• Anon (unregistered)

    Why just fire Jon? The manager should have been fired for hiring a technical guy without talking to any of the technical people who did the interview.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Gedoon
    Gedoon:
    Well at least they can't blame the secretary... I mean, that's the way secretaries are hired, right? All your job qualifications are to look good and dress smart, no actuall skills required.

    You seem to be a little biased, sir. There are lots of skills that a secretary needs, and most places do hire them based on that.

  • (cs) in reply to Christopher

    BEST WTF EVER

  • Marketing droids (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Gedoon:
    Well at least they can't blame the secretary... I mean, that's the way secretaries are hired, right? All your job qualifications are to look good and dress smart, no actuall skills required.

    You seem to be a little biased, sir. There are lots of skills that a secretary needs, and most places do hire them based on that.

    Name one.

  • KNY (unregistered) in reply to ObiWayneKenobi
    ObiWayneKenobi:
    What I meant was that almost all of these WTFs that involve some incompetent who gets hired, said person is almost always a flashy, suave con-artist and wows clueless management with bogus experience and/or buzzword bingo, only to be found out and fired a few months later

    ... If they didn't, they wouldn't be a very good WTF, now would they? It'd be a "normal."

  • (cs) in reply to Marketing droids
    Marketing droids:
    Anon:
    Gedoon:
    Well at least they can't blame the secretary... I mean, that's the way secretaries are hired, right? All your job qualifications are to look good and dress smart, no actuall skills required.

    You seem to be a little biased, sir. There are lots of skills that a secretary needs, and most places do hire them based on that.

    Name one.

    NSFW

  • Barf 4 Eva (unregistered) in reply to David
    David:
    Every company thinks their new employees have to "hit the ground running, working on day one," even though those listings stay open for six months or more. Time enough that if they'd hired and trained someone, they would have a competent team member now instead of nothing but wishful thinking. I'm not saying it's never necessary, but since most every company does it, when one actually needs someone like that they're even less likely to find them.

    I don't think they have to hit the ground running, but to submit pseudo code that obviously doesn't compile? It seems beyond words...

    But you do have a point. It's not Jon's fault that the company was so backwards that he got hired through the secretary, and then placed into a cushy office space by management.. It's precisely management's fault for being ignorant of technical qualifications, and it's precisely management's fault for not being ignorant of the secretary's assessment of Jon's technical qualifications. Seriously backwards if you ask me. Had they just reallocated Jon to peon status, who knows? 6 months down the road he could of been churning out some decent code (but not necessarily the expert level of java code they were looking for...)

  • (cs) in reply to Some Psychologist
    Some Psychologist:
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    There is a term for this, it's called "Functional Alcoholic". Someone who does this occasionally might be a "high-functioning alcoholic" while someone who does it constantly (and nearly or often gets fired) would be a "low-functioning alcoholic".

    However, people are adverse to labels and will attempt to rationalize or justify their behavior. Some may project their reasons on to others (for example, "people like you are the reason I drink", etc.); not realizing that other people are not the ones holding the bottle to their lips.

    Alcoholism is a serious mental illness that has a genetic component. Anybody can get sober, but an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic; regardless their last drink was 1 hour ago or 100 years ago.

    Everybody needs to make their own choices and find their own way. Help anybody who asks you for it, but don't feel sorry for anybody. Enabling an alcoholic to function despite their illness only enables them to sink further into the illness without consequences. If they aren't asking you for help, then butt-out of their lives, and let the chips fall where they may.

    Oh, get the fuck out of here with that crap, both of you. You're ruining a good story with your moralist BS. We all know these stories are anonymized and embellished for narrative purposes here, so we really don't know if anyone really stayed home because of a hangover or if it just made the story more interesting.

    Either way, we're hear to read funny articles relating to "Curious Perversions in Information Technology," not to get preachy life lessons from a busybodied shrink and some "concerned" friend.

  • WTF? (unregistered)

    WTF? I was expecting some type of Penthouse Forum "encounter". This was L A M E.

  • Barf 4 Eva (unregistered) in reply to Concerned

    man, I did once... And it was when the head office peeps came down for a visit and we all went to this bar a little ways from the city. The CEO kept buying me Martinis, because at the time, I was the fresh meat in the office.

    So, a few martinis, long islands, and rum and cokes later...

    I just couldn't keep up these guys. :P

    I actually made it in to work the next day, although very late and halfway through a major meeting. Luckily, everyone who was at the meeting was also at the bar the night before. They got a good laugh at my expense. :|

    NOTE: Sometimes the only major repercussion is a good time with fellow coworkers! And I'm not advocating this behavior for alcoholics...

  • xjoaniex (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack

    And that is suprising how ??

    If there are 5 work days in a week, each day would probably average 20% of sick days. So any two given days should be 40%. Right?

  • AMerrickanGirl (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    Now think about that. Monday and Friday represent 2 out of 5 work days, which, according to my arithmetic calculations, represents 40% of those days.

  • Carl (unregistered)

    wtf, the title kinda killed the rest of the story :(

  • Zagyg (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    Now think about that. Monday and Friday represent 2 out of 5 work days, which, according to my arithmetic calculations, represents 40% of those days.

    Dammit, you beat me to it!!!

  • AT (unregistered) in reply to OneOfTwelvePercent
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    Do you have a citation for that 12% number? (forwarded emails don't count) It took me about two seconds to find a widely-cited 2008 survey showing that 1% of the US workforce thought they might call in sick and that another 3% thought they might come in late the day after the Super bowl. I'm guessing that 1% calling in sick is even lower than normal since that works out to a little over 2 sick days a year per employee.

  • Jay (unregistered) in reply to Jason
    Jason:
    Don't we sound a little bitter this morning.

    Well Dressed does not necessarily mean "bullshit artist" and Regular Looking does not necessarily mean "good at his job."

    Relax a bit. Get rid of your preconceived notion that good looking guys (and girls) don't know what they're doing. You'll be happier in life. I promise.

    Mostly irrelevant but potentially amusing comment: I think the one time in my life I ever figured out a woman: I was chatting with the woman I was dating at the time and I started to tell her about a magazine article I had read about astronomy that I thought was interesting. Then, knowing that I have a tendency to bore people with technical talk, I hesitated and said, "Well, I don't know if you're interested in astronomy." She took this to mean, "I don't know if you're smart enough to understand astronomy", and was insulted. She insisted that she wasn't stupid, why did I think she was stupid, etc. I tried to explain that I meant exactly what I said, that I didn't know if the subject would interest her. She refused to let go, going on and on about how I was belittling her intelligence and so on. Then I had an inspiration. I said, "Yes, you're right. It's just that there's this stereotype that all incredibly beautiful and sexy women must be dumb, and sometimes it's just hard to get past it." She accepted that explanation.

  • Matthew (unregistered) in reply to Christopher

    What I don't get is why people like Jon even apply for such jobs in the first place. Do they think that programming is just that easy? Are they desperate for a job, any job, and hope they can BS their way long enough to be useful? Is it paid training?

    I just couldn't put myself through that kind of embarrassment of being called out like that. It is unthinkable.

  • (cs)

    At least he was found out before he did any damage, but really, the only surprise is that anyone is surprised about this. Spend long enough in the industry and you'll meet plenty of "Jon"s.

  • anon (unregistered) in reply to Matthew

    I worked with someone that took 1 VB class ans applied for a programming job. Never even new databases existed and didn't have any idea of how little she knew. (she was embarressed about it). She changed possitions to a different job and evenually ended up as a pretty good QA person. She just had no idea how little she knew. Management should have, though

  • (cs) in reply to xjoaniex
    xjoaniex:
    And that is suprising how ??

    If there are 5 work days in a week, each day would probably average 20% of sick days. So any two given days should be 40%. Right?

    It's not surprising. He was quoting a Dilbert comic.

  • Some Alcoholic (unregistered) in reply to Some Psychologist
    Some Psychologist:
    Some may project their reasons on to others (for example, "people like you are the reason I drink", etc.); not realizing that other people are not the ones holding the bottle to their lips.

    People like you are the reason I drink.

  • Congo (unregistered) in reply to Marketing droids
    Marketing droids:
    Anon:
    Gedoon:
    Well at least they can't blame the secretary... I mean, that's the way secretaries are hired, right? All your job qualifications are to look good and dress smart, no actuall skills required.

    You seem to be a little biased, sir. There are lots of skills that a secretary needs, and most places do hire them based on that.

    Name one.

    How about two, grammar and organizational skills?

  • Anonononymous (unregistered) in reply to Some Psychologist
    Some Psychologist:
    There is a term for this, it's called "Functional Alcoholic". Someone who does this occasionally might be a "high-functioning alcoholic" while someone who does it constantly (and nearly or often gets fired) would be a "low-functioning alcoholic".

    Does this apply to all out-side work activities? If I go skiing, and the next day feel so sore and tired I call in sick, am I a "Functional Skiaholic"? What if I break my leg skiing?

    If I stay up all night watching movies, then oversleep and miss work, and am I a "Functional Moviholic"?

    Having a few too many drinks on occasion and getting a hangover does not make you an alcoholic. Throwing that label around too lightly does nothing to help real alcoholics.

  • Flim Doobie (unregistered) in reply to Some Psychologist
    Some Psychologist:
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    There is a term for this, it's called "Functional Alcoholic". Someone who does this occasionally might be a "high-functioning alcoholic" while someone who does it constantly (and nearly or often gets fired) would be a "low-functioning alcoholic".

    However, people are adverse to labels and will attempt to rationalize or justify their behavior. Some may project their reasons on to others (for example, "people like you are the reason I drink", etc.); not realizing that other people are not the ones holding the bottle to their lips.

    Alcoholism is a serious mental illness that has a genetic component. Anybody can get sober, but an alcoholic will always be an alcoholic; regardless their last drink was 1 hour ago or 100 years ago.

    Everybody needs to make their own choices and find their own way. Help anybody who asks you for it, but don't feel sorry for anybody. Enabling an alcoholic to function despite their illness only enables them to sink further into the illness without consequences. If they aren't asking you for help, then butt-out of their lives, and let the chips fall where they may.

    Hey step off! Like 12 whole steps, please. That AA diatribe is for losers - who can argue with it anyway? Oh, I suppose I am what you'd call "in denial". And perhaps, I am "projecting" about AA, and the 12 steps. BOLLOCKS!

    You've been brain washed by your "sponsor" - good luck in your little cult of sobriety.

  • Charles Babbage (unregistered)

    Unfortunately, in large organizations a person such as described can get away for quite a while using google and open source projects for development fodder while spending much effort in browning up to the management. They'll likely end up as managers, deciding your fate. And who has time to effectively campaign against the useless? It ends up seeming like sour grapes to your bosses. So, spend a lot of time in technical interviews, no matter how good they sound on paper, or who gives them glowing recommendations.

    Or maybe watch "American Psycho" for tips on dealing with co-workers.

  • (cs)

    On the alcoholism thing, I believe a recovering alcoholic I know expressed it well. "It's not for me or anyone else to say whether or not someone is an alcoholic. But if alcohol is causing you problems at work or at home, then you've got a problem with alcohol."

  • x (unregistered) in reply to Concerned
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    You need to join Alanon or something. You have serious case of codependency.

  • (cs) in reply to Concerned
    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    Sure they do. The sensible ones take the day off. The stupid ones come in with a hangover and fall asleep on the couch. At least that's what one of the former employees where I work did; we have a photo of him crashed out on said couch on the internal Wiki.

    I think the only reason I've never done it is because I don't drink.

  • Rance Mohanitz (unregistered) in reply to CRNewsom
    CRNewsom:
    Reminds me of when I got hired at Shaw Aero

    You worked at Shaw Aero? When were you working there?

  • Rance Mohanitz (unregistered) in reply to Rance Mohanitz
    Rance Mohanitz:
    CRNewsom:
    Reminds me of when I got hired at Shaw Aero

    You worked at Shaw Aero? When were you working there?

    Just kidding on that last comment. I don't know Shaw Aero. I know Shawn Cisnero, that's not what you meant is it?

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Zagyg
    Zagyg:
    AMerrickanGirl:
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    Now think about that. Monday and Friday represent 2 out of 5 work days, which, according to my arithmetic calculations, represents 40% of those days.

    Dammit, you beat me to it!!!

    I think that that was his point...a tongue-in-cheek poke at the obvious stats ;)

  • Schnapple (unregistered) in reply to Matthew
    Matthew:
    What I don't get is why people like Jon even apply for such jobs in the first place. Do they think that programming is just that easy? Are they desperate for a job, any job, and hope they can BS their way long enough to be useful? Is it paid training?

    You answered your own question - many people do in fact believe that programming is just that easy. And, not to defend them too much, but think of how many jobs out there really do consist of "Learn X (where X is something you are trained on - be it in a weekend or over four years in college), do X for a living". Sometimes the job will train as you go - how many people do you think learn how to flip burgers before they go to McDonald's? This is what leads to management thinking of developers as interchangeable identical cogs.

    But I don't think that people like Jon are necessarily evil, they're just very ill informed and unlike some jobs you're not qualified for, there's no consequences for this other than getting embarrassed. Many jobs require some certification or verifiable training beforehand, or might result in death if you're incompetent (see: bridge builders).

  • Schnapple (unregistered) in reply to WTF?
    WTF?:
    WTF? I was expecting some type of Penthouse Forum "encounter".
    [image] The clip art photo they picked certainly looks like it could be headed there...
  • Jon (unregistered) in reply to AMerrickanGirl
    AMerrickanGirl:
    WhiskeyJack:
    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    Now think about that. Monday and Friday represent 2 out of 5 work days, which, according to my arithmetic calculations, represents 40% of those days.
    Congratulations, you got the joke!

  • Pitabred (unregistered) in reply to Some Psychologist

    And then there are people like me, who maybe 2-3 times a year get really drunk so that I'll have a hangover, quite often have a beer with dinner, but if I forget to drink alcohol for a week, guess what? Nothing happens. A month? Same game, different time span.

    Drinking happens. A little alcohol is actually proven to be good for you. There are many, many people who can handle it responsibly. If you aren't one of those due to genetic or personal issues, I'm sorry. Get the help you need, keep off the sauce. But don't try to rain on everyone else's parade just because you can't handle it. Not everyone who drinks alcohol is an alcoholic, and if you can't figure that out, you better hand in your credentials, because an idiot has no place handing out psychiatric advice.

  • JOHN (unregistered) in reply to WhiskeyJack
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    THAT'S ALMOST 50%!!!

  • NotAnEnglishMajor (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Gedoon:
    Well at least they can't blame the secretary... I mean, that's the way secretaries are hired, right? All your job qualifications are to look good and dress smart, no actuall skills required.

    You seem to be a little biased, sir. There are lots of skills that a secretary needs, and most places do hire them based on that.

    Receptionist != Secretary. Job requirements, and pay scale for that matter, differ vastly.

  • schnitzi (unregistered) in reply to Concerned
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people outside of Australia have never missed work because of a hangover.

    Fixed your post.

  • Itsme (unregistered)

    Heh, nice one.

    My current boss is just like that. I work at a small company creating PHP-based websites. So, my boss decided we needed some extra hands. He got some interviews lined up, the first of which was a mathematics-teacher who had no experience at all. (Who actually admitted that he had never used PHP before.)

    My boss offered him about 4 times my wage to work with us. So, he worked for 2 weeks... (and when I say worked I mean read PHP books) and quit. Nice investment, eh?

  • (cs)

    Now, normally, I read through the thread first.

    Ahem.

    "Pseudocode?"

    Doom. Bad doom. Very evil doom. And very well deserved, too.

    Now back to your normal programming, which I promise I'll read through.

  • (cs) in reply to JOHN
    JOHN:
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    THAT'S ALMOST 50%!!!

    OK, I read through the posts.

    Perhaps America, in the eight years I have been absent, has suddenly awarded every single droid in the work-force a "sick day" every week.

    Or perhaps 50 divided by 1 is 1. (I simplify here, on the assumption that everybody gets two weeks vacation, and national holidays don't count.)

    Yes, that would make 20% per day of the week about right.

    Now, tell me again what languages you lot are programming in. I missed cretin.Net, and I'm not sure I want to use the PHP5 libraries that make this one add up.

  • ChiefCrazyTalk (unregistered) in reply to Concerned
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    If you think that, you have lived a very sheltered life, my friend.

  • Dave (unregistered) in reply to Concerned
    Concerned:
    Drinking alcohol is cool and all...

    .. but if you miss work because of it and cause your company problems, you should reevaluate your drinking.

    Believe it or not, that is not normal behavior. Most people have never missed work because of a hangover.

    That's pretty funny. I must remember to visit your world some day. I'll drink what i want, when i want, jobs are great for getting paid, but it's just a job, nothing more. I do all my best coding at home, not amongst those bullshitting clowns in suits at work.

  • Grassfire (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark
    real_aardvark:
    JOHN:
    WhiskeyJack:
    OneOfTwelvePercent:
    That's a good one, I guess you might've missed that 12% of the US workforce calls in sick the day after the Superbowl...

    40% of all sick days are taken on Mondays and Fridays.

    Hmmm...

    THAT'S ALMOST 50%!!!

    OK, I read through the posts.

    Perhaps America, in the eight years I have been absent, has suddenly awarded every single droid in the work-force a "sick day" every week.

    Or perhaps 50 divided by 1 is 1. (I simplify here, on the assumption that everybody gets two weeks vacation, and national holidays don't count.)

    Yes, that would make 20% per day of the week about right.

    Now, tell me again what languages you lot are programming in. I missed cretin.Net, and I'm not sure I want to use the PHP5 libraries that make this one add up.

    I suspect the point was missed, the 40% comment was unrelated to the original Superbowl comment.

    Taken on it's own, it was intended to mean "Taken over a whole year, 40% of all sick days are taken on Monday or Friday". Which of course is logical, considering 40% of all work days (approx) over the course of the year occur on Monday or Friday.

    Hope that clears it up

  • Josh (unregistered)

    I would've slept with the secretary to get the job too

  • (cs) in reply to clively
    clively:
    Christopher:
    TRWTF™ is that Jon got fired, instead of being promoted to upper management.
    Apparently Jon couldn't spin things well enough to the guy that hired him; otherwise he would have landed in upper management to begin with.
    because Jon only got to spin with the secretary. seriously any boss who listens and hires purely on the opinions of a secretary - who obviously did not possess the experience to asssess candidates - needs to contemplate why s/he is working in this industry.
  • (cs)

    Sounds perfectly acceptable. My last job insterview was with a microwave oven. It only lasted 5 minutes, but it sounded happy at the end. It even offered me some food.

  • Sathy (unregistered) in reply to real_aardvark

    Man, you realize there is world outside of USA? And that actually most of the world is outside of USA? Where I live I have guaranteed 26 days of paid time off. Guaranteed by the labor laws. So I can take a lot of fridays off if I want to and still have time for vacation. Don't judge the entire world by your little one.

  • ThomsonsPier (unregistered) in reply to Anonononymous
    Anonononymous:
    am I a "Functional Skiaholic"?

    That depends. Are you addicted to skiahol?

  • Keith (unregistered)

    Craig and Danny should be ashamed for getting a candidate in and then wasting his time by not bothering to meet him or formally cancel with an apology.

    What sort of half-assed environment is it where so many people are taking days of with hangovers?

    There's so many losers in this story it's hard to count them all.

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