• Zaratustra (unregistered)

    How can you understand, Bobby? You're a Chicken, not a Pig.

  • BlackBart (unregistered) in reply to hoodaticus
    hoodaticus:
    Flat files are fine for serializing a table. They are certainly better than XML for that purpose.

    "Flat files" in the AS/400 context is not the same as the common vernacular, meaning unstructured blob in the file system. On the AS/400 a Flat File IS the database (only minimally accessible with SQL). It performs quite well if you are up to the self-flagellation of accessing it via RPG.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flat_file#Flat_files

  • (cs)

    This article would have been better if Remy had replaced the name Jonathan with the name Randolph. Oh well. Maybe next year...

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to trtrwtf
    trtrwtf:
    Pompous? Moi? Mais non...

    Yeah, I figured you were probably indulging in a bit of scenery-chewing, just for effect. But I've seen this over and over on this site - "I wouldn't take that kind of stuff! I'd leave! In a huff! Or if I couldn't find a huff, in a cloud of dust, or a taxi!" - and it's getting a little old. I guess as a knee-jerk reflex it's better than Darth Whatever ("I have left in your huff... pray I do not leave in it any further") but not by much.

    I LOLed... I too have been in situations like this, however rather than leaving in a huff, I just update the old CV, call a few contacts and see how the market is doing. If it sucks (i.e. around xmas time), I buckle down for a couple of months and try again later.

    Note that I have only ever done this once, and the environment was very toxic (terrible architecture, terrible boss, deadlines long past, abusive CTO & CIO, etc., etc.). I actually ended up having to hold out for several months because the market was so bad, and even when I did leave, there was no dramatic "I QUIT!"...

    ... so basically what I'm saying is I'm a cautious pussy... :)

  • hewhocutsdown (unregistered) in reply to Jon

    Amen to that.

  • trtrwtf (unregistered) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:

    Note that I have only ever done this once, and the environment was very toxic (terrible architecture, terrible boss, deadlines long past, abusive CTO & CIO, etc., etc.). I actually ended up having to hold out for several months because the market was so bad, and even when I did leave, there was no dramatic "I QUIT!"...

    ... so basically what I'm saying is I'm a cautious pussy... :)

    ... and one who keeps working. This is a good thing. :)

  • (cs)

    He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken!

  • (cs) in reply to BlackBart
    BlackBart:
    castlerobber:
    The AS/400 has built-in relational database capabilities, as well as XML opcodes in ILE RPG. Flat files? There's TRWTF.

    I once worked for a company who loved the "Flat Files" of the AS400. I was prohibited from using that newfangled SQL. It doesn't surprise me that there are AS/400 managers who could make mincemeat out of something so simple as converting something to XML.

    I was out of there in a short time.

    Well, Remy forgot to mention an important detail in his version (you can see it in the original in the source) - the AS/400 stuff was COMING IN, and they got RID of the machine and wanted Enterprisey-PC-Software-compatible XML instead.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to Sylver
    Sylver:
    The first WTF is that Bobby is spineless.

    Day One, he could have insisted to be treated in a manner befitting of a professional.

    ... the worst that could have happened was being fired and collecting the 1 month penalty.

    I love it when people say, "I wouldn't have stood for this! I would have quit on the spot!"

    Do you have a family to support? Or a mortgage or rent to pay? Personally, I've developed a number of expensive habits, like eating and having a roof over my head. It would take VERY extreme circumstances for me to quit a job without having another job lined up first. Maybe I could walk out and find another job within a couple of weeks. I once decided to look for a new job and got one in less than 24 hours. Or maybe not. The last time I decided to look for a new job it took six months.

    Sure, I could live off of my savings for a while. But I was hoping to use those savings plus the income they earn to fund my retirement someday. Every day I live off of savings takes 2 or 3 days off my retirement.

    I suppose if you're single and living in your parents' basement and the only reason you need an income is to buy new video games, than you can walk out of a job the instant someone annoys you. For those of us with responsibilities and bills, it's not so easy.

  • (cs) in reply to Eric
    Eric:
    I don't think "Flight of the Valkyries" is what the author thinks it is...

    Oh, I do. It scares the hell out of the chickens.

    Besides, would it be the end of the world (apocalypse if you will) if it wasn't?

  • Jay (unregistered)

    Oh and by the way ... While it's no doubt very emotionally satisfying to scream "I don't have to take this [fill in the blank based on your level of frustration]! I quit!", this is not generally the best plan. You never know when you will run into some of these same people again.

    I have found fairly often that I have started a new job and there has been someone working there whom I worked with on a previous job.

    I once worked at ... let me just call it company A. I left there to work for company B. Some time later I moved to company C. Then company C bought company A. I was now regularly working with many of the people I had worked with at A. Imagine if I had left in a blaze of screaming about everyone's stupidity.

    Whenever I leave a job, no matter how unpleasant the circumstances that made me leave, I always write a polite resignation letter with some bland reason like "left to take advantage of better oppportunities". It avoids burning bridges.

  • (cs) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    Oh and by the way ... While it's no doubt very emotionally satisfying to scream "I don't have to take this [fill in the blank based on your level of frustration]! I quit!", this is not generally the best plan. You never know when you will run into some of these same people again.

    I have found fairly often that I have started a new job and there has been someone working there whom I worked with on a previous job.

    I once worked at ... let me just call it company A. I left there to work for company B. Some time later I moved to company C. Then company C bought company A. I was now regularly working with many of the people I had worked with at A. Imagine if I had left in a blaze of screaming about everyone's stupidity.

    Whenever I leave a job, no matter how unpleasant the circumstances that made me leave, I always write a polite resignation letter with some bland reason like "left to take advantage of better oppportunities". It avoids burning bridges.

    ... and to those who say: "Plenty more fish in the sea," I would reply, "Too bad you ain't got any bait." (Quote from The Simpsons, I believe.)

  • (cs) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    Sylver:
    The first WTF is that Bobby is spineless.

    Day One, he could have insisted to be treated in a manner befitting of a professional.

    ... the worst that could have happened was being fired and collecting the 1 month penalty.

    I love it when people say, "I wouldn't have stood for this! I would have quit on the spot!"

    Do you have a family to support? Or a mortgage or rent to pay? Personally, I've developed a number of expensive habits, like eating and having a roof over my head. It would take VERY extreme circumstances for me to quit a job without having another job lined up first. Maybe I could walk out and find another job within a couple of weeks. I once decided to look for a new job and got one in less than 24 hours. Or maybe not. The last time I decided to look for a new job it took six months.

    Sure, I could live off of my savings for a while. But I was hoping to use those savings plus the income they earn to fund my retirement someday. Every day I live off of savings takes 2 or 3 days off my retirement.

    I suppose if you're single and living in your parents' basement and the only reason you need an income is to buy new video games, than you can walk out of a job the instant someone annoys you. For those of us with responsibilities and bills, it's not so easy.

    Excellent comment. I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).

  • warhead (unregistered) in reply to Vilx-
    Article:
    Flight of the Valkyries
    That would be 'Ride of the Valkyries'.

    Captcha: luptatum - One of Wagners less known pieces.

  • Herby (unregistered)

    Just remember: Mortimer was Walt Disney's original name for Mickey Mouse. Why I just thought of that is beyond me, but given the article, it seems to fit in some way.

  • (cs) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    Oh and by the way ... While it's no doubt very emotionally satisfying to scream "I don't have to take this [fill in the blank based on your level of frustration]! I quit!", this is not generally the best plan. You never know when you will run into some of these same people again. <snip>

    Whenever I leave a job, no matter how unpleasant the circumstances that made me leave, I always write a polite resignation letter with some bland reason like "left to take advantage of better oppportunities". It avoids burning bridges.

    Still, people like Mortimer seem to have no problem treating their subordinates so harshly, ignoring that some day their roles may be reversed and such abuse might similarly combust catwalks.

    The real world sucks, by the way.

  • (cs) in reply to John Santos
    no idea how to interact with anyone on a professional level, and took saying "Good morning" as an insult (I wish I were kidding about this last one, but it is quite true ... a long story by itself!).

    I've got time, I'd like to hear it.

  • Larrik (unregistered) in reply to Buck

    I did use ILE RPG. The problem is that every job interviewer afterwards needs to look up what the hell it is, and then they dismiss it as irrelevant experience.

    I could stay in an RPG career, but it's really not feasible...

  • Andrew (unregistered) in reply to Sylver
    Sylver:
    Besides the obvious WTF, there are quite a few WTFs on Bobby's side as well.

    The first WTF is that Bobby is spineless.

    Day One, he could have insisted to be treated in a manner befitting of a professional.

    Customer or not, Bobby didn't have to take the abuse. If he had stood up for himself then, the worst that could have happened was being fired and collecting the 1 month penalty.

    And Mortimer probably didn't have the authority to fire him - he didn't have enough authority to prevent the hiring process despite knowing about it.

    Had he stood by his gun right from the first minute, Mortimer would never have dared try to pull even a fraction of that crap.

    The second WTF is that Bobby went ahead and coded a solution for one month without actually understanding the specs or making real efforts to clear up the confusions.

    The third WTF is that they are obviously using test cases and that it didn't occur to Bobby to get a firm agreement on the exact test cases that would be used.

    Man makes a good case. Bobby set a precedent for being treated unprofessionally. Sure, the "I see the waste of my budget has arrived" you could probably walk off at first (bad day, someone?), but there is no tolerating having a QA report being thrown at you, or taking lip when you've coded to a spec that someone else has provided. (Yeah, coding to an incomplete spec in itself is the route to failure, but thats another story).

    Simple truth is, you can't go through life thinking you won't run into people like Mortimer (guy in the story is obviously a dick), but you need to be able to handle things, or at least manage them to an acceptable level.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to boog
    boog:
    Jay:
    Oh and by the way ... While it's no doubt very emotionally satisfying to scream "I don't have to take this [fill in the blank based on your level of frustration]! I quit!", this is not generally the best plan. You never know when you will run into some of these same people again. <snip>

    Whenever I leave a job, no matter how unpleasant the circumstances that made me leave, I always write a polite resignation letter with some bland reason like "left to take advantage of better oppportunities". It avoids burning bridges.

    Still, people like Mortimer seem to have no problem treating their subordinates so harshly, ignoring that some day their roles may be reversed and such abuse might similarly combust catwalks.

    The real world sucks, by the way.

    Agreed... In fact it's people like this that usually get promoted because everyone around them either quits or tolerates their behavior because they don't want confrontation/burn bridges. Though they eventually hit a ceiling because eventually a some individuals put a stop to it (i.e. board of directors, although I've seen someone with borderline personality disorder and prone to explosive outbursts as well as paranoid dilusions be a CEO of a large firm for many, many years, just out of fear of confrontation).

  • darkmage0707077 (unregistered) in reply to Nagesh
    Nagesh:
    Excellent comment. I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).
    Yes, in American Middle- and Upper-class society, it is expected that at some point the children WILL move out of their parents' house and find a living place of their own. This is seen as a right of passage, to prove that said children can take care of themselves and handle the same responsibilities their parents were able to (taxes, bills, rent, etc), which also helps reassure some parents that the child(ren) can probably take care of THEM in their old age, as well.

    This isn't to say that those children don't eventually take over the parents' household once said parents become incapable of taking care of themselves; some American children (a growing number, in fact) move back in with their parents before that point, in order to save money and/or to be closer to friends and family. But that right of passage is still very commonly expected to occur at SOME point.

    In American Lower-class society, it is somewhat less common and not expected as much, but it's still considered a mark of respect (if not prestige) amongst peers to be able to move out on one's own in this way.

    Hope that helped the international readers somewhat!

    Captcha: tego...out on one's own into the world, with nobody else to help them should they fail. A great test of courage and skill!

  • (cs) in reply to Nagesh
    I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).

    In North America, living with your parents is considered to be something you do as a child growing up. If you're any older than about 20, living with your parents (especially in their basement) is a sign that you haven't grown up; That you're too immature to leave the nest.

    It can also imply that you're a shut in who doesn't have the social skills to make it in the outside world; in essence, you're a nerd. There's actually quite a bit of truth to this when it comes to the tech sector since computers afford many people the ability to hide at home and use their computers as a window to the outside world, rather than actually going out.

  • You've Bean Trolled (unregistered) in reply to Soviut
    darkmage0707077:
    Hope that helped the international readers somewhat!
    Hey, while you're at it, do you happen to know the French word for "Whoosh!"?
    Soviut:
    computers afford many people the ability to hide at home and use their computers as a window to the outside world, rather than actually going out.
    Come back inside to the computer, and let me show you all about this thing called a troll.
  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to Soviut
    Soviut:
    I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).

    In North America, living with your parents is considered to be something you do as a child growing up. If you're any older than about 20, living with your parents (especially in their basement) is a sign that you haven't grown up; That you're too immature to leave the nest.

    It can also imply that you're a shut in who doesn't have the social skills to make it in the outside world; in essence, you're a nerd. There's actually quite a bit of truth to this when it comes to the tech sector since computers afford many people the ability to hide at home and use their computers as a window to the outside world, rather than actually going out.

    Being in the tech sector has very little to do with being able to browse to my-face-tube.com... In fact it's the new wave of eFriendships (TM): messaging, myspace, facebook, etc. that allows people to get by without ever having to face anybody.

    I've seen this alot with the new tweens generation. Really sad because you'll see a group of about 10 of them all sitting together, f*cking texting each other rather than opening their cake eaters and actually speaking to each other.

  • Neo (unregistered)

    I have just read the source code of the article and the original submission embedded there, in HTML comments.

    Seriously, now that I am aware of the extent to which Remy (and presumably Alex & Co.) exaggerate, tweak, "cornify" the original submissions, I feel, er, a little dumbstruck. Call it the licentia poetica, but the feeling is like you've just found out that Santa doesn't exist or that the old dog from your childhood actually was not moved to live with your uncle in Rhode Island.

  • (cs) in reply to webrunner
    webrunner:
    He's a chicken, I tell you! A giant chicken!

    It's ok.

    He wears a disguise, to look like human guys.

  • (cs) in reply to castlerobber
    castlerobber:
    The AS/400 has built-in relational database capabilities, as well as XML opcodes in ILE RPG. Flat files? There's TRWTF.

    Wasn't the AS/400 nothing but relational DBs? Granted, I dealt with AS/400 technology circa 1984, but it seemed like DBs to the AS/400 were what files are to Linux.

    Back to having nightmares of tangled twinax, green screens, mysterious objects in QUSRSYS, and 1/2" tape backup. Thanks Remy, your story undid a decade of therapy!

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    ...

    Sure enough, they soon realized their quandary and had to make do with the 9955. Yeah, it was better than the 9950, but didn't make much of a splash. After all, you could pick up a used 9950 for quite a bargain compared to a new 9955.

    Then came the 9955 Mod II.

    Shortly after that the company ceased to exist.

    See what your marketing idiots can do for you?

    Meanwhile, Nvidia did the 9800 GTX, then reset the counter with the GT410 and GT510. not always marketing that kills the comapny

  • (cs) in reply to boog
    boog:
    Sounds like Mortimer has a Problem at the Personal Level.
    Bobby turned in a pile of code (version 17 of the spec), along with a pile of test cases to QA. QA signed off. The customer was happy... Mortimer, on the other hand, was furious. So furious, in fact, that he demanded Bobby's contract be terminated.
    Seriously, what's the guy's problem here? The code is done, QA approved it, and the customer is happy.

    What a douche.

    The only thing worse than failing is having someone else walk in the door and succeed. A smart manager would have given him the up-to-date specs, had an occasional meeting with him, then taken the credit for his success.

  • (cs)

    I have to agree that you shouldn't take shit from Mortimer. There's no need to quit over it, though. Just politely respond by putting him in his place. On the odd occasion I've stood up to Mortimer types, and told them 'don't talk to me that way'. Of course, they always go huffing and puffing off to upper management, and then come back accompanied by an HR drone to make their apology. Generally, the bullies - because that's what Mortimers are - are then sufficiently cowed to make a productive working relationship possible.

    One time it went a bit too far, and I called the police - although I did realise that was tantamount to quitting. Here in the UK, you can commit assault simply by shouting at someone in a threatening way. The police turned up, and told the boss-bully that I'd reported that he assaulted me. He immediately started screaming and shouting about how he'd never laid a finger on me, got incredibly worked up, and admitted that he had in fact verbally assaulted me - which the police were more than ready to believe, since he was doing the same thing to them. It never went to court, but it was worth it to see him marched out of the office in handcuffs.

    On a completely different note, am I the only person who'd have been tempted to attend Mortimer's meeting after the termination of the contract? If nothing else, it's a chance to embarrass him in front of his boss, but actually, since you're no longer contracted to his company, you have the opportunity for all kinds of mischief. In the first place, any confidentiality or non-compete clauses you may have signed would become worthless as soon as they invite you back without paying you and discuss the stuff in front of you. If you really don't like them, though, you'd have no obligation to provide good advice or behave professionally.

  • Wonk (unregistered)

    ..Ba buk buk buk, ba buk buk buk, ba buk buk bukabuka buk buk buk..

    ...Stoopid monkey.

  • (cs) in reply to Andrew
    Andrew:
    Sylver:
    he could have insisted to be treated in a manner befitting of a professional.
    Man makes a good case. Bobby set a precedent for being treated unprofessionally. Sure, the "I see the waste of my budget has arrived" you could probably walk off at first (bad day, someone?), but there is no tolerating having a QA report being thrown at you, or taking lip when you've coded to a spec that someone else has provided.
    I am still waiting for a description of how you or Sylver would actually handle this in real life. Unless you have a video of the object being thrown at you (not just thrown) or a reliable witness willing to put it in writing, you've got nothing but he-said-she-said, so what do you do?
  • LoveKnuckle (unregistered) in reply to trtrwtf
    trtrwtf:
    C-Octothorpe:

    Note that I have only ever done this once, and the environment was very toxic (terrible architecture, terrible boss, deadlines long past, abusive CTO & CIO, etc., etc.). I actually ended up having to hold out for several months because the market was so bad, and even when I did leave, there was no dramatic "I QUIT!"...

    ... so basically what I'm saying is I'm a cautious pussy... :)

    ... and one who keeps working. This is a good thing. :)

    You two want to get a room? Just sayin'...

  • ÃÆâ€â (unregistered)

    Mortimer? The man sounds like he should be working punch cards in the 1920s instead of handling a modern project. His concept of contracts is probably from the 1920s too.

  • (cs) in reply to C-Octothorpe

    [quote user="C-Octothorpe"][quote user="jonnyq"]also..

    Excuse me while I take home more than 50% gross what I would make in a FT role... :) [/quote]

    Are you saying you're taking home just 50% of what you'd make FT; or 150% of what you'd make FT?

  • RCS (unregistered) in reply to Neo
    Neo:
    I have just read the source code of the article and the original submission embedded there, in HTML comments.

    Wow. Now that I've read the original post, I think I can honestly say that I have never read a more creative interpretation of facts (and that includes the time I was punched in the chin, and then sued for the sprained wrist because, apparently, I hit his hand with my head)

  • (cs)

    My God... I think I know you, Bobby... And I wonder if Nagesh is our boss... If the hammer drops on this entire project now, I guess that's the end of us...

  • (cs) in reply to darkmage0707077
    darkmage0707077:
    Nagesh:
    Excellent comment. I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).
    Yes, in American Middle- and Upper-class society, it is expected that at some point the children WILL move out of their parents' house and find a living place of their own. This is seen as a right of passage, to prove that said children can take care of themselves and handle the same responsibilities their parents were able to (taxes, bills, rent, etc), which also helps reassure some parents that the child(ren) can probably take care of THEM in their old age, as well.

    This isn't to say that those children don't eventually take over the parents' household once said parents become incapable of taking care of themselves; some American children (a growing number, in fact) move back in with their parents before that point, in order to save money and/or to be closer to friends and family. But that right of passage is still very commonly expected to occur at SOME point.

    In American Lower-class society, it is somewhat less common and not expected as much, but it's still considered a mark of respect (if not prestige) amongst peers to be able to move out on one's own in this way.

    Hope that helped the international readers somewhat!

    Captcha: tego...out on one's own into the world, with nobody else to help them should they fail. A great test of courage and skill!

    Good analysis, but it's "rite of passage" not "right". Homophones are tricky but it's worth trying to get them correct.

  • (cs) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    Soviut:
    I am still try to understand this living in basement thing. Is that common in America? In India we continue to stay with parents all their lives. Then our children continue to stay with us. Only time they go out if they want to complete education in different college (another city).

    In North America, living with your parents is considered to be something you do as a child growing up. If you're any older than about 20, living with your parents (especially in their basement) is a sign that you haven't grown up; That you're too immature to leave the nest.

    It can also imply that you're a shut in who doesn't have the social skills to make it in the outside world; in essence, you're a nerd. There's actually quite a bit of truth to this when it comes to the tech sector since computers afford many people the ability to hide at home and use their computers as a window to the outside world, rather than actually going out.

    Being in the tech sector has very little to do with being able to browse to my-face-tube.com... In fact it's the new wave of eFriendships (TM): messaging, myspace, facebook, etc. that allows people to get by without ever having to face anybody.

    I've seen this alot with the new tweens generation. Really sad because you'll see a group of about 10 of them all sitting together, f*cking texting each other rather than opening their cake eaters and actually speaking to each other.

    Don't knock it. Imagine the intolerable racket of 10 teenagers all talking at once. I'd relish the (relative) silence.

  • (cs)

    As a long-time FT programmer who's recently joined a consultancy firm, I can confirm that this sort of WTFery is alive and well in modern life. It's our job to write a replacement / enhancement to an existing system but we are not given access to much in the way of resources.

    a) We were given a portal.ear file in a liferay / JBoss app and not given the configuration details. When we finally get some resource to guide us through the install it's "Oh yes, forgot to tell you, you'll need to run these 3 scripts to set up the database, and don't forget to upload this lar file, and there's an edit you need to do to a couple of .properties files, oh and the build.xml file needs to be amended to work in this environment ..." Then the IT manager of the client firm sneers "You contractors aren't even up to the job of a simple local installation ..."

    b) When we asked if we could get hold of the source code for the legacy system (when all else fails, reverse engineer) we're told, "No you can't! Er, it doesn't do what it's supposed to. Besides, it's in Cold Fusion and we didn't employ you as CF experts so you won't be able to read it."

    c) In design meetings, we finally get the idea of what the app is supposed to do. "So, it does x, then y, then z, does it?" The answer: "No, no, no! First it does x, then, when it's finished doing x, it starts doing y. And then, and only then, when it's finished doing x, and it's finished doing y, then it does z! Can't you get that simple thing through your heads?"

    On the other hand, the drive to the client's office is through some pleasant countryside and I get paid fuel expenses handsomely. And it's not our money they're wasting, it's theirs.

  • Dan Neely (unregistered) in reply to jnewton
    jnewton:
    Cujo DeSockpuppet:
    That "pigs" and "chickens" bit sounds like Price-Waterhouse.

    The pig and chicken bit is a reference to an old analogy used in business and commonly referenced by the Agile methodology.

    To quote Wikipedia, "The Chicken suggests that the two involve themselves in a scheme involving ham (or bacon) and eggs (some suggest a breakfast, others suggest a restaurant). In reply, the Pig always notes that, for the Chicken, only a contribution is required (as a chicken can simply lay an egg and then resume normal activities), while for the Pig a "total commitment" (or total sacrifice) is needed (as in order to make ham or bacon, the pig must be slaughtered)."

    In this story, the full time developers are the pigs and the contractor is the chicken.

    Am I the only person who's immediate response to this sort of thing would be no "YOU be the suicidal MORON!"?

  • Abso (unregistered) in reply to Dan Neely
    Dan Neely:
    jnewton:
    Cujo DeSockpuppet:
    That "pigs" and "chickens" bit sounds like Price-Waterhouse.

    The pig and chicken bit is a reference to an old analogy used in business and commonly referenced by the Agile methodology.

    To quote Wikipedia, "The Chicken suggests that the two involve themselves in a scheme involving ham (or bacon) and eggs (some suggest a breakfast, others suggest a restaurant). In reply, the Pig always notes that, for the Chicken, only a contribution is required (as a chicken can simply lay an egg and then resume normal activities), while for the Pig a "total commitment" (or total sacrifice) is needed (as in order to make ham or bacon, the pig must be slaughtered)."

    In this story, the full time developers are the pigs and the contractor is the chicken.

    Am I the only person who's immediate response to this sort of thing would be no "YOU be the suicidal MORON!"?
    Nope, I'm right there with you.

    Am I correct assume that the people who tell this story are the same people who think it's reasonable to require huge amounts of overtime? After all, if you were really dedicated to the project, you'd be happy to give up your [social|family] life for it.

  • WTF (unregistered)

    sounds like a true story to me :-) no really sometimes management is just looking out for blood ! and people get hired for the wrong reasons, politics only no real job wating for them.

    Last week on an interview, and after an hour conversation all of the sudden the manager that was interviewing me slipped accidentally in that conversation that he had already tried to cancel the project for which he was hiring me 3 times !!

    After failing to kill the project 3 times because he didn't believe in it, the board of managers in response to his complaints told him to hire someone to help him in administration.

    Because he probably did not want anyone making him shadow, he was "forced" to hire another developer, ME :-)

    Im glad i did not take that job, wait another and found a much better project.

    For me the big WTF of this story is that when you change jobs you really have no idea what you are getting yourself into !! How true !!

  • (cs) in reply to Abso
    Abso:
    Am I correct assume that the people who tell this story are the same people who think it's reasonable to require huge amounts of overtime? After all, if you were really dedicated to the project, you'd be happy to give up your [social|family] life for it.

    What social/family life? We're developers, we're not supposed to contribute to the gene pool!

    And besides, I wasl ALREADY suicidal... a moron, maybe not, but at least if I snap it won't be their fault! Though I suppose I did snap already, and was somehow miraculously forgiven... all I can figure is Jesus Christ himself is running this company!

  • Richard Fleming (unregistered)

    Am I the only one who wants to scream out a line from Robert Munsch's "Mortimer"?

    'Mortimer! Be quiet!!!'

    Captcha: 'Vindico'; Latin for Avenge. Bobby definitely will get his contracting agent to avenge his demise.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to Richard Fleming
    Richard Fleming:
    Captcha: 'Vindico'; Latin for Avenge. Bobby definitely will get his contracting agent to avenge his demise.

    Why? Bobby laid his egg and moved on...

    And regarding a comment earlier about showing up to the meeting anyway: brillant!

    On the way over to the meeting, I would grab some really strong smelling food (i.e. gyro), and mow down on it during the meeting... Rip off bits with your hand and offer some to Mortimer and the client. Oh, it would be a thing of beauty...

    sniff

  • KITT (unregistered) in reply to Matt Westwood
    Matt Westwood:
    Good analysis, but it's "rite of passage" not "right". Homophones are tricky but it's worth trying to get them correct.

    Heh heh... he said homo... heh heh...

  • Nick (unregistered) in reply to C-Octothorpe
    C-Octothorpe:
    hoodaticus:
    C-Octothorpe:
    jonnyq:
    also..

    Hmm.. the guy that got hired for me got the job done 6 months early. I can save 5 months worth of contractor salary if I pretend he did something wrong, fire him, then blame any bugs on him.

    He doesn't have to pretend, he can be fired at will for no reason at all... We all know, contractors aren't real people anyway, right?

    Excuse me while I take home more than 50% gross what I would make in a FT role... :)

    Do contractors get stock options?
    Didn't say it was perfect, but it's nice to get those fat cheques every month...
    I don't know whether I would call just over half FT salary a fat cheque.

  • C-Octothorpe (unregistered) in reply to Nick
    Nick:
    I don't know whether I would call just over half FT salary a fat cheque.

    My bad... What I meant was 50% on top of the regular salary, meaning 150% (i.e. 135k vs 90k).

    Clicked submit too quickly I suppose.

  • KITT (unregistered) in reply to Nick
    Nick:
    C-Octothorpe:
    hoodaticus:
    C-Octothorpe:
    jonnyq:
    also..

    Hmm.. the guy that got hired for me got the job done 6 months early. I can save 5 months worth of contractor salary if I pretend he did something wrong, fire him, then blame any bugs on him.

    He doesn't have to pretend, he can be fired at will for no reason at all... We all know, contractors aren't real people anyway, right?

    Excuse me while I take home more than 50% gross what I would make in a FT role... :)

    Do contractors get stock options?
    Didn't say it was perfect, but it's nice to get those fat cheques every month...
    I don't know whether I would call just over half FT salary a fat cheque.

    He was referring to the hefty slavs the company sends over to his apartment once in a while. Homophones are tricky...

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