The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Anon:
Paul Neumann:
• People who had private insurance before have lost it entirely;
Looks like you missed out the rather important qualifier of "a few..." as in "a few people..."
But hey, don't let that stop your pointless off-topic trolling.

God, you're quick. Response to troll is trolling. Therefore Response to response to trolling must be trolling as well. To continue this troll:

"a few people...": There are approximately 15 million individual insurance policies in the US, approximately 5% of the total population. Of those 15 million policies it is estimated that 3.5 million policies have been sent cancellation notices, approximately 23% of the individually insured population. source

If 23% affected are "a few people" in your opinion, I will concede the point much as I would in conversation with a 3 year old.

These changes have not reached the group policies (employer provided) yet. We can only imagine what will happen then.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Charles F.:
faoileag:
You've forgotten the United Kingdom and its NHS.
Not at all. "28 Days Later" is a documentary about what happens to people treated by the NHS.

Thank goodness that in this day and age if you don't get it straight away, you can google it :-)

So far my experiences with the NHS have been very positive, sometimes to a degree that I prefered the british way of doing things to the german way.

Charles F.:
I don't understand why the streets of London aren't piled waist-deep in plague victims.

Well, there currently is a debate going on that this is exactly what is happening: that a lot of people practice "health care tourism" and come to the UK for the sole purpose of getting treated for free.

The debate has been started by the political right, if I recall correctly, but two interesting points transpired from the newspaper articles.

One was that in the case of EU citizens the NHS didn't even recapture the money for treatment when it could do so from their respective insurance companies. Turned out the NHS does not even have the infrastructure for these claims, but still.

The other was that the cost of treatment for uninsured foreigners was smaller than the cost of treatment as a result of alcohol abuse and general saturday night madness, and that, if society wanted to reduce the overall cost of health care, society should rather start at home and try to do something against destructive behaviour.

And finally...

Charles F.:
I don't understand why the streets of London aren't piled waist-deep in plague victims.

Because they can't afford to stay in London for the duration of treatment. They will probably pefer to haunt the streets of Liverpool, Glasgow or Sheffield.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Josh:
Anon:
Ahh...so people who are employed have some greater inherent right not to die. Got it.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but where do you draw the line? I'm genuinely curious:

health care food shelter education television internet x-box nike-brand sneakers lobster sports cars sports teams

This is an honest question. What shouldn't you be entitled to if you're unwilling to earn it for yourself or your family?

Well, in my opinion the items from your list that should not be covered by welfare are: x-box nike-brand sneakers (ditto for Prada) sports cars sports teams

Come on, you can't possibly suggest that if I loose my job the welfare agency forks out the money so that I can buy the Dallas Mavericks?

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

I knew one guy who accepted early retirement from his job as a contractor to a certain government agency.

One of the terms of the agreement was that he could not work in competition with his former employer. If he did, his early retirement benefits were permanently gone. He was also barred by the terms of the agreement from filing any legal actions against the employer.

He lined up with another contractor for the same agency that was not in competition with his employer so there was no problem.

Since he had not had a vacation in a while, he arranged his start date to be about four weeks after he left the first contractor.

About halfway through the vacation, he received a call from his former employer telling him that he could not go to work for the new employer because they thought that they might bid for that same contract at some point in the future.

That was the end of his new job.

ObiWayneKenobi · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

eric76:
I knew one guy who accepted early retirement from his job as a contractor to a certain government agency.
One of the terms of the agreement was that he could not work in competition with his former employer. If he did, his early retirement benefits were permanently gone. He was also barred by the terms of the agreement from filing any legal actions against the employer.

He lined up with another contractor for the same agency that was not in competition with his employer so there was no problem.

Since he had not had a vacation in a while, he arranged his start date to be about four weeks after he left the first contractor.

About halfway through the vacation, he received a call from his former employer telling him that he could not go to work for the new employer because they thought that they might bid for that same contract at some point in the future.

That was the end of his new job.

The Real WTF is that clauses like that are allowed.

Nagesh · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Any one knows a bird in hand is worth 2 on the branch. Don't commit, till everything is baked.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Josh:
Anon:
Ahh...so people who are employed have some greater inherent right not to die. Got it.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but where do you draw the line? I'm genuinely curious:

health care food shelter education television internet x-box nike-brand sneakers lobster sports cars sports teams

This is an honest question. What shouldn't you be entitled to if you're unwilling to earn it for yourself or your family?

Gee...I don't know? How about using some common sense instead of being a fucking asshole?

The first 4 are required for live. The rest is you making a false analogue and trying to construct an strawman so you can tear it down. Nobody is suggesting anybody should be given a sports car.

This isn't an honest question when you make the deliberately leading premise about being "unwilling" to earn it. There's a huge gulf between "unwilling" and "unable". I hope you never end up losing your job through no fault of your own in a down economy.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

And, coincidentally, today's XKCD is titled "Job Interview." I'll leave it to you programming whizzes to look for it yourselves.

StephenCleary · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

I suspect the real number is much higher. The 23% is only as of November 4th, and this month has been notable for a large number of very public cancellation notices.

According to the Obama administration's research, "62 percent of individual market plans don't offer maternity care". Since maternity care is mandatory for an ObamaCare plan, that's at least 62% of plans that are dropped.

Here's my situation: my employer is a small company that does 100% remote work with employees in several states. The easiest solution is to have employees purchase private insurance and reimburse us up to a certain amount per month.

When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

I looked into how much an equivalent ObamaCare plan will cost. It turns out to be $320 more per month, after subsidies. This value takes into account the fact that my old health plan covers dental but the ObamaCare plan does not (so the full ObamaCare cost was calculated including dental).

That's $320/mo more out of pocket. Affordable Care Act, indeed.

This is just my story. Many more here.

Sigh. This is not spam, Aksimet.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

I'm not sure what I'm missing, but this doesn't seem like dwtf material. This sort of things happens all the time, and people should NEVER put in notice before receiving a formal offer. It's not Paul's fault, the recruiter's fault, or Paul's boss's fault that this happened. It's Bob's fault. End of story.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Anon:
Josh:
Anon:
Ahh...so people who are employed have some greater inherent right not to die. Got it.

I know I'll get flamed for this, but where do you draw the line? I'm genuinely curious:

health care food shelter education . . .

This is an honest question. What shouldn't you be entitled to if you're unwilling to earn it for yourself or your family?

Gee...I don't know? How about using some common sense instead of being a fucking asshole?

The first 4 are required for live. The rest is you making a false analogue and trying to construct an strawman so you can tear it down. Nobody is suggesting anybody should be given a sports car.

This isn't an honest question when you make the deliberately leading premise about being "unwilling" to earn it. There's a huge gulf between "unwilling" and "unable". I hope you never end up losing your job through no fault of your own in a down economy.

It isn't just that the first 4 are required for the individual to live, it simply is in society's best interest to assist in those 4 areas. It is better to provide minimum care/shelter/food to the have-nots (due to whatever cause: laziness, disability, mental health issues, shitty luck, etc.) at the expense of the haves than it is to deny those benefits and suffer the likely consequences (elevated crime levels, etc.)

No welfare system is going to work perfectly because there are always going to be the few who take advantage of the many. It is a problem that afflicts every aspect of human cooperation. There's a lot of people who work on Wall Street, for example, and I'm certain the Bernie Madoffs are relatively few by comparison.

Refusing to even try to improve a problem just because a few (again, relatively speaking) will take advantage is a stupid mindset.

herby · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

One should get the steps in order: Step 1: Get offer in writing. Step 2: Give notice.

Of course, if you have the ability: Step1a: Take a vacation. Step1b: Start new Job.

As for health care: I'm just waiting to get some WTF stories about the implementation of the web site. Given the press on this, there should be a bunch of stories here.

Given the current people in DC, it begs the question: Why work? If you don't you get almost everything free (including cell phones!).

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Damn right. I was interviewed once for a job in Prague. All went well, interviewer said "Expect an offer by the end of the week: if I were you, I'd resign now".

I didn't.

That conversation was the last I heard about the position.

Unrelated, but a little while later the company was busted for charging their employer for <n + m> bums on seats in Prague, when they only had <n> bums there. (n, m > 0)

Captcha: genitus - genitals that are really at a genius level?

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

herby:
One should get the steps in order: Step 1: Get offer in writing. Step 2: Give notice.
Of course, if you have the ability: Step1a: Take a vacation. Step1b: Start new Job.

As for health care: I'm just waiting to get some WTF stories about the implementation of the web site. Given the press on this, there should be a bunch of stories here.

Given the current people in DC, it begs the question: Why work? If you don't you get almost everything free (including cell phones!).

Why work? Because life on welfare probably sucks, free shit or not. I wouldn't know, never been on it and hope I am.

The problem with the US Government has nothing to do with the programs they try to implement. It is the actual implementation of those programs that sucks. Complete incompetence, mismanagement and lack of accountability is the status quo. Admittedly, I have no idea how to fix it, but leaving it as is is insane.

For all the people who plead to cut welfare programs, let's start with eliminating all foreign aid. If the budget is still out of balance, let's start cutting domestic aid. We pour trillions of dollars down the toilets of other countries but remain focused on the billions that we pour down our own. Doesn't make sense.

Oh yeah, Bob was an idiot and Paul dodged a bullet on that one.

StephenCleary · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

I find that asking nicely works well. :) Our local hospital allows setting up a payment system (at 0% APR) and - based on experience from siblings - they just forgive the debt after a while if you're willing to beg...

I did assume that my wife would not need a C-section or NICU. Again, in my specific situation, my wife already gave birth twice with no complications. Both times were uncannily healthy and fully natural (and fast!). So I'm not saying that denying the maternity rider was the right option for everyone, and if it would have been cheaper I would have gone for it. BTW, the maternity rider alone was $350/mo, 100% out of pocket.

So far, we've had two children when we did have maternity coverage; we have not had any since going private (without maternity coverage). I don't know the total costs of the first one (sorry), but the portion we paid was $2411.82 (in July). The second one had total costs of ~$3500, of which we paid $1725.93 (in November). Note that these were two perfectly healthy births with no issues and minimal recovery stay. So, I figured - based on the last birth - that "maternal coverage" just doesn't bring much value when you factor in the deductible for a normally-healthy family.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

You negotiate the price down by showing you simply can't pay the price. Then they have the option of you going bankrupt, or being <bleeping> reasonable.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

C-Derb:
The problem with the US Government has nothing to do with the programs they try to implement. It is the actual implementation of those programs that sucks. Complete incompetence, mismanagement and lack of accountability is the status quo. Admittedly, I have no idea how to fix it, but leaving it as is is insane.
For all the people who plead to cut welfare programs, let's start with eliminating all foreign aid. If the budget is still out of balance, let's start cutting domestic aid. We pour trillions of dollars down the toilets of other countries but remain focused on the billions that we pour down our own. Doesn't make sense.

Agreed. Most of the current welfare programs (having grown up in a family on such) are designed to prevent people from being able to graduate to doing it on their own. Once on a government program, it's hard to get off.

With regards to foreign aid, a lot of that budget is really just a friendly name for financing terrorists of our enemies. In other words, without the last ~75 years of foreign aid, most of our "diplomatic issues" with the middle east would have never been a problem.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Valued Service:
Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

You negotiate the price down by showing you simply can't pay the price. Then they have the option of you going bankrupt, or being <bleeping> reasonable.

In my case, I HAD insurance, but after telling me over the phone that everything was fine and they'd cover my treatment, in the end they declined to pay, claiming that my treatment was not necessary. (They paid a limited amount, like $2,000 or $5,000, and left me holding the bag for the rest.)

Needless to say I didn't tell the hospital that I had the other $15,000 that they wanted sitting gathering dust in my bank account (it was a principles thing: my insurance shoulda paid; that probably would have resulted in a big fight between the hospital and the insurance company because the hospital had held me involuntarily and refused to release me until their doctors said I was ready to go), and they eventually offered to lower the bill to $500. Fuck the insurance companies; they're just in it to make a profit and didn't care if a ten-day stay in the hospital was going to cost me my life savings.

chubertdev · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

The best advice that I got the last time that I was job hunting: get two offers in writing before giving notice.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

anonymous:
Valued Service:
Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

You negotiate the price down by showing you simply can't pay the price. Then they have the option of you going bankrupt, or being <bleeping> reasonable.
In my case, I HAD insurance, but after telling me over the phone that everything was fine and they'd cover my treatment, in the end they declined to pay, claiming that my treatment was not necessary. (They paid a limited amount, like $2,000 or $5,000, and left me holding the bag for the rest.)

Needless to say I didn't tell the hospital that I had the other $15,000 that they wanted sitting gathering dust in my bank account (it was a principles thing: my insurance shoulda paid; that probably would have resulted in a big fight between the hospital and the insurance company because the hospital had held me involuntarily and refused to release me until their doctors said I was ready to go), and they eventually offered to lower the bill to $500. Fuck the insurance companies; they're just in it to make a profit and didn't care if a ten-day stay in the hospital was going to cost me my life savings.

See. God forbid we have a government bureaucracy getting in the way of health care when we have such great private bureaucracies to screw you over instead.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

I was once met and spoke to the CTO for a summer job at a company, helping out with maintaining their servers while their main personnel went on vacation. The meeting seemed to go well and he proceeded to give me a complete tour of the entire company but he mentioned that nothing was sure yet and that I had to check with him again closer to summer. Once May came I tried to contact him two times a week on his mobile work phone number he had given me. The asshole never answered, called back or in any way or form informed me that the position had been filled, was unavailable, I was a bad fit or that I did not possess the necessary skills.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

eric76:
I knew one guy who accepted early retirement from his job as a contractor to a certain government agency.
One of the terms of the agreement was that he could not work in competition with his former employer. If he did, his early retirement benefits were permanently gone. He was also barred by the terms of the agreement from filing any legal actions against the employer.

So the employer could just stop his benefits without any reason, and he couldn't complain? Or ruin his reputation, steal his money, kill his wife, whatever ...

Why on earth did he accept such a stupid clause?

ObiWayneKenobi · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

foo AKA fooo:
eric76:
I knew one guy who accepted early retirement from his job as a contractor to a certain government agency.
One of the terms of the agreement was that he could not work in competition with his former employer. If he did, his early retirement benefits were permanently gone. He was also barred by the terms of the agreement from filing any legal actions against the employer.
So the employer could just stop his benefits without any reason, and he couldn't complain? Or ruin his reputation, steal his money, kill his wife, whatever ...

Why on earth did he accept such a stupid clause?

I think the better question is what kind of shit company not only has a clause like that but also has it apply not only now but any time in the future? They MIGHT bid, so you can't work for the other company on the off chance they do bid. It'd be like them calling up the company 5 years later and saying that you have to be fired because 5 years ago you signed some crap like that and they are now bidding on the same thing, therefore you are in competition and violating the agreement.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

A guy got overconfident about a job prospect and stepped on his johnson, no IT was involved.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

what does this got to do with IT WTF?

SeekerOfThings · 2013-11-20 Reply Admin

clively:
SeekerOfThings:
*snip* I took my crew drinking for the day, then had to call my buddy and tell him the news. I don't know what caused the bridge to burn, but his job was gone, and they weren't going to let him take back his two weeks.

There are very very few places that would allow you a "take back" after you've turned in your notice. I know I wouldn't. If the situation has reached the point that the employee has decided to leave, then it stands to reason that any "take backs" about their notice is simply temporary.

True enough. I've got a standing "take back" with a group I used to work with a couple of years ago, but I'll grant it's a rarity. I felt bad about the guy though since we'd worked and hung out together before, and the crunch in 2000 hit, so he was without work for a while.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Btw, I heard tales regarding companies that keep posting job and interviewing, then when about to give offer they told the candidate about budget freeze or other reason to dismiss them. In that way the HR staff can satify their "performance metric" (Number of interviews performed in the month).

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

faoileag:
no laughing matter:
The go-to man in the state department, he messes-up the healthcare that others never have left behind.
Question is: did he really? From what I've read most of the bad press stems from the fact that the rollout of Obamacare has been a desaster. You couldn't register at the website etc. Stuff like that.

That's because the press is burying the real story. The real story is that Obama promised "if you like your health care plan, you can keep it, period" and repeated it dozens of times. And dozens of Democrat Senators made the same claim. And they were making this claim after 2010 when their own numbers showed that easily 50% of Americans wouldn't be able to keep their plans. Now people are finding that their plans are being cancelled and replaced with more expensive plans with higher deductibles and worse benefits.

There's also a huge wave of fraud already starting, not only with fraudulent exchanges, but Obamacare "navigators" have been caught telling people to lie on the paperwork. But the real issue is the huge number of people being enrolled in Medicare, which was already on shaky grounds.

None of these problems are going to go away when the website finally starts working. And don't assume it will; there have been plenty of high profile government attempts to put together large systems that have failed.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Anon:
anonymous:
Valued Service:
Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

You negotiate the price down by showing you simply can't pay the price. Then they have the option of you going bankrupt, or being <bleeping> reasonable.
In my case, I HAD insurance, but after telling me over the phone that everything was fine and they'd cover my treatment, in the end they declined to pay, claiming that my treatment was not necessary. (They paid a limited amount, like $2,000 or $5,000, and left me holding the bag for the rest.)

Needless to say I didn't tell the hospital that I had the other $15,000 that they wanted sitting gathering dust in my bank account (it was a principles thing: my insurance shoulda paid; that probably would have resulted in a big fight between the hospital and the insurance company because the hospital had held me involuntarily and refused to release me until their doctors said I was ready to go), and they eventually offered to lower the bill to $500. Fuck the insurance companies; they're just in it to make a profit and didn't care if a ten-day stay in the hospital was going to cost me my life savings.

See. God forbid we have a government bureaucracy getting in the way of health care when we have such great private bureaucracies to screw you over instead.

The private bureaucracies only exist because medical expenses can't be deducted from your taxes, and because everyone is subsidizing Medicare. That's what's turned insurance into an elaborate payment plan.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Dear Americans,

Please just stop cluttering up unrelated topics with your inane, simplistic, uneducated sloganeering about a fairly straightforward topic that the rest of western civilization has already solved.

I get that you're going to fuck up health care, just as you fuck up voting and gun laws and practically everything else. Good for you. But maybe you could have your stupid yelling matches ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

God Bless America:
Dear Americans,
Please just stop cluttering up unrelated topics with your inane, simplistic, uneducated sloganeering about a fairly straightforward topic that the rest of western civilization has already solved.

I get that you're going to fuck up health care, just as you fuck up voting and gun laws and practically everything else. Good for you. But maybe you could have your stupid yelling matches ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET.

I am an American and entitled to free speech. You are not required to listen. Enjoy your life in whatever country you come from where you feel it normal to dictate what others wish to express.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Paul Neumann:
Meanwhile, back on topic... Is it really common practice to begin seeking fulfillment for a position without adjusting the budget in anticipation of the expense? If the budget had been augmented to include the anticipated costs of a new hire prior to interviewing, then a budget freeze should not have affected the process which had already begun.

WTF? The budget always includes the new hire -- but of course, we are talking about the budget those same VPs made months ago. If is almost unheard to create a position out of cycle. You don't get to recruit unless the position was already in the budget -- either to hire a new person, or to pay the person who occupied the position (and subsequently vacated it).

The budget also includes a forecast of how much money is going to roll in -- if something is going south there, every expense goes under the microscope, and hires are about the hugest expense you can fathom.

Perhaps you are confusing "having a position in the budget" with "having approval to hire". When the time to recruit comes along, you still won't be able to hire anybody, unless:

(a) the VPs thought the position was necessary back during the last planning cycle (b) the VPs still think the position is really needed (will really deliver much more value than it will cost), and (c) none of the VPs are spooked about the company's financial position.

That might sound crazy, but that's exactly what you would do if you ever had to answer for a rotten quarter. A director who can't get this stuff right is like a programmer who doesn't understand arrays.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

StephenCleary:
I suspect the real number is much higher. The 23% is only as of November 4th, and this month has been notable for a large number of very public cancellation notices.
According to the Obama administration's research, "62 percent of individual market plans don't offer maternity care". Since maternity care is mandatory for an ObamaCare plan, that's at least 62% of plans that are dropped.

Here's my situation: my employer is a small company that does 100% remote work with employees in several states. The easiest solution is to have employees purchase private insurance and reimburse us up to a certain amount per month.

When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

I looked into how much an equivalent ObamaCare plan will cost. It turns out to be $320 more per month, after subsidies. This value takes into account the fact that my old health plan covers dental but the ObamaCare plan does not (so the full ObamaCare cost was calculated including dental).

That's $320/mo more out of pocket. Affordable Care Act, indeed.

This is just my story. Many more here.

Sigh. This is not spam, Aksimet.

I for one wouldn't bother with the maternity coverage because I'm not planning maternity. You may suggest that it may fall upon me without my so wishing, but I point out that a) I'm male and b) I'm old enough for conception to be a doubtful possibility. It is also worth mentioning that there is not yet a program of compulsory impregnation of late-middle-aged men in the land where I come from, but I would not be surprised if it were brought into effect in certain other nations in the world.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

SeekerOfThings:
clively:
SeekerOfThings:
*snip* I took my crew drinking for the day, then had to call my buddy and tell him the news. I don't know what caused the bridge to burn, but his job was gone, and they weren't going to let him take back his two weeks.

There are very very few places that would allow you a "take back" after you've turned in your notice. I know I wouldn't. If the situation has reached the point that the employee has decided to leave, then it stands to reason that any "take backs" about their notice is simply temporary.

True enough. I've got a standing "take back" with a group I used to work with a couple of years ago, but I'll grant it's a rarity. I felt bad about the guy though since we'd worked and hung out together before, and the crunch in 2000 hit, so he was without work for a while.

I've seen several takebacks in more than one company I've worked for, sometimes within weeks, sometimes months, usually when the job moved to didn't work out as well as it was planned, and so on. Reasonable companies populated by adults are often like that.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
foo AKA fooo:
eric76:
I knew one guy who accepted early retirement from his job as a contractor to a certain government agency.
One of the terms of the agreement was that he could not work in competition with his former employer. If he did, his early retirement benefits were permanently gone. He was also barred by the terms of the agreement from filing any legal actions against the employer.
So the employer could just stop his benefits without any reason, and he couldn't complain? Or ruin his reputation, steal his money, kill his wife, whatever ...

Why on earth did he accept such a stupid clause?

I think the better question is what kind of shit company not only has a clause like that but also has it apply not only now but any time in the future? They MIGHT bid, so you can't work for the other company on the off chance they do bid. It'd be like them calling up the company 5 years later and saying that you have to be fired because 5 years ago you signed some crap like that and they are now bidding on the same thing, therefore you are in competition and violating the agreement.

In such clauses there is often a time limit, e.g. 6 months to a year, during which the ukase holds.

2013-11-20 Reply Admin

Paul Neumann:
God Bless America:
Dear Americans,
Please just stop cluttering up unrelated topics with your inane, simplistic, uneducated sloganeering about a fairly straightforward topic that the rest of western civilization has already solved.

I get that you're going to fuck up health care, just as you fuck up voting and gun laws and practically everything else. Good for you. But maybe you could have your stupid yelling matches ANYWHERE ELSE ON THE INTERNET.
I am an American and entitled to free speech. You are not required to listen. Enjoy your life in whatever country you come from where you feel it normal to dictate what others wish to express.

You Americans are indeed entitled to free speech. Doesn't stop the rest of us pointing out that most of what comes out of your festering gobs is shit.

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

ObiWayneKenobi:
Of course, I've heard horror stories where you DO have an offer and a start date, and then Sunday night you're told not to come in Monday because of something that happened, so it's not like waiting really matters.

I seem guys hired on a H1B visa, go through the whole nine yards, show up to work and be and be told, we decided eliminate your position, goodbye. Company I worked at also did that to a guy that was already working on an H1B visa, hired him, then rescinded the offer. Unlike a green card, you only get to work two different jobs on a H1B. Poor sap had to return to India.

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

Heh. Or the flip side of that ... in the middle of the bay area, in 2011, I saw people hired into a part of our company that was going to get spun off into its own new company, and then get laid off when we decided that was a bad idea. Including one guy whose first day was also his last day.

Here's the best part, though: Everyone who had joined the new group and got laid off got 4 months' severance. And in this market, very easily found another job. In some cases within that same week. I know a few of those folks -- nobody felt all that bad about it :)

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

Charles F.:
Obama cares!:
Bob discovered that without income, he cannot afford Obamacare.
Without income, you get subsidies or Medicaid.
In no other industrialized country does losing your job mean that you might die of a treatable disease. The ACA has made this better, but hasn't really fixed it.

Of course, we wouldn't want a socialist healthcare system. Have you seen the Mad Max movies? That's what happened to Australia after they instituted a national healthcare coverage system. Germany's health care system has left it looking like it did after WWII. And Sweden? A nightmarish hell on earth.

Thanks God the USA has not succumbed to such madness.

CAPTCHA: appellatio (n) What you call it when an Apple fan boi sucks on an iPhone.

Totally agree! If people have healthcare they're getting older and are paid more retirement pension just for being alive! That's so un-American. America means you get money for working and not money for vegetating! Jack Kevorkian for president (if he would still be alive)!

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

Shoreline:
As for HR "what should we tell him", as mentioned, that's their job, but at a guess they were just looking for Paul's opinion on the matter, and Bob was probably right there and able to hear half the conversation.
This is not a problem with bureaucracy, this is a problem with a lack protocol or following it. HS should have turned Bob away and explained not to prematurely quit a job. Bob should not have prematurely quit his job. HR sound like they could have worded their question better: "Ok, I'll let him know. Is there anything further I should add to that?" I don't really think HR is much of a factor in this.

Actually, they shouldn't have been onto Paul in the first place. HR define the headcount and deliver contracts. They hadn't delivered a contract. The only thing HR might have needed to contact Paul about was whether he had given any guarantee or answer to HS or Bob - and once that's settled, Bob can be told that unless he can produce a signed letter of employment from the company, that's end of story.

HR passing the buck is becoming a scary trend among HR people lately. At my work, they don't really do anything; candidates are passed onto our third party contractor, offer letters are all template based from the legal dept, interviews are conducted by the team involved... essentially they fill in a few forms. They don't even handle the Christmas party anymore...

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

Calli Arcale:
StephenCleary:
When shopping for private insurance, I selected a plan that doesn't have maternity coverage. For the simple reason that if you only have a child every 18 months or so, maternity coverage isn't worth it; it's cheaper to pay cash (and easier to negotiate the price down).

Really? I'm genuinely curious. How do you negotiate the price downwards? In my experience with health care, the insurer's negotiated rates are always better than what I can negotiate on my own. (Exception: if you have financial hardships, the hospital may have grants they can use to fund your care, or they may forgive some of the cost. They don't generally do that if you're middle class, though.)

BTW, I had an emergency c-section that went pretty well in 2003. It cost over $15,000 (insurer negotiated rate; I paid $100 copay). I didn't need any transfusions or surgery beyond the c-section itself, and the baby was fine. NICU care can easily push your cost into six or even seven figures. Are you sure that it will be cheaper to pay out of pocket?

I don't have experience with any huge medical costs (although I've heard the negotiate without insurance and paying the hospital/doctor directly is much cheaper).

But my wife is currently having acupuncture treatment. She is charged the same price without insurance as what someone is charged after the insurance kicks in. So she pays $30 for a treatment. Someone else that is covered 30% is charged $39 and their insurance would pay $9 and the individual pays $30. So my wife is getting a better deal. The great news is that my insurance pays 80% for this treatment, so I submit forms and I get $24 back. Of course I have to deal with the insurance company rather than the acupuncturist.

There is an incentive to go into the hospital and see how much they'd charge if you deal directly with them rather than through insurance. You might work out a price that ends up being cheaper for you.

Zemm · 2013-11-21 Reply Admin

asd:
Never ever fucking resign before you've signed the new contract... how dense can one be

LOL I never signed the contract where I am now. It's been a year since I started. (I didn't sign because there were a few relatively minor clauses I didn't agree with so they said they'd re-draft the contract and get back to me...)

No problems with pay or benefits so I'm not sure what the point of an employment contract is...

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

The Crunger:
That might sound crazy, but that's exactly what you would do if you ever had to answer for a rotten quarter. A director who can't get this stuff right is like a programmer who doesn't understand arrays.

Thank you for the remember response. Lucky for me, I am no director. :-)

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

the guy burned his bridges before anything was on paper;
damagement panics at its own incompetence and has knee-jerk reactions;
recruiters care only about their commissions and lie more than politicians.

the real wtf is your misunderstanding of it all!

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

The real WTF is having your mobile number stored where a Human Resources drone can give it to a disgruntled lunatic.

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

The real WTF is "Paul" not taking ONE of "Bob"s calls and trying to explain the situation. If Bob carried on after that call the cops, but he deserved ONE chance to hear the story from "Paul". It's called professional coertesy.

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

Edmund:
The real WTF is having your mobile number stored where a Human Resources drone can give it to a disgruntled lunatic.

TRWTF is everybody assuming that the disgruntled candidate was calling when Paul never bother to pick the fucking phone up. Could have been anybody. Could have been a wrong number.

For some reason this story has sparked more rampant speculation than most.

chubertdev · 2013-11-21 Reply Admin

So I found out yesterday that one of my friends is having her insurance premium raised by 850%. I'm not sure how you can defend that.

2013-11-21 Reply Admin

chubertdev:
So I found out yesterday that one of my friends is having her insurance premium raised by 850%. I'm not sure how you can defend that.

A) Quit trolling - you hate Obama, we get it. B) That figure is completely meaningless without know the actual initial value. C) Pics or it didn't happen - i.e. why should we believe you aren't making shit up (see A). My friend had their premium drop by 99% and got a personal blow job from Obama. Any one can say whatever shit they want.

Jumping the Resigna-gun

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