The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

George:
TRWTF is CS Students:
TRWTF is You:
Fred:
My computer science courses seemed to be obsessed with binary logic -- how to squeeze two more bits out of the chip you're designing for the next cell phone -- rather than how to write software for normal businesses. Except for the esoteric theories, my professors were about the most computer illiterate people I ever worked with.
We had an assignment to write a "system" for a hypothetical customer-facing business. There were to be four data entry screens. (No output, just entry -- and it was a good thing there was no output, because there was no database.) Professor required each screen to be implemented as a single, separate Java class. 100% procedural code inside the class, of course. This was a Masters' level course.

Another whole course was on data warehousing (hey at least they'd heard of data). Not that we ever touched a DW. Just spent the whole semester discussing how lovely they would be, if we ever saw one.
Well, good. Now you're next step is to notify the Accreditation Council so that future prospective students won't waste their money by going there.
Where I went, the information was readily available, but the students were too arrogant to learn it. What's truly mind-boggling is that Computer Science classes were the only ones where every student thought he knew more about the topic matter than a tenured professor. All these folks got out of their 4 years was LAN parties and a worthless piece of paper.

+1

I cannot think of anything I learnt about writing software at uni, that is applicable today. Not a single thing.

Nor basic English skills either, it seems.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.

I wish that's what a CS degree meant. I learned more about proper coding after school than in it. And from observations of other students, they weren't doing any better.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Anon:
strictnein:
Code Slave:
amischiefr:
Mordred:
A true pioneer. Hell, if it weren't for senators and vice presidents, we wouldnt even have an internet.
FTFY
Well, Al Gore did "build" the internet, buy pushing the funding of infrastructure through the US congress and senate, etc. Note: I did not say "invent the internet" (which he has never claimed).

During my service in the United States Congress, I took the initiative in creating the Internet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Gore#Second_presidential_run_.282000.29
And sure, argue semantics about whether or not create = invent, but Gore did neither.

There were 300,000 computers on the Internet in 1990, 10 million by 1996... Al Gore was a huge early champion of the Internet, and really deserves some respect from us IT people... (not talking politics... doesn't matter what his politics are - he was the biggest proponent of the Internet in Congress in the 80s and 90s...)

During that unfortunate interview, he was just touting some of his actual accomplishments...

The problem is the way he said it. If he had said that he helped lay the foundation for what would become the Internet we know today, then he wouldn't have gotten as much (well-deserved) ridicule.

boog · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

George:
It's the client's own fault if they knowingly hire someone incapable of doing the job. He didn't bullshit his way into anything, did he?

This is true, and no, it doesn't sound like Brian F bullshat his way in.

However, he did convince himself that he was ready to start on the project right away (or shortly after reading a 30-minute "getting started" guide on SQL). Clearly he should have spent a little more time in the research phase. If "research" meant building a throwaway system, he should have done so before starting on the client's implementation.

Spending more time on research is probably one of many lessons that Brian F learned from this project. Or so I would hope.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

DaveK:
Joe:
Article:
when judging others work, I shouldn't be the one to throw the first stone.
No, don't throw the first stone. Post it to TDWTF
That would be throwing the frist stone.

At himself.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Most of it is forgivable due to ignorance, but I simply can't imagine how anyone could think creating a new table for each user is a sensible or logical approach - this very act shows that the author doesn't have the necessary antipathy towards redundancy, let the alone self reflection and research ability to make a decent programmer. Some people are simply not cut out to be programmers. Sorry, but where ever he is now regardless of his lessons learned, I am thankful I am not.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

pjt33:
Doesn't sound like they're actually learning computer science. I read a *real* CS degree and graduated knowing six normal forms but no SQL syntax.

Now think about this WTF: The guy knew neither normal forms nor SQL syntax. Which one was the problem here? Not the syntax; he picked it up from his book, obviously. But proper DB design is not so easy to learn from a book (especially not a "30 minute get started guide"). So you're complaining that your university taught you the difficult things and omitted some of the trivial stuff (that any competent programmer should be able to do by themselves, and will need to do again and again, with every new language they encounter)?

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Yowza:
Kind of off topic, but is anyone liking the ChangeVision meditating babe?

Yes! It kind of looks like her top is showing something through, but it's just shadows (and imagination).

[image]

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

He actually said "i took the initiative of creating the internet".. which is easily comparable to "I invented the internet". It was silly it was so hyped up when it was clear what he meant, but you can't run around pretending that never happened. "I took the intiative of creating the internet" sure sounds like claiming you initiated it's creation.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

JamesQMurphy:
boog:
It's disturbing how so many comments suggest that "making mistakes" is the best way to learn. If your method of learning new technology is to crash and burn and get it right the second time around, I don't think I'd ever want to hire you.
"Wise men learn by other men's mistakes, fools by their own."

"Build one to throw away."

-- Fred Brooks, The Mythical Man-Month

"If you plan to throw one away, you will throw away two." -- Craig Zerouni

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Love it! It's nice to have something funny on here today and I admire your honesty!!! :o)

I hope you didn't go into too many details about this on your CV though!

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Heck yeah man, time to hit it up yo.

total-privacy.edu.tc

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

Trying to mean the least possible offense i wanted to shake my head and laugh at you!

I've yet to meet a single comp sci degree student who could code their way out of wet paper sack straight off the bat. Sure, they usually have the skill set to learn quickly but they, like everyone else, suck at programming when they first enter the job market.

I've had upwards of 20 of the little buggers from all different universities come through here each leaving their own signature let's call it "code", which has taken many a man hour to convince them is wrong and show them a better way.

The painful part is, having a degree they think they know better.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Jesus! From the general tone of many comments on here, I can't fathom what type of "pseudo-employment" many of you find yourselves in.

You didn't learn many useful programming skills during your university education?

You've never used math above an 8th grade level???

People without proper training are even remotely qualified for your position??

boog · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Veldang:
I've yet to meet a single comp sci degree student who could code their way out of wet paper sack straight off the bat. Sure, they usually have the skill set to learn quickly but they, like everyone else, suck at programming when they first enter the job market.
I've had upwards of 20 of the little buggers from all different universities come through here each leaving their own signature let's call it "code", which has taken many a man hour to convince them is wrong and show them a better way.

The painful part is, having a degree they think they know better.

I know many developers who were fine coders immediately after graduation, and who never acted like having a degree meant they knew better.

The fact that you haven't worked with anyone like that seems to indicate a faulty hiring process at your company more than anything else. That or a very unfortunate pool of applicants.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

CARTX reminds me of one project I worked on. They were supposedly professional. It was in they early day of the internet, the company I was working on were renting me out since I had the most internet experience. It was a ambitious web, travel website if I recall correctly. But on the first week I saw a problem. Every time a new type of content was designed, a table had to be created. Even though I was a bit of a rookie, I immediately saw the WTF.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Heh I still remember some of my old days coding, it was not that bad as this. I can clearly remember in highschool when I was trying to loop over results from a table in php.. when I managed to do that I was really happy so I danced around.. There was unfortunately a teacher watching.. so yeah that was very awkward when I saw him (which was after a few seconds thankfully.. so he was more wondering what the heck I was doing).

My code back then was not the best nor clean. But I did improve a lot and people learn from experience and mistakes made by themselves and others.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

boog:
Veldang:
I've yet to meet a single comp sci degree student who could code their way out of wet paper sack straight off the bat. Sure, they usually have the skill set to learn quickly but they, like everyone else, suck at programming when they first enter the job market.
I've had upwards of 20 of the little buggers from all different universities come through here each leaving their own signature let's call it "code", which has taken many a man hour to convince them is wrong and show them a better way.

The painful part is, having a degree they think they know better.
I know many developers who were fine coders immediately after graduation, and who never acted like having a degree meant they knew better.

The fact that you haven't worked with anyone like that seems to indicate a faulty hiring process at your company more than anything else. That or a very unfortunate pool of applicants.

Probably the hiring process, though the pool is none too fresh. Only had a couple of people with any talent over the years.

For the record, i'm a grad student myself, i have no problems with the core skills and knowledge of computers and their systems it imparts. However, good coders it does not make. The people i've seen coming from university with good coding skills were all self taught or working freelance jobs during their uni time before finally coming to full time work.

The ones that had just learnt directly from university and no outside initiative... well i already said what i think of them :P

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

This reminds me of my first self-project when I started PHP. I'd consider submitting it to WTF, but I'd known PHP and MySQL for all of a week, and I was 13, and Alex doesn't post those

So, to put it simply, I made my own forum software, and this is version 1. I didn't know sessions existed. Everything was stored in cookies. Even if they were an admin or not. Whether or not they were an admin was stored in a hidden form on the signup page. I didn't know about database normalization, or even auto-increment. I had a column in my site_information table to keep track of how many topic there were. Fetched the last post to get the next Post ID and so on.

I didn't think of putting user ID's in the user profile page, so I created a whole folder and created scripts for each user on the fly when they signed up. SQL Injection? No idea what that was? Hashing? What's that? Having two SQL query results in the same script? What are you smoking? (My most embarrassing mistake to date). What about BBCode? I had [b][i][u]... in the form of str_replace. Regular Expressions were non-existant.

Suffice to say I found another person who was learning PHP (Who still knew more than me) to show me his code (He was also working on a forum) and fixed up most of those mistakes in version 2. However, a few still remained

No Regular Expression No Hashing No SQL Protection No XSS Protection No Stripping HTML No validating the images they posted as user pictures.

Suffice to say I learned a lot about alot in the first couple months of learning PHP

Mark:
Most of it is forgivable due to ignorance, but I simply can't imagine how anyone could think creating a new table for each user is a sensible or logical approach - this very act shows that the author doesn't have the necessary antipathy towards redundancy, let the alone self reflection and research ability to make a decent programmer. Some people are simply not cut out to be programmers. Sorry, but where ever he is now regardless of his lessons learned, I am thankful I am not.

Even about 2 years into PHP when I first thought of shopping carts, creating new tables was my first idea. I dismissed it as stupid and inefficient, but it wasn't until someone else pointed out how it SHOULD work that I actually had any other ideas. I can understand how someone who knows nothing about PHP and SQL can make that mistake. I probably would have done worse had I started like that.

This story does have a happy ending. It took me five years of self-teaching, along with a TAFE course (Australian thing) in programming (taught me OOP, MVC, Normalization and a bunch of other good practices, even if it was only 6 months) till I considered myself good enough to look for a job. And I think I'm not as bad as I could be. However, I'm sure I'll be submitting a confession here in the next few years, as I was hired a week after their last programmer left, so I'll still be learning on my own. It's going to be an interesting year

boog · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Veldang:
The people i've seen coming from university with good coding skills were all self taught or working freelance jobs during their uni time before finally coming to full time work.
The ones that had just learnt directly from university and no outside initiative... well i already said what i think of them :P

Fair enough; I can accept that.

I do recall being annoyed by fellow CS students who had never seen any programming language before attending university, or worse yet could hardly type. It makes it difficult for brighter students to move forward and learn new material when the prof has to stop and explain to Scooter for the fifth time that the last example used a variable named "x" and now we're looking at a new example so it's okay to use a new variable named "y".

While I'd recommend getting a degree over nothing at all, if I have one complaint it's that too many of the people described above actually make it to graduation (and apparently give the rest of us a bad name).

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

boog:
Veldang:
The people i've seen coming from university with good coding skills were all self taught or working freelance jobs during their uni time before finally coming to full time work.
The ones that had just learnt directly from university and no outside initiative... well i already said what i think of them :P
Fair enough; I can accept that.

I do recall being annoyed by fellow CS students who had never seen any programming language before attending university, or worse yet could hardly type. It makes it difficult for brighter students to move forward and learn new material when the prof has to stop and explain to Scooter for the fifth time that the last example used a variable named "x" and now we're looking at a new example so it's okay to use a new variable named "y".

While I'd recommend getting a degree over nothing at all, if I have one complaint it's that too many of the people described above actually make it to graduation (and apparently give the rest of us a bad name).

HAHAHA, yeah my class with filled with "scooters". The problems start when the universities are getting mostly those types applying and thus getting incredibly shocking failure rates. To counter this they lessen the work load and TADA! lots of Scooters now have IT/CS degrees!

MarkJ · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

ametblopet:
I have a CS Degree and I have to generally agree with you. I'm a reasonable programmer with some natural ability and had already learnt to self teach before going to university. Unfortunately a few too many on the course I did had no such talent. Some were really talented, but some of those that weren't persisted. Even some of those who were talented did succumb to doctrine.
I despise those in the latter category who take everything taught to them at university as an absolute and a golden hammer. I've always appreciated that I will never know enough in any new programming endeavour, will have to continuously study/experiment/research and learn through my life to continue as a good programmer. People who come out of university and are convinced they know it all solely because of the certificate are just meh. Dismiss them.

+1 to that. I've bought more programming and CS textbooks after I got out of college than I ever bought when I was in college.

Captain Oblivious · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

b2thS:
Seriously, when is the last time you calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function? What purpose does that server the folks that are going to be writing BUSINESS software?

The last time I calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function was... just a few minutes ago. I computed a moment generating function by applying the MGF transform on a continuous function.

What purpose does it serve the folks writing business software? That depends. Around here, in the Actuarial and Enterprise Risk Management fields, we use a lot of calculus and statistics to quantify risk. You know, what businesses are: risks. We write our own risk management tools, with which we make informed business decisions.

Of course, this is why I am in management, and you are a lowly grunt with no decision making power. Your ignorant arrogance is impressive, but ignorance does not pay well.

AndyCanfield · 2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Just a few months ago I had a system written in FileMaker (IWP) and found that FM was confused by the browser back button. The quick fix was a start-up page that put you in a new window without any buttons. No buttons, no back button, no problem. The final fix was to re-write it in PHP.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Neil:
It wasn't for a shopping cart, but I once worked around the URL-based tracking problem by turning everything into a POST request, so there were no links, everything was actually done via <input type="image">. Of course, the real WTF was designing the thing in FrontPage in the first place.

Same here when I first code for ASP.NET.

And note it's what horrifies me with the "Firefox image buttons won't post back for version <= 1.0.0.3" bug...

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Oh my god... I am so confused...

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Sock Puppet 5:
Shirley you could have found an example of how to do this the right way.

And don't call me Shirley.

2011-01-12 Reply Admin

Oh god, every paragraph it gets a little bit worse.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Kudos for being brave enough to admit your mistakes.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Captain Oblivious:
b2thS:
Seriously, when is the last time you calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function? What purpose does that server the folks that are going to be writing BUSINESS software?

The last time I calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function was... just a few minutes ago. I computed a moment generating function by applying the MGF transform on a continuous function.

What purpose does it serve the folks writing business software? That depends. Around here, in the Actuarial and Enterprise Risk Management fields, we use a lot of calculus and statistics to quantify risk. You know, what businesses are: risks. We write our own risk management tools, with which we make informed business decisions.

Of course, this is why I am in management, and you are a lowly grunt with no decision making power. Your ignorant arrogance is impressive, but ignorance does not pay well.

Talk about arrogance ...

Being able to make decisions is not everything in life. Money is not as well.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Sadly CS graduates seem to generate more WTFery than 'uneducated morons'. We end up having to unteach them all the academic crap before we can actually get down to commercially viable development.

RogerWilco · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

Agreed. I really don't understand what people think when they take on tasks like the one described without any formal or even informal education. But CS doesn't always learn you to code properly, as it's not about learning you to program, but about the art of Computer Science, things like database theory, compiler construction, language semantics, software engineering.

But the minimum I would expect someone to do, when taking on any task like this, is to get a book or other means of learning. A proper programming course would be better.

As for the story, even 10 years ago, there was plenty information on the internet not to have made mistakes like this with just a couple of minutes of browsing. Having taught myself PHP and MySQL in the late nineties, mainly from internet resources, it would have been easy to avoid the mistakes in the article by spending an hour or two online.

I've had a formal education (Physics/CS) and my biggest problem with the article is that apparently the story teller is unable to educate himself properly for the task at hand. I know that both being self taught or having a formal education can work so that's not the problem. What's my problem with the story, is the attitude of either being oblivious that you have large gaps in your knowledge, or ignoring it and going ahead anyway. That makes me cringe.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

boog:
Still, I have a hard time accepting a strategy of learning where the goal is to make mistakes, especially when the customer is paying for it ...

Hey, if you can get the customer to pay you to learn from your mistakes, more power to ya!

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Someone who can't be bothered to login from work:
TRWTF is You:
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons..

I, the uneducated moron, spend a lot of my time fixing the awful code my Computer Science graduate inferior makes.

As far as I can tell 3 years of CompSci at University just gives them lots of theoretical knowledge - which they utterly fail to implement - and fuck all practical experience.

And no, I do not just think he's doing it wrong, he is. I am collecting his code for submission here when I finally get pissed off and quit.

You're both wrong. There is no substitute for real world experience but a good education does give you a good head start provided you actually get one.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

foo:
pjt33:
Doesn't sound like they're actually learning computer science. I read a *real* CS degree and graduated knowing six normal forms but no SQL syntax.
Now think about this WTF: The guy knew neither normal forms nor SQL syntax. Which one was the problem here? Not the syntax; he picked it up from his book, obviously. But proper DB design is not so easy to learn from a book (especially not a "30 minute get started guide"). So you're complaining that your university taught you the difficult things and omitted some of the trivial stuff (that any competent programmer should be able to do by themselves, and will need to do again and again, with every new language they encounter)?

Not at all. I'm complaining about describing a course which teaches basic PHP and SQL as "computer science".

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.

I suppose you've never done one of those, did you? Reality is, you spend 4 years learning basic syntax of several programming languages from people who've written their last line of real code long before they started teaching and some algorithm and hardware trivia half of which is completely bogus. And I'm talking about one of the better universities out there.

When you hire someone with a fresh CS degree, you have to dump him head first into the biggest pile of crap code you can find telling him to fix it. If there's any hope for him, he'll realize how painful it is to deal with crap and he'll do his best to write good code. If there's no visible improvement in the pile of crap after some time, there's simply no hope for him.

Note: I'm a soon-to-graduate CS student who started coding back in elementary school in 1997 and attended tech high school. I've also contributed to several open source projects so I've already had my share of others' crap code to fix.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Grammer Nazi:
George:
TRWTF is CS Students:
TRWTF is You:
Fred:
My computer science courses seemed to be obsessed with binary logic -- how to squeeze two more bits out of the chip you're designing for the next cell phone -- rather than how to write software for normal businesses. Except for the esoteric theories, my professors were about the most computer illiterate people I ever worked with.
We had an assignment to write a "system" for a hypothetical customer-facing business. There were to be four data entry screens. (No output, just entry -- and it was a good thing there was no output, because there was no database.) Professor required each screen to be implemented as a single, separate Java class. 100% procedural code inside the class, of course. This was a Masters' level course.

Another whole course was on data warehousing (hey at least they'd heard of data). Not that we ever touched a DW. Just spent the whole semester discussing how lovely they would be, if we ever saw one.
Well, good. Now you're next step is to notify the Accreditation Council so that future prospective students won't waste their money by going there.
Where I went, the information was readily available, but the students were too arrogant to learn it. What's truly mind-boggling is that Computer Science classes were the only ones where every student thought he knew more about the topic matter than a tenured professor. All these folks got out of their 4 years was LAN parties and a worthless piece of paper.

+1

I cannot think of anything I learnt about writing software at uni, that is applicable today. Not a single thing.
Nor basic English skills either, it seems.

Well no. It wasn't an English course.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

CameByItHonestly:
The number of WTF's I've seen from comp sci degree holding know-it-alls is staggering. I'm not even talking "creative" development, but some serious base level stuff, like complete ignorance of constructors, secret-decoder ring "encryption" schemes, and pretty much anything to do with OO design and development. And then there are the graduates who think because they learned it in school it must be applied to everything. But I'm just an uneducated moron, so don't take it from me.

I had to explain to a comp sci graduate that variables are not remembered across web pages and you had to use this thing called a session, and yes, you had to start and end sessions on every request. It literally took 20 min for that information to sink in. Maybe he had trouble understanding because I'm not a professor of "I've Never Programmed in the Real World".

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
disgruntled:
TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

Wait... which university did YOU go to? The ones I've gone to, and heard of, are no where near the caliber in which you mention. It's mostly: Here is a web page; here is Frontpage; ...; congrats, you get an A! Good luck!
They created that degree program "Information Systems" for you, since your too dumb for college-level mathematics...kind of like Physics for Art Majors.

(insert ellipsis here)

frits · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Code Slave:
amischiefr:
Mordred:
A true pioneer. Hell, if it weren't for senators and vice presidents, we wouldnt even have an internet.
FTFY
Well, Al Gore did "build" the internet, buy pushing the funding of infrastructure through the US congress and senate, etc. Note: I did not say "invent the internet" (which he has never claimed).

So can I tell my wife I "mowed" the lawn, even though I actually paid migrant workers to do it?

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

My Name:
Captain Oblivious:
b2thS:
Seriously, when is the last time you calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function? What purpose does that server the folks that are going to be writing BUSINESS software?

The last time I calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function was... just a few minutes ago. I computed a moment generating function by applying the MGF transform on a continuous function.

What purpose does it serve the folks writing business software? That depends. Around here, in the Actuarial and Enterprise Risk Management fields, we use a lot of calculus and statistics to quantify risk. You know, what businesses are: risks. We write our own risk management tools, with which we make informed business decisions.

Of course, this is why I am an artful troll, and you are the idiot biting on it. Your ignorant arrogance is impressive, but ignorance does not pay well.

Talk about arrogance ...

Being able to make decisions is not everything in life. Money is not as well.

FTFY

captcha: dignissim - what we should perhaps be treating each other with a bit more of?

frits · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

You're clearly still in school...or a professor.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

frits:
TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

You're clearly still in school...or a professor.

Or maybe a troll? Judging by numerous responses, it worked.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is Trolls:
frits:
TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

You're clearly still in school...or a professor.

Or maybe a troll? Judging by numerous responses, it worked.

Doncha love the internet? If you have an original thought or disagree with someone, your automatically a troll! This is the kind of hogwash that us hackey moms despise.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is Trolls:
frits:
TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

You're clearly still in school...or a professor.

Or maybe a troll? Judging by numerous responses, it worked.

Who hasn't trolled something like this?

frits · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Captain Oblivious:
b2thS:
Seriously, when is the last time you calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function? What purpose does that server the folks that are going to be writing BUSINESS software?

The last time I calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function was... just a few minutes ago. I computed a moment generating function by applying the MGF transform on a continuous function.

What purpose does it serve the folks writing business software? That depends. Around here, in the Actuarial and Enterprise Risk Management fields, we use a lot of calculus and statistics to quantify risk. You know, what businesses are: risks. We write our own risk management tools, with which we make informed business decisions.

Of course, this is why I am in management, and you are a lowly grunt with no decision making power. Your ignorant arrogance is impressive, but ignorance does not pay well.

I think you represent a very small percentage of managers. Most managers I've meet have very little technical knowledge of any sort and avoid making decisions until forced into a corner. When they finally do make a decision, there is very little logic to support it, but pointing this out certainly does not put you in their good favors.

frits · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

TRWTF is Trolls:
frits:
TRWTF is You:
Pete:
I know sometimes I look back at old code and think who wrote this crap then realize it was me. The thing with programming is you are always learning and starting with hideous mistakes makes you learn better ways quickly.
That's why most universities offer a computer science degree. You spend four years learning how to code properly so that when you hit the workforce you can undo the damage of uneducated morons.
Kudos to the submitter for admitting his mistake, but not to all the jackwagons advocating them.

You're clearly still in school...or a professor.

Or maybe a troll? Judging by numerous responses, it worked.

Well, that's always a possibility on the internet.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Code Slave:
amischiefr:
Mordred:
A true pioneer. Hell, if it weren't for senators and vice presidents, we wouldnt even have an internet.
FTFY
Well, Al Gore did "build" the internet, buy pushing the funding of infrastructure through the US congress and senate, etc. Note: I did not say "invent the internet" (which he has never claimed).

Right, and Sarah Palin never said she could see Russia from her house. That was a skit on Saturday Night Live. However, both are funny or frustrating to a set of people.

boog · 2011-01-13 Reply Admin

Captain Oblivious:
b2thS:
Seriously, when is the last time you calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function? What purpose does that server the folks that are going to be writing BUSINESS software?

The last time I calculated a derivative or integrated a continuous function was... just a few minutes ago. I computed a moment generating function by applying the MGF transform on a continuous function.

What purpose does it serve the folks writing business software? That depends. Around here, in the Actuarial and Enterprise Risk Management fields, we use a lot of calculus and statistics to quantify risk. You know, what businesses are: risks. We write our own risk management tools, with which we make informed business decisions.

So far, you've written a wonderful reply that successfully and effectively refutes the GP's suggestion that calculus is irrelevant to business software.

Captain Oblivious:
Of course, this is why I am in management, and you are a lowly grunt with no decision making power. Your ignorant arrogance is impressive, but ignorance does not pay well.

But then you had to go and let your ego ruin it. Pity.

2011-01-13 Reply Admin

anon:
Code Slave:
amischiefr:
Mordred:
A true pioneer. Hell, if it weren't for senators and vice presidents, we wouldnt even have an internet.
FTFY
Well, Al Gore did "build" the internet, buy pushing the funding of infrastructure through the US congress and senate, etc. Note: I did not say "invent the internet" (which he has never claimed).

Right, and Sarah Palin never said she could see Russia from her house. That was a skit on Saturday Night Live. However, both are funny or frustrating to a set of people.

Haven't you idiots ever heard of snopes.com? I'm pretty sure I'm going to strangle you all if this conversation continues.

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