• (cs) in reply to Code Slave
    Code Slave:
    When anonymizing dead tree mail: 1) BLACK out (not blur) critical info 2) Remember to do the Zip code too.

    There always has to be at least one a$$hole in every forum, doesn't there? Thanks for filling the requirement here.

  • MeRp (unregistered) in reply to tdb
    tdb:
    värttinä:
    At the place I work there are two lifts; the first goes down to floor 1 and the bigger one goes to floor -1. There's no button for "floor 0" anywhere; I can't recall seeing one in Finland.
    I don't recall seeing any elevator buttons with "0" in Finland either, but "P" is quite common for the ground floor. When that button exists, the floor above it is labeled "1". When it doesn't, the ground floor is labeled "1". In apartment buildings, this is connected to whether or not there are any apartments on the ground floor - the first floor with apartments is always "1".

    Regarding buildings with multiple basement levels... There's a certain shopping centre near where I work that has floors down to "-5K" (K standing for "kellari" which is Finnish for "basement"). There's an about equal number of floors above the ground if I'm not mistaken.

    Isn't -5K kind of like a double negative then? Like "the -5th basement level" ie a non-basement level, possibly the 5th floor (in either the 0 or 1 indexed floor schemes, since -5(-) = 5)?

    Is Finnish one of those languages where a double negative is still negative?

  • Worf (unregistered)

    Hrm... those elevators with keypads intrigue me... I assume there's a pad on every floor.

    What were to happen if people keyed in all the floors? And then took the stairs, and repeated same on another floor?

    Seems like a fun way to cause the elevator to stop at random floors to annoy everyone inside, without having to be inside to push all the buttons.

    What happens if the same floor is keyed in multiple times? Do more elevators get sent to shuttle between the two floors since there's going to be a crowd going to the same floor?

    Sounds like a good way to DoS an elevator...

  • foo (unregistered) in reply to Smash King
    Smash King:
    Wizard Stan:
    Actually, it's mostly just Europe (and Quebec... weirdos) that use the "1st floor is the floor above ground" system. North America (except Quebec. Seriously, WTF guys?), Russia and Asia use the "ground floor is first floor" system. I think Australia also uses British terms. Hong Kong appears to be split 50/50. That just leaves South America and Africa as the deciding votes. I wasn't able to find any information on how they number their floors.
    In South America we use the smart system too. Above the ground floor there's the first floor. I believe Africa must be the same.

    Hey America what's up with the 1-based floor numbering? Do you base your numbering system on roman numerals? Not the smartest system today eh?

    And not all asia uses the US system; When I was there last Christmas, Indonesia (4th largest country in the world) uses the UK system too.

    captcha: erat (is that an errata with a mistake?)

  • DropDeadThread (unregistered)

    The Brits are on to something here. I'm going to use their floor counting system for everything.

    • I have a quarter in my pocket and a beggar asks if I can spare one. I tell him I have "zero".

    • In a game of Russian Roulette, I offer to go "first" if we use six bullets. The other guy proceeds to blow his brains out and I walk away with the money.

  • (cs) in reply to .
    .:
    Presumably to the first floor - the one above the ground floor in every country except America.
    [citation needed] Assuming you're right, then Skynet must have become self-aware and the rest of the world is run by computers. Humans count from one, not zero. And if a building has THREE floors, it's rather intuitive that the top one is the THIRD floor-- correct me if my ordinality seems a BIT OFF.
  • yah (unregistered) in reply to MeRp
    MeRp:
    tdb:
    värttinä:
    At the place I work there are two lifts; the first goes down to floor 1 and the bigger one goes to floor -1. There's no button for "floor 0" anywhere; I can't recall seeing one in Finland.
    I don't recall seeing any elevator buttons with "0" in Finland either, but "P" is quite common for the ground floor. When that button exists, the floor above it is labeled "1". When it doesn't, the ground floor is labeled "1". In apartment buildings, this is connected to whether or not there are any apartments on the ground floor - the first floor with apartments is always "1".

    Regarding buildings with multiple basement levels... There's a certain shopping centre near where I work that has floors down to "-5K" (K standing for "kellari" which is Finnish for "basement"). There's an about equal number of floors above the ground if I'm not mistaken.

    Isn't -5K kind of like a double negative then? Like "the -5th basement level" ie a non-basement level, possibly the 5th floor (in either the 0 or 1 indexed floor schemes, since -5(-) = 5)?

    Is Finnish one of those languages where a double negative is still negative?

    yeah, right

  • (cs) in reply to Fishy
    Fishy:
    So what is wrong with the first one?

    If it was a 50 storey building should the user be presented 50 unique buttons or a keypad of 10 digits to enter the floor number which can also then cope with floors below ground level?

    No, there should be ≥3 lifts serving different parts of the building.

  • pincho (unregistered) in reply to elbekko

    -1 = First level below ground 0 = Ground level 1 = First level above ground

    It makes perfect sense.

    The sense of this system becomes even more apparent in a building with more than one basement floor (such as the one I am sitting in right now). Labeling the floors as

    -1 = 2 levels below ground 0 = 1 level below ground (i.e. basement) 1 = ground level

    makes no sense whatsoever.

  • (cs) in reply to mathew
    mathew:
    It's perfectly simple and logical.

    To get to the Nth floor, you climb N flights of stairs.

    The American system, on the other hand, to get to the Nth floor you climb (N-1) flights of stairs.

    You mean they have button pads for stairs in Europe? Very odd. How about for escalators?

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to ParkinT
    ParkinT:
    I have always stated it as a Ponderable, why an elevator in a two-story building (like many American shopping malls) has two buttons inside the compartment (one for up and one for down). When you enter such an elevator you have NO CHOICE where you will go. I propose there be NO BUTTONS (maybe just one that says, "GO")

    I used to work in a 2-story building with an elevator. One day I got on the elevator with another person. She stepped up to the buttons and politely asked me, "What floor do you want?" Umm, let's see, the choices are the floor that we're on now, or the other one.

  • Code Slave (unregistered) in reply to KenW
    KenW:
    Code Slave:
    When anonymizing dead tree mail: 1) BLACK out (not blur) critical info 2) Remember to do the Zip code too.

    There always has to be at least one a$$hole in every forum, doesn't there? Thanks for filling the requirement here.

    Yes... they guy who's pointing out the flaws in the security theater is the a$$hole. Or the fact that I've pointed out that its not real security and in fact a appearance of security has made me a fracking-a$$hole

    I'm sure that the fact you can't take a tube of tooth paste and nail clippers on an airliner has made all of us a lot safer.

    By the way, there were WMDs in Iraq - here's the receipts.

  • noname (unregistered)

    Do not read this comment beyond readness.

  • (cs) in reply to Fishy
    Fishy:
    So what is wrong with the first one? If it was a 50 story building should the user be presented 50 unique buttons or a keypad of 10 digits to enter the floor number which can also then cope with floors below ground level?
    Here in Denver, CO, our buildings are relatively modern as we're a newer city. For one that I'm most familiar with, we had three banks of elevators at the ground floor. One served floors 1 through 15. Another did 16 through 30. The third had two elevators that took you to the "sky lobby" where you then pressed a button on the bank opposite that managed floors 30 through 45.

    The city recently completed a new hotel that was nearly as tall: 42. It has two banks of elevators. One manages the lower floors and the other manages the upper floors with the high speed section skipping the lower floors. So, going to the top floor caused your ears to equalize pressure (eustation tubes). The high speed ones are VERY fast (I timed it but since forgot; Something on the order of 24s for the entire building).

  • Sofa King (unregistered) in reply to pincho
    pincho:
    > -1 = First level below ground > 0 = Ground level > 1 = First level above ground > > It makes perfect sense.

    The sense of this system becomes even more apparent in a building with more than one basement floor (such as the one I am sitting in right now). Labeling the floors as

    -1 = 2 levels below ground 0 = 1 level below ground (i.e. basement) 1 = ground level

    makes no sense whatsoever.

    Maybe, but nobody numbers floors that way. There is no "zero" floor. It goes: 2 = Second level above ground 1 = First level above ground B1 = First level below ground B2 = Second level below ground

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to mathew
    mathew:
    It's perfectly simple and logical.

    To get to the Nth floor, you climb N flights of stairs.

    The American system, on the other hand, to get to the Nth floor you climb (N-1) flights of stairs.

    That's assuming you start from floor zero. But that does nothing to address the question, Where is/should floor zero be in relation to the sidewalk?

    With either numbering scheme, to get to the Nth floor from the Mth floor you climb N-M flights of stairs. Whether sidewalk level is zero or one has nothing to do with the logic or the math.

    Maybe I'm falling for the trolls, but I don't understand how what is surely an arbitrary convention -- whether we start counting from one or from zero -- can be inspiring people to such dogmatism. In favor of the "American system", may I point out that almost no one refers to the floor at sidewalk level as "floor zero", indeed I think that was the whole point of the original posting. Europeans refer to it as the "ground floor" and label the button "G". So the argument of the "pro-Europeans" here is that counting 1, 2, 3, etc is illogical, while counting G, 1, 2, etc is intuitively obvious. i.e. we should stick a letter at the beginning of a sequence of digits. Perhaps we should name our floors G, 1, H, 3, B, @, 7, (symbol for the artist formerly known as prince). Would that be better still?

    Sudden inspiration: If I ever somehow have the opportunity to design the elevator buttons for a 17-story building, I think I'll number them 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, A, B, C, D, E, F, 10.

    Or if I ever choose floor numbers for a chemical company, I think I'll number them H, He, Li, etc.

  • Wizard Stan (unregistered) in reply to Harrow
    Harrow:
    Wizard Stan:
    ...The point I'm trying to make is that significantly more countries than just the US use it, and it's quite insulting to be casually lumped in with them.
    Well, okay, but I'm not sure just who was being insulted here...
    The US. A little tongue-in-cheek humour. Sorry, rereading, I do notice it's not too clear.
  • Jay (unregistered)

    Regarding the alumni mailing:

    Obviously this letter was intended for a previous occupant of your address, someone named Mr. Null.

    I am reminded of the man who got a letter addressed to "Occupant", and returned it to the sender with a note saying, "I'm sorry, but there is no one here named 'Occupant'. The people who live here are named 'Resident'."

  • pincho (unregistered) in reply to Sofa King
    Sofa King:
    Maybe, but nobody numbers floors that way. There is no "zero" floor. It goes: 2 = Second level above ground 1 = First level above ground B1 = First level below ground B2 = Second level below ground

    Excactly! And 0 is the floor 'at' the ground level. It is seldom called 0 though, as there tends to be a special name for it in most languages (like ground foor), but numbering wise is treated as such (we already had enough the US/non US discussion by now I guess).

  • Kurgan (unregistered)

    I have seen an elevator that works like that one, with a calculator-like leyboard. It has a "-" button, to enter negative numbers, for the basement (-1) and also a "." button.

    I have been able to enter "1.5" as a floor, hoping the elevator would just stop between floor 1 and floor 2, but sadly it just went to floor 1.

  • R3ap3R (unregistered)

    BOOOOO to the guy who tries the fake dictionary.com thesaurus bullcrap.... the real WTF right there:

    He typed in "Completed." (with a period). When it returned the result page showing no matches (with the period), he removed the period and took a screenshot. Very n00b1sh trick, at that.

  • Some Wonk (unregistered)

    OK, beyond the whole what number is the ground floor debate, how does this system handle two people going to different floors? person one walks in and hits say "5'. Person 2 walks in and wants "3". Does person 2 have to ride up to 5 then down to 3?

  • wds (unregistered) in reply to amischiefr
    amischiefr:
    All you needed to say was "France."

    I mean come on: Elevator guy: "Floor Ma'am?" Smelly French Lady: "Yes, take me to the negative 3rd floor please."

    Cause that makes A LOT of sense...

    It does make a lot of sense. It's the third floor below ground floor. If you refer to it by number that's -3 (if 0 is ground floor, adjust accordingly if ground floor is 1).

    TRWTF is why so many americans seem to have trouble wrapping their heads around what is an enormously logical system. One that even small children seem to understand intuitively, so it can't be that hard. I'm not saying it's better than the other system, though personally I think it's a lot more elegant.

  • (cs)

    I'm very sad. I sifted through four pages of whining and bullshit about the elevator part trying to find more information on that sourceforge one, to be left high and dry.

  • RabidToaster (unregistered) in reply to Robby

    I'm pretty sure if you try to go to floor pi you end up going in circles.

  • Too Lazy To Register Jr. (unregistered) in reply to Some Wonk
    Some Wonk:
    OK, beyond the whole what number is the ground floor debate, how does this system handle two people going to different floors? person one walks in and hits say "5'. Person 2 walks in and wants "3". Does person 2 have to ride up to 5 then down to 3?
    Have you ever BEEN in an elevator?
  • ML (unregistered) in reply to Pedro
    Pedro:
    BradC:
    I think y'all are missing the point of the first one: The WTF is that it is a largely non-obvious way to design elevator controls, that requires a taped page of instructions (as opposed to the very simple one-button-per-floor method).

    So its not that the ground floor is 0, its that that the user has to think about what the ground floor is, and type it in instead of having a dedicated button labeled "G" or "0" or whatever. Double WTF for the user having to know that the basement is -1.

    Having to know that the basement is -1 is not really that big a deal. It's pretty standard in several places, even. Having one button per floor can easily become a mess in big buildings, and it's not as though people aren't used to phones, computers, calculators and several other devices that use the exact same keypad layout to introduce numbers with multiple digits.

    So -- how would this "superior" system easily show that the current elevator was heading toward floors 7, 9, and 11? How would 6 people all heading to different floors quickly and easily enter in all their destinations without having to queue up to the single keypad? The "one lighted button per floor" has worked for a very long time -- even in very, very tall buildings.

  • jambriz (unregistered) in reply to Wizard Stan

    in mexico the 1st floor is the floor above ground who cares? if you get past 13th floor (which of course never exists) youre ok again

  • (cs) in reply to Jeremy Sheeley (from SourceGear)
    Jeremy Sheeley (from SourceGear):
    To download SourceGear's free diff tool, go to http://www.sourcegear.com/diffmerge/

    You won't be able to get the "dumbass" tooltip, since the WTF submission was a forgery, but you will get a really awesome free file diff tool (that can copy and paste, I promise).

    I figured as much. Why am I not surprised--faking WTF screenshots?
  • Keith (unregistered) in reply to Enter This

    No, the answer then is "A suffusion of yellow."

  • (cs)

    Absolute addressing is not relocatable and generally a bad idea. Need to go up two floors no matter where you are? Press "2"!

  • (cs) in reply to zolf

    TRWTF is that the basement should be either +0 or -0, and any floor beyond it should have a plus sign before the number.

  • (cs) in reply to Mike
    Mike:
    Well I quoted the wrong guy. I guess my copy /paste from my browser window stopped working.

    Dumbass.

  • (cs) in reply to Kurgan
    Kurgan:
    I have seen an elevator that works like that one, with a calculator-like leyboard. It has a "-" button, to enter negative numbers, for the basement (-1) and also a "." button.

    I have been able to enter "1.5" as a floor, hoping the elevator would just stop between floor 1 and floor 2, but sadly it just went to floor 1.

    No, it went to floor(1.5).

  • Sofa King (unregistered) in reply to pincho
    pincho:
    Sofa King:
    Maybe, but nobody numbers floors that way. There is no "zero" floor. It goes: 2 = Second level above ground 1 = First level above ground B1 = First level below ground B2 = Second level below ground

    Excactly! And 0 is the floor 'at' the ground level. It is seldom called 0 though, as there tends to be a special name for it in most languages (like ground foor), but numbering wise is treated as such (we already had enough the US/non US discussion by now I guess).

    The regional difference is in determining what "first level above ground" means. In some places, e.g., the U.S., "ground level" is widely considered to be a two-dimensional plane where the ground ceases and atmosphere begins. A building story, however, exists in three dimensions, such that a building story in which the ground plane is the floor still exists above ground. (Likewise, an "above-ground swimming pool" is a three-dimensional swimming pool with the ground as its floor, not a swimming pool suspended in the air.) Therefore, the first (1st, or "1") above-ground story is the one resting on the ground.

  • (cs) in reply to Someone You Know
    Someone You Know:
    I once helped out at a wedding reception where the groom, a programmer, had assigned numbers to all (eleven) tables. He didn't assign the head table a number, thinking of it as Table #0. The people setting up the venue looked at the list, saw that the highest number was 10, and only brought 10 tables.

    Zero-based indexing: complicating hackers' weddings since 2006 (at least).

    TRWTF is that he bought that excuse. Surely the head table is a different size/shape than the rest of the guest tables?

  • slapout (unregistered)

    So what happens if you put in -2?

  • DropDeadThread (unregistered) in reply to slapout
    slapout:
    So what happens if you put in -2?

    You strike oil.

  • (cs) in reply to Ground Floor
    Ground Floor:
    OK if you limeys want to call your first floor 0 I'll allow it. But then wouldn't the basement be -0?

    Ever heard of one's complement?

  • (cs) in reply to Kurgan
    Kurgan:
    I have seen an elevator that works like that one, with a calculator-like leyboard. It has a "-" button, to enter negative numbers, for the basement (-1) and also a "." button.

    I have been able to enter "1.5" as a floor, hoping the elevator would just stop between floor 1 and floor 2, but sadly it just went to floor 1.

    Of course it did. It took your input, applied the function floor() upon it and returned the integer part
  • (cs) in reply to Otterdam
    Otterdam:
    rd:
    Press +0.5 for Mezzanine.

    Choose your own elevator music?

    In many parts of the world commercial and/or multi-tenant residential buildings have the ground floor, atop of that one (or rarely sometimes two) mezzanine floor(s) followed by the 1st, 2nd and other floors.

    These mezzanine floors usually house either cheaper apartments, businnesses like beauty parlors, fitness studios or miscancellous administrative offices. very rent is cheaper there because the rooms are smaller, the ceiling is lower and the finishing is of inferior quality compared to the "numbered" floors. All this results in lower rents for the tenants.

  • (cs) in reply to Smash King
    Smash King:
    Wizard Stan:
    Actually, it's mostly just Europe (and Quebec... weirdos) that use the "1st floor is the floor above ground" system. North America (except Quebec. Seriously, WTF guys?), Russia and Asia use the "ground floor is first floor" system. I think Australia also uses British terms. Hong Kong appears to be split 50/50. That just leaves South America and Africa as the deciding votes. I wasn't able to find any information on how they number their floors.
    In South America we use the smart system too. Above the ground floor there's the first floor. I believe Africa must be the same.

    Hey America what's up with the 1-based floor numbering? Do you base your numbering system on roman numerals? Not the smartest system today eh?

    Even Africa is smarter than the USA. They do not even use medieval measuring systems there - they are smart enough to use metric systems.

  • (cs) in reply to ThisIsMe
    ThisIsMe:
    Uh, so if the building only has 5 floors, what happens if I enter 9?

    Do I finally get to meet God? :o

    Nope, just the gatekeeper: St. Peter.

  • (cs) in reply to Wizard Stan
    Wizard Stan:
    Smash King:
    In South America we use the smart system too. Above the ground floor there's the first floor. I believe Africa must be the same.

    Hey America what's up with the 1-based floor numbering? Do you base your numbering system on roman numerals? Not the smartest system today eh?

    It's actually quite intuitive. Building X has 3 floors. We count them: 1 floor, 2 floor, 3 floors! AH AH AH! With the floor on the ground, the one we point to and count "1", that's the first floor. The one above that, we point to and say "2"; that's the second floor. We then point one higher, and say "3", the third floor. I'm sure someone can equally justify the "ground zero" system: it's just two ways of thinking.

    Because your 3-floor-building has only two floors. Ground floor doesn't count.

  • (cs) in reply to SmartAlex
    DumbAlex:
    campkev:
    Pedro:
    IT Girl:
    I just want to know where pressing "1", "3" would take you. Since in the North America vs the rest of the world debate, we tend to avoid the 13th floor here in North America due to a significant amount of Triskadekaphobia.

    Screw you and your silly superstitions then :). Our elevators takes us to the 13th floor, which lies between the 12th and the 14th, just like the well-ordered element of N it is. (Incidentally, if that's true, no citizen of the united states has the moral authority to complain about our floor numbering system :P)

    Japan can't say anything either then, as they frequently skip the 4th floor for the same reason.

    They skip the 4th floor due to triskadekaphobia?

    They skip it because four is considered an unlucky number, the same reason we skip the thirteenth floor. The Japanese words for "four" and "death" are homophones, hence the superstition

  • (cs) in reply to BradC
    BradC:
    I think y'all are missing the point of the first one: The WTF is that it is a largely non-obvious way to design elevator controls, that requires a taped page of instructions (as opposed to the very simple one-button-per-floor method).

    So its not that the ground floor is 0, its that that the user has to think about what the ground floor is, and type it in instead of having a dedicated button labeled "G" or "0" or whatever. Double WTF for the user having to know that the basement is -1.

    It also makes no provision for illiterate elevator users.

  • bramster (unregistered) in reply to Pedro
    Pedro:
    BradC:
    I think y'all are missing the point of the first one: The WTF is that it is a largely non-obvious way to design elevator controls, that requires a taped page of instructions (as opposed to the very simple one-button-per-floor method).

    So its not that the ground floor is 0, its that that the user has to think about what the ground floor is, and type it in instead of having a dedicated button labeled "G" or "0" or whatever. Double WTF for the user having to know that the basement is -1.

    Having to know that the basement is -1 is not really that big a deal. It's pretty standard in several places, even. Having one button per floor can easily become a mess in big buildings, and it's not as though people aren't used to phones, computers, calculators and several other devices that use the exact same keypad layout to introduce numbers with multiple digits.

    Keypad devices are a pain. I use a calculator that has every number from 1 to a million on it. It's great for the weight-conscious. I punch in a number, put on my walking shoes, punche in the operator, more walking, punch in another number, and walk over to the enter key. The answer shows up on the Jumbotron at Rogers Stadium. The triathlete version has the 1000000 keys in random sequence.

  • SmartAlex (unregistered) in reply to campkev
    campkev:
    SmartAlex:
    campkev:
    Pedro:
    IT Girl:
    I just want to know where pressing "1", "3" would take you. Since in the North America vs the rest of the world debate, we tend to avoid the 13th floor here in North America due to a significant amount of Triskadekaphobia.

    Screw you and your silly superstitions then :). Our elevators takes us to the 13th floor, which lies between the 12th and the 14th, just like the well-ordered element of N it is. (Incidentally, if that's true, no citizen of the united states has the moral authority to complain about our floor numbering system :P)

    Japan can't say anything either then, as they frequently skip the 4th floor for the same reason.

    They skip the 4th floor due to triskadekaphobia?

    They skip it because four is considered an unlucky number, the same reason we skip the thirteenth floor. The Japanese words for "four" and "death" are homophones, hence the superstition

    whoosh

    Thank you for missing the humor. Saves more for everyone else. Thanks also for correcting the nick. 'preciate it.

  • (cs) in reply to Fishy
    Fishy:
    So what is wrong with the first one?

    If it was a 50 storey building should the user be presented 50 unique buttons or a keypad of 10 digits to enter the floor number which can also then cope with floors below ground level?

    One button per permitted destination floor. Everything else is insane - if one button on a numeric keypad fails then 5 out fifty floors can not be accessed.

  • (cs) in reply to Jay
    Jay:
    Maybe I'm falling for the trolls, but I don't understand how what is surely an arbitrary convention -- whether we start counting from one or from zero -- can be inspiring people to such dogmatism.
    You must be new here. At the slightest half-chance of a "US vs. rest of world" debate, somebody posts a "the X are so incredibly stupid/arrogant" post, probably more often a troll than not. Then a bunch of "I hate the USA and their way is stupid" retards and "I am an American and our way is the only" retards jump to it, assisted by a number of people pretending to be either just to keep the altercation heated. I hope the last group is the largest, but I fear it's not. It's silly, often annoying, sometimes amusing, but that's just the way it is. It's the same with VB-bashing here (just for the record, TRWTF is using VB).
    Jay:
    In favor of the "American system", may I point out that almost no one refers to the floor at sidewalk level as "floor zero", indeed I think that was the whole point of the original posting. Europeans refer to it as the "ground floor" and label the button "G".
    Not necessarily. While it would be extraordinary indeed if it were referred to as "floor zero" in speech (except, at my old uni, every building had "Ebene n" with 0 being ground level, negative numbers for below-ground floors, and everybody said "Ebene Null" or "nullte Ebene"), I have used many lifts which had buttons ...2,1,0,-1(,-2,-3). But buttons ...2,1,E/G,U/B(Un/bn for more than one floors below ground level) are more common.
    Jay:
    So the argument of the "pro-Europeans" here is that counting 1, 2, 3, etc is illogical,
    I think the argument is rather that having 3,2,1,B1,B2 is illogical. It would indeed become a WTF if you changed the convention to 3,2,1,-1,-2.
    Jay:
    Or if I ever choose floor numbers for a chemical company, I think I'll number them H, He, Li, etc.
    Neat. And use symbols for anti-matter for the floors below ground level.

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