The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

tSQL · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
tSQL:

it is kind of a Yawn .. of a wtf. Now, seeing a COBAL version of a webpage, now that would be down right neato! Do we have a screen shot please?

To your pleasure : ASP.NET Cobol

so sweet, thanks for the link.

BlackTigerX · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

and I was just telling Ben about that

http://www.ben-rush.net/blog/PermaLink,guid,8e623a1c-17a2-46c3-a1a3-e38675f8f190.aspx

I quote my self

"...we are migrating a generation that got to work on punch cards, assembler, C, C++, up to C#, those are (for the most part) the people that strougle, those are the same people that won't accept that a 15-20 (or younger that them for that matter) can kick their old butts

I think as new generations come in we'll do better moving on with technology"

BlackTigerX · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Probably not fair to blame .NET for this, even though .NET's hardly my favorite environment.

who's blaming .NET?

this is just a stupid "I know it all" programmer using .NET

WTF Batman · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

A Wizard A True Star:
I think I know where this guy is working now:

http://www.inetonsite.com/onsite/default.asp?ADMIN=False

Hah! It actually works! If you change the False to True, and click on a link, you get an 'Exit Administrative Function' button (or something to that effect).

Wild. I'm gonna start a consulting company and look for web sites like this, point out the issue, and become their IT department.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

The scary thing is I am actually programming in MicroFocus COBOL as we speak!!!! And even worse I had to look up the syntax for the UNSTRING verb. Ya gotta love legacy code!

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Hell yes! Amen, brother!

I often swear aloud when I read those posts...

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

<pullinghair>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</pullinghair>

No one cares what you think.

Sincerely,

Me

me too, I so don't care

Yours,

not caringly

Maht

Gene Wirchenko · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Gene Wirchenko:
Zlodo:
I'm myself more annoyed by the gratuitous (and so thoroughly argumented) drive-by trolling like "Or C, as in C++."

It is not trolling but historical fact. The first C++ was implemented as a front-end to a C++ compiler. Look up "cfront".

Oops. Make that "as a front-end to a C compiler."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

hash · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Gene Wirchenko:
Gene Wirchenko:
Zlodo:
I'm myself more annoyed by the gratuitous (and so thoroughly argumented) drive-by trolling like "Or C, as in C++."

It is not trolling but historical fact. The first C++ was implemented as a front-end to a C++ compiler. Look up "cfront".

Oops. Make that "as a front-end to a C compiler."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

arrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Gene Wirchenko · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

OneFactor:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:
Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.

I used to get annoyed with Gene's signature, but then people started whining. But now I find people overreacting to the sig quite entertaining. The irony in people getting so overworked about a sig on a forum called the daily WTF far outweighs my dim memories of being annoyed at Gene's sig.

Actually, the true irony is those who whine about how redundant me signing my name is. There have been a number of these, and, well, more than one is redundant. <BEG>

Is it just me or are the comments on this forum often more of a WTF than the original post?

The latter, but I read because of the other comments, the ones that contribute to the field.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Zlodo:
Gene Wirchenko:
Zlodo:
I'm myself more annoyed by the gratuitous (and so thoroughly argumented) drive-by trolling like "Or C, as in C++."

It is not trolling but historical fact. The first C++ was implemented as a front-end to a C++ compiler. Look up "cfront".

I know that. The creator of C++ chose to do it this way so that he wouldn't have to reinvent all the code generation that was already done by the C compiler.

the other guys at Bell Labs where Bjarne Stroustrup wrote C++ were not that impressed, AFAIK not one of them even bothered to go with C++

Consider that those guys were Denis Ritchie, Ken Thompson and Rob Pike.

Rob Pike Wrote :

when ken and i described the new features we were proposing for plan 9 C,
including inherited structure elements, to bjarne stroustrup, he said, "if you
want C++ you know where to find it." and stormed from the room.

i don't think he understood exactly why we were proposing these features.

-rob

http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2004-May/035588.html

ammoQ · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

BlackTigerX:
I quote my self

"...we are migrating a generation that got to work on punch cards, assembler, C, C++, up to C#, those are (for the most part) the people that strougle, those are the same people that won't accept that a 15-20 (or younger that them for that matter) can kick their old butts

I think as new generations come in we'll do better moving on with technology"

There is at least a whole generation between punch cards and C++. So you are migrating three generations up to C#. Anyway, the whole idea of a generation conflict is IMO lame. Face it: Those fancy languages like C# were developed by rather old people.
They offer little in terms of new concepts compared to 10+ year old languages like Delphi or C++, not to mention Smalltalk, Eiffel etc. If an (say) 45 years old programmer knows nothing but COBOL, he is probably a lamer (or has a live and doesn't care about us 1337 guys). But that's not a question of age. He was a lamer 10 years ago, he was a lamer 20 years ago.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

COBOL.NET? Shouldn't that be 'ADD 1 TO COBOL GIVING COBOL'?

Redundantly yours, Jon

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Gene Wirchenko:
Gene Wirchenko:
Zlodo:
I'm myself more annoyed by the gratuitous (and so thoroughly argumented) drive-by trolling like "Or C, as in C++."

It is not trolling but historical fact. The first C++ was implemented as a front-end to a C++ compiler. Look up "cfront".

Oops. Make that "as a front-end to a C compiler."

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Boyd Roberts
Thu, 26 Apr 2001 05:10:38 +0200

cfront was kinda a nice toy 'round '85.

C++ is right up there with collosal disasters.

http://lists.cse.psu.edu/archives/9fans/2001-April/010813.html

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Anonymous:

What kind of Web Developer would dream of using IE?

One with a clue? One who actually acknowledges that over 90% over web users use IE? One who realises that IE has enough failures to comply with standards that it needs to be specifically catered for? One who isn't some kind of bigotted, anti-MS, open source weenie? Take your pick.

Anonymous:

That said just curious, for all the Developers on this forum, except for those doing IE-only .ActiveXXXNet stuff, what Browser do you use?

There's only one good answer to this: "as many as possible".

I don't think that was the original point. The point was who "develops" in IE when there's no debugging etc. Sure it has to work eventually in IE, but surely everyone who's developing for the Web gets everything working on say Firefox with the Web Developer extension and *then* makes it work in IE. It's a hell of a lot easier doing it that way round too since you code to standards and then hack for IE.

FrostCat · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

hash:
Gene Wirchenko:

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

<PULLINGHAIR>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</PULLINGHAIR>

Nothing useful to complain about today, eh?

FrostCat · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
I think the real WTF here, is most obvious from the screen shot.

What kind of Web Developer would dream of using IE? That's just nuts! An outdated Mozilla build? ok, a Firefox 1.0 build? yeah, ok, even an Opera Install would have shown some apptitude for the task, but IE... yeah, only if you don't want to debug your applications, or build something Web 2.0.

That said just curious, for all the Developers on this forum, except for those doing IE-only .ActiveXXXNet stuff, what Browser do you use? Anyone already shaking their heads at the Beta2 of IE7 (oh man that's a LOOOOOONG way from a stable, public release)

Elf 17

I think the real, real WTF here is someone using the phrase "Web 2.0".

Sincerely,

FrostCat

This post not [pi] approved.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

I agree with you about 50%. I wrote my first web applications in Perl, then PHP, Python and now landed with Rails. And of course it's much better and comfortable, and you get things done a lot quicker.

But on the other hand, your Computer doesn't speak a high level language, and someone has to implement all those layers deep down under you. Or sometimes speed just counts. Or you implement some virtual hardware for some virtual machine, and these are things C and C++ were made for.

So it's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job!

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

BlackTigerX:
and I was just telling Ben about that

http://www.ben-rush.net/blog/PermaLink,guid,8e623a1c-17a2-46c3-a1a3-e38675f8f190.aspx

I quote my self

"...we are migrating a generation that got to work on punch cards, assembler, C, C++, up to C#, those are (for the most part) the people that strougle, those are the same people that won't accept that a 15-20 (or younger that them for that matter) can kick their old butts

I think as new generations come in we'll do better moving on with technology"

It was of course you that i answered to...

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Anonymous:
Anonymous:

What kind of Web Developer would dream of using IE?

One with a clue? One who actually acknowledges that over 90% over web users use IE? One who realises that IE has enough failures to comply with standards that it needs to be specifically catered for? One who isn't some kind of bigotted, anti-MS, open source weenie? Take your pick.

Anonymous:

That said just curious, for all the Developers on this forum, except for those doing IE-only .ActiveXXXNet stuff, what Browser do you use?

There's only one good answer to this: "as many as possible".

I don't think that was the original point. The point was who "develops" in IE when there's no debugging etc. Sure it has to work eventually in IE, but surely everyone who's developing for the Web gets everything working on say Firefox with the Web Developer extension and *then* makes it work in IE. It's a hell of a lot easier doing it that way round too since you code to standards and then hack for IE.

That reminds me of a friend who says "Standards? I never have time for them. They're just suggestions anyways. When the code doesn't look good in IE, I just get a bigger hammer to finish the job".
It felt like that day when someone told me Santa wasn't for real.

sao · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
R.Flowers:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

<pullinghair>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</pullinghair>

You are letting his signature get to you, and I know that feeling - it's just like an itch that you try to ignore until finally you claw your eyes out. But seriously, I don't think anyone thought about it until you started bringing it up every time! No offense, but the problem is you...

Some forum software allows the user to block sigs and avatars in their personal views. Of course with this software, we cry tears of joy when it actually gets some code right, or inserts a picture...

But it's not a signature... You'll notice there is no short horizontal line above it. Anyway, it has been discussed many times at great length, and most of us tend to just ignore it.

and others of us embrace it.

Sincerly,

Sao.

masklinn · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

BlackTigerX:
and I was just telling Ben about that

http://www.ben-rush.net/blog/PermaLink,guid,8e623a1c-17a2-46c3-a1a3-e38675f8f190.aspx

I quote my self

"...we are migrating a generation that got to work on punch cards, assembler, C, C++, up to C#, those are (for the most part) the people that strougle, those are the same people that won't accept that a 15-20 (or younger that them for that matter) can kick their old butts

I think as new generations come in we'll do better moving on with technology"

And you still won't manage to move the Lisp guys, nor won't you manage to kick any of their collective asses.

Remember guys, everything that's been done in CS in the past 40 years has been trying to catch up with Lisp with a more readable syntax for the beginner.

Anonymous:
I agree with you about 50%. I wrote my first web applications in Perl, then PHP, Python and now landed with Rails. And of course it's much better and comfortable, and you get things done a lot quicker.
But on the other hand, your Computer doesn't speak a high level language, and someone has to implement all those layers deep down under you. Or sometimes speed just counts. Or you implement some virtual hardware for some virtual machine, and these are things C and C++ were made for.

So it's a matter of choosing the right tool for the job!

AFAIK that's surely not what C++ was made for.

And for the high level language thing, well, I have two words. Lisp Machines.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

ammoQ:
WTF Batman:
ammoQ:
He should have scrambled it.

http://www.initech-foundation.org/support/giving.aspx?NO_DEGGOL=ON

;-)

Or, for SUPER DUPER high security, Rot-13 is your friend:

http://www.initech-foundation.org/support/giving.aspx?YBTTRQ_BA=BA

This looks like Klingon :-))

tlhIngan Hol rurbe'chu', 'ej veQvam 'oghbe'ba' tlhIngan ghunwI'. QIpqu'ba'chugh tlhIngan ghunwI' 'ej veQvam rurbogh veQ ngIm lIngchugh, ghaytan SIbI' muHlu'.

(... Universal translator engaged) It's not Klingon, and a Klingon programmer obviously didn't create this garbage. If a Klingon programmer is that obviously stupid and produces putrid trash like this, he will likely be executed immediately.

ammoQ · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:

tlhIngan Hol rurbe'chu', 'ej veQvam 'oghbe'ba' tlhIngan ghunwI'. QIpqu'ba'chugh tlhIngan ghunwI' 'ej veQvam rurbogh veQ ngIm lIngchugh, ghaytan SIbI' muHlu'.

(... Universal translator engaged) It's not Klingon, and a Klingon programmer obviously didn't create this garbage. If a Klingon programmer is that obviously stupid and produces putrid trash like this, he will likely be executed immediately.

Obviously a fake. Real Klingons would not execute him immediately, since he would be tortured for days before eventually being executed.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

OneFactor:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:
Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.

I used to get annoyed with Gene's signature, but then people started whining. But now I find people overreacting to the sig quite entertaining. The irony in people getting so overworked about a sig on a forum called the daily WTF far outweighs my dim memories of being annoyed at Gene's sig.

I've developed "Gene Wirchenko blindness". Very similar to banner blindness in most regards.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

WTF Batman:
A Wizard A True Star:
I think I know where this guy is working now:

http://www.inetonsite.com/onsite/default.asp?ADMIN=False

Hah! It actually works! If you change the False to True, and click on a link, you get an 'Exit Administrative Function' button (or something to that effect).

Wild. I'm gonna start a consulting company and look for web sites like this, point out the issue, and become their IT department.

You can actually go deeper than that. Go to the website, click a company with cameras, like Dearden, and click a camera. You will be prompted for a password. Go back to the main page, change ADMIN=false to "true" and click on Dearden and click on a camera. It will then bypass the password and present you with a camera viewer. Is this bad security or what? For a serveillance company (I think), it certainly has poor online security.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Stop sniggering here.. but I've just spent 3 years coding Delta. The security problem is (so far as I can see): He's expecting to be able to make a call to RACF for security.. and he hasn't bothered looking up security methods in .NET.

The posts above said that this was laziness or the guy is incompetent. I'd agree. It doesn't matter what platform you are on.. if you want security then you link into the correct security module. Meh.

BTW: People use COBOL to generate web pages. Big government health organisations lead the way in this.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Let me try again...

"Hah! It actually works! If you change the False to True, and click on a link, you get an 'Exit Administrative Function' button (or something to that effect). Wild. I'm gonna start a consulting company and look for web sites like this, point out the issue, and become their IT department."

You can actually go deeper than that. Go to the website, click a company with cameras, like Dearden, and click a camera. You will be prompted for a password. Go back to the main page, change ADMIN=false to "true" and click on Dearden and click on a camera. It will then bypass the password and present you with a camera viewer. Is this bad security or what? For a serveillance company (I think), it certainly has poor online security.

Gene Wirchenko · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

BlackTigerX:
and I was just telling Ben about that
http://www.ben-rush.net/blog/PermaLink,guid,8e623a1c-17a2-46c3-a1a3-e38675f8f190.aspx

I quote my self

"...we are migrating a generation that got to work on punch cards, assembler, C, C++, up to C#, those are (for the most part) the people that strougle, those are the same people that won't accept that a 15-20 (or younger that them for that matter) can kick their old butts

I think as new generations come in we'll do better moving on with technology"

OTOH, when I finally got around to getting my formal credentials, a number of my classmates (20-25 years younger than me) could not handle that I could program circles around most of them. I had only been doing it about since they were born.

Each generation has its share of the good and the bad.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Gene Wirchenko · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
OneFactor:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:
Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.

I used to get annoyed with Gene's signature, but then people started whining. But now I find people overreacting to the sig quite entertaining. The irony in people getting so overworked about a sig on a forum called the daily WTF far outweighs my dim memories of being annoyed at Gene's sig.

I've developed "Gene Wirchenko blindness". Very similar to banner blindness in most regards.

Are you stressed out and unable to copy with how this post is going to end? See MIKE today for consulting on how to get past your big problem. Then, in a more relaxed frame of mind, maybe, you can do something for the smaller problems: AIDS, world hunger, etc.

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Strydyr · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Before I could say how big of a WTF this is, I'd want to know:

Did he hard-code this URL? Or, does he just not know the difference between the POST and GET methods for forms?

ammoQ · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Zos:

BTW: People use COBOL to generate web pages. Big government health organisations lead the way in this.

I'm sure they do it in a more elegant manner than ASP.net COBOL. The usual way to do that is to write a normal (e.g. CICS) application and use an other (more adequate) language for the web frontend.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Be very afraid:

http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:loggedin%3Dfalse
http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:admin%3Dfalse

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

> And yes, Gene Wirchenko, everyone hates you.

That's weird, I think he's kinda funny.

Warmest regards,
Seth

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Hell yes! Amen, brother!

I often swear aloud when I read those posts...

It should be called The Daily Jesus Christ.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

hash:
Gene Wirchenko:
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<pullinghair>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</pullinghair>

You're not alone.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:
Sincerely,
Gene Wirchenko
<pullinghair>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</pullinghair>

You're not alone.

10 hours later hash was found murdered in front of his computer. Police are tracing witnesses' IP addresses but have not ruled out the possibility that a snuff video was being filmed.

Jokingly,

Starfish
*peers behind shoulder*

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Jeff S:
Doobie Dan:
I think it's more of a psychological deterrence in that any hacker would see that and think... "wait, this must be a trap!"
And yes, Gene Wirchenko, everyone hates you.

Ah ... but we all know his name and we all will probably remember it the rest of our lives!

Reminds me of the Simpsons, and how Mr. Burns can never remember Homer's name or who he is ... perhaps Gene had a similiar situation in the past, where he never got credit for his work or ideas?

Considreing the number of comments this Gene Wacko posts a day, I don't think he gets any work done at all. Hence the non recognized effort and the need to put his name everywhere...

John

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

A Wizard A True Star:
I think I know where this guy is working now:

http://www.inetonsite.com/onsite/default.asp?ADMIN=False

His asp skills haven't improved much http://thedailywtf.com/forums/58819/ShowPost.aspx?MODERATOR_MODE=ON

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Be very afraid:

http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:loggedin%3Dfalse
http://www.google.com/search?q=inurl:admin%3Dfalse

Aaah the power of google... This is great.

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

It is not trolling but historical fact. The first C++ was implemented as a front-end to a C++ compiler. Look up "cfront".

That's some feat. No wonder Stroustup's considered a god.

BiggBru · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

It's the perfect example of OCD meeting OOP, resulting in a WTF.

BiggBru · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

hash:
Gene Wirchenko:

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

<PULLINGHAIR>
Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</PULLINGHAIR>

My post above is a reply to this quote. Try to mentally cut and paste the text in this area.

What is the time limit on the Edit feature? .000002 ns?

Free · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Gene Wirchenko:

The latter, but I read because of the other comments, the ones that contribute to the field.
Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

Yes, the wtf and flames are funny, but sometimes there are very good comments

I found the your sig odd at first, but somehow its funny.
I keep forgeting it's the person posting and think "Who The F is Gene Wirchenko?

Sincerely

Free as in Beer

Free · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Where do people get this idea that there is no debugging in IE?

If you have Visual Studio from v6 to now, you have a great debugger, if not you still have the basic tool.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?url=/library/en-us/sdbug/Html/sdbug_1.asp

I've tried Firefox and it has good debugging plug-in too, but not that would make me switch debuggers

RobIII · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

I must admit Gene gets on my nerves too sometimes... But I must also admit that at least he's consequent.

Otac0n · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

I think that Mr. Wirchenko has his signature PERMANENTLY FUSED to his Windows clipboard.

All he has to do is CTRL-V and his sig poops into the text box.

Rank Amateur · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
hash:
Gene Wirchenko:

Sincerely,

Gene Wirchenko

<PULLINGHAIR>Can you PLEASE stop ending every post like that?! It annoys the crap out of me everytime I read one of your posts, I doubt i'm alone.
</PULLINGHAIR>

You're not alone.

Now, doggonit, I've been signing the end of my posts since before I joined this forum. Why aren't I annoying anyone?

--Rank

swthomas55 · 2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Anonymous:

What kind of Web Developer would dream of using IE?

One with a clue? One who actually acknowledges that over 90% over web users use IE?

Real data from real users on a real website: In January, 2006 (97.5M hits), we saw these percentages:
Firefox 11.8%
MSIE 78.2%
Netscape 2.6%
Safari 4.6%
Other (AOL, Web spiders, etc) 3.8%

MSIE percentages are slowly but surely dropping... (January 2005 MSIE was 83.3% of 69.4M hits, January 2004 MSIE was 88% of 45M hits)

So, at least in our user community, it hasn't been close to 90% in 2 years. Granted, our users are mostly academics, so that might "bias" the results, but those are the results I've got.

(Dare I say it? Sure...)
Sincerely,

Spencer

2006-02-02 Reply Admin

Man, that was one huge WTF.

XOXOXO,

awefwaeffewaewaf

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