• Billy Bob (unregistered) in reply to Mog
    Mog:
    Yanman.be:
    The light bulbs thingy is easy:

    First light 1 switch for 5 minutse, so it gets warm. Turn it off Turn on the other one and open the box. First switch corresponsd to warm lightbulb. Second switch is the lit bulb. Third switch is the unlit bulb.

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    How about just opening the box and following the wiring from the switch to the bulbs?

  • Opacity 50% (unregistered) in reply to BulbLooker
    BulbLooker:
    Did it says Opaque box?

    So can't you just SEE what bulb is lighting up?

    Are you possibly confusing opaque with transparent?

  • (cs)

    I think some people need to go back to deleting stuff on Wikipedia.

  • cdog (unregistered)

    Q: How do you move Mount Fuji?

    A: How many pieces can it be in afterward?

  • (cs) in reply to Opacity 50%

    Perhaps it is useful to try different wave lengths, IR, UV, radar..., until you find one where the box is transparent and you can see the lights.

  • YourMoFoFriend (unregistered) in reply to Dave G.
    Dave G.:
    YourMoFoFriend:
    To all those "Ask me puzzle and I walk" guys, yeah, we get it, you're so flipping awesome that everyone should bow down with respect in the presence of your awesomeness. And god forbid we take 2 minutes of your precious time to ask you something you deem irrelevant... your awesome ass will storm out in disgust. GOOD. Go work someplace where you can sit all alone in your hole and solve very relevant and awesomely important problems all by yourself. The rest of us, I guess, are stuck working with, hmm, OTHER PEOPLE, in like TEAMS and such, and people are not computers, they CAN BE and often ARE unpredictable, and the last thing any sane person want in their team is an asshole who throws a fit because someone asked them something they do not think fits their job description. Seriously, have you never talked to "business department" guys??? Those people come up with questions you'd never expect and you really have to be civil about it because really they are the important ones, not you. And don't get me started on stuff customers throw at you! Going to storm out of a meeting with them as well??? Gees, what a bunch of self important pricks.

    I think you hit the nail on the head there, chump. You're a typical wannabe IT manager dickhead whose death the rest of us secretly and sometimes not so secretly plans. "The business department makes us money, you cost us money, so do what you're fucking told you gimp". We hear stories about you from time to time on this very site.

    I'm not surprised you're upset at this thread - you can't stand the fact that someone other than an "important business person" would dare to oppose your iron-fisted rule. You have all the hallmarks of an utterly useless manager and I think everybody here is glad as fuck that they don't have anything to do with you.

    Cram it up your ass.

    Are you retarded? I've been a software developer for about 15 years now, not a manager, not even close. Anyway, if you really think that developers run companies, and not the "business", you're severely mistaken. It'll pass... eventually. And if you think you are so cool that you'll never need to talk to one of them (admittedly annoying sometimes) "business" or "customer" folks, grow the fuck up... or stay in your moms' basement writing the next best computer game evuh, after all the world does need you drones for some tasks I guess, as long as there's no human contact involved. Jackass.

  • stev5k (unregistered)

    google "How much does a 747 weigh?"

  • Steve (unregistered) in reply to YourMoFoFriend
    YourMoFoFriend:
    Dave G.:
    YourMoFoFriend:
    To all those "Ask me puzzle and I walk" guys, yeah, we get it, you're so flipping awesome that everyone should bow down with respect in the presence of your awesomeness. [...] Gees, what a bunch of self important pricks.
    I think you hit the nail on the head there, chump. [...] Cram it up your ass.
    Are you retarded? [...] Jackass.
    Holy Moly! We seem to be hitting some nerves here, aren't we?

    If we harken back to the original article which started all this spewing of vitriol, we will notice that the whole point is that Microsoft realized that the puzzle solving exercise didn't work and is something of a waste of time. Byt the way, I'm told by a former colleague who interviewed at Google (and now works there) that they don't do puzzles either. He was asked one question that took the form of a puzzle or problem but it was really just a jumping off point for a discussion of queuing theory.

    Taking a hypothetical (and possibly highly unlikely, but go with me here) set of equally talented candidates, some will like solving riddles and others won't. Some will do well and some won't. This doesn't separate the smart people from the dullards (remember, we're postulating a pool of equally skilled), it just separates the puzzleheads from those who either don't know the answer because they're heard the riddle before or whose minds just don't work in that way.

    I suppose if you want a cadre of riddle solvers in your staff, this is a good thing, but otherwise, probably not so.

    Personally, I like mathematically or combinatorically oriented puzzles but I can't usually solve them in my head -- I have to sit down with a pencil and paper in a quiet place and think about them for a while. I guess I'd flunk the interview.

    It strikes me that a lot of the puzzle-type interview questions aren't so much to elicit creativity on the part of the interviewee as to demonstrate the superiority of the interviewer. Here you have a person who wants something from you (a job). Let's see what sort of hoops we can make this person jump through. It does nothing other than to establish a pecking order. If you're in a hierarchical organization where pecking order (and perhaps office politics) mean a lot, then that may be a useful thing to determine, of course.

    I probably wouldn't do well in that sort of situation but I've been quite lucky in that I haven't had any of those sorts of interviews in a long while (in fact, since I got out of radio in the late 1970s). The sort of interviews I've had, if you can even call them that, usually involve sitting down over coffee and discussing the problem which needs to be solved and trading ideas. Riddles would just be a distraction. But, as I said, I've been pretty fortunate in that respect -- the potential employer already knows what I do and what I can do (probably because we've already collaborated or worked together in the past) -- and we don't need to game each other. I realize that's not always the case.

    In a previous thread I said that if someone asked me what superpower I'd want, the interview would probably be over at that point. I feel I should clarify and say that I didn't mean that I would walk out in a huff or flip the person off, but I'd definitely be looking for a quick and polite exit, knowing that I'd somehow walked into a situation where I'm not going to fit in very well. I don't want to waste their time or mine.

    Your mileage may vary.

  • Tom (unregistered) in reply to D0R

    Sorry, but isn't estimation considered a vital skill? Read Programming Pearls, and one of the questions that is asked is how much water passes through the Amazon River every hour. God, that is so useless... except that it then goes on to show that the EXACT same techniques were used to prove that a proposed system would require a 28 hour day, based on the sending time of a one-character e-mail. So this "ridiculous question" has direct applications to your job.

  • DAniel (unregistered)

    I used to work for Microsoft and performed a great many job interviews. TOP seems to think this is a new practice; it isn't. When I interviewed there in '93 they were doing it.

    One commentor got it partially right; does the person just give up?

    There are several reasons for these kinds of interview questions:

    1. Give up too easily (as cited already)
    2. How creative will the person be in coming up with an answer? (whether or not an actual answer is found is irrelevant)
    3. Does the person not take it seriously? (what, you think we're just yanking your chain?)

    And not everyone that interviews at Microsoft is interviewing for a programming job. Support has a huge head count and, guess what? sometimes support is about finding an answer to an ambiguous and vague problem statement.

    Final word on the subject: Microsoft is a multi-billion dollar company that is very good at what it does. If their practices seem stupid and irrelevant to you, maybe the problem is in your perception rather than their implementation.

  • YourMoFoFriend (unregistered) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    YourMoFoFriend:
    Dave G.:
    YourMoFoFriend:
    To all those "Ask me puzzle and I walk" guys, yeah, we get it, you're so flipping awesome that everyone should bow down with respect in the presence of your awesomeness. [...] Gees, what a bunch of self important pricks.
    I think you hit the nail on the head there, chump. [...] Cram it up your ass.
    Are you retarded? [...] Jackass.
    Holy Moly! We seem to be hitting some nerves here, aren't we?
    I'm ready to lay insults off anytime :) I guess that was my point to begin with, regardless of how irrelevant or stupid you think a puzzle on an interview is, chances are sooner or later you will be asked one. If you decide to "storm out" it does show a side of you that to most people would indicate potential difficulty in working with you. Not that it matters since you already run away thinking the company as a whole isn't worth your awesomness, which is stupid in itself as one interviewer asking you a puzzle does not represent the whole company, jumping to a conclusion based on one puzzle shows another unpleasant side of a candidate, doesn't it? Personaly, I like being asked puzzles, I already know why they do it and it therefore in theory should give me an advantage. I can always decide if I want the job later, after they offer it, right? :)
  • Steve (unregistered) in reply to YourMoFoFriend
    YourMoFoFriend:
    I'm ready to lay insults off anytime :)
    Spiffy.

    Maybe we can all just get along, huh? :-)

    YourMoFoFriend:
    I guess that was my point to begin with, regardless of how irrelevant or stupid you think a puzzle on an interview is, chances are sooner or later you will be asked one. . . . Personaly, I like being asked puzzles, I already know why they do it and it therefore in theory should give me an advantage. I can always decide if I want the job later, after they offer it, right? :)
    Yep. And, I agree, acting like a jerk gets you nowhere, except on someone's "list", and all too often what goes around comes around.

    I've never been asked any sort of puzzle in the years when I was actively job-seeking but, again, the person doing the interviewing generally already knew who I am and what I do, often in some considerable detail. I've also mostly steered clear of the corporate and/or business world, since my bent is more toward research and doing science.

    Academic and scientific research labs seem to work somewhat differently in their hiring methods.

    One institution I looked at going to a few years ago which did seem more inclined to the interview "gamesmanship" (in both the sense of using puzzles as discriminants and in the way the interviews were conducted) was funded as a philanthropic venture by a major corporation which I shall not name and seemed to have inherited a large part of the corporate culture. They ended up not withdrawing the job posting and not hiring anyone for reasons far too complicated to discuss here. It turned out that they had some serious management problems and to this day have a lot of staff turnover, which may (or may not) say something relevant.

    When I've interviewed, I usually spent a lot of time listening and occasionally asking a question. When I've been in the role of the interviewer, I'm more interested in any questions a candidate asks than any answers they give. The questions far more often are indicative of abilities and interests than any answers, to puzzles or to the "where do you want to be in five years from now" sort of questions.

  • more randomer than you (unregistered) in reply to Dave G.
    Dave G.:
    In the real world, if an employee has to maintain a legacy system, the first thing they will ask is "where is the documentation"? This is a normal thing to ask. One would hope that legacy systems are documented at least to some extent somewhere. The documentation may not exist, but they will ask for it just in case it might.

    It is not stupid to ask for documentation, because if the documentation does exist, it will allow them to learn the system much more quickly.

    Now when suggesting solutions for this test situation, the first thing they will do is... surprise, say they will look it up in the documentation.

    Therefore, if your stupid test fails them because they, as they would in a real situation, say they will look it up in the documentation - a perfectly normal and correct thing to do - you've really proved sweet fuck all, haven't you?

    These tests are just a way for managers to make themselves feel smug and superior to applicants. "Haha, I know the answer... do you? Do you? Well I do. I'm smart. And I'm going to enjoy watching you fumble about while I sit here basking in the glow of my own smug sense of self-satisfaction. I'm the boss here, and don't you forget it kiddo."

    Not the sort of idiot I want to be working for.

    In the real world documentation is scarce, and in the case of new projects - non-existant.

    Managers will want people who can think of their feet, come up with their own solutions and have a method to solving problems.

    People without these abilities can always get a code-monkey job (fortunately for yourself), but they will never be as highly valued as those willing and capable of solving new problems.

  • Martini (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    Open the box and look at the wiring ?!

    captcha: haero (again)

  • (cs) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    ..., I agree, acting like a jerk gets you nowhere, except on someone's "list", and all too often what goes around comes around.
    That's usually the case. But it's been my experience that the worst people to work with are those who are famous in IT. "Put me on a list? Whatever, thousands of people know my name, I can get another job."

    And, of course, the next person to hire them is someone starry-eyed enough to be wowed by having someone "famous" working with them. However, they can't actually have this person work with anyone else, because everyone else will quit after a year. You can see this when someone, say, quickly rotates through co-authors on the papers they submit.

    Some people minimize stress in an organization. Others magnify it and project it out to as many others as possible through their tantrums.

  • Steve Nuchia (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    Failed lamp is the "on" one: identify warm lamp. Swap other two. All is well.

    Failed lamp is the "cold and dark" one: you'll never notice that it failed. All is well.

    Failed lamp is the "warm and dark" one: take out the lit lamp. In turns, put the cold, dark lamps into the socket with power on. Whichever fails to light is the one that should have been warm.

    Dang: I was hoping there was a scenario where we had to stick the interviewer's tongue onto the exposed electrodes of a broken bulb to determine which socket had power.

  • blunder (unregistered)

    Q: Why are manhole covers round?

    A: Because 9/11 changed everything.

  • Shteve (unregistered) in reply to Lars

    "These tests are relatively simple and not brain teasers (we don't expect anybody to write a solver for Soduko in 2 hours). "

    You just described my last interview at a company that's running a rather popular MMO. They thought I was a great fit for the team and wanted to give me a programming test. Okay, no problem.

    Two questions, six hours. One of the questions was to write a sudoku solver. The other one was some bizarre mathematical problem I still don't know how to solve, let alone write code for.

    I was mighty pissed.

  • Sniper (unregistered) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Franz Kafka:
    Sniper:
    The "just" side doesn't automatically mean the smallest/underdog side. If you want justice for these people, go back and fight for them during the crusades, when they really were being persecuted unjustly.

    Well, now they're just being occupied and generally getting ravaged by a general atmosphere of lawlessness, so there's something to fight for there.

    I'll take lawlessness over the Taliban/Saddam Hussein any day. If you look back at history, many countries go through a period of lawlessness/anarchy before emerging into some type of better government (thats how it works on Civilization IV too!) However, most countries do it on their own, through their own resistance movements, whereas Afghanistan/Iraq/Iran have no one strong enough to resist, but they have plenty of strength trying to bring back the status quo. If it were me, I would not have America in there either, but the men and women of those countries should be fighting to make things better, not blowing themselves up in an attempt to bring back the Taliban. Religions fanaticism is a disease, and I am glad at least some people in this world are willing to combat it.

  • (cs) in reply to Mog
    Mog:
    Yanman.be:
    The light bulbs thingy is easy:

    First light 1 switch for 5 minutse, so it gets warm. Turn it off Turn on the other one and open the box. First switch corresponsd to warm lightbulb. Second switch is the lit bulb. Third switch is the unlit bulb.

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    Turn bulbs 1&2 on, wait. Turn 1 off, turn 3 on. Open the box.

    Now I have three bulbs. 1-warm,off 2-warm,on 3-cold,off

    If one was broken it would be cold and off so it would be easy to see.

    If we don't have broken bulbs we can even do it with 4 bulbs (leaving the 4th one as cold and off), do I get candy now?

  • anonymous (unregistered)

    Nobody said the lights were incandescent.

  • Mr^B (unregistered) in reply to Pluszak
    Pluszak:
    Mog:
    Yanman.be:
    The light bulbs thingy is easy:

    First light 1 switch for 5 minutse, so it gets warm. Turn it off Turn on the other one and open the box. First switch corresponsd to warm lightbulb. Second switch is the lit bulb. Third switch is the unlit bulb.

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    Turn bulbs 1&2 on, wait. Turn 1 off, turn 3 on. Open the box.

    Now I have three bulbs. 1-warm,off 2-warm,on 3-cold,off

    If one was broken it would be cold and off so it would be easy to see.

    If we don't have broken bulbs we can even do it with 4 bulbs (leaving the 4th one as cold and off), do I get candy now?

    You have no eyes and no hands.

    Now what do you do?

  • Leet (unregistered)

    I'd design a tandem bike with a seeing person in front.

  • (cs) in reply to Mr^B
    Mr^B:
    Pluszak:
    Mog:
    Yanman.be:
    The light bulbs thingy is easy:

    First light 1 switch for 5 minutse, so it gets warm. Turn it off Turn on the other one and open the box. First switch corresponsd to warm lightbulb. Second switch is the lit bulb. Third switch is the unlit bulb.

    But now one of the bulbs is broken. What would you do?

    Turn bulbs 1&2 on, wait. Turn 1 off, turn 3 on. Open the box.

    Now I have three bulbs. 1-warm,off 2-warm,on 3-cold,off

    If one was broken it would be cold and off so it would be easy to see.

    If we don't have broken bulbs we can even do it with 4 bulbs (leaving the 4th one as cold and off), do I get candy now?

    You have no eyes and no hands.

    Now what do you do?

    I'd smell which one is which...What? You don't have a smell like that? I can smell you and tell if your wife is cheating on you...Wha? Where are you going Sir...Sir!

    Even the most sane IT guy will reach the point where he just will stop giving a f**k about the job and start making fun of it.

  • (cs) in reply to Mr.'; Drop Database --
    Mr.'; Drop Database --:
    There are infinitely many shapes that will not fall through the hole. Any regular polygon with enough sides (at least 10 should do) would be unable to fall down the hole due to the lip on the cover, and you could even do silly things like cutting notches out of a circle.

    Actually, cutting a notch out of a circle is sufficient to make a shape which can fit through the hole, though arguably it'd make it harder to do so by accident.

  • nano (unregistered)
    You have no eyes and no hands.

    Now what do you do?

    Ooh, I know this one! Kick the interviewer in the shins, then use the ensuing scream to locate his head. Apply elbow to the jaw then forehead to nosebridge. Thusly subdued, drag his limp body over to the machine. Apply the half nelson chokehold using interlocked wrists, then position his head as best you can next to the exposed socket. When he's regained conciousness apply a firm pressure to his neck and ask him, "When is a fish not a fish?" before delivering the deathblow, choking his last breath out of him as you slam him headfirst into the shattered glass and electrical wiring.

  • Malc (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    easy - if you know which switch position is on and which is off, but a better answer than I can provide!

  • (cs) in reply to itsmo
    itsmo:
    uptaphunk:
    Franz Kafka:
    uptaphunk:
    I see a lot of people fiddling with semantics to these questions but what the important aspect of the question in the first place is the reaction the interviewee has to the problem - not necessarily the correct or "best" answer (if there is one).

    Someone who explodes and leaves the room flipping you or someone who starts hyperventilating and pulling their hair out is precisely the type of person you DO NOT want working for you.

    Or, more to the point, they are the type of person that doesn't want to work for you.

    Yes, I suppose so - but it serves as a quick indicator to someones mental state in times of stress.

    I seriously doubt that you would want someone who cannot handle a (possibly) unsolvable problem with acts of aggression and/or being on the verge of nervous breakdown would you?

    So rage, despair and compliance is the expected range of reactions to your silly questions? Maybe it would be more appropriate for the interviewee to register exasperation and annoyance that someone he/she doesn't even work for yet thinks it's a good idea to shove staff (or potential staff) around just because he can. If you need to test someone out to see if they can deal with (possibly) unsolvable problem(s), then your business must run into these regularly - so maybe there's something wrong with the way you run your business.

    Not sure how you got rage and despair out of my comments. The difficult question is there to see how someone handles a bit of stress. I would find it hard to believe that you live in a magical job that has no stress whatsoever. Good luck to you finding that job.

  • jimbob (unregistered)

    I asked my dad about this issue, he used to work in a foundry that made both manhole covers and the manhole socket that the sat on. The reason that they are round is that a round shape is the only shape you can cast in one piece., that once placed in its aperture can then be revolved so that it locks. The aperture had a hole in the side, the cover had a piece about 4 inches long and and inch wider then the rest of the lip. When you dropped the lid down the extended piece would drop down into the hole and then it could be revolved slightly to lock the manhole cover in place.

  • Gort (unregistered)

    I once did a search on microsoft inteview questions to kill some time. I learned that if you are going to google "man hole" it is advisable to ensure that safe search is turned on.

  • Ben (unregistered) in reply to Bot
    Bot:
    I always include riddles in my interviews. The point is not to find someone who can solve riddles, the point is to find someone who can think through problems, explain what they're thinking, and ask for help when they need it. I'm looking for someone who will think about the question for awhile, explain what they're stumped on, respond well to hints, and eventually understand how to get to the answer. People who fail are those that don't try at all, refuse to explain their thought process, or give up.

    Or they're the kind of people who fail to see why the question you asked is relevant to the job you are offering, and would rather you ask a question (or a riddle, or whatever), in which they can explain their thought processes on a relevant question.

    The last time I was asked a question about how I would estimate the number of ping pong balls needed to refloat a 10x10x3ft barge I walked out. Considering the job on offer was as a sysadmin, and not a salvage expert.

  • (cs) in reply to nano
    nano:
    You have no eyes and no hands.

    Now what do you do?

    Ooh, I know this one! Kick the interviewer in the shins, then use the ensuing scream to locate his head. Apply elbow to the jaw then forehead to nosebridge. Thusly subdued, drag his limp body over to the machine. Apply the half nelson chokehold using interlocked wrists, then position his head as best you can next to the exposed socket. When he's regained conciousness apply a firm pressure to his neck and ask him, "When is a fish not a fish?" before delivering the deathblow, choking his last breath out of him as you slam him headfirst into the shattered glass and electrical wiring.

    Did you get the job?

  • OBloodyhell (unregistered)

    are equally as irrelevant when determining whether someone would make a good programmer

    I have to say, this outlook on such is lame, shortsighted, and stupid.

    The point of such questions, if they are applied correctly and responses written out, is to show the way the person thinks and approaches a problem. Getting the correct answer in some cases may not even be relevant. Such questions ARE functional in a hiring environment, as a "first pass" triage mechanism used for identifying people who can actually reason and think and express their reasoning in words and numbers, from the more common variety of individuals.

    Designed properly, such a test would show your ability to read and comprehend a description of a problem, set up a possible solution, and identify any possible missing information.

    Gee, that doesn't sound like a useful skill set at all for programmers, does it?

    :-/

    Sure, you can elicit this in an interview that's taking up peoples' time, or you could possibly put such questions into a test for them to take prior to setting up interviews in the first place.

    If someone can't write out rational answers, applicable questions about possible ambiguities, etc., then they are probably enough of a dullard that they should be working for Oracle or Microsoft...

    And no, I've never formulated such a test, nor used one for hiring, but I have worked at places which did, and was privy to how the responses were used, much as I've described above.

    You could look at some of the responses and tell the people couldn't handle the concept of NUMBERs, much less programming.

  • OBloodyhell (unregistered)

    The last time I was asked a question about how I would estimate the number of ping pong balls needed to refloat a 10x10x3ft barge I walked out. Considering the job on offer was as a sysadmin, and not a salvage expert.

    Some of us don't assume our job is so finely delineated that we plan ahead on claiming "Sorry, not in my job description" when asked to do something requiring thinking ability.

    I approach it with the notion that the company is paying me for my ability to think, independently, and without endless supervision. Anything they assign me that isn't physically disgusting or onerous after that is pretty much up to them. Considering what I get paid, they'd be stupid to mis-assign me to lame, boring tasks for the most part which could be handled by someone making minimum wage, unless there is a component which requires thinking.

    I'm getting highly paid for my ability to think and reason -- So I usually don't assume ANYTHING involving intellect is outside my job description, including a seemingly oddball request like "how to refloat a barge with ping pong balls".

    But that's just me. YMMV.

    :-/

  • OBloodyhell (unregistered)

    Or not. One reader shared with me the story of his brainteaser interview.

    During a screening interview, I was asked how I would design a bike fit for someone visually impaired. I responded something to the effect of, "What, like, for blind people?", and she answered yes.

    I thought for a moment and then I responded, "Well.. a blind person riding a bike doesn't sound like a very safe idea, so I would make the bike stationary, maybe with a fan blowing in the person's face. He probably wouldn't even know the difference."

    She was speechless.

    Now, granted, he will not get the job. Despite the complete absurdity of the design request, and the complete practicality of his answer, the job will go to a candidate who manages to answer the question by designing an extremely overcomplicated solution for a completely non-existent problem. And that candidate will be the same person who designs their software.

    I can't answer for that company, but that response is smart and thoughtful. It shows lateral thinking and imagination, and would be exactly the sort of reason you might ask such an oddball question. I'd put this guy in the "extra plus" column for that answer.

    He instantly stepped beyond the bounds of the problem assigned and looked at it on a meta-level. Since most hacker humor involves meta-levels (Classic example: Holding up a white notecard with the statement, "This is Green" in blue pen), it shows the signs of a good programmer.

    That's not saying it's how the company used the question, but it points out that seemingly bizarre questions could be designed to show things that an engineering-style up-front-only analysis might not display.

    Further, a good set of these questions could be designed by an industrial psychologist to identify certain types of personalities -- if not with certainty but with some reliability, which, again, could be useful in hiring scenarios.

    So there are two specific reasons why your analysis does not hold water.

  • OBloodyhell (unregistered)

    we will notice that the whole point is that Microsoft realized that the puzzle solving exercise didn't work and is something of a waste of time.

    Which right there might tell you something.

    When the hell have you ever know M$ to get things right? Even in the next service pack?

    You're lucky if they EVER get it right.

    If M$ decided it didn't work, and was a waste of time, you have two options:

    1. Microsoft is correct.
    2. Microsoft did it wrong in the first place, interpreted the results wrong, and thus is completely wrong all around.

    Now: Given the history of M$ -- which way do you want to bet?

    :oP

    .

  • OBloodyhell (unregistered) in reply to nano
    nano:
    You have no eyes and no hands.

    Now what do you do?

    Ooh, I know this one! Kick the interviewer in the shins, then use the ensuing scream to locate his head. Apply elbow to the jaw then forehead to nosebridge. Thusly subdued, drag his limp body over to the machine.

    How? You gots no hands!!

    See? Ya gotta think things through. THAT is why these tests exist.

    Besides which, your solution is overcomplicated. You should just finish 'im/her with a throat jab and be done with it. Thanks to the scream, you'll even know you succeeded. (An ensuing, lone thump might only indicate you'd knocked them out).

    See?

    ;o)

    P.S., You related to Rube Goldberg?

    .

  • Ian Random (unregistered) in reply to akatherder

    I hear that all cranes have scales. So I guess you could theoretically suspend the plane in slings and add up the forces.

  • Sid (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    that won't make a difference. Upon opening the box you find 1 warm bulb, 1 broken bulb, and 1 cold bulb. Still can figure out which switch is which.

  • David Donahue (unregistered)

    I'm not so sure that asking riddles is all that bad a test of an applicant. It tests ability to think on one's feet and gives insight into the applicant's thinking processes. for example when asked; "How would you determine the weight of a Boeing 747?"

    I'd think that a great answer is "I'd ask Boeing", It's direct, it gets the job done and its probably the safest course since undoubtedly only Boeing would know all the many factors effect the weight like, the specific model, loaded weight of any passengers, cargo or fuel, etc. Depending on how accurate you need the weight to be you might need to know the cabin pressurization, the current altitude (gravity changes, etc.), water/ice buildup on the skin, etc.

    Of course, if you're interested in a quick approximate answer (Boeing might take weeks to return an answer) you could Google it. I did and the Boeing web site says the 747-400 domestic's Maximum Takeoff Weight is 833,000 lb (378,182 kg) so I'd go with that.

    As an interviewer I'd take any answer that gets the job done and doesn't show weird mental problems in the applicant. Failure on the question would be answers like; "I refuse to do ridiculous tests like this", "I'd use yo' Momma's scale", "I'd wait for the Lord to send me a sign and by the way have you accepted Jesus into your heart?" or "I'd go with what I always do, I'd guess either zero or a million pounds and plan on coming back and revisiting it later before we went into production".

    Anytime you give an applicant an opportunity to show he's smart and not a hidden nutjob is a good thing. Ask some sometime and be surprised how often it flushes crazy people out of the bushes.

    Of course, maybe i'm biased because I do enjoy solving these kind of riddles.

  • luptatum (unregistered) in reply to OBloodyhell
    OBloodyhell:
    The point of such questions, if they are applied correctly and responses written out, is to show the way the person thinks and approaches a problem. Getting the correct answer in some cases may not even be relevant. Such questions ARE functional in a hiring environment, as a "first pass" triage mechanism used for identifying people who can actually reason and think and express their reasoning in words and numbers, from the more common variety of individuals.

    Designed properly, such a test would show your ability to read and comprehend a description of a problem, set up a possible solution, and identify any possible missing information.

    You are failing to understand the point the anti-riddlers are trying to make.

    I think all the anti-riddlers agree that the intended purpose of the riddles is as you state. However as with everything, when things are put into practice, it usually falls well short of the intended purpose.

    If I understand correctly, the point the anti-riddlers are trying to make is that far too often, these riddles are not used in the manner they are intended, but rather as simple "ha-ha" gotchas or "look how dumb you are! you didn't even think of this simple solution!", which result in far too many otherwise perfectly qualifying candidates being outright dismissed.

    From the interviewee perspective, there is no good means of determining if the interviewer asking the riddles is intending to and will use the riddles like they should be used (as you describe above), or if the interviewer will use it to simply weed out the ones who can't figure out the "correct" answer (correct here being defined as the answer in the interviewer's mind, whether or not the interviewee provides equally valid or better answers).

    Frankly, if I were an employer, I'd be afraid of using riddles in an interview for the simple fact it would be difficult to defend against a lawsuit.

  • Anthony (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    If the exact question "Given an opaque box with three light bulbs inside and three switches outside, how would you determine which switch corresponded to which bulb if the box could be opened only once and only after all the switches were permanently set? "

    The simplest thing to do would be to set the switches, open the box, and see what switch was wired to what bulb socket.

    amirite?

  • Bob (unregistered)

    This reminds me of an Interview 2.0 question: "We're redesigning this floor of the building. How would you figure out how big to make the bathrooms and how many of which fixtures to put in?"

    Having supervised a build-out on an office building a few years before, in most areas in the U.S. there is exactly one right answer. You take the square footage and expected occupancy, and then either look it up in the local building code, and verify it with the municipal planning department. Then you put in at least that much stuff.

    However, that wasn't good enough for him. And everything I tried to provide a basis for a serious answer, he shot down: "How many people will be on this floor?" "It shouldn't matter." "Okay, I'll assume 200." "No, you can't do that."

    He was clearly dissatisfied with my approach - I think he had a particular answer in mind. And I didn't get the position.

    A while later, I worked with a guy who had previously worked for that company, and he said I was very lucky not to have worked there.

  • Beast of Argggg (unregistered) in reply to Mog

    What if there led bulbs

  • erin (unregistered) in reply to B92

    I have so many strenths, I can barely contain them.

  • John Reese (unregistered)

    Two solutions to weighing a 747:

    1. Roll the 747 across a series of bridges with successively smaller weight limits. When one of them collapses, take the weight limit and add 1/2 the difference between this one and the previous bridge.

    2. Build a large force sensor. Fly the 747 into the sensor at 400mph. Divide the resulting force by the velocity to get the mass. On Earth, that should be pretty close to the weight.

  • SippieCup (unregistered)

    alright, although this is (very) late,

    i figured i'd share how airplane maintenance peoples actually weigh airplanes.. as i find it quite cool.

    there are 3 hydraulic lifts, 1 under each wheel (if more wheels, then one under each i guess). then the plane is lifted about 1/4 of an inch off the ground and the pressure in the lifts tubes are used to calculate how much the plane weighs.

    And yeah, these lifts are TINY.

    Cameraphone Pics: http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/9721/img012gr3.jpg http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/1904/img011yx5.jpg http://img118.imageshack.us/img118/4412/img010wl9.jpg

    Note: I took these pictures because i am doing a research project for these companies

  • George (unregistered) in reply to B92

    An employee will give up / bang his head agains the brick wall (problem) depending on how motivated he is (becomes during the stay at your company). And that you should assess from the "personality" part of the interview, if you can't figure that out and use these kind of question - you're (at best) a mediocre interviewer.

    Granted that the most useless question in an interview would be the one you mentioned, these question follow...

  • (nodebb)

    thanks

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