• (cs) in reply to Da' Man
    Da' Man:
    The real WTF is that "Yahweh" and I seem to have the same brother-in-law!!!

    Hardly surprising since Yahweh is Da'Man, according to some at least.

  • Staszek (unregistered)

    This reminds me of a chat I made once with a classmate from my first school. We haven't seen each other for a few years and drifted apart certainly. I was studying Computer Science, he was starting a career in the army.

    Hearing I am a student, he almost involuntarily sneared. Which is a common habit among lower-grade soldiers (ones that don't need to graduate university) in the army.

    But not only me being a student made him feel pity for me. CS students made him feel double-pity. Also, there was a truth he knew from his brother in law.

    The brother in law could have been actually able to 'make game like Halo', if 'game like Halo' was on the marked then. At that time we would rather say he was able to make a game like Doom if he fancied. Or a database. Or an application to count anything.

    His secret was "The Program". He had a program on his computer, that allowed him to make almost anything he wanted, despite having no formal IT education.

    Thus, both my old friend and his bro'in'lo could laugh at all these naive students who were hoping they will learn something useful at their universities.

    IT market was about to dry out soon. I should rather be thinking of learning something useful instead.

    Yes, I immediately asked about the program name. My old buddy did not remember. It had something with "Amiga" or whatever in it. And yes, you guessed it right. I exposed gross incompetence, not knowing "The Program" after studying CS for almost two years...

    I was wandering what could it be? Perhaps an office suite? Or some demo development studio? Remember the "demos" - vector animations people used to craft on their home computers in mid-90'?

    Years went by and hopefully "The Program" hasn't threatened the IT market. Who knows - perhaps it had Millenium Bug? Or some conspiracy of concerned IT specialists managed to bury it down in a well protected safe in Hangar 18?

  • KristofU (unregistered)

    More than 12 years in the industry now, and I still cannot explain to anyone who is not a programmer what I do exactly. Usually when I'm done fixing someone's printer or router, they say that to do this full-time must surely be a boring job. I even have problems telling the new brand of web/ajax/javascript developers what it is that I do exactly.

    I always revert to analogies, like desiging cars or buildings, but even then they have a hard time linking this to computers.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    Must... Not... Bash... Head... Against... Keyboard...

    I swear, most of the people using computers don't need them at all.

  • John Wilson (unregistered) in reply to JS
    JS:
    him: Oh, I thought I would write something like: "Create football stadium and football players. Start the game when user presses spacebar. Make players have red shirts and white socks."

    Well, he's not that far off. All he then needs to do is explain, nicely, to the computer what he means by "create", "football", "stadium", "players", "start", "game", "when", "user, "spacebar", "presses", "make", "have", "red", "shirt", "white", "sock" and so forth, in excruciating detail using an exacting syntax, and he'll be .01% of the way there :)

  • R (unregistered) in reply to apetrelli
    This kind of people usually think that Word has been created by God.

    Well, this WTF is posted by Yahweh...

  • (cs)

    I think that he's biggest mistake was answering yes to a question "Him: Hey, you're good with computers right?". It's almost a real WTF, because when you hear that question, you probably must run. At least I always do so.

  • Yazeran (unregistered) in reply to WPlinge
    WPlinge:
    He created a text file with the words "Morph the screen into something cool" and couldn't figure out how to run it
    I did almost exactly the same thing when I was 7 or 8!
    Well In unix all you need to do is set the execute bit and then run it as root; If you are lucky, something cool/weird will happen! (refer fun with permissions section in http://www-uxsup.csx.cam.ac.uk/misc/horror.txt) :-)

    Yazeran

  • SlyEcho (unregistered) in reply to JS
    JS:
    I have a similar experience:

    him: Do you have some book on programming?

    me: I do. Take this Delphi book. It is fairly simple and should be easy to start with.

    him: Ok, thanks. And what language do I do the programming in? (Note: we are not native English speakers)

    me: Umm, Delphi. It actually is a mutation of Pascal.

    him: Oh no, I don't mean program, I mean language, do I need to program in English or can it be Czech?

    me: I am not sure what you mean. Some Pascal keywords resemble English, yes. But you can use whatever language you want for naming variables for example.

    him: Keywords? Variables? ...

    me: (Explaining what programming actually is)

    him: Oh, I thought I would write something like: "Create football stadium and football players. Start the game when user presses spacebar. Make players have red shirts and white socks."

    Do not advocate the use of languages other than English in variable names. So that I wouldn't have to figure out what "StavSkladuZmeny", "strUzivatelskeJmeno" and "strUzivatelskeHeslo" mean (in a web service I recently integrated).

  • TraumaPony (unregistered)

    That reminds me of a time long ago when my mum used to ask me how to use her banking website.

    Another time, my neighbour asked me to make an operating system that didn't crash so he could use it instead of Windows 95 (this was in 2003; I just installed XP instead).

    Although, to be fair on the man, he had been hit by three seperate trains in his life, and was shot in a Nazi POW camp... Poor bastard.

  • TraumaPony (unregistered) in reply to SlyEcho
    SlyEcho:
    Do not advocate the use of languages other than English in variable names. So that I wouldn't have to figure out what "StavSkladuZmeny", "strUzivatelskeJmeno" and "strUzivatelskeHeslo" mean (in a web service I recently integrated).
    Not everyone speaks English.
  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to WPlinge
    He created a text file with the words "Morph the screen into something cool" and couldn't figure out how to run it

    Well I see the problem! He SHOULD have written "Morph the screen into something cool;" - you need a semi-colon at the end of the command. :-)

  • (cs)

    (I couldn't find the actual image of the comic.) Here's a Dilbert strip from February, 2006:

    Dilbert is at his desk and a fellow walks up behind him: Generic Guy: "Hey, Dilbert, would you mind stopping by my house after work and seeing if you can fix my computer?" Dilbert: "Sure. And while I do that you can be at my house cleaning the grout in my shower." Generic Guy (with a shocked expression): "That's crazy talk." Dilbert: "Hey. I'm not the one who majored in comparative literature"

  • foo (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Must... Not... Bash... Head... Against... Keyboard...

    I swear, most of the people using computers don't need them at all.

    Yes but WE need people to need computers. And people who need people to need computers are the luckiest people of all.

  • TheDev (unregistered) in reply to Binsky
    Binsky:
    Just wondering, but if he's the only computer literate person in the family, how does he view his dads' skills? ;-)

    How many dads do you think the guy has?

  • Sammy (unregistered) in reply to JS
    JS:
    I have a similar experience: ...

    him: Ok, thanks. And what language do I do the programming in? (Note: we are not native English speakers)

    me: Umm, Delphi. It actually is a mutation of Pascal.

    him: Oh no, I don't mean program, I mean language, do I need to program in English or can it be Czech?

    me: I am not sure what you mean. Some Pascal keywords resemble English, yes. But you can use whatever language you want for naming variables for example. ...

    Actually, up until this point it was a pretty reasonable question.

    Also - ever see Star Trek 4? (I think - the one where they go back in time.)

    Scotty: Computer. [pauses, then, growing irritable] Computer. Engineer: [hands Scotty a mouse] Scotty: [smiles] Ah. [into mouse] Computer.

  • (cs) in reply to fred flintstone
    fred flintstone:
    "Create football stadium and football players. Start the game when user presses spacebar. Make players have red shirts and white socks."

    one day this will happen. that's what I'm aiming for anyway. proper natural language programming. tasty!

    This will just be your top level file. All the rest will be something along the lines of "The socks are 20cm high. They are made out of wool. They have a slight crease at the 15cm height...." ad nauseum. We need to wait till they come up with a direct brain to PC link.

  • (cs) in reply to cthulhu
    cthulhu:
    The real WTF is that someone gave him a book on Java to learn Programming. Java vs Programming. Apple vs Orange.
    You lose.
  • (cs) in reply to Mythokia
    Mythokia:
    Usually when someone starts the conversation with "are you good with computers?", I expect it to go downhill.
    That's why you always answer this question with "No, not really." You'd be surprised how often it works.
  • Edward Royce (unregistered) in reply to KristofU
    KristofU:
    More than 12 years in the industry now, and I still cannot explain to anyone who is not a programmer what I do exactly. Usually when I'm done fixing someone's printer or router, they say that to do this full-time must surely be a boring job. I even have problems telling the new brand of web/ajax/javascript developers what it is that I do exactly.

    I always revert to analogies, like desiging cars or buildings, but even then they have a hard time linking this to computers.

    I generally explain to people that programming is like writing cooking recipes for absolute imbeciles who have never seen a kitchen or held a pan.

    When they act surprised and state that it couldn't be that hard I ask them, as a test, to come up with how to guide an idiot through poaching an egg.

    They get it pretty soon after that.

  • The real rtf fool (unregistered)

    Get him to download freebasic from http://www.freebasic.net

    Tell him:

      dim as integer count
  for count = 1 to 10
    print "[BiL's name here] is the 1337 programmer"
  next

    Job done.

  • Doomsday (unregistered)

    Haha, my uncle is the guy who wrote "Teach Yourself Java in 24 hours".

  • (cs) in reply to Staszek
    Staszek:
    I was studying Computer Science, he was starting a career in the army. Hearing I am a student, he almost involuntarily sneared. Which is a common habit among lower-grade soldiers (ones that don't need to graduate university) in the army. But not only me being a student made him feel pity for me. CS students made him feel double-pity.

    I have been both a CS student and a soldier and I don't get it. When you'll be working in a cozy air-conditioned office with your donut and coffee, he'll be out in the freezing wind and rain guarding some god-forsaken ammo depot. And he feels pity for you?! Not very bright, is he?

  • Edward Royce (unregistered) in reply to TraumaPony
    TraumaPony:
    That reminds me of a time long ago when my mum used to ask me how to use her banking website.

    Another time, my neighbour asked me to make an operating system that didn't crash so he could use it instead of Windows 95 (this was in 2003; I just installed XP instead).

    Although, to be fair on the man, he had been hit by three seperate trains in his life, and was shot in a Nazi POW camp... Poor bastard.

    Yep. Using Windows 95? Seriously poor bastard.

  • my name is missing (unregistered)

    The best thing to say is "it's magic, like in Harry Potter" or "it involves quantum mechanics". Usually then they bow low before you and you can run away.

  • Ryan (unregistered)

    I get this all the time. I have a cousin who thinks that owning the program is enough to get the job done.

    "You need a logo? I can do that, I have photoshop somewhere"

    "need a webpage? I can do that, I have frontpage"

    "programming? that' easy, just download visual studio"

  • mjmcinto (unregistered) in reply to Phleabo
    Phleabo:
    cthulhu:
    Da' Man:
    Just out of curiosity: how would you implement a Singleton pattern in VB4?

    VB4 doesn't allow mistakes like that.

    Sadly, there's a bit of a good point there. Of course, that's probably outweighed by the countless thousands of other mistakes VB4 will let you make.

    Like "on error resume next". That is just sends my blood pressure soaring when I see code like that. And no, I'm not a VB programmer. I'm a C/C++/C# developer.

  • (cs) in reply to Steve
    Steve:
    My favorite, a request from my previous employer's father to me, is still "Can you download the Internet to my laptop so I can browse offline?"

    I know what he means. I just got through "The Internet 2007, Web 2.0 Edition". Was cool, had lots of flashy interfaces and stuff, but the ending was kind of disappointing. Can't wait for "The Internet 2008" to come out.

  • Patrick (unregistered)

    Sounds like your sister is banging a douchebag.

  • Raven (unregistered) in reply to Alex
    Alex:
    Having taught CS to a wide range of students, I've found that when I ran into this sort of "ambition" that the best way to put it in perspective is to tell them that a team of programmers spent years making Halo. Microsoft spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on it. They generally understand that it isn't going to be "point-and-click" after that.

    Captcha: Damn um (thought that was particularly funny)

    They spent more than hundreds of thousands. :) Halo 3 cost $30 million to make. Halo 2 cost $20 million (they reportedly also spent that again in marketing costs).

    Not entirely sure about the first one, do not think it was up there with the others, I think it is somewhere about the 5 million mark

  • mjmcinto (unregistered) in reply to KristofU
    KristofU:
    More than 12 years in the industry now, and I still cannot explain to anyone who is not a programmer what I do exactly. Usually when I'm done fixing someone's printer or router, they say that to do this full-time must surely be a boring job. I even have problems telling the new brand of web/ajax/javascript developers what it is that I do exactly.

    I always revert to analogies, like desiging cars or buildings, but even then they have a hard time linking this to computers.

    I'm a developer, and my mother in law got kinda upset w/me one day. She asked me what I did, so I told her I wrote software. That wasn't enough for her, so she asked what exactly I did. So I said something along the lines of I write programs, you know like MS Word (which I know she uses). I told her that when she uses a program on her computer, someone like me has written code to get the computer to do what she wanted. Well, she wanted more details, and I told her she wouldn't understand the details (she's not even close to being technical). When she still pressed, I turned my laptop around (I was working on an app for fun), and showed her the code. I said this is what I do, I type this stuff into the screen so I can make programs like this, and then launched the app. She was upset b/c I didn't really explain what I do. sigh

  • Former Jr. Programmer (unregistered) in reply to apetrelli
    apetrelli:
    1) No programming-illiterate people understands the difference from using a program and making one.

    No programming-illiterate PERSON understands ...

  • Ubersoldat (unregistered) in reply to DOA
    DOA:
    Staszek:
    I was studying Computer Science, he was starting a career in the army. Hearing I am a student, he almost involuntarily sneared. Which is a common habit among lower-grade soldiers (ones that don't need to graduate university) in the army. But not only me being a student made him feel pity for me. CS students made him feel double-pity.

    I have been both a CS student and a soldier and I don't get it. When you'll be working in a cozy air-conditioned office with your donut and coffee, he'll be out in the freezing wind and rain guarding some god-forsaken ammo depot. And he feels pity for you?! Not very bright, is he?

    Same here, and the only thing I miss from being a soldier is shooting different weapons. And sometimes you don't want to be in an office in such a beautiful day, but again, the military can destroy a day like those in seconds making you march for 5 hours straight:

    "Oh! Such a nice day... gear up! Going for a Walk!"

    He must not be very smart actually.

  • (cs) in reply to JS
    JS:
    I have a similar experience:

    ....

    me: (Explaining what programming actually is)

    him: Oh, I thought I would write something like: "Create football stadium and football players. Start the game when user presses spacebar. Make players have red shirts and white socks."

    Not unless he wants his football stadium to look like a windows error report or a blue screen of death (the ole converting a text file into an executable thing that ordinary people try to do).

  • Former Jr. Programmer (unregistered) in reply to TraumaPony
    TraumaPony:
    SlyEcho:
    Do not advocate the use of languages other than English in variable names. So that I wouldn't have to figure out what "StavSkladuZmeny", "strUzivatelskeJmeno" and "strUzivatelskeHeslo" mean (in a web service I recently integrated).
    Not everyone speaks English.

    Look into a good refactoring application.

  • (cs)
    Just out of curiosity: how would you implement a Singleton pattern in VB4?

    Patterns aren't a feature; they're a hack:

    A design pattern isn't a feature. A Factory isn't a feature, nor is a Delegate nor a Proxy nor a Bridge. They "enable" features in a very loose sense, by providing nice boxes to hold the features in. But boxes and bags and shelves take space. And design patterns – at least most of the patterns in the "Gang of Four" book – make code bases get bigger. Tragically, the only GoF pattern that can help code get smaller (Interpreter) is utterly ignored by programmers who otherwise have the names of Design Patterns tatooed on their various body parts. http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2007/12/codes-worst-enemy.html

    I don't know how to implement a singleton in VB4, but, sadly, I can do it in VB6. Well, VBA. :::sigh:::

    VBs are good for rapid prototyping/quick dev with a GUI. They don't exist to implement a multi-platform server.

  • (cs) in reply to Former Jr. Programmer
    SlyEcho:
    Do not advocate the use of languages other than English in variable names. So that I wouldn't have to figure out what "StavSkladuZmeny", "strUzivatelskeJmeno" and "strUzivatelskeHeslo" mean (in a web service I recently integrated).

    Anglocentrism is ugly.

  • Puppy (unregistered) in reply to Staszek
    Staszek:
    Remember the "demos" - vector animations people used to craft on their home computers in mid-90'?
    Could you BE any more patronizing? I mean, do you remember the "books" - those collections of pages filled with strange scribblings some weird people used to stare at? The demoscene is even today alive and well, and every year there are some excellent or even borderline unbelievable productions that can impress even your grandmother, let alone skillful programmers. We've come far from the copper bars, plasmas, and sinewave scrollers.
  • anne (unregistered)

    oh this makes me so mad! Is it OK to call these people "stupid" or do we have to say that they just don't understand computers but maybe they are smart in different areas? I have quite a few friends who are very smart in the liberal arts and couldn't program a computer to save their life -- but at least they understand that, and would never ever ask me anything approaching that! How did you not scream at him over the phone? I might explode!

  • (cs) in reply to ForcedSterilizationsForAll
    At one of the places I worked as a programmer I had a co-worker call and ask if I could fix her radio. I didn't know what to say so I asked if she was serious. She was. Humoring her I went over to take a look and saw that it wasn't plugged in. Needless to say her emailed request was posted on our "Wall of Brilliance."
    Guy, I think it wasn't her radio she wanted you to plug in. Good job staying faithful, though!
  • (cs) in reply to dorkquemada
    dorkquemada:
    cthulhu:
    Volmarias:
    More like "Fruit vs Orange". No, it's not going to turn him into a computer scientist, but it'll get him started in the right direction. Well, it would, at least, if it wasn't one of those "24 hours" books that tend to teach the worst possible ways to do things.

    Java will send him totally in the wrong direction. Java is almost the opposite of true programming.

    elaborate please

    Java was invented to run toasters and microwave ovens. When Sun couldn't manage to convince firmware OEMs to incorporate it into ROMs, they started searching for other uses since they'd spent all the money inventing it. Suddenly it was Good For What Ails You on the web, but even that didn't really work out because Java is really, really bad at user interfaces. (No, really. It's horrible. Both AWT and Swing have serious design issues, which shows that while Gosling might have been a genious at language design--in the sense that he mostly copied C++--those who followed him were tragically bad at class framework designs.) Finally, with Javascript and Flash eating Java's lunch every day (or stealing its lunch money, depends on how you look at it), Java finally found a place in the world: a server-side language, with or without JSP.

    This is something at which Java excels, although C# and .NET might eat into that a little bit, especially if the Mono Project gets to the tipping point. The JSP tag library thing could be a little nicer, no doubt, but for speed-to-market and maintainability, Java is great on the server.

    What I suspect, however, is that the dude what said "Java is almost the opposite of true programming" is actually one of those nutjob functional programmers, not a procedural programmer. They always say things like that, since there's little actual "real world" work done with their languages, which are doomed to remain as little more than toys for university professors and eccentrics of all stripes.

    There, did I clear that up for you?

  • (cs) in reply to anne
    anne:
    oh this makes me so mad! Is it OK to call these people "stupid" or do we have to say that they just don't understand computers but maybe they are smart in different areas? I have quite a few friends who are very smart in the liberal arts and couldn't program a computer to save their life -- but at least they understand that, and would never ever ask me anything approaching that! How did you not scream at him over the phone? I might explode!

    I know what you mean. I have a friend whose knowledge of computers is very limited...and he knows it. Occasionally I'll get a call from him asking a question, and he admits it's probably a "stupid" question to me, but he doesn't know. I try to help him out, and it doesn't upset me. Then again, he knows a lot about cars, so he's the first guy I call when I have a car question ;)

  • anne (unregistered) in reply to Sammy
    Also - ever see Star Trek 4? (I think - the one where they go back in time.)

    Scotty: Computer. [pauses, then, growing irritable] Computer. Engineer: [hands Scotty a mouse] Scotty: [smiles] Ah. [into mouse] Computer.

    Yes, that was ST4 -- I still say "Computer" in that great Scotty voice when I'm frustrated by the computer's inability to read my mind and do what I MEAN. yay!

  • (cs) in reply to Patrick
    Patrick:
    Sounds like your sister is banging a douchebag.

    Not necessarily.

    It could be that that Yahweh is banging a douchebag's sister.

  • Leak (unregistered) in reply to Staszek
    Staszek:
    Remember the "demos" - vector animations people used to craft on their home computers in mid-90'?
    "Used to"?

    http://www.pouet.net/prod.php?which=30244

  • Jaded - in a good way (unregistered)

    When a user wants something implemented quickly and then tells me it is trivial/easy I just print out the relevant section of source code and ask them where I should start.

    If that doesn't recalibrate their easy-meter I swat them across the nose with the rolled up source code.

    When an annoying acquaintance asks for help when they clearly have not even tried to figure it out for themselves I always refer them to the words near the top of the screen - specifically the one that says HELP...

  • (cs) in reply to QS
    QS:
    Maybe you should have tried to teach him Inform 7.

    Pfffft. Scheme > Inform 7.

  • bramster (unregistered) in reply to Deccy
    Deccy:
    I have a meccano set, can you tell me how to build a ferrari.

    What. . . The first one wouldn't start?

  • (cs) in reply to Edward Royce
    Edward Royce:
    TraumaPony:
    Another time, my neighbour asked me to make an operating system that didn't crash so he could use it instead of Windows 95 (this was in 2003; I just installed XP instead).

    Although, to be fair on the man, he had been hit by three seperate trains in his life, and was shot in a Nazi POW camp... Poor bastard.

    Yep. Using Windows 95? Seriously poor bastard.

    Actually, being hit by 3 different trains makes me question the man's wisdom in where he walks. (Either that or he worked in a shunting yard) Typically people who have been hit by a train learn (the first time) not to jog, listening to their iPods down railway lines.

  • (cs) in reply to SlyEcho
    SlyEcho:
    Do not advocate the use of languages other than English in variable names. So that I wouldn't have to figure out what "StavSkladuZmeny", "strUzivatelskeJmeno" and "strUzivatelskeHeslo" mean (in a web service I recently integrated).

    Obviously Hungarian Notation.

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