The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
Mark:
Hey! I program in VB.NET.
Ok, sure I'd LIKE to be programming in C#, but everything was already done in VB.NET when I started this job.
Don't let that stop you. My current place of work used VB.NET exclusively, just because they thought the familiarity of VB-like syntax would make life easier for the developers (typical dumb management decision). One month and three Powerpoint presentations later, I had convinced them that C# was the superior language and we went fowards using it for all newly developed classes. We had a couple of ex-VB coders who weren't too pleased but they picked up C# in no time and haven't looked back. If you ask them today what they would rather use, they will emphatically say "C#".

So, what was your argument for C#? Curious how you pitch programming languages to suits.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Gary:
Not Gary:
Sobriquet:
Gary:
No language feature to properly handle resource release during exceptions leads to error prone Open and Close paradigm, check.

You may want to read up on the Using statement...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/htd05whh%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

"The code inside the Using block should not assign the object in resourcename to another variable. When you exit the Using block, the resource is disposed, and the other variable cannot access the resource to which it points."

So much for closures. I ran into this (implicitly, of course) when calling VB objects from JScript or vice versa.

Disclaimer: I am not the original Gary, though I probably have made similar mistakes.

FTFY

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Gary:
Not Gary:
Sobriquet:
No language feature to properly handle resource release during exceptions leads to error prone Open and Close paradigm, check.

You may want to read up on the Using statement...

http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/htd05whh%28v=vs.80%29.aspx

"The code inside the Using block should not assign the object in resourcename to another variable. When you exit the Using block, the resource is disposed, and the other variable cannot access the resource to which it points."

So much for closures. I ran into this (implicitly, of course) when calling VB objects from JScript or vice versa.

Disclaimer: I am not the original Gary, though I probably have made similar mistakes.

But it worked- the resource was freed, which was the original compliant. The resource is properly destroyed when you fall out of the using block context. You shouldn't be assigning the resource anywhere else anyway, that to me is a WTF.

Power Troll · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Franz Kafka:
Anonymous:
Mark:
Hey! I program in VB.NET.
Ok, sure I'd LIKE to be programming in C#, but everything was already done in VB.NET when I started this job.
Don't let that stop you. My current place of work used VB.NET exclusively, just because they thought the familiarity of VB-like syntax would make life easier for the developers (typical dumb management decision). One month and three Powerpoint presentations later, I had convinced them that C# was the superior language and we went fowards using it for all newly developed classes. We had a couple of ex-VB coders who weren't too pleased but they picked up C# in no time and haven't looked back. If you ask them today what they would rather use, they will emphatically say "C#".

So, what was your argument for C#? Curious how you pitch programming languages to suits.

QFE. Offer up those .ppts for us big guy.

Nagesh · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

I think tblCustomerMaster is a staging table.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Case in point; I support an application that loads data from an FTP site... it deletes the "employee" table first, and then when the FTP transfer fails (30% of the time), we're screwed.

Jaime · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

D-Coder:
OldCoder:
airdrik:
This actually looks pretty straight-forward. Granted you should probably put the whole thing in a transaction so that when something fails (like it running out of memory - which of course will never happen because they'll never have so many customers that they can't store them all with their address, etc. in memory) that they will still have something in the web database to serve their customers, even if it is out-of-date. And granted they strip all of the single-quotes out of the string fields rather than looking up how to properly accept arbitrary strings (parametrized expressions). Or they could set up real replication, assuming they are using a database that supports it.
Aside from fixing the quotes issue (and using truncate rather than delete), the one other change I would propose would be to store only one customer entry at-a-time and insert it immediately (batching the inserts).

Not really a WTF, though.
So... you're entirely comfortable with the fact that he reads the entire table into an array in memory and then writes it out to the new table?

Assuming there is some non-trivial work to be done on the way through, what about read a record, write a record, loop till end?
That would be a whole lot of individual hits on the database server instead of a single "read-'em-all" hit, yes? Although I doubt this coder could figure it out, it might be a lot more efficient.

"Read a record, write a record" can be implemented on a multi-record stream using a DataReader. In the newest version of .Net, with SQL Server 2008, you can stream the results of one statement into another statement.

BTW, Gary's code not only stores the entire customer list in an array, it also stores the entire customer list in a DataTable. The entire "read customers into array" loop is not only stupid, but redundantly stupid.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

OldCoder:
airdrik:
This actually looks pretty straight-forward. Granted you should probably put the whole thing in a transaction so that when something fails (like it running out of memory - which of course will never happen because they'll never have so many customers that they can't store them all with their address, etc. in memory) that they will still have something in the web database to serve their customers, even if it is out-of-date. And granted they strip all of the single-quotes out of the string fields rather than looking up how to properly accept arbitrary strings (parametrized expressions). Or they could set up real replication, assuming they are using a database that supports it.
Aside from fixing the quotes issue (and using truncate rather than delete), the one other change I would propose would be to store only one customer entry at-a-time and insert it immediately (batching the inserts).

Not really a WTF, though.
So... you're entirely comfortable with the fact that he reads the entire table into an array in memory and then writes it out to the new table?

Assuming there is some non-trivial work to be done on the way through, what about read a record, write a record, loop till end?

You missed the sarcasm in the not-running-out-of-memory comment. Yes I am not comfortable with the fact that he reads the entire table into memory.

D-Coder:
That would be a whole lot of individual hits on the database server instead of a single "read-'em-all" hit, yes? Although I doubt this coder could figure it out, it might be a lot more efficient.

So you batch the inserts (either using whatever batching mechanisms are available on the connection/transaction, or by concatenating every N query strings). Besides the current code reads all entries and then inserts them one-at-a-time anyway.

Of course the optimal solution would be to do this entirely on the database side, preferably using replication to sync the data between the two databases (or use truncate + select into), and move the "select store" entry from the database to the web application.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.
This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.
If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

Nagesh · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Power Troll:
Franz Kafka:
Anonymous:
Mark:
Hey! I program in VB.NET.
Ok, sure I'd LIKE to be programming in C#, but everything was already done in VB.NET when I started this job.
Don't let that stop you. My current place of work used VB.NET exclusively, just because they thought the familiarity of VB-like syntax would make life easier for the developers (typical dumb management decision). One month and three Powerpoint presentations later, I had convinced them that C# was the superior language and we went fowards using it for all newly developed classes. We had a couple of ex-VB coders who weren't too pleased but they picked up C# in no time and haven't looked back. If you ask them today what they would rather use, they will emphatically say "C#".

So, what was your argument for C#? Curious how you pitch programming languages to suits.

QFE. Offer up those .ppts for us big guy.

We have cleverer presentation that convince clients to use MVC. All you need to tell them is that this will cost less to make change later. This usually has client reaching around for his cheque-book.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
Do you know linux user group is called L-USER group? Are you a L-USER?

Another use comes from Linux software that has been internationalized for French-speakers: l'user.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Ravindra Sirinikrishnavasmorestufflongunpronouncablename:
Web? Web? Did someone say web? Oooh, I know this one, let me!
Send the entire database to the browser. Hack together some script to extract the stuff I want, blithely ignoring those who have scripts shut off. Use AJAX, SOAP, REST, XML and whatever other acronyms I can think of (except ATOM) to pull the selected record from the database again even though it is already in memory. As the user tabs from input to input, post the whole thing back to the database even though nothing has changed, leading to 8 second response time (during the demo; longer as the data gradually populates). Hope our site never has more than one concurrent user making updates.

Did I get it right?

I'm sure I have Shift-Deleted your work in the past...

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

+1

Nagesh · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

Are your arms strong enough? What if developer is girl?

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

Are your arms strong enough? What if developer is girl?

A. Yes B. Never met a Girl named "Gary" before.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Jeff:
Case in point; I support an application that loads data from an FTP site... it deletes the "employee" table first, and then when the FTP transfer fails (30% of the time), we're screwed.

You still run the risk of an airplane crashing through your roof, or heck, a bus running through your front door. Maybe Nagesh and his taxi will let themselves in.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Zylon:
The title of today's WTF gave me Fallout 3 flashbacks.
Too... many... Garys...

Pssst: "Fallout: New Vegas"

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

frits:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.
I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

Well first off, that last point was entirely sarcasm. Secondly, a fantastically US-Centric attitude there. As it happens i don't live or work in any "State".

Power Troll · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
frits:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.
I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

Well first off, that last point was entirely sarcasm. Secondly, a fantastically US-Centric attitude there. As it happens i don't live or work in any "State".

Wow, you just got massively trolled. Your analysis, however, is spot on.

One more thing - the internet doesn't exist outside the 50 U.S. Nice try.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Power Troll:
Tony:
frits:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.
I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

Well first off, that last point was entirely sarcasm. Secondly, a fantastically US-Centric attitude there. As it happens i don't live or work in any "State".

Wow, you just got massively trolled. Your analysis, however, is spot on.

One more thing - the internet doesn't exist outside the 50 U.S. Nice try.

Hmm...Fair Point. In Fact, there probably isn't a rest-of-the-world outside the US either...rendering the phrase "outside the US" itself an exercise in doublethink.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

If "the rest of the world" doesn't exist, where did they send all our jobs?

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Fred:
If "the rest of the world" doesn't exist, where did they send all our jobs?

Yucca Mountain. The radiation causes the language/accent differences.

Captcha: Sagaciter...yes, citing them all in prose and poetry!

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
Power Troll:
Tony:
frits:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.
I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

Well first off, that last point was entirely sarcasm. Secondly, a fantastically US-Centric attitude there. As it happens i don't live or work in any "State".

Wow, you just got massively trolled. Your analysis, however, is spot on.

One more thing - the internet doesn't exist outside the 50 U.S. Nice try.

Hmm...Fair Point. In Fact, there probably isn't a rest-of-the-world outside the US either...rendering the phrase "outside the US" itself an exercise in doublethink.

Haven't you ever read the map? Anything outside of North America is "Thar be dragons! Arrrrr!"

captcha: vulputate. i feel dirty just typing it.

Matt Westwood · 2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Tony:
Power Troll:
Tony:
frits:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.
I'm pretty sure you could spend life in prison or be killed depending on what state you commit this atrosity.

Your not too smart, are you?

Well first off, that last point was entirely sarcasm. Secondly, a fantastically US-Centric attitude there. As it happens i don't live or work in any "State".

Wow, you just got massively trolled. Your analysis, however, is spot on.

One more thing - the internet doesn't exist outside the 50 U.S. Nice try.

Hmm...Fair Point. In Fact, there probably isn't a rest-of-the-world outside the US either...rendering the phrase "outside the US" itself an exercise in doublethink.

There's no such thing as "outside the US". The US owns the entire universe, they just haven't bothered to tell anybody. The pieces of land that people in general think of as the US, situated between Canada and Mexico, west of Canada and a bunch of islands in the Pacific, that's the jail..

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

LinuxUser:
Linux User Groups are more commonly refered to by 'LUG'

"Lock Up Garage" (SLUGs and DLUGs - Single and Double)

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Sobriquet:
Nagesh:
Gary not heard of parameters collections?

Worse, Gary's never heard of attaching a table from a remote database. The whole thing could be one line of SQL, possibly even wrapped in a transaction.

Attaching a wooden table to a remote DB? Don't be daft!

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

ExceptionHandler:
Kuba:
James:
im very surpised that noone has commented on the inherent danger in _deleting_ all the records prior to making the update, then opening a new connection to insert everything (except 's) back in again.
i mean, do you think a table called 'tblCustomerMaster' might contain important stuff?
That's so funny since Alex has been warning precisely about this scenario in his <a rel="nofollow" href=""http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Testing-Done-Right.aspx"" target="_blank" title=""http://thedailywtf.com/Articles/Testing-Done-Right.aspx"">yesterday's rant.

Today's dilbert relates directly with Alex's most recent soap box...

http://dilbert.com/strips/comic/2011-03-24/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+DilbertDailyStrip+%28Dilbert+Daily+Strip%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher

http://dilbert.com/fast/2011-03-24 You're welcome.

2011-03-24 Reply Admin

Fred:
If "the rest of the world" doesn't exist, where did they send all our jobs?

Nagesh and his cronies (working somewhere within the US, but juut where is a secret: Shhhhh).

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Dr. Ros De'Ath:
Thanks a bunch Gary, there's a good reason why I have an apostrophe in my surname you know.

But Gary's heard something about database updates and apostrophes causing problems.

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Yeah ... they didn't want to be knowns as "Lusers..."

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Disclaimer: I'm not bashing Linux. I have in fact been a "Luser", for the past 15 years or so. Unfortunately, my primary workstation at the office has always been Windoze. This, it seems, is about to change. I can't wait.

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

The Lone Nevadan:
Fred:
If "the rest of the world" doesn't exist, where did they send all our jobs?

Yucca Mountain. The radiation causes the language/accent differences.

Captcha: Sagaciter...yes, citing them all in prose and poetry!

Is that where Nagesh lives?

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Btw, where's Nagesh?

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

I disagree, no names will have apostrophes that should be there ;-)

Anon:
Just stating the obvious: There are millions of addresses and names which may have apostrophes for a very good reason, and just omiting them may even change their meaning ...
But apart from that - what about the good ol' TRUNC command? Ah, let me guess: not supported by ASP.Net. OK, I get it.

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Bill Frist:
non-tea:
Jake OBrien:
Hey, what happened to my name?

It became Frist.

Hey, leave me outta this!

I recall that being the method of dealing with Bill Frist in Presidential primary campaigns, just leave him out of it.

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Power Troll:
Franz Kafka:
Anonymous:
Mark:
Hey! I program in VB.NET.
Ok, sure I'd LIKE to be programming in C#, but everything was already done in VB.NET when I started this job.
Don't let that stop you. My current place of work used VB.NET exclusively, just because they thought the familiarity of VB-like syntax would make life easier for the developers (typical dumb management decision). One month and three Powerpoint presentations later, I had convinced them that C# was the superior language and we went fowards using it for all newly developed classes. We had a couple of ex-VB coders who weren't too pleased but they picked up C# in no time and haven't looked back. If you ask them today what they would rather use, they will emphatically say "C#".

So, what was your argument for C#? Curious how you pitch programming languages to suits.

QFE. Offer up those .ppts for us big guy.

Wish I still had them but it's been a few years and I've got a new workstation since then, I don't think they survived that transition. But they were pretty much what you'd expect - comparing language features with a focus on the stuff that seems scary/relevant to management. Obviously VB.NET's "explicit" and "strict" options and how developers could turn them off at will, even management got that one without much explanation. Coding standards were covered, how the Visual Studio IDE would help enforce them via autoformating (which was always better and more configurable for C# code). At that time there were actually more features in C# so that got a mention as well, although that mostly changed when VS2005 came out (operator overloading was one feature if memory serves). Wish I still has the PPTs, if I find them I'll update this thread.

dohpaz42 · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Tony:
Hmm...Fair Point. In Fact, there probably isn't a rest-of-the-world outside the US either...rendering the phrase "outside the US" itself an exercise in doublethink.

+1 for the 1984 reference

(BTW, TRWTF is that Apple has patented the "Telescreen")

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Did the never hear of SQL replication at this place? It's been around for some time now. Or, how about a VIEW, if it's in the same database?

Nagesh · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Tony:
Nagesh:
Tony:
As a DBA, I can assure you of three things:

the data integrity in this syetm blows. Obviously they aren't using foreign keys, and using "flush and fill" is guaranteed to screw things up royally.

This database is managed entirley by "app developers", with all the crap that entails.

If i ever meet this "developer", I may break his neck.

Are your arms strong enough? What if developer is girl?

A. Yes B. Never met a Girl named "Gary" before.

Ever hear of boy named "Sue"??

Nagesh · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Donald:
Disclaimer: I'm not bashing Linux. I have in fact been a "Luser", for the past 15 years or so. Unfortunately, my primary workstation at the office has always been Windoze. This, it seems, is about to change. I can't wait.

All our java apps are using linux for hosting service. I am LUser just like you. Development is done in Eclipse and Windows 7 machine - 32 bit only.

**Askimet you crappy robot, are you serious?*** **Alex, here's an example of comment did not post.

somedude · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Middleware handling database replication is a pretty big WTF.

TRWTF is how few comments are pointing out that this code should not even exist, that when the decision was made to write this code, the bunk had already been humped. The pooch had already been screwed. The bed had already been crapped.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

airdrik:
This actually looks pretty straight-forward. Granted you should probably put the whole thing in a transaction so that when something fails (like it running out of memory - which of course will never happen because they'll never have so many customers that they can't store them all with their address, etc. in memory) that they will still have something in the web database to serve their customers, even if it is out-of-date. And granted they strip all of the single-quotes out of the string fields rather than looking up how to properly accept arbitrary strings (parametrized expressions). Or they could set up real replication, assuming they are using a database that supports it.
Aside from fixing the quotes issue (and using truncate rather than delete), the one other change I would propose would be to store only one customer entry at-a-time and insert it immediately (batching the inserts).

Not really a WTF, though.

I hope that's sarcasm. You're normally on the ball with this. This whole thing could be replaced with a DELETE and an INSERT.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Dave:
According to the description, this is supposed to be copying from one database into another. Assuming they didn't really mean copying from one table to another in the same database (because that would be a trivial SQL statement), does it bother anybody else that conn isn't declared or assigned anywhere? It looks like it's all done with the same connection and therefore to the same database.
Stripping out the single quotes is a poor attempt at preventing SQL injection. Parameter collections are much better.

SQL Server has linked servers that let you query Database B from a connection to Database A assuming that A has a link to B.

2011-03-25 Reply Admin

airdrik:
I suppose a WTF is that there is nothing to tell you which databases are being used without looking up how conn and CustomerData are created; it looks like they could just as well be using the same connection in which case it would look like they are deleting everything in the table and then copying from the freshly deleted table to itself.

Sounds like quite a good idea, if you want the job done quickly.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Mark:
Hey! I program in VB.NET.
Ok, sure I'd LIKE to be programming in C#, but everything was already done in VB.NET when I started this job.

And now you know the pain of the poor soul who had to clean it up.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

OldCoder:
airdrik:
This actually looks pretty straight-forward. Granted you should probably put the whole thing in a transaction so that when something fails (like it running out of memory - which of course will never happen because they'll never have so many customers that they can't store them all with their address, etc. in memory) that they will still have something in the web database to serve their customers, even if it is out-of-date. And granted they strip all of the single-quotes out of the string fields rather than looking up how to properly accept arbitrary strings (parametrized expressions). Or they could set up real replication, assuming they are using a database that supports it.
Aside from fixing the quotes issue (and using truncate rather than delete), the one other change I would propose would be to store only one customer entry at-a-time and insert it immediately (batching the inserts).

Not really a WTF, though.
So... you're entirely comfortable with the fact that he reads the entire table into an array in memory and then writes it out to the new table?

Assuming there is some non-trivial work to be done on the way through, what about read a record, write a record, loop till end?

One array per column, you mean...

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Zylon:
The title of today's WTF gave me Fallout 3 flashbacks.
Too... many... Garys...

Scariest. Vault. Ever.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Fred:
If "the rest of the world" doesn't exist, where did they send all our jobs?

Judging from my applicant pool, those who get our outsourced jobs take their first paycheck and move here to the states. And then send me their resume's.

hoodaticus · 2011-03-25 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
The pieces of land that people in general think of as the US, situated between Canada and Mexico, west of Canada and a bunch of islands in the Pacific, that's the jail..

THIS! +55555

Gary Strikes Again

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