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Admin
How about just opening the box and following the wiring from the switch to the bulbs?
Admin
Are you possibly confusing opaque with transparent?
Admin
I think some people need to go back to deleting stuff on Wikipedia.
Admin
Q: How do you move Mount Fuji?
A: How many pieces can it be in afterward?
Admin
Perhaps it is useful to try different wave lengths, IR, UV, radar..., until you find one where the box is transparent and you can see the lights.
Admin
Admin
google "How much does a 747 weigh?"
Admin
If we harken back to the original article which started all this spewing of vitriol, we will notice that the whole point is that Microsoft realized that the puzzle solving exercise didn't work and is something of a waste of time. Byt the way, I'm told by a former colleague who interviewed at Google (and now works there) that they don't do puzzles either. He was asked one question that took the form of a puzzle or problem but it was really just a jumping off point for a discussion of queuing theory.
Taking a hypothetical (and possibly highly unlikely, but go with me here) set of equally talented candidates, some will like solving riddles and others won't. Some will do well and some won't. This doesn't separate the smart people from the dullards (remember, we're postulating a pool of equally skilled), it just separates the puzzleheads from those who either don't know the answer because they're heard the riddle before or whose minds just don't work in that way.
I suppose if you want a cadre of riddle solvers in your staff, this is a good thing, but otherwise, probably not so.
Personally, I like mathematically or combinatorically oriented puzzles but I can't usually solve them in my head -- I have to sit down with a pencil and paper in a quiet place and think about them for a while. I guess I'd flunk the interview.
It strikes me that a lot of the puzzle-type interview questions aren't so much to elicit creativity on the part of the interviewee as to demonstrate the superiority of the interviewer. Here you have a person who wants something from you (a job). Let's see what sort of hoops we can make this person jump through. It does nothing other than to establish a pecking order. If you're in a hierarchical organization where pecking order (and perhaps office politics) mean a lot, then that may be a useful thing to determine, of course.
I probably wouldn't do well in that sort of situation but I've been quite lucky in that I haven't had any of those sorts of interviews in a long while (in fact, since I got out of radio in the late 1970s). The sort of interviews I've had, if you can even call them that, usually involve sitting down over coffee and discussing the problem which needs to be solved and trading ideas. Riddles would just be a distraction. But, as I said, I've been pretty fortunate in that respect -- the potential employer already knows what I do and what I can do (probably because we've already collaborated or worked together in the past) -- and we don't need to game each other. I realize that's not always the case.
In a previous thread I said that if someone asked me what superpower I'd want, the interview would probably be over at that point. I feel I should clarify and say that I didn't mean that I would walk out in a huff or flip the person off, but I'd definitely be looking for a quick and polite exit, knowing that I'd somehow walked into a situation where I'm not going to fit in very well. I don't want to waste their time or mine.
Your mileage may vary.
Admin
Sorry, but isn't estimation considered a vital skill? Read Programming Pearls, and one of the questions that is asked is how much water passes through the Amazon River every hour. God, that is so useless... except that it then goes on to show that the EXACT same techniques were used to prove that a proposed system would require a 28 hour day, based on the sending time of a one-character e-mail. So this "ridiculous question" has direct applications to your job.
Admin
I used to work for Microsoft and performed a great many job interviews. TOP seems to think this is a new practice; it isn't. When I interviewed there in '93 they were doing it.
One commentor got it partially right; does the person just give up?
There are several reasons for these kinds of interview questions:
And not everyone that interviews at Microsoft is interviewing for a programming job. Support has a huge head count and, guess what? sometimes support is about finding an answer to an ambiguous and vague problem statement.
Final word on the subject: Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company that is very good at what it does. If their practices seem stupid and irrelevant to you, maybe the problem is in your perception rather than their implementation.
Admin
Admin
Maybe we can all just get along, huh? :-)
Yep. And, I agree, acting like a jerk gets you nowhere, except on someone's "list", and all too often what goes around comes around.I've never been asked any sort of puzzle in the years when I was actively job-seeking but, again, the person doing the interviewing generally already knew who I am and what I do, often in some considerable detail. I've also mostly steered clear of the corporate and/or business world, since my bent is more toward research and doing science.
Academic and scientific research labs seem to work somewhat differently in their hiring methods.
One institution I looked at going to a few years ago which did seem more inclined to the interview "gamesmanship" (in both the sense of using puzzles as discriminants and in the way the interviews were conducted) was funded as a philanthropic venture by a major corporation which I shall not name and seemed to have inherited a large part of the corporate culture. They ended up not withdrawing the job posting and not hiring anyone for reasons far too complicated to discuss here. It turned out that they had some serious management problems and to this day have a lot of staff turnover, which may (or may not) say something relevant.
When I've interviewed, I usually spent a lot of time listening and occasionally asking a question. When I've been in the role of the interviewer, I'm more interested in any questions a candidate asks than any answers they give. The questions far more often are indicative of abilities and interests than any answers, to puzzles or to the "where do you want to be in five years from now" sort of questions.
Admin
In the real world documentation is scarce, and in the case of new projects - non-existant.
Managers will want people who can think of their feet, come up with their own solutions and have a method to solving problems.
People without these abilities can always get a code-monkey job (fortunately for yourself), but they will never be as highly valued as those willing and capable of solving new problems.
Admin
Open the box and look at the wiring ?!
captcha: haero (again)
Admin
And, of course, the next person to hire them is someone starry-eyed enough to be wowed by having someone "famous" working with them. However, they can't actually have this person work with anyone else, because everyone else will quit after a year. You can see this when someone, say, quickly rotates through co-authors on the papers they submit.
Some people minimize stress in an organization. Others magnify it and project it out to as many others as possible through their tantrums.
Admin
Failed lamp is the "on" one: identify warm lamp. Swap other two. All is well.
Failed lamp is the "cold and dark" one: you'll never notice that it failed. All is well.
Failed lamp is the "warm and dark" one: take out the lit lamp. In turns, put the cold, dark lamps into the socket with power on. Whichever fails to light is the one that should have been warm.
Dang: I was hoping there was a scenario where we had to stick the interviewer's tongue onto the exposed electrodes of a broken bulb to determine which socket had power.
Admin
Q: Why are manhole covers round?
A: Because 9/11 changed everything.
Admin
"These tests are relatively simple and not brain teasers (we don't expect anybody to write a solver for Soduko in 2 hours). "
You just described my last interview at a company that's running a rather popular MMO. They thought I was a great fit for the team and wanted to give me a programming test. Okay, no problem.
Two questions, six hours. One of the questions was to write a sudoku solver. The other one was some bizarre mathematical problem I still don't know how to solve, let alone write code for.
I was mighty pissed.
Admin
I'll take lawlessness over the Taliban/Saddam Hussein any day. If you look back at history, many countries go through a period of lawlessness/anarchy before emerging into some type of better government (thats how it works on Civilization IV too!) However, most countries do it on their own, through their own resistance movements, whereas Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran have no one strong enough to resist, but they have plenty of strength trying to bring back the status quo. If it were me, I would not have America in there either, but the men and women of those countries should be fighting to make things better, not blowing themselves up in an attempt to bring back the Taliban. Religions fanaticism is a disease, and I am glad at least some people in this world are willing to combat it.
Admin
Turn bulbs 1&2 on, wait. Turn 1 off, turn 3 on. Open the box.
Now I have three bulbs. 1-warm,off 2-warm,on 3-cold,off
If one was broken it would be cold and off so it would be easy to see.
If we don't have broken bulbs we can even do it with 4 bulbs (leaving the 4th one as cold and off), do I get candy now?
Admin
Nobody said the lights were incandescent.
Admin
You have no eyes and no hands.
Now what do you do?
Admin
I'd design a tandem bike with a seeing person in front.
Admin
I'd smell which one is which...What? You don't have a smell like that? I can smell you and tell if your wife is cheating on you...Wha? Where are you going Sir...Sir!
Even the most sane IT guy will reach the point where he just will stop giving a f**k about the job and start making fun of it.
Admin
Actually, cutting a notch out of a circle is sufficient to make a shape which can fit through the hole, though arguably it'd make it harder to do so by accident.
Admin
Ooh, I know this one! Kick the interviewer in the shins, then use the ensuing scream to locate his head. Apply elbow to the jaw then forehead to nosebridge. Thusly subdued, drag his limp body over to the machine. Apply the half nelson chokehold using interlocked wrists, then position his head as best you can next to the exposed socket. When he's regained conciousness apply a firm pressure to his neck and ask him, "When is a fish not a fish?" before delivering the deathblow, choking his last breath out of him as you slam him headfirst into the shattered glass and electrical wiring.
Admin
easy - if you know which switch position is on and which is off, but a better answer than I can provide!
Admin
Not sure how you got rage and despair out of my comments. The difficult question is there to see how someone handles a bit of stress. I would find it hard to believe that you live in a magical job that has no stress whatsoever. Good luck to you finding that job.
Admin
I asked my dad about this issue, he used to work in a foundry that made both manhole covers and the manhole socket that the sat on. The reason that they are round is that a round shape is the only shape you can cast in one piece., that once placed in its aperture can then be revolved so that it locks. The aperture had a hole in the side, the cover had a piece about 4 inches long and and inch wider then the rest of the lip. When you dropped the lid down the extended piece would drop down into the hole and then it could be revolved slightly to lock the manhole cover in place.
Admin
I once did a search on microsoft inteview questions to kill some time. I learned that if you are going to google "man hole" it is advisable to ensure that safe search is turned on.
Admin
Or they're the kind of people who fail to see why the question you asked is relevant to the job you are offering, and would rather you ask a question (or a riddle, or whatever), in which they can explain their thought processes on a relevant question.
The last time I was asked a question about how I would estimate the number of ping pong balls needed to refloat a 10x10x3ft barge I walked out. Considering the job on offer was as a sysadmin, and not a salvage expert.
Admin
Admin
I have to say, this outlook on such is lame, shortsighted, and stupid.
The point of such questions, if they are applied correctly and responses written out, is to show the way the person thinks and approaches a problem. Getting the correct answer in some cases may not even be relevant. Such questions ARE functional in a hiring environment, as a "first pass" triage mechanism used for identifying people who can actually reason and think and express their reasoning in words and numbers, from the more common variety of individuals.
Designed properly, such a test would show your ability to read and comprehend a description of a problem, set up a possible solution, and identify any possible missing information.
Gee, that doesn't sound like a useful skill set at all for programmers, does it?
:-/
Sure, you can elicit this in an interview that's taking up peoples' time, or you could possibly put such questions into a test for them to take prior to setting up interviews in the first place.
If someone can't write out rational answers, applicable questions about possible ambiguities, etc., then they are probably enough of a dullard that they should be working for Oracle or Microsoft...
And no, I've never formulated such a test, nor used one for hiring, but I have worked at places which did, and was privy to how the responses were used, much as I've described above.
You could look at some of the responses and tell the people couldn't handle the concept of NUMBERs, much less programming.
Admin
Some of us don't assume our job is so finely delineated that we plan ahead on claiming "Sorry, not in my job description" when asked to do something requiring thinking ability.
I approach it with the notion that the company is paying me for my ability to think, independently, and without endless supervision. Anything they assign me that isn't physically disgusting or onerous after that is pretty much up to them. Considering what I get paid, they'd be stupid to mis-assign me to lame, boring tasks for the most part which could be handled by someone making minimum wage, unless there is a component which requires thinking.
I'm getting highly paid for my ability to think and reason -- So I usually don't assume ANYTHING involving intellect is outside my job description, including a seemingly oddball request like "how to refloat a barge with ping pong balls".
But that's just me. YMMV.
:-/
Admin
During a screening interview, I was asked how I would design a bike fit for someone visually impaired. I responded something to the effect of, "What, like, for blind people?", and she answered yes.
I thought for a moment and then I responded, "Well.. a blind person riding a bike doesn't sound like a very safe idea, so I would make the bike stationary, maybe with a fan blowing in the person's face. He probably wouldn't even know the difference."
She was speechless.
Now, granted, he will not get the job. Despite the complete absurdity of the design request, and the complete practicality of his answer, the job will go to a candidate who manages to answer the question by designing an extremely overcomplicated solution for a completely non-existent problem. And that candidate will be the same person who designs their software.
I can't answer for that company, but that response is smart and thoughtful. It shows lateral thinking and imagination, and would be exactly the sort of reason you might ask such an oddball question. I'd put this guy in the "extra plus" column for that answer.
He instantly stepped beyond the bounds of the problem assigned and looked at it on a meta-level. Since most hacker humor involves meta-levels (Classic example: Holding up a white notecard with the statement, "This is Green" in blue pen), it shows the signs of a good programmer.
That's not saying it's how the company used the question, but it points out that seemingly bizarre questions could be designed to show things that an engineering-style up-front-only analysis might not display.
Further, a good set of these questions could be designed by an industrial psychologist to identify certain types of personalities -- if not with certainty but with some reliability, which, again, could be useful in hiring scenarios.
So there are two specific reasons why your analysis does not hold water.
Admin
Which right there might tell you something.
When the hell have you ever know M$ to get things right? Even in the next service pack?
You're lucky if they EVER get it right.
If M$ decided it didn't work, and was a waste of time, you have two options:
Now: Given the history of M$ -- which way do you want to bet?
:oP
.
Admin
How? You gots no hands!!
See? Ya gotta think things through. THAT is why these tests exist.
Besides which, your solution is overcomplicated. You should just finish 'im/her with a throat jab and be done with it. Thanks to the scream, you'll even know you succeeded. (An ensuing, lone thump might only indicate you'd knocked them out).
See?
;o)
P.S., You related to Rube Goldberg?
.
Admin
I hear that all cranes have scales. So I guess you could theoretically suspend the plane in slings and add up the forces.
Admin
that won't make a difference. Upon opening the box you find 1 warm bulb, 1 broken bulb, and 1 cold bulb. Still can figure out which switch is which.
Admin
I'm not so sure that asking riddles is all that bad a test of an applicant. It tests ability to think on one's feet and gives insight into the applicant's thinking processes. for example when asked; "How would you determine the weight of a Boeing 747?"
I'd think that a great answer is "I'd ask Boeing", It's direct, it gets the job done and its probably the safest course since undoubtedly only Boeing would know all the many factors effect the weight like, the specific model, loaded weight of any passengers, cargo or fuel, etc. Depending on how accurate you need the weight to be you might need to know the cabin pressurization, the current altitude (gravity changes, etc.), water/ice buildup on the skin, etc.
Of course, if you're interested in a quick approximate answer (Boeing might take weeks to return an answer) you could Google it. I did and the Boeing web site says the 747-400 domestic's Maximum Takeoff Weight is 833,000 lb (378,182 kg) so I'd go with that.
As an interviewer I'd take any answer that gets the job done and doesn't show weird mental problems in the applicant. Failure on the question would be answers like; "I refuse to do ridiculous tests like this", "I'd use yo' Momma's scale", "I'd wait for the Lord to send me a sign and by the way have you accepted Jesus into your heart?" or "I'd go with what I always do, I'd guess either zero or a million pounds and plan on coming back and revisiting it later before we went into production".
Anytime you give an applicant an opportunity to show he's smart and not a hidden nutjob is a good thing. Ask some sometime and be surprised how often it flushes crazy people out of the bushes.
Of course, maybe i'm biased because I do enjoy solving these kind of riddles.
Admin
I think all the anti-riddlers agree that the intended purpose of the riddles is as you state. However as with everything, when things are put into practice, it usually falls well short of the intended purpose.
If I understand correctly, the point the anti-riddlers are trying to make is that far too often, these riddles are not used in the manner they are intended, but rather as simple "ha-ha" gotchas or "look how dumb you are! you didn't even think of this simple solution!", which result in far too many otherwise perfectly qualifying candidates being outright dismissed.
From the interviewee perspective, there is no good means of determining if the interviewer asking the riddles is intending to and will use the riddles like they should be used (as you describe above), or if the interviewer will use it to simply weed out the ones who can't figure out the "correct" answer (correct here being defined as the answer in the interviewer's mind, whether or not the interviewee provides equally valid or better answers).
Frankly, if I were an employer, I'd be afraid of using riddles in an interview for the simple fact it would be difficult to defend against a lawsuit.
Admin
If the exact question "Given an opaque box with three light bulbs inside and three switches outside, how would you determine which switch corresponded to which bulb if the box could be opened only once and only after all the switches were permanently set? "
The simplest thing to do would be to set the switches, open the box, and see what switch was wired to what bulb socket.
amirite?
Admin
This reminds me of an Interview 2.0 question: "We're redesigning this floor of the building. How would you figure out how big to make the bathrooms and how many of which fixtures to put in?"
Having supervised a build-out on an office building a few years before, in most areas in the U.S. there is exactly one right answer. You take the square footage and expected occupancy, and then either look it up in the local building code, and verify it with the municipal planning department. Then you put in at least that much stuff.
However, that wasn't good enough for him. And everything I tried to provide a basis for a serious answer, he shot down: "How many people will be on this floor?" "It shouldn't matter." "Okay, I'll assume 200." "No, you can't do that."
He was clearly dissatisfied with my approach - I think he had a particular answer in mind. And I didn't get the position.
A while later, I worked with a guy who had previously worked for that company, and he said I was very lucky not to have worked there.
Admin
What if there led bulbs
Admin
I have so many strenths, I can barely contain them.
Admin
Two solutions to weighing a 747:
Roll the 747 across a series of bridges with successively smaller weight limits. When one of them collapses, take the weight limit and add 1/2 the difference between this one and the previous bridge.
Build a large force sensor. Fly the 747 into the sensor at 400mph. Divide the resulting force by the velocity to get the mass. On Earth, that should be pretty close to the weight.
Admin
alright, although this is (very) late,
i figured i'd share how airplane maintenance peoples actually weigh airplanes.. as i find it quite cool.
there are 3 hydraulic lifts, 1 under each wheel (if more wheels, then one under each i guess). then the plane is lifted about 1/4 of an inch off the ground and the pressure in the lifts tubes are used to calculate how much the plane weighs.
And yeah, these lifts are TINY.
Cameraphone Pics: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9721/img012gr3.jpg http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1904/img011yx5.jpg http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4412/img010wl9.jpg
Note: I took these pictures because i am doing a research project for these companies
Admin
An employee will give up / bang his head agains the brick wall (problem) depending on how motivated he is (becomes during the stay at your company). And that you should assess from the "personality" part of the interview, if you can't figure that out and use these kind of question - you're (at best) a mediocre interviewer.
Granted that the most useless question in an interview would be the one you mentioned, these question follow...
Admin
thanks
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