• iWantToKeepAnon (unregistered)
    For the next few weeks, his mobile rang at all hours with calls from an unrecognized number in the Iowa area

    TRWTF is giving out your personal number.

  • PPACA (unregistered) in reply to Charles F.
    Charles F.:
    Obama cares!:
    Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
    Of course, we wouldn't want a socialist healthcare system.

    Actually the United States has four health care systems:

    1. Socialist = The VA; the government owns the hospitals, hires the doctors, and pays the bills. Veterans are the customers.

    2. Single Payer = Medicare; the hospitals are privately owned and hire the doctors they choose, the government pays the bill. The elderly are the customers.

    3. Private Insurance; the hospitals and privately owned and hire the doctors they choose, the insurance companies pay the bills (if your policy covers it). Everybody in America who can afford it are the customers.

    4. No Access; Don't get sick. If you do, die quickly. The millions of Americans who can't afford health insurance are the "customers" of this plan.

  • (cs) in reply to SeekerOfThings
    SeekerOfThings:
    *snip* I took my crew drinking for the day, then had to call my buddy and tell him the news. I don't know what caused the bridge to burn, but his job was gone, and they weren't going to let him take back his two weeks.

    There are very very few places that would allow you a "take back" after you've turned in your notice. I know I wouldn't. If the situation has reached the point that the employee has decided to leave, then it stands to reason that any "take backs" about their notice is simply temporary.

    On the other side, if you turn in your notice and the company convinces you to stay, that is temporary as well. As soon as they've gotten everything they need from you, you'll be fired.

    Quitting a job isn't something to be taken lightly. Kind of like breaking up with a girlfriend. If you've decided to move on then don't look back; that way lies madness.

  • Dan F (unregistered)

    I've heard stories of offers being rescinded after they were signed and accepted, especially in my industry. (It actually happened to someone I know) For that reason, with my last job offer, I did the following in order to fully cover my @ss:

    • Accepted the offer (which required I start within a week)
    • Immediately booked vacation from my old job (using up all the vacation days I had accumulated)
    • Started new job and confirmed that it was as they promised, and there were no management terrors or other hidden horrors
    • At the end of my vacation from old job, popped into the office briefly one morning to drop off my resignation letter, effective immediately.

    I know it was a jerk move, but companies only interested in the bottom line do not hesitate to to treat people this way. I don't really see workers as having any other choice.

    Note: This is an 'at-will' state. Employers can let employees go with no notice at any time for any reason. I take the flip-side to be equally true. I feel no obligation to an employer whatsoever, since they have the power to destroy an employee's life at any time.

  • (cs) in reply to Hannes
    Hannes:
    I really don't get this: "one of the VPs was spooked by an auditor in the parking lot yesterday and they've dropped an emergency budget freeze."

    A budget freeze because of a "spooked" VP? No, there has to be some other meaning to this sentence which escapes me right now. :(

    Yes. It means, "TRWTF".

  • (cs) in reply to Hannes
    Hannes:
    Schmitter:
    And he isn't a mechanic so he can't fix the train wreck Obamacare is.

    "This is why we can’t have nice things!" said Gertrude after realizing that Obamacare wouldn't help the presidents sick daughter.

    +1.

    Like a ninja in the night, Barack O., AKA Barazzo, stalks across Washington University’s Seattle White House. The go-to man in the state department, he messes-up the healthcare that others never have left behind.

  • faoileag (unregistered) in reply to no laughing matter
    no laughing matter:
    The go-to man in the state department, he messes-up the healthcare that others never have left behind.
    Question is: did he really? From what I've read most of the bad press stems from the fact that the rollout of Obamacare has been a desaster. You couldn't register at the website etc. Stuff like that.

    So I would rather assume that the real WTF with Obamacare is the contractor who set it up. Is it known what company that is?

    But then: a lot of "big" projects in the government sector fail, usually also "big". From IT for healthcare (NHS, if I recall correctly) to drones for the military (Germany) government procurement seems to turn into some sort of black hole for tax payers money more often than not.

  • Not Hans (unregistered)

    I got let go from a job, and they had me stay an extra two weeks to finish up the projects I was working on. That was a real WTF in my opinion. I still had full database access, code repository access and everything.

  • Steve Irwin (unregistered)

    Croikey! Here we see a bank VP in his natural environment: A bank office parking lot. But what's that lurking behind the Pontiac? It's a ferocious accounts auditor, and he looks like he has some bad news to deliver to the unsuspecting VP!

  • anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Dan F
    Dan F:
    I've heard stories of offers being rescinded after they were signed and accepted, especially in my industry. (It actually happened to someone I know) For that reason, with my last job offer, I did the following in order to fully cover my @ss:
    • Accepted the offer (which required I start within a week)
    • Immediately booked vacation from my old job (using up all the vacation days I had accumulated)
    ...and that wasn't enough to tip them off that you weren't coming back? Was your boss brain dead or just retarded?
  • Oscar Carserud (unregistered) in reply to Charles F.

    I am from sweden, and I pitty you ignorant nort americans for not having a working civiliced health care system. You could be sad and ashamed for your human incompetence. We have a helthcare system for al citicens, that is affordable and so mutch cheaper than yours. Be anihiliated. Kisses.

  • (cs) in reply to A nony mouse...
    A nony mouse...:
    Most of the time, if the company wants the person to leave immediately, they will simply pay out the notification period and escort the person out of the building. Eliminates the risk of complications.
    In Britain, this is usually called "gardening leave".
  • (cs) in reply to Algorythmics
    Algorythmics:
    Shoreline:
    I shouldn't be negotiating down my notice period, right?

    ... the company wants you in 2 months, 3 months, whatever your notice period. But would love to have you earlier. Anything else is an unnecessary risk and you do right to refuse.

    That makes sense. They've given me an offer (presumably with their signature) and I've accepted (presumably with their confirmation of my acceptance). They've said "you can start sooner if possible" and I begin to attempt negotiating down my notice period. Once negotiations are complete (and I have them in some kind of writing, such as an email, though probably not requiring a signature in this case) I can go back to the new company with my findings (if I have any) and hand in my notice (assuming it's not along the lines of "your new notice period of one month kicks in in one month").

    It's probably simpler than I'm making it sound.

  • (cs) in reply to Oscar Carserud
    Oscar Carserud:
    You could be sad and ashamed for your human incompetence.

    Dear Troll,

    It's not their fault that their votes count for nothing.

    Love, Shoreline

  • FreeMarketFan (unregistered)

    The real WTF is resigning from your old job before knowing what the benefits and pay are at the new job.

    CAPTCHA: persto - The persto sauce at the restaurant gave me gas

  • Tyler (unregistered)

    All these comments on Bob being at fault, gotta stick up another clay pigeon to shoot: The recruiter.

    Recruiter:
    we told him he would probably get an offer by Friday
    Recruiter:
    "Well, you guys always came back with the offer, so we figured-"
    Any chance at all the recruiter called Bob up to say, "You're as good as hired, the formal offer should arrive by Friday"?
  • (cs) in reply to Dan F
    Dan F:
    no notice

    With no notice period comes no responsibility.

  • Charles F. (unregistered)
    Bob's an excitable fellow, Paul. When we told him he would probably get an offer by Friday, he said he had to go draft his resignation letter, and hung up. Why aren't you guys giving him the job?
    Well, aside from the hiring freeze, a good reason not to give him the job is that he obviously doesn't think things through or consider failure cases.

    Figuring out what could go wrong and how to recover from failures is a pretty critical capability for a sysadmin.

    CAPTCHA: tation n. A broken PS/4 -- it's a Playstation without the Plays.

  • (cs) in reply to Tyler
    Tyler:
    All these comments on Bob being at fault, gotta stick up another clay pigeon to shoot: The recruiter.
    Recruiter:
    we told him he would probably get an offer by Friday
    Recruiter:
    "Well, you guys always came back with the offer, so we figured-"
    Any chance at all the recruiter called Bob up to say, "You're as good as hired, the formal offer should arrive by Friday"?

    Bob should still have waited until he got his new offer in writing.

    I agree that HS (the recruiters - Human Solutioneering or something) were definitely into some dodgy sh!t.

  • M-x org-mode (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    Charles F.:
    Of course, we wouldn't want a socialist healthcare system. Have you seen the Mad Max movies? That's what happened to Australia after they instituted a national healthcare coverage system. Germany's health care system has left it looking like it did after WWII. And Sweden? A nightmarish hell on earth.
    You've forgotten the United Kingdom and its NHS. Would you want to live in a country where, once you register at a medical practice, you can go there to get treatment without first having to hand over your credit card?

    Ah, firstworldproblems...

    There's also the Italian SSN, that of course is run 'italian style' if you know what I mean. You can sometime go in private hospitals to make exams and have part of the expenses paid by SSN. If you have an incurable illness you get also totally free exams and medications fot that illness.

  • (cs)

    Another "we-had-something-similar" story.

    IT reorg back in 2009. One of my co-workers wanted to move on and got a job offer in Alaska. Similar work, the same or better pay . . . She put in her two week notice. Trained me on her projects and responsibilities.

    The day before her last day, she got a copy of her offer. As I recall, the pay was only about half what she understood she'd been offered. Much gnashing of teeth, arguing, new company wouldn't budge on the salary. She very sheepishly had to come back and ask for her job back. She never really reintegrated after that and a couple of months later took a position with the City.

  • donger (unregistered) in reply to Don

    @Don - In some places a verbal offer can be taken as a contractual obligation. I would have mentioned that but in the end he's fucked I guess.

  • (cs) in reply to Valued Service
    Valued Service:
    Bob discovers he gets unemployment pay for 3 years. Gets a free cell phone. Obamacare gives him a big "discount", so Paul's paying for Bob's food, house, sick-care, and family for the next 3 years.
    But that's not all! All Bob has to do is help Bill Gates test his new email tracking software and he will receive $5,000 every time he forwards a message to everyone he knows. That will go well with his free limited edition Steve Jobs memorial iPad, the $1,000 Walmart gift cards he can get just for filling in surveys and the hefty cash-back that he receives every time he buys a single grape with food stamps.
  • Joe Brummell (unregistered) in reply to Shoreline

    Oh, yes, you should - the very moment they advance to you the money you potentially loose in the 6 weeks difference that you are thus bargaining for.

    CAPTCHA: appelatio: [ ... with an apple?]

  • Charles F. (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    You've forgotten the United Kingdom and its NHS.
    Not at all. "28 Days Later" is a documentary about what happens to people treated by the NHS.

    Last time I was in London, I was treated for an ear infection. I had to pay the full cost, but the doctor's service and medication were less than the cost of medication would have been in the US. And by "cost of medication" I mean including my insurance discount.

    I don't understand why the streets of London aren't piled waist-deep in plague victims, I tell you.

    CAPTCHA: nobis There's nobis like showbis.

  • (cs) in reply to Tyler
    Tyler:
    All these comments on Bob being at fault, gotta stick up another clay pigeon to shoot: The recruiter.
    Recruiter:
    we told him he would probably get an offer by Friday
    Recruiter:
    "Well, you guys always came back with the offer, so we figured-"
    Any chance at all the recruiter called Bob up to say, "You're as good as hired, the formal offer should arrive by Friday"?
    Wait... Bob _trusted a headhunter_ so it's not his fault?

    With such low standards for trustworthiness it's a wonder he hadn't retired already to enjoy the Nigerian millions he will be receiving just as soon as he can pay a few small bribes and fees.

  • gnasher729 (unregistered) in reply to clively
    clively:
    There are very very few places that would allow you a "take back" after you've turned in your notice. I know I wouldn't. If the situation has reached the point that the employee has decided to leave, then it stands to reason that any "take backs" about their notice is simply temporary.
    My company had several people return a few years later. But the record holder was one guy who left on Friday, and called Monday at 10am asking if he could come back. Huge difference between what the new company promised and what they delivered, which he found out between 9am and 10am that morning. They took him back, and he stayed for many years.
  • C-Derb (unregistered) in reply to Chad
    Chad:
    I think the real WTF here is the comments. Why are so many people confused by the events in the story? It's very clear what happened.

    This is why IT is hard, and software runs over time and budget. Some people can't read a story, and then pull out the important facts.

    +∞ Fabulous insight!

  • gnasher729 (unregistered) in reply to Dan F
    Dan F:
    I've heard stories of offers being rescinded after they were signed and accepted, especially in my industry. (It actually happened to someone I know)
    I heard a story of someone arriving to start his new job, and between job offer and starting game the department hiring him had been closed done, all jobs gone. All the people gone. So he walked around, talked to people, asked what they needed doing, and just stayed. Left six years later.

    Not sure if they had to keep him, but he had his contract, and nobody thought of cancelling it.

  • epsalon (unregistered)

    TRWTF is at-will employment. This could have still happened with a signed contract. Bob could be fired at any time and for any reason (with a few exceptions). Lack of budget is certainly a legal reason, and this could have happened just the same even if Bob had a signed contract.

  • Sam I am (unregistered) in reply to Don
    Don:
    Friend of mine recently made the same mistake as Bob (more or less). He was interviewed for a similar job to his current one, was promised pretty decent bump in salary, resigned his current job. Now I should point out that he had already received a written offer from the new company outlining his job, hours, start date, etc BUT importantly no salary details. I guess in his mind, "we already discussed it, so we're good".

    So his first day was last Monday, popped into HR for briefing... "by the way, here's your salary details". Hmm. I can only imagine his face: it was about a quarter of what he was promised, and significantly less than what he was currently earning. To top it out, his old job was already filled at the prior employer (and he'd trained his replacement), never mind getting another job in his line of work could take quite a while (not a lot of openings in his field).

    Can't stress it enough. Get it in writing, not just the job specifics, but everything you are under the impression you're getting. Don't assume it's legit, don't assume you're safe because it was said and you think verbal is as good as written.

    That's actually really sketchy. Your friend might actually be able to sue for this.

    The only problem with not having the salary in writing is that he doesn't have evidence in case the employer lies and says that they never actually offered him the bump in salary.

  • matt (unregistered) in reply to David

    That happened to me at my first real job - handed in a very nice resignation letter to the office manager (wife of the owner), offering three weeks notice... and returned to my desk. A few minutes later:

    root@cerebus# Killed matt@cerebus$ su You are not allowed to su root. ( aloud, to office-mate, "I guess they read my letter."

  • (cs) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    Charles F.:
    Of course, we wouldn't want a socialist healthcare system. Have you seen the Mad Max movies? That's what happened to Australia after they instituted a national healthcare coverage system. Germany's health care system has left it looking like it did after WWII. And Sweden? A nightmarish hell on earth.
    You've forgotten the United Kingdom and its NHS. Would you want to live in a country where, once you register at a medical practice, you can go there to get treatment without first having to hand over your credit card?

    Ah, firstworldproblems...

    Or up here in the Great White North, where the total cost for my wife's/son's emergency C-Section two years ago was $15 for three days of parking.

  • (cs) in reply to Ash
    Ash:
    Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket. Then hitting them with a brick. I believe the professional term for Bob is "pillock".

    Apparently this sort of stupidity is common. I remember a fellow who left my company years ago, walked into his "new" place, only to have some manager explain that (a) he had no written offer, and (b) the guy who made him a verbal offer had no authority to do so. And no, we did not hire him back.

  • (cs)

    BTW, I don't suppose this was "Bob, From AccounTemps" was it? He's supposed to be fantastic!

  • (cs) in reply to clively
    clively:
    Kind of like breaking up with a girlfriend. If you've decided to move on then don't look back; that way lies madness.

    For you, maybe. I'm one of several couples I know who broke up 1 or more times, followed by a solid marriage (35 so far in my case).

  • (cs) in reply to Charles F.
    Charles F.:
    Obama cares!:
    Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
    Without income, you get subsidies or Medicaid.

    In no other industrialized country does losing your job mean that you might die of a treatable disease.

    No, instead people regardless of employment die waiting for treatment... at least in Canada and the UK.

  • (cs) in reply to PPACA
    PPACA:
    Charles F.:
    Obama cares!:
    Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
    Of course, we wouldn't want a socialist healthcare system.

    Actually the United States has four health care systems:

    1. Socialist = The VA; the government owns the hospitals, hires the doctors, and pays the bills. Veterans are the customers.

    2. Single Payer = Medicare; the hospitals are privately owned and hire the doctors they choose, the government pays the bill. The elderly are the customers.

    3. Private Insurance; the hospitals and privately owned and hire the doctors they choose, the insurance companies pay the bills (if your policy covers it). Everybody in America who can afford it are the customers.

    4. No Access; Don't get sick. If you do, die quickly. The millions of Americans who can't afford health insurance are the "customers" of this plan.

    You really shouldn't get your talking points from little-prick Congressmen from Florida. And since when is single-payer NOT socialist? 1 and 2 are both socialist; it's just a matter of degrees.

    You forgot about the millions on Medicaid. They're the ones who are poor families and/or disabled.

  • Conspirator (unregistered)

    I'm surprised so many people here are unaware that some companies, especially in IT, have a policy that when given notice the employee is to be let go immediately. It's not that unusual. I've had this occur twice, and both times they paid me out for my two weeks. It was sweet.

    If they kick you out the door without paying you they may be effectively firing you (depending on the state's employment laws) and can be on the hook for unemployment then. So to be safe they pay you off.

    There's a lot of reasons a company might choose to do this, and it shouldn't always be interpreted as there having been a problem with the employee.

  • (cs) in reply to Oscar Carserud
    Oscar Carserud:
    I am from sweden, and I pitty you ignorant nort americans for not having a working civiliced health care system. You could be sad and ashamed for your human incompetence. We have a helthcare system for al citicens, that is affordable and so mutch cheaper than yours. Be anihiliated. Kisses.
    BORK BORK BORK
  • Calli Arcale (unregistered)

    Oh my lord. I know somebody who would totally do an idiotic thing like that. There are people who get themselves so invested in an idea that they get a few steps ahead of themselves and start celebrating before it's even agreed upon. It's a sort of magical thinking, and it's very dangerous, as you might expect.

  • Charles F. (unregistered) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    No, instead people regardless of employment die waiting for treatment... at least in Canada and the UK.
    This statement conveniently ignores two this:

    1. People in the US die waiting for treatment, too, so that's not evidence that the UK or Canadian systems are worse.

    2. An estimated 44,000 people die in the US every year due to lack of health care coverage. That number in the UK and Canada is 0. That's objectively way better.

  • Josh (unregistered) in reply to Charles F.
    Charles F.:
    ... 2. An estimated 44,000 people die in the US every year due to lack of health care coverage. That number in the UK and Canada is 0. That's objectively way better.

    Oh, so everyone in the UK and Canada is covered, but many still die waiting for care. Gotcha.

  • Paul Neumann (unregistered) in reply to Charles F.
    Charles F.:
    Obama cares!:
    Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
    Without income, you get subsidies or Medicaid.¹

    In no other industrialized country does losing your job mean that you might die of a treatable disease.² The ACA has made this better, but hasn't really fixed it.³ <snip removed="fud"/>

    1) True before ACA (ObamaCare). 2) Not true: See 1. 3) Have you actually paid anymore attention to the ACA beyond the prophesies? Since the ACA has gone into effect: • People who had private insurance before have lost it entirely; • People obtaining private insurance through both federal and state "marketplaces" have been receiving quotes substantially higher -- even after the offered tax credits; • Even after selecting and subscribing to a "marketplace" health plan, people have been receiving notices indicating the original quoted tax credits have been substantially reduced rendering the shiny new plan no longer affordable.

    Meanwhile, back on topic... Is it really common practice to begin seeking fulfillment for a position without adjusting the budget in anticipation of the expense? If the budget had been augmented to include the anticipated costs of a new hire prior to interviewing, then a budget freeze should not have affected the process which had already begun.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to faoileag
    faoileag:
    no laughing matter:
    The go-to man in the state department, he messes-up the healthcare that others never have left behind.
    Question is: did he really? From what I've read most of the bad press stems from the fact that the rollout of Obamacare has been a desaster. You couldn't register at the website etc. Stuff like that.

    So I would rather assume that the real WTF with Obamacare is the contractor who set it up. Is it known what company that is?

    But then: a lot of "big" projects in the government sector fail, usually also "big". From IT for healthcare (NHS, if I recall correctly) to drones for the military (Germany) government procurement seems to turn into some sort of black hole for tax payers money more often than not.

    It worked fine last night.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Paul Neumann
    Paul Neumann:
    • People who had private insurance before have lost it entirely;

    Looks like you missed out the rather important qualifier of "a few..." as in "a few people..."

    But hey, don't let that stop your pointless off-topic trolling.

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    Charles F.:
    Obama cares!:
    Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
    Without income, you get subsidies or Medicaid.

    In no other industrialized country does losing your job mean that you might die of a treatable disease.

    No, instead people regardless of employment die waiting for treatment... at least in Canada and the UK.

    Ahh...so people who are employed have some greater inherent right not to die. Got it.

  • Geoff (unregistered) in reply to Oscar Carserud
    Oscar Carserud:
    I am from sweden, and I pitty you ignorant nort americans for not having a working civiliced health care system. You could be sad and ashamed for your human incompetence. We have a helthcare system for al citicens, that is affordable and so mutch cheaper than yours. Be anihiliated. Kisses.

    annihilated? Harsh....

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Shoreline
    Shoreline:
    As for HR "what should we tell him", as mentioned, that's their job, but at a guess they were just looking for Paul's opinion on the matter, and Bob was probably right there and able to hear half the conversation.

    No. If you are in HR and you get a call from somebody asking when they start, you look at your records and you don't have anything, wouldn't you at least call the claimed hiring manager to double check that the paper work didn't get lost (or Paul forgot to turn it in). Not at least calling Paul for a double check would be not doing their job.

  • Josh (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Ahh...so people who are employed have some greater inherent right not to die. Got it.

    I know I'll get flamed for this, but where do you draw the line? I'm genuinely curious:

    health care food shelter education television internet x-box nike-brand sneakers lobster sports cars sports teams

    This is an honest question. What shouldn't you be entitled to if you're unwilling to earn it for yourself or your family?

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