• linepro (unregistered) in reply to Smash King

    Club them to death with the revolver....

  • Paul Kinlan (unregistered)

    The question about building a bike for a blind man made me think of the one I heard about on the "interview question" websites.

    How would you sell ice to an Eskimo?

    WTF, Why would I be so amoral to do that!!!

  • linepro (unregistered) in reply to Berislav

    Push 10 into the ravine as he is obviously too lardy and consequently likely to break the bridge.

    Tell 5 to use 10's corpse as a trampoline to cross.

    Saunter across with 2.

  • Prof AntiQuercus (unregistered) in reply to Code Dependent

    I think this question is designed to detect sexist biases. Anyone who doesn't immediately correct the term to "man-or-woman-hole" should be immediately excluded.

  • Peets (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    Go eco on them and say you couldn't possibly do this without replacing the bulbs with LEDs or fluorescents. This will wholly flummox the average HR rep because they expect YOU to sweat and think, not to get the ball bounced back.

    If you decide the job isn't worth the hassle during the interview you might as well have some fun (evil grin - this is a job hazard anyway when interviewing security specialists :-)

  • (cs)

    OK 2 things here:

    1. What kind of world is it where I move 10 times faster than one of the other members of the group??! That's just not realistic. No-one moves that slowly.
    2. My favourite "expected answer vs good answer" story: http://www.dvo.com/newsletter/monthly/2004/november/jest2.html
  • itsmo (unregistered) in reply to uptaphunk
    uptaphunk:
    Franz Kafka:
    uptaphunk:
    I see a lot of people fiddling with semantics to these questions but what the important aspect of the question in the first place is the reaction the interviewee has to the problem - not necessarily the correct or "best" answer (if there is one).

    Someone who explodes and leaves the room flipping you or someone who starts hyperventilating and pulling their hair out is precisely the type of person you DO NOT want working for you.

    Or, more to the point, they are the type of person that doesn't want to work for you.

    Yes, I suppose so - but it serves as a quick indicator to someones mental state in times of stress.

    I seriously doubt that you would want someone who cannot handle a (possibly) unsolvable problem with acts of aggression and/or being on the verge of nervous breakdown would you?

    So rage, despair and compliance is the expected range of reactions to your silly questions? Maybe it would be more appropriate for the interviewee to register exasperation and annoyance that someone he/she doesn't even work for yet thinks it's a good idea to shove staff (or potential staff) around just because he can. If you need to test someone out to see if they can deal with (possibly) unsolvable problem(s), then your business must run into these regularly - so maybe there's something wrong with the way you run your business.

  • Channel6 (unregistered) in reply to Tom
    Tom:
    I've been at MS since '95, a manager for most of that time. In my experience it was around 2000 that recruiting started assertively discouraging us from asking brainteasers. If you're still getting those in an MS interview then your interviewer is an old-timer who thinks they're too cool to try new things, or else a youngster who was taught by such an old-timer. The only dated examples I see in the comments above are from 1990 and 2001 so hopefully those interviewers are either no longer here or have figured out a better way to interview.

    Out of curiousity, did recruiting give a reason why they didn't want brainteasers being asked?

  • itsmo (unregistered) in reply to Dave G.
    Dave G.:
    Philo:
    Someone who looks at what they perceive to be too hard yet "trivial" for them to bother and walks away - probably not someone you want on your team. You've assigned them a problem, they have to solve it.

    Uh, no. They don't work for you yet. They don't have to solve it.

    The idea that you assigning them some bullshit abstract problem and seeing how they react would give you any indication at all as to how they would react when a real problem with real meaning and a real business case behind it came along is absolutely laughable. You are deluded beyond help if you think there is any correlation whatsoever.

    "How much does a 747 weigh?" is a good question if you're hiring someone to work with undocumented legacy code. If they refuse to think about it and just want to look up the answer, they're the wrong person for the job.

    This is the same mistake again. You're drawing correlations between a stupid, abstract problem and a real situation with real constraints and requirements.

    In the real world, if an employee has to maintain a legacy system, the first thing they will ask is "where is the documentation"? This is a normal thing to ask. One would hope that legacy systems are documented at least to some extent somewhere. The documentation may not exist, but they will ask for it just in case it might.

    It is not stupid to ask for documentation, because if the documentation does exist, it will allow them to learn the system much more quickly.

    Now when suggesting solutions for this test situation, the first thing they will do is... surprise, say they will look it up in the documentation.

    Therefore, if your stupid test fails them because they, as they would in a real situation, say they will look it up in the documentation - a perfectly normal and correct thing to do - you've really proved sweet fuck all, haven't you?

    These tests are just a way for managers to make themselves feel smug and superior to applicants. "Haha, I know the answer... do you? Do you? Well I do. I'm smart. And I'm going to enjoy watching you fumble about while I sit here basking in the glow of my own smug sense of self-satisfaction. I'm the boss here, and don't you forget it kiddo."

    Not the sort of idiot I want to be working for.

    Too f*ckin right. It may be the case that sometimes a manager/boss has to push people around to 'get the job done', but far too many of these guys think it is part of the job description and that they are required to push people around (or just do it because they can).

  • John WTF Smith (unregistered) in reply to B92

    The biggest disservice that I could perform in an interview is ask "What are your biggest strenths and what is your biggest weakness?" Completely useless.[/quote]

    Giving smart-ass answers to questions like that

  • Richie (unregistered) in reply to eric76

    Actually there are other shapes that will work....

  • Hans (unregistered) in reply to Krenn
    Krenn:
    One final interview question that I've never actually heard: "If you were a Jedi living here on earth, what kind of job would you get?" Might be interesting, though I'm sure most people wouldn't be completely honest. Still, it would be a more fun question than answering the same riddles about prisoners and light switches, pirates and treasure, or whatever...

    "Well, Jedi fight for justice, so I'd look for the largest conflict around and stick it to the agressor. I'd probably be fighting in Iraq against the Americans right now."

  • (cs) in reply to Nicholas Ray
    Nicholas Ray:
    Rather then dumping it in a lake.

    Wait... The 'proper' answer is to dump it in a lake??? That's no good. When it sinks, all it tells you is the volume of the 747, not the weight (and even that's assuming you have some way to measure the displacement, which is non-trivial unless you have a purpose-built water container that's big enough for a 747 - in which case why not use scales?). It has to float for it to tell you the weight. Did the question state that the plane was closed up and sealed to be watertight?

    The proper way is either to look at the weight & balance sheet for the plane, or put it on some scales.

  • ath (unregistered) in reply to Joe

    Stupid people! You're assuming each switch is directly connected to a single lightbulb! There are 8 possible switch states which may create any of 8 possible light bulb states, i.e. 64 possible maps f: switch-states -> light-bulb-states.

    That's exactly the kind of narrowminded thinking I don't want in my company.

  • (cs) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    El Spotto: "What would you use 'cut' for?" Me: "Nothing."
    Matt C. answered that question three weeks ago.

    http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/A-Thank-You--Out-of-Place-Pics.aspx#212299

  • sirGustav (unregistered)
    Would you want to work with the guy who builds a water-displacement scale/barge, taxis a 747 to the docks, and then weights the jumbo jet using that, instead of simply calling Boeing in the first place?
    Would you want with with a guy who takes your flashlight, calls you a big slow fatty and leaves you and that other slow and fatty guy to die?
  • David Arno (unregistered) in reply to Berislav
    Berislav:
    This one is actually quite simple:
    • 1 and 2 go across.
    • 1 returns with the flashlight.
    • 5 and 10 go across.
    • 2 returns.
    • 1 and 2 go across.

    For a total of 18 minutes.

    Your solution might provide the fastest solution, but it isn't simple.

    • 1 goes across with the others in turn

    is a far simpler solution, and still only takes 19 minutes.

    Simple solutions - unless they result in a huge resource/ time penalty - are inevitably the best solutions. And the best solution is always the right solution.

  • Gary Williams (unregistered)

    What do you do when someone answers the Boeing question correctly? There are a few ones of doing it:

    1. Weigh the components
    2. Use three digital scales for the main gear and nose gear (one scale on each) and work out the weight for that.

    or (the easy way)

    1. Pick up the Zero-Fuel weight from the Master load sheet presented to the Captain before flight and the subtract the weight of the baggage using the industry accepted weight for each item of baggage (this is how it works!).

    Oh, I don't program. I'm a sysadmin.

  • (cs) in reply to Ville
    Ville:
    Ren:
    Then I'd have to ask for their legal counsel since after 9/11 Boeing hasn't released their airplane details in anywhere remotely public. In fact, they might be completely secret now.
    You are so right, but Google still knows about Boeings super secret website..

    http://www.boeing.com/commercial/747family/pf/pf_400_prod.html

    Or if you don't want to Google it, you could just go to www.boeing.com, select Commercial airplanes, Products, 747, Technical Information, General technical characteristics and finally the exact model you prefer.

    Which the Google search would have revealed, but which the interviewer might have not known.

  • (cs) in reply to Berislav
    Berislav:
    * 1 and 2 go across. * 1 returns with the flashlight. * 5 and 10 go across. * 2 returns. * 1 and 2 go across.

    For a total of 18 minutes.

    • 1 and 2 go across.
    • 1 throws the flashlight to 10
    • 5 and 10 go across.

    Total: 12 minutes.

  • (cs) in reply to more randomer than you
    more randomer than you:
    Code Dependent:
    Krenn:
    "If you were a Jedi living here on earth, what kind of job would you get?"
    Jedi IS a job. He's a holy man. It's a religion, remember?
    No it's not. A bunch or hippies wanted it to be, they were refused and Jedi is not and never was a religion. remember?
    Since there are no Jedis in real life, it goes without saying that we are speaking in the context of the movie: "if you were a Jedi...". If you were, then you would be a holy man. It is a religion in the movies. In the first movie, the commander of of a vessel carrying Darth Vader says as much to him, referring disapprovingly to his "peculiar religion" (or words to that effect) which Vader does not deny.
  • (cs)

    I'd rather have an A- developer who isn't a total shitheel rather than an A+ developer who needs constant coddling because otherwise he'll have a fit.

  • (cs) in reply to Prof AntiQuercus
    Paul Kinlan:
    How would you sell ice to an Eskimo?
    In one- or two-pound bags, same as at any Zip-N-Gyp.
    Prof AntiQuercus:
    Anyone who doesn't immediately correct the term to "man-or-woman-hole" should be immediately excluded.
    Actually, it's "personhole".
  • Steve (unregistered)

    Well, that was certainly fun. Can we talk about something else now. . . like religion or politics?

  • (cs) in reply to Hans
    Hans:
    "Well, Jedi fight for justice, so I'd look for the largest conflict around and stick it to the agressor. I'd probably be fighting in Iraq against the Americans right now."
    No, the Jedi fight against the source of the problem, so wyou would be in Washington instead of Iraq.
  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    Actually, it's "personhole".
    Job Interview 2.0: This time, it's personhole!
  • PB (unregistered) in reply to akatherder
    akatherder:
    How would you determine the weight of a Boeing 747?

    With a scale.

    Where are you going to find a scale that big!?

    Your mom's bathroom.

    awesome!

  • (cs) in reply to bugmenot1
    bugmenot1:
    Hans:
    "Well, Jedi fight for justice, so I'd look for the largest conflict around and stick it to the agressor. I'd probably be fighting in Iraq against the Americans right now."
    No, the Jedi fight against the source of the problem, so wyou would be in Washington instead of Iraq.
    Maybe they could just wave their hands in front of Bush/Cheney/Rice and say, "These are not the wars you are looking for."
  • Jorgey Porgey (unregistered) in reply to Mog
    Mog:
    Yanman.be:
    The light bulbs thingy is easy:

    First light 1 switch for 5 minutse, so it gets warm. Turn it off Turn on the other one and open the box. First switch corresponsd to warm lightbulb. Second switch is the lit bulb. Third switch is the unlit bulb.

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    Easy, you just do the same thing. Warm one up, and then flip it off and turn on one. You now have light switches you can label Warm, Cold, and On.

    If any of these these anticipated lights states are missing, you can attribute it to the broken one (excepting Cold, obviously, since the broken one is always Cold.).

    The Cold dark one is the light you didn't turn on (broken or not). If none are on, the broken one is the switch left On. If one is On, and the other is Cold, the broken one was the Warm one. If one is On, and the other is Warm, the broken one was the Cold one.

  • IByte (unregistered)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_747-8 : "747-8I Empty weight: 211,700 kg"

    Now that was a lot easier than a water-displacement scale, wasn't it?

    (Of course, I had to make a couple of assumptions regarding the question whether it was an African or a European Boeing...)

  • Worf (unregistered) in reply to vr602
    vr602:
    1) What kind of world is it where I move 10 times faster than one of the other members of the group??! That's just not realistic. No-one moves that slowly.

    There are people who instead of walking, do what looks more like a penguin waddle. And there are people (like me) who have a faster-than-average gait who always have to go around people...

    Now, why someone would go on a hike with penguin-waddler, is another discussion altogether...

  • (cs) in reply to Worf
    Worf:
    Now, why someone would go on a hike with penguin-waddler, is another discussion altogether...
    I usually come upon entire families of these, spread out side to side across the aisle in a store. It's quicker to backtrack and go down another aisle.
  • Robert S. Robbins (unregistered)

    I'd rather be asked to provide the answer to a koan by a Zen master to prove my enlightenment than answer a programming question during a job interview.

    If I were giving job interviews for programmers I'd just list every technical skill I could think of and then hire the person who had the most prior knowledge because nothing is more important than broad expertise and experience.

    For example, I'd ask the job candidate if he knows how to use CSS to control the font color of a web page print-out. I'd ask him if he knows anything about alternative style sheets. I'd ask about cascade deletes in SQL Server. How would you transform JSON to XML? There are thousands of technical details and a huge advantage in being familiar with a wide range of obscure tips and tricks.

  • (cs) in reply to vr602
    vr602:
    What kind of world is it where I move 10 times faster than one of the other members of the group??! That's just not realistic. No-one moves that slowly.

    But it's quite possible for one software developer to be 10x as good as another. Or for one thread to complete its task 10x faster than another. How do you schedule 4 threads on 2 CPUs that need to share data and thus must move in sync with each other?

  • rydazzle (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    dude, don't touch the box.

  • (cs) in reply to Prof AntiQuercus
    Prof AntiQuercus:
    I think this question is designed to detect sexist biases. Anyone who doesn't immediately correct the term to "man-or-woman-hole" should be immediately excluded.

    If you manage to land a job after uttering the phrase "woman hole" during the interview, please let us know.

  • (cs) in reply to Robert S. Robbins
    Robert S. Robbins:
    I'd rather be asked to provide the answer to a koan by a Zen master to prove my enlightenment than answer a programming question during a job interview.
    • how to use CSS to control the font color of a web page print-out
    • alternative style sheets
    • cascade deletes in SQL Server
    • transform JSON to XML
    These differ from the dreaded "programming questions" in what respect?
  • BulbLooker (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    Did it says Opaque box?

    So can't you just SEE what bulb is lighting up?

  • Tyldak (unregistered) in reply to B92

    The puzzle thing is a cute way of evaluating kids just out of school without any real experience -- I went through it in my early 20s and it made sense - there wasn't much else to go on. Now I have half a brain, a college education, and over 10 years of experience. You whip out your puzzle and I flip you the bird and walk. If I don't even try your test you don't want me? Good, because if you have that test in the first place, I don't want the job.

  • (cs) in reply to smartone
    smartone:
    Frongle:
    smartone:
    (or if they write it in whitespace?)
    I don't think whitespace is a language.... and if they use whitespace to make a solution, you'll immediately see that the program doesn;'t do what it's required to....
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whitespace_(programming_language)
    Plus which, it's Turing-complete, which means that there's no reason why it shouldn't.

    Other than that, 100% spot-on.

  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    real_aardvark:
    Curiously, or perhaps cretinously, it inspired me to buy the book "How do you move Mount Fuji?" which deals with precisely these questions and a lot of interesting Stanford-Binet history besides.
    My comment has only the most vaporous (or vapourous, if you prefer; or we could just go with "tenuous") of connections to yours; but you sparked a memory. I can tell you how to move Mount Fuji, because I've done it.

    Well, okay, it wasn't Mt. Fuji, specifically; it was a mountain in Hermitage, Tennessee, in another life (circa 1974). A bassist friend and I had moved there to sell ourselves as a duo -- bass and drums -- and as luck would have it, they were building a new highway within walking distance of the apartments we rented (it takes a while to get established in the music biz in Nashville). So we hired on as heavy equipment operators, a field in which we both had some experience. We worked a deal with the foreman that as long as they had work for us, we could work on the highway between gigs, and then take off on the road when we got work with a band.

    My friend Jack drove a Cat #9 dozer, and I drove a pull (or scraper, or earth-mover; I think the names for those things are regional). And we literally moved a mountain into a valley. Jack and another dozer were positioned at the top of this mountain, and me and about five other pulls drove up one side and were pushed down the other side until our cradles were full, and then we bounced and careened our way down the slope and into the valley, where we dumped out our loads and went back up for more.

    It paid, if I recall correctly, $3.82 per hour, which was a livable wage for the place and time. We worked there off and on for about five months, until I found out my wife was pregnant with our first child, and I decided to take up a more dependable line of work.

    I drove back through there again a couple of years back. Tried to find those same apartments, but they were gone. I did see, though, that they succeeded in getting the rest of that mountain moved, even without my help. How 'bout that.

    (I could snip this, but it's vastly more entertaining than most of the Boeing-related dross so far.)

    As I think I mentioned last time the book came up, I have the perfect answer.

    Question: How do you move Mount Fuji? Answer: Read it a really sad Haiku.

  • sewiv (unregistered) in reply to Seraph

    The answer is 5 minutes. You pick up the first person, cross with with them in 1 minute, put them down, cross back in 1 minute, pick up the next person, cross in 1 minute, and so on.

    3 crossings, 2 crossings back.

  • (cs) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    Question: How do you move Mount Fuji? Answer: Read it a really sad Haiku.
    Bravo, sir!

    And on that note, I think I'll go home early today. It's too beautiful outside to be sitting in here simultaneously writing/compiling code and typing stuff on TheDailyWTF. I sense a beverage in my near future.

  • the amazing null (unregistered)

    the problem, as i see it, with these questions is that they ignore the basic tendency of creative people: fix the situation, making the problem moot. this is sort of a kobayashi maru issue. like the flashlight question. my answer involves determining who has the greatest carry capacity. the lights one depends on the idea that the bulbs get warm, they may not, and that every switch is connected to exactly one bulb and that all the bulbs are even wired to a switch. the airplane one has several solutions as well. some mundane and practical, some really exotic and well, useless. i was once asked an interview question. i failed the test because i could not answer the question. i asked the interviewer and they gave me the answer. it was probabilistic, not deterministic. i pointed out a completely plausible way for it to fail. they said the question may need revision but pointed out that i did not have a correct answer either... drones.

  • YourMoFoFriend (unregistered)

    To all those "Ask me puzzle and I walk" guys, yeah, we get it, you're so flipping awesome that everyone should bow down with respect in the presence of your awesomeness. And god forbid we take 2 minutes of your precious time to ask you something you deem irrelevant... your awesome ass will storm out in disgust. GOOD. Go work someplace where you can sit all alone in your hole and solve very relevant and awesomely important problems all by yourself. The rest of us, I guess, are stuck working with, hmm, OTHER PEOPLE, in like TEAMS and such, and people are not computers, they CAN BE and often ARE unpredictable, and the last thing any sane person want in their team is an asshole who throws a fit because someone asked them something they do not think fits their job description.
    Seriously, have you never talked to "business department" guys??? Those people come up with questions you'd never expect and you really have to be civil about it because really they are the important ones, not you. And don't get me started on stuff customers throw at you! Going to storm out of a meeting with them as well??? Gees, what a bunch of self important pricks.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to more randomer than you
    more randomer than you:
    Jimmyboy:
    Do I give up immediately when presented with an utterly ludicrous and contrived problem that I can't even begin to imagine why you're asking about, let alone expecting an answer to? Quite possibly - I'm looking for a job, and don't have time to fuck around.

    You have time to apply for an alternative job, organise an interview and complete an interview, but not the time to answer a 5 minute question regardless of how sensible it is?

    Well yeah - the employer failed the interview, so you have to find another one.

    Technical Thug:
    vr602:
    What kind of world is it where I move 10 times faster than one of the other members of the group??! That's just not realistic. No-one moves that slowly.

    But it's quite possible for one software developer to be 10x as good as another. Or for one thread to complete its task 10x faster than another. How do you schedule 4 threads on 2 CPUs that need to share data and thus must move in sync with each other?

    Use a synchronization barrier - totally different from finding out how long it takes to finish.

  • Sniper (unregistered) in reply to Hans
    Hans:
    Krenn:
    One final interview question that I've never actually heard: "If you were a Jedi living here on earth, what kind of job would you get?" Might be interesting, though I'm sure most people wouldn't be completely honest. Still, it would be a more fun question than answering the same riddles about prisoners and light switches, pirates and treasure, or whatever...

    "Well, Jedi fight for justice, so I'd look for the largest conflict around and stick it to the agressor. I'd probably be fighting in Iraq against the Americans right now."

    The "just" side doesn't automatically mean the smallest/underdog side. If you want justice for these people, go back and fight for them during the crusades, when they really were being persecuted unjustly.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Sniper
    Sniper:
    The "just" side doesn't automatically mean the smallest/underdog side. If you want justice for these people, go back and fight for them during the crusades, when they really were being persecuted unjustly.

    Well, now they're just being occupied and generally getting ravaged by a general atmosphere of lawlessness, so there's something to fight for there.

  • Procedural (unregistered) in reply to Paul Kinlan
    Paul Kinlan:
    The question about building a bike for a blind man made me think of the one I heard about on the "interview question" websites.

    How would you sell ice to an Eskimo?

    WTF, Why would I be so amoral to do that!!!

    Exploit the sentimental value angle ? How his ancestors actually touched some of that stuff, before the bears learned to swim for huge distances ?

  • Dave G. (unregistered) in reply to YourMoFoFriend
    YourMoFoFriend:
    To all those "Ask me puzzle and I walk" guys, yeah, we get it, you're so flipping awesome that everyone should bow down with respect in the presence of your awesomeness. And god forbid we take 2 minutes of your precious time to ask you something you deem irrelevant... your awesome ass will storm out in disgust. GOOD. Go work someplace where you can sit all alone in your hole and solve very relevant and awesomely important problems all by yourself. The rest of us, I guess, are stuck working with, hmm, OTHER PEOPLE, in like TEAMS and such, and people are not computers, they CAN BE and often ARE unpredictable, and the last thing any sane person want in their team is an asshole who throws a fit because someone asked them something they do not think fits their job description. Seriously, have you never talked to "business department" guys??? Those people come up with questions you'd never expect and you really have to be civil about it because really they are the important ones, not you. And don't get me started on stuff customers throw at you! Going to storm out of a meeting with them as well??? Gees, what a bunch of self important pricks.

    I think you hit the nail on the head there, chump. You're a typical wannabe IT manager dickhead whose death the rest of us secretly and sometimes not so secretly plans. "The business department makes us money, you cost us money, so do what you're fucking told you gimp". We hear stories about you from time to time on this very site.

    I'm not surprised you're upset at this thread - you can't stand the fact that someone other than an "important business person" would dare to oppose your iron-fisted rule. You have all the hallmarks of an utterly useless manager and I think everybody here is glad as fuck that they don't have anything to do with you.

    Cram it up your ass.

Leave a comment on “Classic WTF: Job Interview 2.0: Now With Riddles!”

Log In or post as a guest

Replying to comment #:

Log Out

« Return to Article