The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Cant remember my damn login:
"Book 'em Daan O"
I estimate 92.376% of TDWTF readership will not get this reference.

Proud to be part of the 7.624%.

And don't forget, 73.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

chubertdev · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

This hits close to home. I have just inherited my running club's website, which has been accepting thousands of run starts for nearly a decade. The site is built in Perl and it stores the data in vertical pipe delimited CSV files. The format is barely valid, and there's some extraneous data that makes no sense. I'm surprised that this site even works. But it's not a huge WTF, it's just old technology that was done by an amateur. There are probably thousands of these sites out there that work the same way.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

no laughing matter:
Rookie normalisation:
It's funny, but a true WTF, no.
TRWTF: The salesman getting a bonus for landing the deal (simply by lying about features), while one of the programmer's of the company's primary product has to work extra hours for dealing with the shitty data quality of the new customer (and probably receiving complaints about errors in the import).

TRWTF? No. At my job we call that a "weekday."

DCRoss · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

xaade:
You're all muscular, but you like to wear dresses, which gender do you see yourself as.

"Scottish"?

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

DCRoss:
xaade:
You're all muscular, but you like to wear dresses, which gender do you see yourself as.
"Scottish"?

You win the Internet for today. I bow down to your greatness.

KattMan · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.

These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

themagni · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

QJo:
No big deal. Just an exercise to convert data from one format into another. A little tedious, a little fiddlesome, but just another day down in the engine room. You'd write a tool to do the actual migration, which will evolve during the course of the analysis of the problem. If you get entities that seem unmappable, either raise a ticket or talk to the customer. If you can't do this, you're probably in the wrong job.
The real WTF would be if you've been assigned a ridiculously short time to do it. And if that's the case, then you just take your time and warn the powers that be that it will be later than they expected. And if you're prone to panic at the shortness of deadlines and be tempted to rush it and cut corners, then again, you're probably in the wrong job.

You're right. They're overcomplicating it by trying to understand the data because it's relatable to your own experience. Treat each person as, say, a grenade, and just put it into a decent format WITHOUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHY. "Why" leads to madness. Then once the data's been put into the right system, offer to streamline or refine the data...

... at a small additional consulting charge.

Otherwise you're going OOS for no $$$ and that makes everyone sad.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

xaade:
I see why they put him/she in the database, what if you had a genetically mixed kid, they may be legally a boy, but prefer to be referred to as a girl.
What you need is two fields.

DNA gender (male, female, mixed male, mixed female) Gender Identity Crises (Yes, No)

Then, if GIC is set, you flip the pronouns from DNA gender to the "opposite".

Hmm hermaphrodite, rarer no genital, conjoined twins same gender, conjoined twins mixed gender....

Then we also need DNA_GENDER_NOT_FOUND

themagni · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.
These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

You forgot XO. You can't go wagging biology around a programming forum thinking you're the only one who studied outside the box. Nevertheless, since the vast majority of the population is either XY or XX, and the remaining few have discernible equipment that lets them pick a bathroom, male of female is pretty easy to answer in binary. (Although I wouldn't because there's no need to save the space. Use text unless it gets math done on it.)

Preferential Indentity has no business being in a database unless it's a members registry at a sex club.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Techpaul:
Hmm hermaphrodite, rarer no genital, conjoined twins same gender, conjoined twins mixed gender....
Then we also need DNA_GENDER_NOT_FOUND

You can't have conjoined twins of mixed gender. Conjoined twins are always identical twins, and identical twins have the exact same gender.

Nagesh · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

anonymous:
Techpaul:
Hmm hermaphrodite, rarer no genital, conjoined twins same gender, conjoined twins mixed gender....
Then we also need DNA_GENDER_NOT_FOUND
You can't have conjoined twins of mixed gender. Conjoined twins are always identical twins, and identical twins have the exact same gender.

Is that fact or just some quote made for this forum?

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

QJo:
The real WTF would be if you've been assigned a ridiculously short time to do it. And if that's the case, then you just take your time and warn the powers that be that it will be later than they expected. And if you're prone to panic at the shortness of deadlines and be tempted to rush it and cut corners, then again, you're probably in the wrong job.

What bugs me is that I'll say, "we may not make this deadline" because that's precisely my attitude. Then I get, "oh, no, that deadline is non-negotiable." Usually the client just made up a completely arbitrary deadline, and our managers accept it without any input from the engineers.

But it's only "non-negotiable" because they didn't even try and they want us to pull all the kinds of panicky shit you're talking about. The worst part is they're panicking at the very first meeting, especially when I say, "so since we've agreed to this, what's 'our' plan to make this happen?" And they still have the goddamned gall to try to dress up their panic with the tough-guy leader routine.

And the really irritating part is that no one, but NO ONE actually gives a flying fuck if you actually make these deadlines. Just make steady progress and write good code and they're happier than shit.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Meep:
What bugs me is that I'll say, "we may not make this deadline" because that's precisely my attitude. Then I get, "oh, no, that deadline is non-negotiable." Usually the client just made up a completely arbitrary deadline, and our managers accept it without any input from the engineers.
But it's only "non-negotiable" because they didn't even try and they want us to pull all the kinds of panicky shit you're talking about. The worst part is they're panicking at the very first meeting, especially when I say, "so since we've agreed to this, what's 'our' plan to make this happen?" And they still have the goddamned gall to try to dress up their panic with the tough-guy leader routine.

And the really irritating part is that no one, but NO ONE actually gives a flying fuck if you actually make these deadlines. Just make steady progress and write good code and they're happier than shit.

Someone's gotta make beans for them to count. How else are they gonna have jobs?

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.
These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

That's right! Like these simplistic idiots who try to classify a programming variable as being numeric OR string. What if I write:

    int x;
    x=7;
    x="hello";

So now is x an int or a string, huh? Everything doesn't necessarily fit into your narrow-minded little paradigm, does it?

Well, okay, I guess that would be a programming error.

Kind of like XXY is a chromosomal abnormality and not really another gender. Personally, I have a deformed kidney. That's not a new organ. It's just a kidney that is deformed.

I may "prefer" to call a dog a fish, but that doesn't make it a fish. It's still a mammal, no matter what I prefer to call it. Even if I glue a fin to its back, that won't make it a fish.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

My name indeed:
what horror would be required to keep the age field current
Yes, the "horror" of computed fields...

That was my initial reaction, but it really depends on how it is used.

From what we are actually told, there are a few silly tables, but not necessarily a very difficult problem.

KattMan · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

themagni:
KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.
These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

You forgot XO. You can't go wagging biology around a programming forum thinking you're the only one who studied outside the box. Nevertheless, since the vast majority of the population is either XY or XX, and the remaining few have discernible equipment that lets them pick a bathroom, male of female is pretty easy to answer in binary. (Although I wouldn't because there's no need to save the space. Use text unless it gets math done on it.)

Preferential Identity has no business being in a database unless it's a members registry at a sex club.

Yeah forgot about XO, and in most cases the additional genders are not readily apparent outside of a test so most of this is a non starter anyway. And no where did I state that the Preferential Identity should be saved, I actually implied it shouldn't be as there could be far to many options there.

Though it is good to see someone else that hasn't limited themselves just to the digital world.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Data coming from someone who finally realized that a couple of spreadsheets are no longer cutting it. Congratulations.

Either import it exactly as given or do the work and make a real database out of it.

Geez, you should see the things I have to put up with.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Sannois:
This is quite an ingenious way of dealing with transgender children. A girl might prefer to be referred to as him, it, they, or s/he. You can't hardcode these things, fellas!

I prefer zhe/zhim/zher.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_and_gender-neutral_pronouns#Invented_pronouns

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Hmm, this story doesn't seem all that far out.

Data delivered in Excel. Is that how they actually maintain it, or did somebody dump it to Excel? But assuming that this is the best we're going to get, that's not really that big a problem. Export it to CSV, then import the CSV into your database. I've done that many times.

Data has two primary keys. Well, no it doesn't. It has one primary key and one alternate key. This isn't ideal but it's no great obstacle. It's not at all uncommon for data to have multiple unique identifiers. This is routine when some of those identifiers come from external sources that you do not control. Like, we use our customer account number as the primary key. But the customer's social security number also uniquely identifies a customer. So? If foreign keys sometimes use one and sometimes the other, we should pick one and translate all the others during data conversion. An extra step but not a big deal.

Data is unnormalized. Namely, "boy/girl", "he/she", "him/her", etc repeated in every record. Presumably if we refer to a certain person as "he" we will not also refer to that same person as "her". A single field to identify gender would seem to be sufficient. I'd guess that the he/she, him/her etc is inserted into contract documents, letters, maybe other displays. Okay fine, we pick one of these fields to keep in the child table and we move all the other, dependent data into another table and normalize. Also we should change text like "boy" or "girl" into a consistent code so we don't have to deal with mistypes like "gril". The odds are that when there is dependent data like this, there are inconsistencies. Like there are probably some number of records that have "boy" and "she". So when we do the normalization we kick out an error report and have someone clean those up by hand. Or maybe we can just pick one of the fields as authoritative in cases of inconsistency.

Nursery1/2/3. Unnormalized data again, but surely that one's easy. We create a separate nursery table and populate the data correctly.

The only real problem I see is the long text field for the age. It always baffles me when people do this sort of thing as it's surely more work for a human to type "the child will be six years old next august" than to just type "5". And given that kind of text field, I'm sure we can expect all sorts of variety. Some ages will be in months and others in yeears. Some will be in digits and others spelled out. An age like 18 months may be written "18 months", "1 1/2 years", "a year and a half", "1.5 years", etc etc. Plus, how do we know on what date this was entered? If it says the child is 3 years old, was that yesterday, last year, five years ago, thirty years ago, ... ? Anyway, my first thought would be to try to pick out a number and look for "years" or "months" and ignore everything else, then print a big list with the original text and what we pulled from it, and have someone go over it manually. Then convert it to a birth date. I don't know what you could do that would be better. Well, given that with no time stamp on the data entry the information may be useless, maybe we just throw it out and make them enter birthdates, but I doubt we'd get away with demanding that.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

I'm in the "don't see the big deal" camp. Sure, data conversions can be a nightmare, but I don't see that in the samples provided.

Why worry about the "age" column? If it doesn't fit the data model of the target system, then just drop that column. Easy. And if the customer insists that all of the data has to be imported - well, hopefully the target system includes a notes/comment/memo column.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

xaade:
lucidfox:
srsWarrior:
Wow, how disgusting. These cis-normatives didn't even consider the possibility the kids may be gender queer.
I'd comment about this if the database was about adults, but in this case the skepticism is misplaced.
My only complaint is the confusion between sex and gender (it isn't even meaningful to talk about the gender of a 16-year-old who isn't even fully self-aware yet), plus the absence of an intersex option.

Because of 5% of the population, we can't figure out the difference between sex and gender?

It's in the freakin DNA for crying out loud.

Yes, it is. XY, XX, XXY, XXY, and several other possibilities.

It IS in the DNA, and there are more than two choices.

savar · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

The real wtf is the encoded HTML on this site's RSS fees.

Matt Westwood · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

I wouldn't blame the salesman too harshly. It is doubtful that he has taken the time to study the contents of the database. The fact that it's not as clean as it might have been is just one of those things. Suck it up, lazybones drama queen, and get on with it. And if you got fields that contain incomprehensible data like the age field, you flag it up and return to the customer for clarification, and explain that this might not be so easy to convert into a clean implementation.

chubertdev · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
I wouldn't blame the salesman too harshly. It is doubtful that he has taken the time to study the contents of the database. The fact that it's not as clean as it might have been is just one of those things. Suck it up, lazybones drama queen, and get on with it. And if you got fields that contain incomprehensible data like the age field, you flag it up and return to the customer for clarification, and explain that this might not be so easy to convert into a clean implementation.

You've never heard of the term "level of effort", have you?

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Ken in NH:
steenbergh:
Snoofle, you sexist. Why did you write 'boy' with a capital B and 'girl' all lower-case?

Right or wrong, it's just the way things are here at TDWTF.

I was a little annoyed (read: I almost cared) that we fed the original "Right or wrong" troll with all those replies. I forgot that, with this group especially, the troll was feeding us.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Ignoring any possibility of this "Daan" person having a proper name in some language, could an article writer please apply this same anonimization methodology to someone named "Bob"?

Thanks.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.

If you use "gender" to refer to "genetic sex" (of which there's XX, XY, XYY, etc.), there's a fourth axis, which is your anatomical sex. (And BTW, you're wrong about "sex is an act" when you say it exclusively, but whatever.) And no, this doesn't always correspond to your genetic sex, even in the absence of sex-reassignment surgery.

mihi · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Import the date into Google Refine, fix most of the mess in there, and then export it again. Assuming that "Not yet", "Not Made" and similar multiple values for the same thing are the norm rather than the exception. Otherwise just drop the redundant data and stick to the column that you think is most accurrate.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Pock Suppet:
anonymous:
TRWTF is that we can't simply beat salesman to the ground like they deserve...
Captcha: commoveo... I'm afraid nobody will get commoved. Relieved, in fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm having a hard time deciding whether the opposite of "programmer" is "marketer", "executive", or "lawyer", but I'd happily do with a few less of each of them.

Whoops, I just proved I'm an insensitive privileged bigot.

The opposite of "programmer" is "non-programmer".

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Bananas:
Cant remember my damn login:
"Book 'em Daan O"
I estimate 92.376% of TDWTF readership will not get this reference.
Proud to be part of the 7.624%.

And don't forget, 73.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.

And don't forget the 93.1415962% that were made up earlier and published by an ignorant newspaper reporter.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Friedrice The Great:
Bananas:
Cant remember my damn login:
"Book 'em Daan O"
I estimate 92.376% of TDWTF readership will not get this reference.
Proud to be part of the 7.624%.

And don't forget, 73.5% of statistics are made up on the spot.
And don't forget the 93.1415962% that were made up earlier and published by an ignorant newspaper reporter.

And 10 out of 7 are obviously incorrect.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
I wouldn't blame the salesman too harshly. It is doubtful that he has taken the time to study the contents of the database. The fact that it's not as clean as it might have been is just one of those things. Suck it up, lazybones drama queen, and get on with it. And if you got fields that contain incomprehensible data like the age field, you flag it up and return to the customer for clarification, and explain that this might not be so easy to convert into a clean implementation.

I would. It's the salesman's job to get input from engineering on how long the migration would take. That includes looking at the data. Not just making up some date you think will make the customer happy with no clue of how difficult the work is.

Nagesh · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

eViLegion:
Nagesh, you, your company, and your algorithm are all made out of mashed up arseholes.

Don't be hater. Hate is like acid.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.
These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

Wrong. Use a dictionary next time.

Sex is chromosomes, male/female. Gender is how you see yourself. Male, female, neuter, other... Preferential identity is a synonym for gender.

Notice that we never use gender for animals; we use sex. Because they can't tell us what they'd like to be known as, we can only determine what they are genetically.

Of course, if you're not in the USA, your nation's variant of English may differ...

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Friedrice The Great:
Pock Suppet:
anonymous:
TRWTF is that we can't simply beat salesman to the ground like they deserve...
Captcha: commoveo... I'm afraid nobody will get commoved. Relieved, in fact.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'm having a hard time deciding whether the opposite of "programmer" is "marketer", "executive", or "lawyer", but I'd happily do with a few less of each of them.

Whoops, I just proved I'm an insensitive privileged bigot.
The opposite of "programmer" is "non-programmer".

Shouldn't it be de-programmer? un-programmer? Someone who, instead of creating functional software, destroys it?

...so I guess the opposite of 'programmer' is 'user'...

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Friedrice The Great:
The opposite of "programmer" is "non-programmer".

Where does brogrammer fit in?

chubertdev · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

bambam:
Friedrice The Great:
The opposite of "programmer" is "non-programmer".
Where does brogrammer fit in?

Next to "sisgrammer" in the table.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

bambam:
Friedrice The Great:
The opposite of "programmer" is "non-programmer".
Where does brogrammer fit in?

Somewhere close to "Software Evangelist."

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.

This is wrong.

While sex may be an act, it is also a state.

sex (n) 1: either the male or female division of a species, especially as differentiated with reference to the reproductive functions.

Gender is a social construct. A gender represents the sum total of a society's expectations for a particular sex.

Gender roles differ according to cultural-historical context, and while most cultures express two genders, some express more. Androgyny, for example, has been proposed as a third gender.[2] Others societies have been claimed to have more than five genders,[3] and some non-Western societies have three genders – man, woman and third gender.[4] Gender expression refers to the external manifestation of one's gender identity, through "masculine," "feminine," or gender-variant or gender neutral behavior, clothing, hairstyles, or body characteristics.[5]

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
Aren't scenarios like this exactly why products like SSIS and the like (ETL tools) exist?

No things like this are exactly why DBA's and BI Architects exist.

Matt Westwood · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
Matt Westwood:
I wouldn't blame the salesman too harshly. It is doubtful that he has taken the time to study the contents of the database. The fact that it's not as clean as it might have been is just one of those things. Suck it up, lazybones drama queen, and get on with it. And if you got fields that contain incomprehensible data like the age field, you flag it up and return to the customer for clarification, and explain that this might not be so easy to convert into a clean implementation.

You've never heard of the term "level of effort", have you?

Management bullshit. Say what you mean, if you actually understand what you mean and aren't just jacking off on buzzwords.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Please show some sensitivity. I once logged in with the username "Bob" and let me assure you, it's no laughing matter.

Matt Westwood · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

urza9814:
KattMan:
Sex is an act. Gender is a state. Preferential Identity is a choice.
These are three different things.
If I have to explain sex to you, to bad, I won't. Gender is not just "Male" or "Female" even though that is how we see it. Gender is determined by chromosomes, normally XX and XY, there is no YY as you have to have an X from the mother. There are three other chromosomal genders, XXY, XYY, XXX. The details of those I will leave out here, but let it be said that in the human animal, there are five different genders. As for Preferential Identity, there can be far more options I am sure.

Wrong. Use a dictionary next time.

Sex is chromosomes, male/female. Gender is how you see yourself. Male, female, neuter, other... Preferential identity is a synonym for gender.

Notice that we never use gender for animals; we use sex. Because they can't tell us what they'd like to be known as, we can only determine what they are genetically.

Of course, if you're not in the USA, your nation's variant of English may differ...

"Captain Vimes says we don't have sex when on duty." -- Lance Corporal Angua

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

[quote user="QJo"The real WTF would be if you've been assigned a ridiculously short time to do it.[/quote]

You don't run out of time. Time is infinite. You are finite, Zathras is finite, This... is wrong database.

chubertdev · 2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Matt Westwood:
chubertdev:
Matt Westwood:
I wouldn't blame the salesman too harshly. It is doubtful that he has taken the time to study the contents of the database. The fact that it's not as clean as it might have been is just one of those things. Suck it up, lazybones drama queen, and get on with it. And if you got fields that contain incomprehensible data like the age field, you flag it up and return to the customer for clarification, and explain that this might not be so easy to convert into a clean implementation.

You've never heard of the term "level of effort", have you?

Management bullshit. Say what you mean, if you actually understand what you mean and aren't just jacking off on buzzwords.

That's what a salesperson needs to find out in lieu of understanding that it's five billion records in a non-standard comma-delimited formatted, so no, you can't f$%&in' have it by next Wednesday.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

Regarding the gender, himher, heshe, ... columns, in the 1910 US Census, one of my grandfather's sisters, Cora, was listed as "Daughter" in the relation to the head of household column and as a male in the sex column.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

"Send Daan to sing contract with my company"

I just visualized a great bollywood style musical number about a man singing a contract with a company.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

That last motherlode piece appears to me like an attempt to start a localization feature, to make it easy to adopt to foreign languages and their wording.

And I myself was a victim of such shameless salesman lying to the customers, in our case nobody else than federal government, so we better delivered: I hate them, I hate them, I hate them.

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

And the problem?

(this is site worth visiting any more???)

2013-07-29 Reply Admin

DrPepper:
Got to love a solution like that. Salesman X gets Y for a commission; but has to pay the engineer for any overtime he takes to get the work done from the commission. Overpromise and Y soon becomes 0.

Problem is, if they don't over-promise, someone else wins the contract, and neither the salesman nor the engineers get paid. Nope, like it or not, lying salesmen are a fact of life... you just have to work around them... and try to sneak in some payback where you can (e.g social club paintball tournaments).

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