• science_gone_bad (unregistered) in reply to ChrisB
    ChrisB:
    FredSaw:
    ...learned that he was blamed for all of the database's problems.
    Well, duh... isn't that standard procedure everywhere? Same as the team member who misses the meeting gets volunteered to organize the Christmas decorating.

    Blaming everything on the last person to leave is a long-standing tradition at my current workplace.. Everything from a production server going down to running out of milk for the tea.

    It'll all be my fault in a couple of weeks!

    That's exactly why we instituted a daily blame schedule. That way we can plan for the day that it's our fault, and know exactly who to send the user to. My day is Wednesday by the way. Any other time and it cannot be my fault....not my day after all.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to emurphy
    emurphy:
    KenW:
    Tinkerghost:
    Adding to an Enum field?

    How do ALTER TABLE and adding an Enum field tie together? I can see having to INSERT to add an Enum value, but can't come up with a tie in with ALTER TABLE. Can you explain?

    Not adding a new Enum value to a specific row, but adding a new Enum value in general (one that previously wasn't a valid value for that column).

    Such as what? Just add a row to the table specifying valid enum values.

  • Joe (unregistered) in reply to BiggerWTF
    BiggerWTF:
    I'm interviewing right now, and one of the things I'm looking for is a candidate who ask questions about the company, the people who work here, the environment, specific tasks, tools, technologies, etc.

    I won't even consider a candidate who is not interested enough to ask those questions. They might be the best talent I can find, but we might not be somewhere they want to work. That needs to be sorted out before they start working here.

    I'm doing something similar with people I'm interviewing. So far, only a single candidate asked about the day-to-day tasks, the corporate culture, and the organizational structure of our area. He was a real winner...

    Too bad he couldn't tell me the difference between an INNER JOIN and an OUTER JOIN.

    Too bad indeed.

    Captcha - bathe: That candidate should bathe himself in SQL books.

  • (cs) in reply to Random array of rebuttals
    Random array of rebuttals:
    OK, I love wtf but this hits too close to home. It's strikingly similar to my employer so I'm writing up some counter points. I consider it unlikely that we're connected but I want to play devil's advocate. <snip/> Para 8) Db is backed up nightly, its a 115GB database and isn't a screamer. Backup jobs would fail and I understand how someone with limited db knowledge would overhear competent database developers discussing the purchased software sending queries that dynamically compiled code MAY mistake this as an ALTER TABLE statement. It just wasn't happening and even if it was - the db software would process those backups just fine. There's a problem with ALTER DATABASE statement though... Hmmm, better check that book again?

    Para 9) We are throwing hardware at the db. It went from 2 cores to 4 and now 8 and we're eying 16. Perhaps these are small potatoes to some of the big companies. The company is small and growing. We struggle to fix the bad and build the new but we're starting to make progress. The applications and databases are our scope, the computers, and network was his.

    BTW - the last straw was when servers began dieing one by one across a number of weeks. Sergey was fired because someone brought up the point that he was supposed to be administrating the system.

    This appears to be self-serving gibberish, and you appear to have a serious problem with scalability.

    May I suggest "Times Ten"? It won't hurt your head too much; it's proven technology; and it doesn't involve doing really, really, difficult things like actually writing code.

    (Disclaimer -- I have never worked for these people, although I was asked in a bar to forward my resume. I just think it's a great solution for idiots who can't tie their own shoe-laces: ie, 95% of database shops.)

    BTW, Exactly what differentiates a "competent database developer" from a "competent developer"?

    Not that I've ever met one of those, either ...

  • (cs) in reply to BuilderOfSystems
    BuilderOfSystems:
    Zemyla:
    ALTER TABLE?

    What the hell are they doing, storing client data as column names?

    Well.. we once built a quite complex application that stored generic data. Like "Objects" with any kind of Properties. This forced us in the end to create and alter Tables representing the properties. This was simply needed because after a couple of millions of records the old approach with t_obj -> t_property turned out to be quite slow.

    Sigh.

    Go back and look up a few books or references on "Generic Programming."

    What you appear to be blathering on about here is "Stupid Programming."

    I've no doubt that there are Big Red Books about that, too.

  • (cs) in reply to KenW
    KenW:
    Maosn:
    Actually, I can think of a reason that has been discussed in the past on this very board:

    The client side application includes a (runtime defined) number of flexible data entry forms. Which specific fields appear on the forms varies from form to form, and can be changed at runtime.

    This leaves you with two bad choices for database implementation:

    Neither of those choices are acceptable.

    The reason that apps like you describe exist is one of two:

    1. The developers (or more likely their managers) thought they were really smart to make their app so flexible that it could adapt to changing data collection requirements without them needing to make changes in the future.

    or

    1. The developers (or more likely their managers) were too timid to resist the client's demands to make the app so flexible that the client wouldn't need to pay later to implement changes in data collection needs.

    I've experienced both, and have been put in the position of pointing out how stupid this is, and how nasty the problems will be when later they discover that the attempt will cost big $$$ to fix.

    I thought about this for about ninety seconds, and as far as I can see, KenW is absolutely correct.

  • (cs) in reply to FredSaw
    FredSaw:
    real_aardvark:
    What, you didn't notice that he did this about two or three days ago?

    Shame on you, Mr Saw!

    Of course I did. Perhaps I wasn't specific enough... I should have said, "quite experienced at self-fisting". Stretching so as to accomodate his head, you understand.
    I'm not sure his head is pointy enough, Fred.

    Charming image, though.

  • AlG (unregistered) in reply to Beau "Porpus" Wilkinson

    [quote user="Beau "Porpus" Wilkinson

    I used something called Merant PVCS at a previous job... OMG it was bad. I think it was actually a Java application, not Javascript or even a Java applet. The GUI looked like something from Windows 3.0 beta and keystrokes took up to 15 minutes to have any effect. What a POS that was... it still amazes my colleagues when I tell them that, yes, there are much worse systems than SourceSafe.[/quote]

    Used PVCS (4.x, 5.x) for a while. Windows client was quite useable, but the client for *x was a crappy Java app, running in 4 colors with crappy fonts and confusing interface. POS.

    Man, Source Safe is at least reasonably fast with a good local file server, though not much secure, and very easy to learn to use.

    Compare that with Perforce, which have innumerable menus and features, but looks like never went through useability study. Don't ask me how to share a file in it. It's major PITA.

  • Random array of rebuttals (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    This appears to be self-serving gibberish, and you appear to have a serious problem with scalability.

    May I suggest "Times Ten"? It won't hurt your head too much; it's proven technology; and it doesn't involve doing really, really, difficult things like actually writing code.

    (Disclaimer -- I have never worked for these people, although I was asked in a bar to forward my resume. I just think it's a great solution for idiots who can't tie their own shoe-laces: ie, 95% of database shops.)

    BTW, Exactly what differentiates a "competent database developer" from a "competent developer"?

    Not that I've ever met one of those, either ...

    Scalability is and issue I do not debate that but the problem was caused by buying a POS canned product such as your Times Ten and having consultants customize it to the point that it nowhere near resembles the original product and putting a user load that it was never meant to support.

    In regards to your question, I was up late and didn't catch that mistake. The other developer referred is software or application developer.

    The point of my posting is that there sometimes is an other side to the WTF stories and that this was a pretty weak one.

  • (cs) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Franz Kafka:
    emurphy:
    KenW:
    Tinkerghost:
    Adding to an Enum field?

    How do ALTER TABLE and adding an Enum field tie together? I can see having to INSERT to add an Enum value, but can't come up with a tie in with ALTER TABLE. Can you explain?

    Not adding a new Enum value to a specific row, but adding a new Enum value in general (one that previously wasn't a valid value for that column).

    Such as what? Just add a row to the table specifying valid enum values.

    Assuming that there is such a table, as opposed to hard-coding the list of valid values into the structure of some other table. The point made earlier in the discussion was that, if the list of valid values changes more often than once in a blue moon, then there should be such a table.

  • Totally Agreeing (unregistered) in reply to Maosn
    Maosn:
    Actually, I can think of a reason that has been discussed in the past on this very board:

    This leaves you with two bad choices for database implementation

    May I propose a Third choice (slightly better than #1 - Sorry for oraclisms):

    create table fields ( id number , datatype char(1)); create table form ( id number, name varchar2(100)); create table formfields ( formid number , fieldid number ); create table data ( id number formid number ,fieldid number, value clob )

    with not null and default values and triggers everywhere...

    When you need to query you cast both the query parameter and the Value field to the correct type from the Fields table .

  • (cs) in reply to Random array of rebuttals
    Random array of rebuttals:
    real_aardvark:
    This appears to be self-serving gibberish, and you appear to have a serious problem with scalability.

    May I suggest "Times Ten"? It won't hurt your head too much; it's proven technology; and it doesn't involve doing really, really, difficult things like actually writing code.

    (Disclaimer -- I have never worked for these people, although I was asked in a bar to forward my resume. I just think it's a great solution for idiots who can't tie their own shoe-laces: ie, 95% of database shops.)

    BTW, Exactly what differentiates a "competent database developer" from a "competent developer"?

    Not that I've ever met one of those, either ...

    Scalability is and issue I do not debate that but the problem was caused by buying a POS canned product such as your Times Ten and having consultants customize it to the point that it nowhere near resembles the original product and putting a user load that it was never meant to support.

    In regards to your question, I was up late and didn't catch that mistake. The other developer referred is software or application developer.

    The point of my posting is that there sometimes is an other side to the WTF stories and that this was a pretty weak one.

    Well, I think my original comment is still possibly helpful to you (albeit probably insulting for no reason at all. Bear with me. I enjoy it.)

    "Times Ten" is essentially an in-memory caching layer behind/above the actual database. Given the multi-gigs of memory available these days, it appears to me to have the ability to sole an awful lot of scalability problems.

    And no, as I say, I won't make a penny out of it. I just like proper software engineering solutions.

  • JT Wenting (unregistered) in reply to Zemyla
    Zemyla:
    ALTER TABLE?

    What the hell are they doing, storing client data as column names?

    Quite possibly. I've seen (and heard of even more) enough applications that do things like that that it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

    Worse, a lot of people (and that includes teachers in programming courses) seem to think it a perfectly good idea.

    Or the idea of creating a new table for each record, and linking to that record by inserting another record in some massive link table listing the table name as a key...

  • Doomed (unregistered)

    The guy showing up for doing the work is responsible for more than mere technical competence. In fact, mere technical competence is an equal partner to more general career / work / management skills. I didn't know that when I started out but now I know it. And while Doomed from the Start may have been technically perfect, he made a bunch of mistakes, starting from the job interview ("to whom will I be reporting? what is the structure of the work? what are the goals of this position? what does this position lead to? what is my boss' position? what does my boss' position lead to?") to his day-to-day performance.

    They should tell people things like this at some point in school. There's no mandatory college class that's like "personal MBA for managing your life / career / finances in one semester". There should be. It would save a lot of people like this guy a lot of grief. And would result in more smoothly-running businesses.

    (Captcha: waffles, which, honest-to-Zeus, I was just eating as I typed this message, and I saw the captcha just as I finished and scrolled down to get ready to post)

    IRS and tax law help

  • Kuba (unregistered) in reply to caffeinatedbacon
    caffeinatedbacon:
    bch:
    Either way, I cannot for the life of me figure out why IT employees are so passive. Sergey was in meetings with management every single day - if there were problems he was being asked to fix that extended beyond his control, he needed to aggressively communicate that to the right people.
    I fear the day you escape from the sheltered life in which you have lived lo these many years; your head will simply implode from the inaniety of a real-world existence. Believe it or not, it can be quite difficult to aggressively communicate with the right people when everyone is under the impression they are your boss, or worse, when the person who is your actual boss refuses to listen and instead refers you to the psuedo-bosses.

    Imagine, if you will, explaining to your boss, an Office Manager, the GM, two VP's and your staff, that it's a bad idea to buy 5+ year old computer equipment, including laser printers, at auction (issues with lack of warranty, repair costs, parts availability, etc.). Fast forward the day of the auction and repeated reminders to not buy computer equipment, to the point of asking your boss to be allowed to attend the auction to help interfere with that eventuality. Then attending the auction and again, reminding the Office Manager not to bid on equipment, just furniture, then watching the Office Manager bid on every printer and Computer lot that came up, winning enough equipment to supply the current needs of the office.

    Fast forward 6 months; every PC is either broken or been replaced for performance reasons, the printers are now failing on a monthly basis and you, the IT person who VERY aggressively communicated all of the issues prior to purchase, are at fault for 'not maintaining the equipment properly' and causing considerable downtime. Oh, and to top it off, when suggesting that the downtime could be avoided with new equipment purchases, being told that retiring equipment is not in the budget, we only replace items that are broken.

    So, bch, all of your armchair quarterbacking is no substitute for exposure to the real world, where you would quickly come to realize that your misguided fantasies are like competitors in the Special Olympics... just fucking retarded.

    I dunno. I bought about 10 used Dell Optiplexes (2.5GHz PIV) on eBay, and a used HP LJ 8100 printer, and a PE 2650 server, and three HP Procurve switches, and lots of other misc stuff (accessories, RAM, etc) for the lab where I work. If you know what to get and from whom, and have some engineering skills, it'd pretty doable. The LJ 8100 printer has got 1.3mil pages on it and after a $50 service kit (on top of $350 purchase price) it runs better (faster, better imaging) than our other LJ 8000 with 300k pages on it (bought new).

    A clueless office manager buying PCs - that's truly a WTF.

    You need someone with relevant know-how to do that. Someone who, preferably, can service the stuff too (or guide the PFY). Most "standard" IT servicepeople are pretty useless ($250 to change a $25 part in a $350 printer - WTF? - and $100 to diagnose?!). I've managed to fix an older PE server with a broken signal track on the PC board (took about 7-8 hours, but it works!), and a reasonaly recent (1yo) Compaq notebook with a shorted ceramic capacitor (1206 form factor). You do need a combination of electronics, mechanical and IT knowledge to be good at that, but what the heck, I have it, so why not use it :)

  • Jimbo (unregistered) in reply to JT Wenting
    Zemyla:
    ALTER TABLE?

    What the hell are they doing, storing client data as column names?

    I think M$ CRM does this.

    But don't tell if somebody ask, because it's copyrighted, it's industrial secrecy :)

  • Martin (unregistered)

    The world is cruel

    http://www.dilbert.com/comics/dilbert/archive/images/dilbert2033334071113.gif

  • Holy Roller (unregistered) in reply to BiggerWTF
    BiggerWTF:
    I'm interviewing right now, and one of the things I'm looking for is a candidate who ask questions about the company, the people who work here, the environment, specific tasks, tools, technologies, etc.

    I won't even consider a candidate who is not interested enough to ask those questions. They might be the best talent I can find, but we might not be somewhere they want to work. That needs to be sorted out before they start working here.

    I wouldn't want to work for you - seems you are a self aggrandized ass wipe.

  • regeya (unregistered)

    It would be funny, except I understand having to answer to everyone else, and getting the blame when anything goes wrong, even when it's someone else's fault After all, I'm the "techie," and having someone fail to save their work is a "tech problem," so it's up to me to try to recover data when someone doesn't save their work and the power goes out, right? And the inability to do so constitutes failure on my part, right?

  • I Can't Tell You (unregistered)

    OMG!!! For a moment there I thought this was about the company where I work! I just replaced a Sergey... only he didn't leave the company. I don't know how he managed to have the patience to stay all these years... shakes head in despair

Leave a comment on “Doomed from the Start”

Log In or post as a guest

Replying to comment #:

Log Out

« Return to Article