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Admin
OK, time to stop the browser wars. Next thing you know you'll all be arguing about which operating system is better and the linux guys will start toning in with which distro is better.
Geez, geeks have some major issues to work out :p
Admin
Admin
Admin
Actually, I can lookup stack traces and design descriptions of where the software that fails me goes wrong. But you were being facetious weren't you.
Admin
Man, you awesome! How awesome?
So awesome!
Admin
And having an overinflated sense of one's own competence is, after all, just so ordinary.
Admin
Nope, sorry buddy, you don't know what you're doing. You've got a lot of money to afford a shiny desktop system, but much like affording a Ferrari doesn't improve driving skill, shiny desktops don't make someone less of an idiot.
You broke your Debian install because you deviated from the normal installation. A lot of people like Debian because it works, it works well, and your experience is nowhere near the norm. A lot of people like Opera, because like Debian, they don't blame their own fuckups on the product itself.
Admin
The funny version of the initial remark can be found on YouTube: How to irritate people.
Maarten
Admin
And what's up with all that JavaScript anyway?
Admin
Admin
Your anecdotal evidence doesn't really disprove the fact that Opera is indeed smaller, faster, and uses less memory than Firefox.
Something on your end is definitely messed up, because what you are seeing is atypical. I regularly have more than 50 tabs open in Opera, and have no problems what so ever.
Admin
Admin
But yes, this is probably just GNOME with some GUI for a package manager, apparently dpkg as someone else mentioned, and a fancy window decoration skin, and the "E:" probably denotes an error.
Occam's Razor, anyone?
Admin
According to my comany's galactic excellence plan for advanced database technology of the future, the MySQL error is that the DBMS isn't Oracle. They say that every time you run an SQL statement on a DBMS other than Oracle, a kitten kills a retard.
Admin
It's the crack. With debian, you want to install a small, tight base system and then boot that up and use the nice package management tools to get the rest of what you want installed on your machine. Those work much better.
Really, while the "small initial install, expand from there" philosophy may not be explicit in the docs[1], I've heard it from enough debian people that even I know it. Again, definitely the crack.
And don't tell me you actually think RPM is better.
Notes: [1] I don't know if it is or isn't in the docs--I've never read the debian install docs, nor have I installed debian myself. My wife uses debian and admins it all on her own. I'm a Slackware guy--that we don't know each others' root passwords is one of the keys to our marriage.
[2] Ok, this wasn't a note in the text above, but one poster said not to start a distro war. So, Slackware is the best, you all suck.
Admin
Given the stupid things I've seen on the web, I can't tell which.
Admin
Maybe the string "Error" was passed to whatever generated the message in Unicode and it was expecting ANSI. I've done that a few times when working with multiple encodings. Of course I'm assuming C/C++/Objective-C.
Admin
The use of "E:" for "Error:" isn't a bug, it's how dpkg and apt output error messages. (I've seen "W:" and "E:" messages from apt-rpm too.)
As for whether RPM is better, well, I've never seen an error like this one from RPM. :-) And RPM also has features dpkg doesn't have, such as soname dependencies (so libraries don't have to carry the soname major version in the package name, which IMHO is an ugly hack) and file dependencies.
As for the browser, Konqueror rulez! :-) And with KDE 4, it'll also be available on the 2 main proprietary operating systems (without requiring X11 or Cygwin), snapshots are already available for both.
Admin
Site assumes mobile phone when it doesn't recognize the user agent string.
Sending "User-Agent: foo" gives a WML reply. Same happens when replacing "foo" with "Opera" or even "IE" or "Firefox". With "Mozilla", though, it sends HTML.
This seems to happen both with Firefox' default Accept header and without any Accept header at all, so the server probably doesn't even try to do proper content negotiation, relying on (broken) browser sniffing instead.
Admin
No, a rock is a high-res device capable of 1x1 pixels.
For 0x0 you need a doughnut
Admin
I did a quick search and came up with:
The first one was due to an error not caused by Firefox, but there could have been better error handling. The second one was not a data loss at all, but there should have been a prompt to automatically rename the directory (or maybe there was, but the user clicked it away?). The third one is a genuine data loss, but if you are using an unjournalled filesystem, you are asking for all sorts of data loss.
Firefox gestures are way more powerful than the Opera equivalent, maybe they can be harder to configure because there are so many options. As a "power user", I'd rather spend some time learning about the capabilities instead of using an easy but limited system.
Funny, I wasn't arguing that FF was god, so no straw men, please. I was rejecting the notion that Opera is better, at least for all users, and explaining the reasons I have for preferring Firefox over Opera most of the time.
Why? If I had to choose between Firefox and sliced bread, it would be a tough decision.
Sure, Firefox has flaws. But so has Opera. And for me, personally, the Firefox flaws weigh less and are less plentiful than the Opera flaws. I'm the last one who would tell others what tool suits them best, but since some troll came around (you or some other "Anon"?) and did exactly that, calling Firefox users "OSS zealots" and saying that Opera was "much better", I felt inclined to respond (yes, I'm a notorious troll feeder, sorry), and challenge his definition of "better". It's certainly not better for me, on the contrary, it's worse.
I know that this Anon responded to an anti-Opera troll in turn, but that will generally not stop me from responding to arguments I perceive as flawed.
Funny, I never was yelled at by Firefox users or developers, but several times by Opera taliban. The usual self-perception of these folks seem to be that they are The Bearers of The Truth (tm) and everyone who still uses Firefox has just managed to remain ignorant of the Greatness of The Opera Browser.
This totally ignores the fact that I have been using Opera on and off for at least 4 years and I am quite aware of its limitations. Needless to say, The Bearers of The Truth generally frown upon such suggestions and say that my use cases for the One True Browser are blasphemous.
Sure, there are Firefox bigots, too, but whatever it is that two Wrongs make when they are all alone together, it certainly isn't little baby Rights.
Of course, I don't want to suggest that all Opera users or even a large minority are such taliban - it's just an acoustic phenomenon that the monkeys that shout the loudest are heard the most, and this phenomenon bears little correlation to the contents of the creed.
Admin
I had older versions of both Firefox and Opera perform runaway memory allocation - the amount of process RAM just grows and grows until the OS tells your mmap() (rsp. VirtualAlloc()) to shove it and the process goes boom.
But it still doesn't compare to elinks.
I often have 150+ tabs open in Firefox. Yes, I shouldn't, but it works fine in FF 2.
Admin
Admin
50? 150 ?!
Damn, I forget what I was doing if I have more than 20 windows open, let alone tabs within windows. If either of you is remotely serious about those numbers, then I shall bow down in awe!
Admin
The E: thing looks like a GTK-based frontend to Debian's package management system. I'm going to go out on a limb here: my guess is someone used gtk-perl and forgot about the way the qx() and
backticksoperators behave differently depending on whether they were called in scalar or list context.As for browsers, Konqueror is my browser of choice; though the text entry area here seems only to have 19 cols x 2 rows.
I will consider installing Opera when they release the Source Code.
Admin
I usually have 10~15 tabs open. Can't see why would someone have 150+ tabs... but of course YMMV.
Admin
About the 'E:' thing. DPKG error messages nearly always start with 'E:'.
Admin
I found another WTF. Go back and check your reading comprehension settings. Windows XP != Debian. PP was making comparison between Opera and Debian.
NOTE: I edited for brevity and clarity.
Admin
(speaking for FF 2.0.0.4) As for FF memory being used as a cache, you can say that all you want. The cache setting option doesn't speak to a difference between disk and memory cache, nor does it seem to affect the memory size of the process. A cache which doesn't have a replacement / release policy will grow without bound. That's effectively a memory leak.
Admin
Why do people say things are "the best thing since sliced bread" ? Store-bought, sliced bread tastes absolutely minging compared to a freshly-baked loaf!
Or am I just a bread snob?
Admin
You shouldn't worship them IMO. I can't fathom why anyone would need that many pages kept open at a given time, other than being too much of a lazy bum to close the tab after reading a page.
The same people then have the galls to complain about excessive memory usage from the tool they're using, when in fact it boils down to a BUE.
Count me in as another bread snob, BTW. Sliced bread is waaaay overrated. :)
Admin
The reason for me using opera is simply the fact that it scales pages much better. ctrl+mousewheel zooms everything TO SCALE. this makes some pages actually readable with 1680 x 1050. when firefox gets this MAYBE i will consider.
Admin
They don't because hyperbole isn't meant to be taken literally...
Admin
You're over 18, aren't you?
The thing that got me about working for a Large Telecoms Company was that they insisted on using a browser as the interface, despite the First World War-level carnage (Hah! No Hitler comparison here!) that ensued.
This was because, as a Large Telecoms Company, they supplied the interface to Even Larger Telecoms Companies. Whose managers believed that they made money out of the Net. And thus insisted on buying only Net technology. (No plug-ins, of course. That would be too sane.)
It withers the soul to work long and pointless hours on inconsequential and insubstantial and unreliable crap just for the purposes of marketing.
Admin
I have to respectfully disagree. I have both Opera and Firefox installed and will use Opera ONLY for testing purposes as it is painfully slow on my computer (both here at hoe and at work). In fact, other than the new Safari for Windows Opera is probably the slowest browser on my computer
Admin
Mhendren: if you set Firefox to send Opera/9 as useragent, that login page will return a WAP document (text/vnd.wap.wml). If you set Opera to send Mozilla useragent, it will display the full login page. Indeed it looks like your server behaves strangely.
In general, Opera works much better for me when having many tabs open (which is the normal case for me) and having the browser open for a long while (which is also the normal case here). If I do the same in Firefox, it either starts getting really slow (clicking a link makes FF unresponsive for three seconds) or it starts displaying tabs and inline frames and whatnot in "own windows" (if you close those, FF exits); the GTK errors on console indicate that something is very wrong then. So: FF only for unimportant pages which I can find again quickly; and Opera is for opening documentation pages and doing "complicated" search excursions :-)
Admin
Scanner - somebody set up us the BOMB!
Admin