• (cs) in reply to GeneWitch

    On another note, i think alex has been doing this long enough that he knows to change the name of a city (especially since you guys found the padoga so fast)...

    I wouldn't be surprised if this is actually in whittier, California, off Colima Ave, in the multitude of underground bunkers that have been decommisioned out there.

    It could be anywhere really.

    I do like the fact that you guys found some underground bunker though. and if you really want the server IPs, how hard can it be to find out westlin's IP block and portscan them with fingerprinting to find the linksys/dlink/3com routers?

    I'm sure the owners and the texas branch FBI office would love to hear why someone in washington is portscanning a government network in texas because of a post on a website that was (named changed to protect the innocent)-ed. Anyhow... Concentrate on the stories, not the facts that have been changed to protect Jack (or whoever)

  • Yeah, right. (unregistered)

    If you look at Westin, you'll see -- there's a friggin' HUGE above-ground office building. (Like, HUGE. Corporate Headquartesr HUGE.) It's shaped like a Pagoda. It's hard to miss. No 'two small buildings and a 3-car parking lot' -- Westin has like a 300 car parking lot.

    UNLIKELY TO BE WESTIN. RTFA.

    There's also a small datacenter in the area run by Datatronics, Inc. -- Of Conroe, TX. Their website even says they have a biometric handprint scanner.

    Website: http://www.datatronicsinc.com/ .. click on Website Hosting.

    (Captcha: Darwin. Survival of the fittest datacenter.)

  • Mike Edwards (unregistered)

    There's an old nuclear bunker near here that a local ISP is using for secure web server locations. Here: http://www.hackgreen.co.uk/index.htm

    Although it's a signposted tourist "attraction" now, with tourist board signs in the local towns pointing to "Secret Nuclear Bunker".

  • Anon (unregistered)

    Wow what a lame and incredibly BS story! If you're going to make up sucj bullshit, at least give a WTF!!!!

    Fuck's sake!

    Captcha: dreadlocks.... I've seen this one before.

  • BruteForce (unregistered) in reply to s
    s:
    not really cool to fire people because they are sick. mentally ILL. It is an illness that is not any different than cancer, pneumonia, whatever.

    One difference is, cancer doesnt really affect your capability to do your work until in its later stages. And it sure doesnt decide to kill some guy thats annoying it by holding his coffe mug the wrong way.

    Mentally ill people tend to be a tad unreliable, as in throwing things at others, using physical force to get their will thru and all that wonderful stuff that SO improves worker morale.

  • Frymaster (unregistered) in reply to s
    s:
    not really cool to fire people because they are sick. mentally ILL. It is an illness that is not any different than cancer, pneumonia, whatever.

    Actually, he would be being fired for being incompetant. The fact that he doesn't respond to criticism due to mental issues would be irrelevant.

  • (cs) in reply to BruteForce
    BruteForce:
    s:
    not really cool to fire people because they are sick. mentally ILL. It is an illness that is not any different than cancer, pneumonia, whatever.

    One difference is, cancer doesnt really affect your capability to do your work until in its later stages. And it sure doesnt decide to kill some guy thats annoying it by holding his coffe mug the wrong way.

    Mentally ill people tend to be a tad unreliable, as in throwing things at others, using physical force to get their will thru and all that wonderful stuff that SO improves worker morale.

    Actually, you're wrong, and your ideaology on the matter is shared by a majority of americans. I am surrounded by people with "mental illness" and it doesn't mean that they are violent or agressive or anything, it doesn't LOGICALLY follow.

    Cancer can cause depression (due to the fact that you have to face your own mortality sooner) and depression can cause outbursts, emotional or physical at a workplace. so you're wrong there as well.

    Depression, Bi-polar, Autism... all of these are mental illnesses that don't regularly express themselves violently.

    Among thousands of other edge-diagnosis... Maybe schizophrenics might need impulse control medications, psychotics need anti-psychotics, etc.

    Just being mentally ill doesn't imply hostility or violence, moreso if they are being treated for the affliction.

    Just 2 cents from a graduate Psychology Student.

  • Anonymous Tart (unregistered) in reply to GeneWitch
    GeneWitch:
    BruteForce:
    s:
    not really cool to fire people because they are sick. mentally ILL. It is an illness that is not any different than cancer, pneumonia, whatever.

    One difference is, cancer doesnt really affect your capability to do your work until in its later stages. And it sure doesnt decide to kill some guy thats annoying it by holding his coffe mug the wrong way.

    Mentally ill people tend to be a tad unreliable, as in throwing things at others, using physical force to get their will thru and all that wonderful stuff that SO improves worker morale.

    Actually, you're wrong, and your ideaology on the matter is shared by a majority of americans. I am surrounded by people with "mental illness" and it doesn't mean that they are violent or agressive or anything, it doesn't LOGICALLY follow.

    Cancer can cause depression (due to the fact that you have to face your own mortality sooner) and depression can cause outbursts, emotional or physical at a workplace. so you're wrong there as well.

    Depression, Bi-polar, Autism... all of these are mental illnesses that don't regularly express themselves violently.

    Among thousands of other edge-diagnosis... Maybe schizophrenics might need impulse control medications, psychotics need anti-psychotics, etc.

    Just being mentally ill doesn't imply hostility or violence, moreso if they are being treated for the affliction.

    Just 2 cents from a graduate Psychology Student.

    TBH, I doubt most of the people here would care one way or another about the state of your mind. What they do care about is competency. The guy isnt 'rubbish' because he is mentally ill, he's rubbish and mentally ill.

    Thats a combo that doesnt work well with 'server room'.

  • (cs) in reply to GeneWitch
    GeneWitch:
    I am surrounded by people with "mental illness" and it doesn't mean that they are violent or agressive or anything, it doesn't LOGICALLY follow.
    So what? The majority of people with mental illnesses may not be incompetant, nor violent. So? That means you don't fire such persons. They are able to contribute, and so you reward them as you would anyone able to contribute.

    But if their illness interferes with their ability to contribute, then why should you be paying them for doing nothing, or worse, being destructive towards your goals? The fact that they are permanently ill is irrelevant, only the fact that they cannot adequetly perform their duties is relevant.

    Firing someone because they are mentally ill: Unacceptable. Firing someone because they cannot adequetly perform their duties: Acceptable.

    Their illness should not be factored into decisions at all. The only factor of illness is that upon developing symptoms they shall be given a grace period in which they maintain their job but are not required to perform their duties, in order to allow them to regain their health and return to their duties. If they are still unable to perform their duties by the end of that grace period, you have to replace them.

    Persons unable to perform any duties must be cared for, but that is not the job of an employer; that is the job of family members, governmental programs, and society in general.

  • Asd (unregistered) in reply to aoshi
    aoshi:
    being mentally ill usually means being useless at your job, especially when it`s about IT.
    Nope. You will find that it is quite common to find really good programmers that are mentally ill. The company I work for had a guy like that; after he was let go for harassing other staff members he was quickly snapped up by another company. I also have a relative that was basically allowed abuse the offer staff where she worked, because she was so valuable to the company (and she was really mental).

    I am not condoning this behaviour, but it is more common than you think.

  • Tim (unregistered) in reply to aoshi
    aoshi:
    actually, no. being mentally ill usually means being useless at your job, especially when it`s about IT.
    BruteForce:
    One difference is, cancer doesnt really affect your capability to do your work until in its later stages. And it sure doesnt decide to kill some guy thats annoying it by holding his coffe mug the wrong way.

    Mentally ill people tend to be a tad unreliable, as in throwing things at others, using physical force to get their will thru and all that wonderful stuff that SO improves worker morale.

    These are both inaccurate and unhelpful perceptions of people with mental illnesses.

    Yes, some mentally ill people are violent (but then, so are some people with no illness!), some mentally ill people are not able to work productively, and there are a couple of mental illnesses characterised by violence or lack of impulse control.

    However, these are minorities - the vast majority of mentally ill people are NOT violent, and many are able to be quite productive.

    I've suffered a mental illness for several years, and it has the side-effect of making me consistently late for work (a source of unreliability that frustrates me as much as it has my past and present employers). Despite that, I have continued to work in client-facing roles in IT, and past employers have recognised that my performance/productivity is still somewhat above average compared to my "normal" peers.

    Getting rid of people who are incapable of contributing anything useful is appropriate. But pre-judging all mentally ill people as being incapable or dangerous is both offensive and stupid. Most of us would much rather be productive members of the workforce than a drain on social security or the people around us.

  • dodgymofo (unregistered)

    what a load of tosh!!

  • z0idberg (unregistered)

    Well its either the Westlin bunker but a fair while ago prior to the big facility being built there or its a clever piece of misdirection in anonimising this story.

    *From the westlin pdf linked earlier you can see pics of the machine gun ports in the metal doors. *From the blog linked earlier looks to me like the Westlin facility is pretty new with lots of work done around the bunker itself, so quite possibly was jsut a couple of buildings in the recent past, particularly as they have been in and out of bankruptcy in the last couple of years (see investment page of their website) *Also on that page they state they have commercial and government customers. *Its just outside of Conroe in a foresty area.

    So either a very tricky red herring or thats them.

  • Troy McClure (unregistered) in reply to z0idberg

    I think its pretty safe to assume Jack Bauer is somehow involved in all this.

    Its not just some agency, its "the" agency

  • Hmmm (unregistered)
    guy we’ve hired to maintain our servers has some mental issues and doesn’t respond well to criticism or working on Saturdays

    In the goverment world...

    • Their setup could never get approval to operate.
    • Classified government networks do not have internet access.
    • Only people with security clearances have access to classified networks.
    • People with mental issues don't typically get security clearances.

    Sounds like bs to me.

  • Moo (unregistered) in reply to ssprencel
    ssprencel:
    I have worked at a few companies before where they wouldn't fire people. Instead they would "make their job miserable so that they would quit". [...]

    There comes a point when you have to cut loose the detrimental team members for the better of the team and replace them with a new and weak member in the hopes that they will get better. [...]

    Thankfully, in the Soviet UK, you can't simply make someone's job redundant until they quit; that's called constructive dismissal, and you can go to an industrial tribunal and win if a company attempts to pull this on you.

    Incidentally, I've known the above to happen to perfectly competent people, as well as those slightly, how shall we say, "lacking" :-)

  • dkf (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Wow what a lame and incredibly BS story! If you're going to make up sucj bullshit, at least give a WTF!!!!
    The WTF is putting all that effort into physically securing the server without also locking it down against network attacks. It speaks of a threat-model that is vastly out of touch with reality (and hence WTF-able)...
  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    In the bunker, no one can hear you scream....

  • Troy McClure (unregistered) in reply to Hmmm
    Hmmm:
    guy we’ve hired to maintain our servers has some mental issues and doesn’t respond well to criticism or working on Saturdays

    In the goverment world...

    • Their setup could never get approval to operate.
    • Classified government networks do not have internet access.
    • Only people with security clearances have access to classified networks.
    • People with mental issues don't typically get security clearances.

    Sounds like bs to me.

    Yea well the Government world also is bad at keeping on tabs on their assets. According to FBI auditors, they lost about 150 laptops and 150 weapons in a 44 month period. 10 of those computers contained highly sensitive information.

    My point? Maybe this story isn't true, but just because its a government agency doesnt make it secure by default.

  • (cs) in reply to SmashAndGrab
    SmashAndGrab:
    ssprencel:
    Router password: "admin".

    Dang, I had better go and change my router passwords...

    Dark Helmet: So the combination is one, two, three, four, five? That's the stupidest combination I've ever heard in my life! The kind of thing an idiot would have on his luggage!

    President Skroob: That’s amazing! I’ve got the same combination on my luggage!

  • G Money (unregistered)

    Jack Bauer?

    Captcha: wigwam -- about as secure as that setup

  • (cs) in reply to Patrick
    Patrick:
    I just wonder what goes through people's heads when they do such things?

    The wind.

  • BroadbandD (unregistered)

    I've had servers at the bunker prior to Katrina and Rita. The description in the story is definitely NOT the bunker. The roads are paved and it has a large parking lot and is in great shape. Down here in Houston we try and hide servers from the Hurricanes and Tornados, the bunker is a great place to do that.

    The pictures don't do the place justice, it's too cool heading down in the elevator to the colo areas....and yes it does have biometrics and some other security measures.

  • (cs) in reply to Hmmm
    Hmmm:
    In the goverment world...
    • Their setup could never get approval to operate.
    • Classified government networks do not have internet access.
    • Only people with security clearances have access to classified networks.
    • People with mental issues don't typically get security clearances.

    Sounds like bs to me.

    I do not see the words "classified" or "secret" anywhere in the article. For all we know this is the portal to something mundane, like the DoT, which they wanted to keep "secure."

  • Will (unregistered)

    If you loo at the westin website it has pictures of 2 facitlys in their banner a large white building which is probably the one every one is finding on Google that serves as both Office and Above Ground Data-center. then there is an artist rendering of a pagoda and bunker where the pictures on the site were taken an where the guy in this story went. also if you look at the roads near the white building there is a dirt road that goes off in to the woods.

  • aGould (unregistered)

    re: the mental illness

    The point everyone needs to remember is that he should get fired for incompetence (sounds like my home router has better security), but isn't because he's bullied his boss into submission.

    Moral: The best Job Security is making sure your boss is too scared of you to risk firing you.

  • Bill (unregistered) in reply to yerfatma
    yerfatma:
    Patrick:
    I just wonder what goes through people's heads when they do such things?

    The wind.

    Got my vote for post of the month......

  • JohnB (unregistered) in reply to Frymaster
    Frymaster:
    s:
    not really cool to fire people because they are sick. mentally ILL. It is an illness that is not any different than cancer, pneumonia, whatever.

    Actually, he would be being fired for being incompetant. The fact that he doesn't respond to criticism due to mental issues would be irrelevant.

    This issue has long intrigued me. Firing a person who is incompetent (please note the correct spelling) isn't getting rid of the problem; it's getting rid of a symptom of the problem. The problem isn't the employee who is being fired, it's the person who hired the employee in the first place.

  • Jerry (unregistered)

    I grew up in Conroe, TX - i'm pretty sure that's what they are talking about as well. As soon as I saw Conroe and I45 in the same sentence i was convinced.

    "I go to school in Houston, and have family in Huntsville, TX. I-45 goes through both, and Conroe is halfway in between. It's a decent sized town with a number of malls and an outlet center. It has Rte. 105 running through it (east-west). Montgomery, TX is west of Conroe about 15 miles on 105. Westlin Corp gives their address in Montgomery, TX, so I'd say this is a definite hit.

    • Mike "
  • JMH (unregistered) in reply to s

    Well, he could get fired because he didnt' do a good job not because of his illness. Anyway, do you really want him to maintain the server to keep all your bank, personal information?

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered)

    Yup it's Westlin... actually in Montgomery, TX and facilitated by Grayhat Research. Been in it myself :-D Quite Impressive actually.

    http://www.grayhatresearch.com/managed/default.htm

  • Ashkelon (unregistered) in reply to GeneWitch

    "Depression, Bi-polar, Autism... all of these are mental illnesses that don't regularly express themselves violently."

    Autism is not a mental illness (it's a neurobiological disorder). Not that mental illness of various flavors can't be co-morbid with autism spectrum disorders...

    I'm delighted you are NOT my doctor... I've Asperger's Syndrome, and spent years fending off doctors who can't tell flat affect from depression.

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to Yeah, right.

    No, it's Westlin. trust me. There are two small buildings (yes they look like pagodas) opposite each other in the back corners of the open grass field. This field use to actually be a pond. The 3 car parking lot is in the back near the entrance. The "big" parking lot is actually for the main Westlin building... which is not physically connected to the underground bunker. In addition to the other things mentioned in the article, the bunker has two separate levels, air filtration, self contained power and water, jail cells, hospital, cafeteria, barracks, and conjugal rooms!! The history of the bunker and why it was put in is really kinda cool. Grayhat Research did a good job turning it into a nice secure data facility.

  • (cs)

    It does seem like this facility is the one near Conroe, TX. In addition to being about 45 minutes from Houston, it is also about 45 minutes from College Station, home of Texas A&M University and many state agencies and a few federal agencies.

    Many of those agencies curse the use of a system called "The Portal" (not the official name -- it's homegrown) which is horribly, horribly bad and often broken.

    If you complain that "The Portal" doesn't work, you are told you need more training because you clearly do not know how to use it. Requests for features are met with "Sure, we can do that", and then promptly ignored for all eternity.

    One group that uses "The Portal" is http://tees.tamu.edu/

    Its website was recently overhauled. The big update, which crashed "The Portal" more than once, occurred on Christmas day. The staff must have spent the whole Christmas day figuring out what broke it.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Ashkelon
    Ashkelon:
    "Depression, Bi-polar, Autism... all of these are mental illnesses that don't regularly express themselves violently."

    Autism is not a mental illness (it's a neurobiological disorder). Not that mental illness of various flavors can't be co-morbid with autism spectrum disorders...

    I'm delighted you are NOT my doctor... I've Asperger's Syndrome, and spent years fending off doctors who can't tell flat affect from depression.

    Never mind that I can't conceive of an autistic person caring enough (or even noticing) other people to get a job with computers.

    Yeah, Asperger's is a bit different - AFAIK, its main effect on job performance is awkward social situations.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Ashkelon
    Ashkelon:
    "Depression, Bi-polar, Autism... all of these are mental illnesses that don't regularly express themselves violently."

    Autism is not a mental illness (it's a neurobiological disorder). Not that mental illness of various flavors can't be co-morbid with autism spectrum disorders...

    I'm delighted you are NOT my doctor... I've Asperger's Syndrome, and spent years fending off doctors who can't tell flat affect from depression.

    Never mind that I can't conceive of an autistic person caring enough (or even noticing) other people to get a job with computers.

    Yeah, Asperger's is a bit different - AFAIK, its main effect on job performance is awkward social situations.

  • anony-mouse (unregistered)

    somehow i doubt it.

  • BroadbandD (unregistered) in reply to Ravioli-Z

    Actually Grayhat hasn't been out there in about a year. A big insurance company has their suite now.

  • DAve (unregistered) in reply to finnn
    finnn:
    I've worked with a guy who'd kick you in the nuts for leaving that kind of a hole open... Or smack you with an extension cord for something less critical.
    I used to work with someone like that. He's currently in prison doing three years for assault and battery on another former employee.
  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to BroadbandD

    Regardless of where they are officed at now, the secure data center still exists in that bunker and that's the one the article refers to.

  • (cs) in reply to anontexan
    anontexan:
    The whole forest, unpaved roads, etc. bit sounds very much like the Conroe that is just north of Houston (which has no small amount of tech activity, and yes no small amount of really stupid tech activity). Now I'm wondering where this bunker data center is if it is here in Texas and what they charge...

    Dues to the use of the word "forest" I took it to be some place in Europe. I don't know too many US citizens who say forest. Forest makes me think of Europe for some reason. Deep dark forests, full of unicorns, and witches.

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to Jerim

    Yeah you didn't know half of Harry Potter was filmed in Texas??? We have witches and goblins all over these parts! The Brits taught us how to say forest instead of "the woods".

  • (cs) in reply to cdb
    cdb:
    Firing people just because they're ill isn't ok, but when they're illness causes them to throw a keyboard at someone's head then no problem.

    I'm looking at leaving my current job because upper management are too fucking afraid of confrontation to fire obviously incompetent members of staff who only hinder other people's work and cost the company money. Hell, they won't even fire people for flat out refusing to do their jobs.

    Sooo, take another job, and periodically send your old boss an email refusing to do the work. Two paychecks! Cha-ching!!!

  • (cs) in reply to snoofle

    You are standing at the end of a road before a small brick building. Around you is a forest. A small stream flows out of the building and down a gully.

    ?> enter building

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to snoofle

    That's not something you can enter.

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to Ravioli-Z

    ?>

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to Ravioli-Z

    ?>

  • Ravioli-Z (unregistered) in reply to Ravioli-Z

    ?>in

    INSIDE BUILDING You are inside a building, a well house for a large spring.

    There are some keys on the ground here.

    There is tasty food here.

    There is a shiny brass lamp nearby.

    there is an empty bottle here.

    ?>

  • (cs)
    Whomever set up the servers...
    Incorrect usage of "whomever", it should be "whoever". :) "The person" is the subject of the sentence, whereas "the servers" is the object. If you're gonna go out of your way to use "whom", at least get it right :) (Yes, I'm a grammar nazi.)
  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Samah
    Samah:
    Whomever set up the servers...
    Incorrect usage of "whomever", it should be "whoever". :) "The person" is the subject of the sentence, whereas "the servers" is the object. If you're gonna go out of your way to use "whom", at least get it right :) (Yes, I'm a grammar nazi.)

    Quick way to pick the right word: change

    Whomever set up the servers...
    to
    Him set up the servers...

    and see if it makes sense.

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