financial application with millions of customers and 10 times as many hits per day, the tetchy dba is the only person keeping the system afloat. His/her job is to know the database inside out. Your job is to know the code inside out. If the database completely locks up, it should be the dba's fault, not yours.

  • (cs) in reply to dave

    Anal-retentive control freaks like that are what make a developer's life miserable.

    I solemnly promise to not break the DB structure as long as the DBAs keep their fingers off my code.

  • lolcat (unregistered)

    Anthem.

    But that wasn't nearly as good as Brave New World for exploring the "everything belongs to everyone" mode of social self-awareness.

    We need to change our pbuttword.

  • jim steichen (unregistered) in reply to DKO

    These are not the WTFs you're looking for. We can about our business. Move along.

  • Krissi (unregistered)

    This was a very good, you saved my lunch brake once again daily wtf, cheers.

  • (cs) in reply to Xsaero00
    Xsaero00:
    Why can't developers have their own databases. Each his own that they can play and break. Only when code goes to testing or more so production, the review process should be in place.

    Why let the developer waste their time going down a path that the DBA isn't going to allow to happen? Better to review up front and see if it's worth pursuing at all.

    I've worked with really good DBA's that reviewed an idea I had and said, "No, you shouldn't do that. But how about this instead?" and helped work out a better solution. (Of course, I've also worked with really bad DBA's that shouldn't have been allowed to work directly with people, too.)

  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    And people like the original poster make me stop reading comments because they clog them up with useless, wrong, stupid crap. Then, when called on it, suddenly they're "only joking".

    Don't fall for it. It's a lazy attempt to save face when called on being caught for the idiot they are.

    Emoticons exist for a reason. If the original poster was really "joking" they could have used one to mark it. Lord knows that there'd be no other way to tell, since it certainly wasn't funny, amusing, or clever in any way, shape, or form.

    And people who post under the name "Anon" are stupid morons who like to criticize people without having the balls to use their real identities, hiding behind a cloak of bullshit to act like jackasses.

    If you don't like reading "useless, wrong, stupid crap", stop making your useless, wrong, stupid crap posts here. IOW, STFU, asshole.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to G. Orwell
    G. Orwell:
    Joe:
    al:
    Joe:
    Am I the only one that immediately thought of Ayn Rand's Anthem? It's about a future dystopia where the concept of the individual no longer exists. It's a Liberal's wet dream. The protagonist in the mini-novel refers to himself as "we".

    Now we know how Anthem truly begins. I think this "Shawn O." is really Shawn 0-5714.

    P.S. It was a socialist's wet dream. The dystopia can just as easily be attributed to either of the modern US political philosophies. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolan_chart - the Anthem dystopia is the lower left, an equal distance from either US political party.

    Thanks for the link. You're right. The political spectrum is a circle, not a line. Fascism for example is (probably more so) just as much prevalent on the far left as it is on the far right. One side tells you you can't eat trans fats while the other side tells you that dildos can't be sold in stores. Both sides are equal shit heads.

    Under communism, you're probably cold and hungry too.

    I actually come from a communist country. The great thing about communism is that everyone's equal.

    Equally cold and hungry.

  • (cs) in reply to Taz
    Taz:
    Anal-retentive control freaks like that are what make a developer's life miserable.

    I solemnly promise to not break the DB structure as long as the DBAs keep their fingers off my code.

    Last company I worked for, we gave strict instructions to HR only to employ DBAs who were Yakuzas.

    After four weeks or so, they were welcome to borrow one of my fingers. But only to swivel.

  • (cs)
    The new company was different. They had things like bright lights. People smiled and offered one another friendly greetings.
    WHAT KIND OF A MADHOUSE IS THIS?!?
  • (cs) in reply to Congo
    Congo:
    Sometimes cartesian joins are useful.

    The ratio of accidental to intentional cartesian joins is about 10,000:1

  • (cs)

    We are very much amused.

  • (cs) in reply to Joe
    Joe:
    I actually come from a communist country. The great thing about communism is that everyone's equal.

    Equally cold and hungry.

    We know. But some are more equal.

  • (cs)

    this is the kind of story that i started coming here for. systematic, institutional stupidity, and beautifully narrated. thank you.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to alegr
    alegr:
    Joe:
    I actually come from a communist country. The great thing about communism is that everyone's equal.

    Equally cold and hungry.

    We know. But some are more equal.

    Somebody's been reading Animal Farm...

    [image]
  • (cs)

    Well, perhaps it is a personal preference at times, but I (note the 'I') tend to use that reference when it is something I know I have screwed up. If I'm addressing a group of my peers, I will use 'I' when I'm speaking and will tend to use other pronouns when a problem has occurred.

    I tend to think that the use of such usually gets the attention of the individuals in question (sometimes) and hopefully ends on a civil note.

  • (cs) in reply to JoeDelekto
    JoeDelekto:
    Well, perhaps it is a personal preference at times, but I (note the 'I') tend to use that reference when it is something I know I have screwed up. If I'm addressing a group of my peers, I will use 'I' when I'm speaking and will tend to use other pronouns when a problem has occurred.

    I tend to think that the use of such usually gets the attention of the individuals in question (sometimes) and hopefully ends on a civil note.

    What, other pronouns?

    Such as "she," "it," and "thou?"

    Thou mayest have a problem, there.

  • darth_indy (unregistered)

    Apparently his bosses don't realize that referring to yourself (yourselves?) in the plural is a royal thing, therefore causing the opposite reaction they wanted. In other words, referring to us in the plural gives us a reason to act like bastards. Also we get an excuse to use "all your base are belong to us" in a less grammatically-incorrect way.

  • Borg collective (unregistered)

    That reminds me the Borg collective.

    WE are the Borg. Resistance is futile. WE wish to improve ourselves...

  • (cs)

    We are getting aggravated. Yes, we are.

  • Wayne (unregistered)

    Wow! What a Lumbergh moment.

  • I (unregistered)

    There is no F in team

    Sorry - I've been needing to say that all week.

  • Willllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll (unregistered) in reply to APH

    So the DBA should be checking the db logs in the development, testing, and production databases for long-running and inefficient queries, then letting the development team know if they spot a problem. If you separate the DBAs from the development team, so that they have different priorities, then make the development team jump through review hoops, you WILL impede development. Either the DBA is part of the team or the DBA is an advisor.

    We use an ORM for development speed, and only write specific queries when the ORM spits out a badly-performing query. We're quite tolerant of poor performance, as our application is relatively low volume and web based, and the main risk on our project is not delivering features.

  • Willllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll (unregistered) in reply to IAn
    IAn:
    Try: Every DBA worth his/her salt has every right to review your code. If your code breaks the database, or simply runs too slow - who gets the bite - right!

    Now that is bizarre.

    If I write code that runs slow it is my fault. If I'm too daft to ask the DBA for advice, how is that the DBA's fault?

    If the project process allows badly performing code through, that is the project manager's problem.

  • Willllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll (unregistered) in reply to Willllllllllllllllllllllllllllllll

    Sorry, we've not had a good day so far.

  • Mr Oli (unregistered) in reply to GregP

    Indeed it wont. A 'replace all' in the email to change all the 'I's to 'We's may introduce a myriad of spelling and grammatical errors.

  • Another bastard (unregistered)

    BOFH would be proud

  • A different Shawn O (unregistered)

    I've been admin'ing databases for some 15+ years now, and I can assure you that the success of any system implementation is the ability for DBA and developer to work together to provide the best in performance and efficiencies. There are many aspects of coding against databases that can produce unnecessary issues, if not reviewed beforehand or monitored afterward. It is, and always will be, the job of the DBA to ensure code is interacting properly with the database, and is responsible for notifying the development community of any inadequacies and/or issues. There are numerous tricks and shortcuts with Oracle SQL. If you have a good Oracle DBA, let him work with you on implementing best and bestest practices for coding against the database. I've always treated developers as my customers...it's always worked well for me. This guy is an obvious exception....not all of us DBA's are advocates of this type of admin'ing dictatorship.

  • anonymous (unregistered)

    We don't like Shawns. Indeed they seems to have behavioral problems.

  • IMAP (unregistered) in reply to GregP

    I don't know that "We" or "us" gets a better response. It's a weasel word: somebody made that decision, somebody implemented that policy, but it doesn't say who did so, and whether they had the authority to do so, and what you can do about it if you disagree with it.

    Some "We" in my company decided that all VARCHAR columns must be defined as CHAR to the maximum possible length. "We" is obviously wrong here, but "we" can't be reasoned with, because there is nobody identified as being part of that "we".

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