• Phil (unregistered) in reply to Bob

    Good question :)

    I have no idea. Almost everyone I know refers to it as a 'bank card' or 'cash card'.

    I don't think I've ever heard anyone I know refer to it as an 'ATM' or 'ATM card'!

    I was supposed to be tongue in cheek too :)

  • BoxerM (unregistered)

    In Hong Kong, banking is done with your government ID card. If you don't have it, they want address proof, birth certificate, signatures, security questions or an account with more than 500K in it.

  • the real wtf fool (unregistered) in reply to Dhericean
    Dhericean:
    I must admit I was not aware that in the UK you could obtain a card from a bank such as the Halifax which can be used for ATM withdrawals and nothing else. Are you sure?

    The reason it is called a debit card (in the UK) is that the amount is immediately debited from the associated account, rather than a credit card where you are "loaned" the money to be repaid later. Nothing to do with the use - whether you use the card to pay at a shop, withdraw money (possible as part of a payment transaction with a debit card in most UK supermarkets etc.), or paying for those "interesting" websites, the money is debited at the time of the transaction.

    So I suspect a card limited to only withdrawals from ATMs would still be referred to as a debit card if it was associated with a bank account.

    check it out: http://www.nationwide.co.uk/current_account/managing_your_account/cash_card_account.htm

    "However it does not give you ... a VISA debit card"

    A debit card will allow you to pay for stuff in shops, through one of the CC companies (e.g. visa). A cash card just identifies you to the bank's machines so you can take money out of the cash points.

  • the real wtf fool (unregistered) in reply to Phil
    Phil:
    I was supposed to be tongue in cheek too :)

    This is the internets remember. tongue-in-cheekness must be replied to with pedantic seriousness. Seriousness must be replied to with tongue-in-cheekness. Now you just have to follow the rule to work out the sense of this post...

  • (cs) in reply to Dhericean
    Dhericean:
    the real wtf fool:
    x:
    Bob:
    I'm English, I say "ATM card" or "cash card". I didn't realise there was an official version. What is it?
    Debit card.
    <pedantry> It's not that. A debit card is for paying for things at the shops. You can get a card for withdrawing money from the bank that is not a debit card </pedantry>

    I have no idea what whoever started this sub-thread is looking for though - I just call them cash cards.

    I must admit I was not aware that in the UK you could obtain a card from a bank such as the Halifax which can be used for ATM withdrawals and nothing else. Are you sure?

    The reason it is called a debit card (in the UK) is that the amount is immediately debited from the associated account, rather than a credit card where you are "loaned" the money to be repaid later. Nothing to do with the use - whether you use the card to pay at a shop, withdraw money (possible as part of a payment transaction with a debit card in most UK supermarkets etc.), or paying for those "interesting" websites, the money is debited at the time of the transaction.

    So I suspect a card limited to only withdrawals from ATMs would still be referred to as a debit card if it was associated with a bank account.

    Actually this is not the case. Debit cards are usable as ATM cards but ATM cards are not debit cards. If it doesn't say "Debit Card" on the card, then it is not a debit card.

    I had a huge argument with Nationwide because they issued me with an ATM card not a debit card. When I went in to change it they wanted me to open a new account to issue me with a debit card (a real WTF). I told them I would do that but the new account would not be with them.

  • (cs)

    See, this is why I don't use online banking.

    I used to work with an idiot...somehow they got employed developing online banking services, that kind of killed it for me!

    Yeah, I know you're "protected" from online screw-ups yada-yada-yada but it's still a PITA for you when it goes wrong...and I know they can screw-up in the branches (boy do I know that!) but at least you get to keep half an eye on them while they do it!

  • Sahid (unregistered) in reply to DWalker59

    my signature looks exactly like "SeeId"

  • (cs)

    Slightly different subject but same idea: I got one of those cards through my door from the (UK) Post Office, saying I had a package to collect from the local sorting depot. Actually, the card was only half-stuffed through my letterbox, so could have been pinched by anyone passing my house. I took the card down to the depot, with my passport and a utility bill(just to be sure), and they promptly handed over my package on the basis of the card alone. I said to the guy "I could be anyone, aren't you going to check my ID?", and he replied "No, it's ok, I trust you."! I tried to explain that that wasn't the point, but Post Office staff aren't exactly Mensa candidates over here, and he just took offence at being told how to do his job. Sigh...

  • chris (unregistered) in reply to Flash

    I had a erosproblem with one ATM. The machine took my card and then rebooted windows. I was left with a ctrl-alt-delete screen and no keyboard. The card was "eaten" (actually it sits on a tray inside the machine). I was able to get the bank to return the card straight away (it was my branch, open and I did have other id).

  • Tiago (unregistered)

    When I read your method of signing the card I remember a friend of mine who used to sign his credit card with "PLEASE ASK ID". He was trying to prevent someone using his card if it was lost. Then he went to Moscow, and they made him sign the receipt with.. "PLEASE ASK ID" :)

    T

  • (cs) in reply to Bubs
    Bubs:
    Soviut:
    And yet somehow the world keeps turning. I guess everyone isn't a criminal after all.
    Who said they were? Besides, the convenience for me far outweighs the possibility of abuse, otherwise I wouldn't have the cards in the first place. I'm merely pointing it out.
    Sorry, my tone didn't register very well in my reply. It was meant to be directed more at the "OMGWTF-NO-PIN-NUMBER!?!?!1" people. Your quote was just the perfect springboard for the remark.
  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to IceBox13
    IceBox13:
    alegr:
    Jay:
    When my wife divorced me, she took my name off of our joint account and I opened a new bank account in just my own name at a different bank. ...

    So did you sue her? You could.

    I wouldn't think suing would be an option. I'd think at the most it'd be worthy of contempt of court and an amended divorce decree. But I'm not a lawyer, just a recent divorcee. :)

    I could probably have gone to court and gotten something out of it, but by then I'd spent months going through court proceedings and it was basically over and I didn't want to go through it again. Not to mention that I didn't know how much was in the account. If it was tens of thousands of dollars it might have been worth fighting over, but more likely it was a thousand or two.

    Which reminds me of a mostly irrelevant but possibly amusing incident: I was chatting with a pastor once who mentioned a man who had come to him for advice. He was getting a divorce, and he wondered what was worth fighting over. The pastor asked him a few questions and quickly learned that the couple had basically no money in the bank, they were renting an apartment so there was no house to fight over, he had little use for her clothes and vice versa, etc. The only thing the fellow could think of to fight over was their car, which was getting old and which he guessed might be worth $2,000. The pastor told him it wasn't worth fighting over, he should ask for something but be prepared to just let her have the car. Then the man talked to a lawyer who convinced him to go to court to fight for the car. He tried and lost: she got it. But he did have a $6,000 bill from the lawyer. So he paid $6,000 to play a game where even if he'd won, the prize was only $2,000.

  • Simon Howard (unregistered)

    I lost my Halifax savings account card a year back. While waiting for a new card to arrive, I went into a branch and withdrew something like £1000 from my account using just a bank statement. They never checked my ID, even though I had my passport ready to show them.

    When I realised that anyone could have walked into Halifax and withdrawn money from my account using a statement fished out of a bin, I complained. I got a letter from them but nothing much. I'm planning on moving my account elsewhere real soon now.

  • willgetin (unregistered) in reply to James

    At a nameless bank associated with the company I worked for at that time...

    I walked in to a branch I had never visited and sat at a CSR's desk that I had never met and proceeded to close my account by just telling them my name. They did the work, had me sign a couple of papers, and gave me a cashiers check for several hundred dollars. I walked over to the teller line and cashed the check.

    Not once was I asked for any id of any kind whatsoever or questioned about anything.

    When I got back to my office, I thought, "Man, I should go back and say my boss's name. He's got several mill in there...".

  • Anomynous (unregistered) in reply to ChiefCrazyTalk

    time to ditch that one, mate. MAC is a name brand. ATM is the generic name. you would only say MAC when you're talking about a MAC brand ATM.

  • me (unregistered)

    The real WTF is banks...

  • anon (unregistered) in reply to Jay

    [quote user="Jay] Which reminds me of a mostly irrelevant but possibly amusing incident: I was chatting with a pastor once who mentioned a man who had come to him for advice. He was getting a divorce, and he wondered what was worth fighting over. The pastor asked him a few questions and quickly learned that the couple had basically no money in the bank, they were renting an apartment so there was no house to fight over, he had little use for her clothes and vice versa, etc. The only thing the fellow could think of to fight over was their car, which was getting old and which he guessed might be worth $2,000. The pastor told him it wasn't worth fighting over, he should ask for something but be prepared to just let her have the car. Then the man talked to a lawyer who convinced him to go to court to fight for the car. He tried and lost: she got it. But he did have a $6,000 bill from the lawyer. So he paid $6,000 to play a game where even if he'd won, the prize was only $2,000.[/quote]

    Ah, but SHE probably had to pay close to $6000 in lawyer fees too to keep that $2000 car... so maybe he did "win" a little after all.

  • matt (unregistered)

    Bugger it, damn damn damn damn. is with halifax

    I'm a student and they had the biggest overdraft.... I'm a fooooooooooool! :(

  • Steve (unregistered) in reply to James
    James:
    Then there's Barclays, whose credit card site has a bizarre password system requiring passwords to be all alpha (no numbers or symbols) with at least two different letters from each row of the keyboard, non-adjacent, plus a few other details. They don't actually tell you this, just reject every attempt at a password you enter; eventually, I called the helpdesk, which helpfully informed me that one particular word does meet all the requirements. Brillant security.

    Oh don't get me started on Barclays...

    I recently got moved to them from Woolwich after Barclays bought them out... Had to set up a password for the internet site the first time I tried to use it... At first I tried a combination of my first cars registration number, post code and mobile number (part of each), and it was rejected because it had to be between 6-8 characters (wtf!) So I came up with an 8 character one, only to be told that no numerics were allowed, just a-z. So I came up with a good a-z based one, but no, I had too many repeated letters. (It was aaarrggh) I eventually got it set, it's not a nice word!

    A few months later (to improve online security) they sent us all these stupid code calculator things you have to plug your chip and pin card into, it gives you an 8 digit number, and you have to use this to log into the site. Correction, I say they sent out... They only posted them after you'd rung them and said "Oiy! I can't set up a new payee!".

    Needless to say, I don't want to have to carry this stupid thing about with me all the time, so I'm looking for another bank that will accept a secure password from an IT professional.

  • Frank (unregistered)

    As someone who used to work in a grocery store the people who signed it See ID always annoyed me. We had specific policies on when to check for ID and when not to, so when someone comes through with it signed like that I remember thinking that the person is going to wonder why I ignored it, but it is not because I am not paying attention.

    I personally don't understand it. It says to sign it, so just sign it.

    People are now worried about the fact that you often swipe the card yourself and cashiers never see the back at all. I just don't get it, keep track of your things and you will have no problems. If your purse or wallet is forcefully taken, call the bank immediately. If you leave your things laying around for someone to take without you knowing you deserve to have your money taken. Have some responsibility.

  • MM (unregistered) in reply to BoxerM
    BoxerM:
    In Hong Kong, banking is done with your government ID card. If you don't have it, they want address proof, birth certificate, signatures, security questions or an account with more than 500K in it.
    (emphasis added) So does that mean that if your account has more than 500K they'll actually lower the security precautions on it to less than what they have for smaller accounts? WTF?
  • (cs)

    Several years ago, I performed some client management best practices at HBOS. If their security is anything like their client management, paper probably gets in the way.

    The first day I was there, they handed me about 1000 pages worth of policies and procedures manuals that likely no one in the company had ever read. There were references to systems that had been deprecated nearly a decade previous.

    I doubt anyone has read their security manuals either.

  • Andrew (unregistered) in reply to Frank

    Amen.

    I hate all this security talk because if you take care of your belongings, you don't run into security trouble.

    I have my original debit card (going on 8 years), original driver's license (4 years), etc. Only card I have that is recent is my health card, and that was because OHIP introduced pics on them. I've also never had any problems with security or fraud.

    Everyone's worried about others covering for their own laziness.

  • (cs) in reply to s.
    s.:
    adiener:

    Okay, just for your convenience:

    He put the card in the ATM then entered the PI Number wrong three times.

    At first he made a mistake around 95th digit, at the other at 98th digit. The third time he got so nervous he just got to enter 3.141593 and his access got disabled.

    How many numbers would be required to withdraw there?

    Or is it a "sliding scale" - you get one dollar for every digit you enter correctly? ;)

  • Stan (unregistered) in reply to s.

    I had a similar wtf the other day. I walked into a distant bank branch I had chosen as the location to close a loan. I had submitted for it in another state, and chose this extra location out of convenience. I walk in, talk to a teller, sign a paper (with all my personal information on it), and they cut me a check for the loan, with the option for cash or direct deposit. Further, I asked for a new debit card, which they quickly produced for me, followed by asking me what PIN# I'd like.

    Not a single ID was shown.

  • Reinier (unregistered)

    This one belongs on <a href=">http://catless.ncl.ac.uk/risks RISKS.

  • Reinier (unregistered)

    This one belongs on RISKS.

  • (cs)

    Stores must hate me.

    1. I never sign anything the same way twice, and none of my signatures even remotely resemble my real name. Sometimes I even get really artistic, creative, and intricate with my scribbles. Sometimes I just get lazy and my scribble vaguely resembles a disproportionate 2. I've been meaning to memorize some celebrity signatures...that sounds like fun. I want to sign as "George W. Bush" while he's still in office, and I want to buy something on election day and sign the receipt as "Barack Obama".

    2. I refuse to show ID when buying something with a credit card. This is why I only buy computer hardware online; I don't give Fry's any of my business. I also had a huge fight at my local comic shop this week: I've been going there every week for eight years and never got asked for ID, yet the idiot newbie working there this week demanded my ID (on a $20 purchase), refused to ring up my credit card, and told me it has been their policy for years to ask for ID on every transaction. The only reason I didn't leave my purchase on the counter and cancel all my subscriptions on the spot was because one of the other employees there recognized me and vouched for me (and I made it clear that if I am ever asked for ID again, I cancel all my subscriptions).

  • Loosely_coupled (unregistered)

    The signature is totally worthless. What is actually useful is that Bank of America puts your photo on their debit cards. It does however lead to interesting situations, as many clerks STILL ask for photo ID. lol

  • (cs) in reply to jgpallack
    jgpallack:
    Stores must hate me. ... 2) I refuse to show ID when buying something with a credit card. This is why I only buy computer hardware online; I don't give Fry's any of my business. I also had a huge fight at my local comic shop this week: I've been going there every week for eight years and never got asked for ID, yet the idiot newbie working there this week demanded my ID (on a $20 purchase), refused to ring up my credit card, and told me it has been their policy for years to ask for ID on every transaction. The only reason I didn't leave my purchase on the counter and cancel all my subscriptions on the spot was because one of the other employees there recognized me and vouched for me (and I made it clear that if I am ever asked for ID again, I cancel all my subscriptions).

    Yes, yes we do. All stores, and Visa, Master Card, Discover Card, and American Express. And banks. That's why we snigger about you behind your back and make note of how fat you are, in addition to you generally being a bad customer. We also put a big picture of you next to our security monitors so that the agents there can tell us you've come by so we can kick you out. Because we hate you.

    </joke remark="just in case you couldn't tell">

  • Hammer (unregistered)

    Ha! They assume so much, thinking that nobody would ever try what you did with someone else's bank card. Physical possession of these cards is trusted away too much (credit cards included).

    I enjoyed your story, so I'll swap you one which is along a similar line as yours: Confidence Is Key

    Thanks for the daily WTF!

  • Peior Crustulum (unregistered)

    Not at all surprising, the same lax security can be found in Norway as well. After having worked at a bank for some time I can think of plenty of ways to acquire personal information on anyone basically.

    This is possible primarily because of the bank's unreasonable trust towards the person they talk to.

    Let's say I find a wallet on the street. All I need to do is go to a pay phone and phone the bank in question, introduce myself as the cashier at another and tell them I have one of their customers there wondering how much he can withdraw from his account.

    This happens all the time, and I've never answered any kind of security question what so ever. All I need is the account number and the targets name.

    Stupid, isn't it?

    There are plenty of WORSE things I could probably do.

    Mind you that all of the time's this has been done on my part was as the cashier at my local bank. Legitimately!

    Security is lax most places, so never trust them to keep any information confidential if someone wants to know about you.

  • Repeating Acronymn Syndrome syndrome (unregistered) in reply to s.
    s.:
    adiener:

    Okay, just for your convenience:

    He put the card in the ATM then entered the PI Number wrong three times.

    At first he made a mistake around 95th digit, at the other at 98th digit. The third time he got so nervous he just got to enter 3.141593 and his access got disabled.

    I love it when people say brilliant things to smart asses who think they know something just because they read a Wikipedia article.

  • insipid (unregistered)

    I know this article is old, now, but I've only just seen it, and I think my own BOS/Halifax story comes close to topping it.

    When they emailed me their latest marketing spam, they got my out-of-office reply. Which their spambot detected, and replied to as follows:

    Your mail to [email protected] has been classified as an autoreply mail due to certain keywords in the from address, subject header or message body and has accordingly been rejected.

    You can either use the web interface to post your message directly or modify your message and try to send it in again. Third possibility is to bypass the check by setting your login passwort in square brackets in the subjectline (e.g. [password]subjecttext).

    Obviously, ignore the spelling and grammar mistakes, and just let your mind wrap around the last suggestion.
  • (cs)

    Im not surprised - I have been the victim of identify fraud, and Halifax seem to open up accounts with the flimsiest of checking. Despite being now registered with an agency that banks are supposed to check applications against, an online account was still opened in my name. The Halifax response ? - "Oh, we dont check that system for online applications"

    And how did these crooks get my details ? - from Companies House (as I am a director). The govt will happily sell you name, address and date of birth to anyone that pays for it, and that is enough to set up an account online ....

    And they want us to trust them with a national identify card ?

  • Brendan (unregistered) in reply to Vollhorst

    Halifax security ? I am just finding out how good they are at looking after valubles inside their branch. Give them your check, passport, birth/marriage certificate to take care of ! They are likely to put it somewhere SO safe that no one will ever find it ! See www.halifax.gb.net or www.line123.com for an example

  • lucy (unregistered)

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  • 🤷 (unregistered)

    Bank security is indeed very lax, especially at the counters. I remember when my grandma wanted to pay money into my brothers account for his birthday. Instead, the teller handed her the money... TAKEN FROM MY BROTHERS ACCOUNT! I mean, sometimes you just make stupid mistakes, sure. But this really is a "worse than failure" mistake to make.

  • Cynthia Glenn (unregistered)
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