• Sandor (unregistered)

    Brilliant,

    I always hope that some day i can think of such a great way to spend a fortune and end up annoying the hell out of poor and unsuspecting students. I guess, i will be just dreaming to be close to such an extravagant scheme.

    Olaf

  • No (unregistered) in reply to Marcel
    Marcel:
    No:
    "as a 20 character username will handle 10^28 users."

    uh ok so I guess this is a numeric username (thus 10 digits)? But a 20 character username, assuming only numbers, would only handle 10^20 users, not 10^28.

    26 (letters in the English alphabet) ^ 20 ~= 10^28.

    26^20 = 10^28 + 9,928,148,895,209,409,152,340,197,376 (that's a huge underestimate for one little ~)

    Also, it said I's looked like 1's and O's looked like 0's so that partially implies it's alphanumeric

    Finally, if it were the case, wouldn't it be just as easy to write 26^20 as 10^28? And the author wouldn't have been off by almost 10 gajillion

  • (cs) in reply to kastein
    kastein:
    The "Seriously Annoying Programs" phrase is a quite obvious, but legally defensible reference to them.

    ... apparently not obvious enough

    Maybe they haven't yet built their reputation outside Europe?
  • Roy (unregistered) in reply to No

    Good point. Given that they mentioned they take uppercase and lowercase letters (in addition to numbers), the actual number of possible usernames is 62^20 ((26+26+10)^20), which is 704,423,425,546,998,022,968,330,264,616,370,176. The closest power of ten to that is 10^36 (which is approximately 42% larger).

  • Mad Morf (unregistered) in reply to Quango

    Clearly referring to SAP...

    And I concur.

  • A Gould (unregistered) in reply to tm
    tm:
    I'm not convinced by this "good old coin-fed machines are better" argument. They may get mechanical failures, and someone WILL try to steal the money.
    I'm trying to remember if I ever heard of people trying to steal the money out of campus coin-ops. The ones I remember were secured with big padlocks...
    At my university campus in Finland, we pay the laundry by mobile phone. Call the number, and the laundry machine activates. The charge appears on your phone bill. Perhaps it's not better than coin-fed machines, but not really worse either. During my 3 years here, I've had one case when it didn't work on the first try, but it worked when I retried a moment later.

    Can't see that working in North America - by the time I pay for the phone, the airtime, and the extra charge for using an out of network washing machine, I wouldn't be able to afford the laundry!

  • Zapp Brannigan (unregistered)

    Few things burn through excess cash like a bungled SAP implementation. They probably could have hired attendants at top union wages for less than the cost of going on-line. I'd like to see their ROI calculations. Just think about the technology required by this system just so you can do your OWN laundry. I'd wash with a bucket and washboard and dry using a clothes line.

  • Who is responsible (unregistered)

    I hate stories like that... or rather I hate the fact that they are so prevelent.

    If i was going to that university, I'd really want to know who was responsible for wasting my tuition and allowing the "large company" to get away with crap like that. That person or comity has the first line of responsibility.

  • Who is responsible (unregistered)

    dang... can't edit a post! arg...

  • Procedural (unregistered)

    Half the issues would have evaporated on time if only they had run Lint on the code.

  • Pro (unregistered) in reply to rpjs

    How can anyone "loathe" Opera? I have to use Windows XP at work, and you can be damn sure I always use Opera for web browsing, as it's fast and very ergonomic. At home I use Linux, and alternate between Firefox and Opera.

    Born in the '80s, are you?

  • Neil (unregistered)

    I cry foul about these supposed Mac users - they can afford a $3,000 laptop, but still live in the dorms?

  • Thomas Misund (unregistered)

    I'm a victim of this system. I had to install Windows in a virtual machine to be able to wash my clothes, but hey, it wasn't enough: The billing system doesn't recognize my credit card's online authorization. Washing my clothes at my girlfriend's ... and moving out in two months.

  • Thomas Misund (unregistered) in reply to Neil

    A great deal of IT students in Oslo are using different GNU/Linux distributions as their preferred tool.

  • iToad (unregistered) in reply to Herby
    Herby:
    The only way this is NOT going to be a WTF incident is to have those responsible for the implementation be required to use the "system" as designed. When the designers are forced to see the problems, only then will the WFT problems be fixed.

    In business, this is called "Eating your own dog food".

  • DeepThought (unregistered) in reply to Lon Wett
    Lon Wett:
    I am really getting tired of self-appointed petty bureaucrats dictating that Mac users (true, less than 50% of the population, so who really cares) Linux users (OK, less than 5%) and Windows users with clue enough to stay clear of MSIE (0.5%? because if you have clue, why are you on Windows in the first place?) will be blocked from participating in an increasingly digital life. I mean, really, W. T. F. are you thinking? Do we have to resort to flogging you in the public square or what? It is far past time to put a painful end to this nonsense!

    I customize software developed by "really big company" and that company (who shall remain nameless) was thoughtful enough to make sure that the development environment only works on Windows. The production software can be run on virtually any major platform including main-frames (running Z/Linux). Of course, they restricted the ability to access the administrative interfaces to folks using IE browsers only.

    While I'd love nothing more than to toss Windows to the curb, I'm forced to deal with it in order get my work done - or at least done in the most productive way possible.

  • (cs) in reply to Who is responsible
    Who is responsible:
    dang... can't edit a post! arg...
    Well, there's a method to get that ability.

    Captcha: register?

  • (cs) in reply to krupa
    krupa:
    Al:
    TRWTF is that you can network washing machines.

    Amen.

    Why is this system, even if it works perfectly, better than a change machine?

    I can name two things:

    1. Students don't have cash, but they have credit cards. (Thanks VisaMasterCardDiscover!)
    2. The person charged with emptying machines can get robbed. This happened in my town so the laundromat went to prepaid cards that you bought/recharged at a kiosk with cash.
    So instead, the guy emptying the kiosk gets robbed?
  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Obligatory link: a non-WTF real-time laundry server:

    http://laundry.mit.edu

    and another http://rutgers.esuds.net

  • Patrik (unregistered) in reply to Kirt

    And I'm thinking that there are better (read: standardized) ways of doing things in 2009 so that anyone, no matter how obscure the system, as long as it conforms to standards (not Microsoft de facto standards) can have as pleasant time as ... well anyone forced to use MSIE ;D

  • krupa (unregistered) in reply to tm
    tm:
    I'm not convinced by this "good old coin-fed machines are better" argument. They may get mechanical failures, and someone WILL try to steal the money.

    The question is, "what do we mean by 'better'?".

    True, coin-operated machines suffer mechanical failures in the coin-accepter. And yes, people will try to steal the money either directly or just try to steal washes with fake coins.

    But at the same time, how many more points-of-failure do you introduce by (and I can't believe I'm saying this phrase) networking your washing machines? Also, how much personal information do they need to store on a server somewhere in order to properly charge you?

    It's probably more convenient to you, the customer, to call your washing machine but does that really make it 'better'?

  • krupa (unregistered) in reply to operagost
    operagost:
    krupa:
    1. The person charged with emptying machines can get robbed. This happened in my town so the laundromat went to prepaid cards that you bought/recharged at a kiosk with cash.
    So instead, the guy emptying the kiosk gets robbed?
    I figured someone would bring that up.

    The primary advantage is that you can quickly empty the kiosk. Emptying each machine takes much more time. I'm not saying the guy won't get robbed again, but he's probably lowered the odds quite a bit.

  • vtcodger (unregistered)

    ***Chill out dude. I'm thinking that practically everyone has access to a Windows machine somewhere nearby, so why should I be expected to code for every oddball platform no one's ever seen before? ***

    I know this is a radical idea, but washing machine interfacing wouldn't seem to be rocket science exactly. Ten to one, someone who actually knows something about web page design can do the interface in standard W3C compliant HTML in about two hours. It would then be usable on just about any device that supports any web browser. Or via netcat for that matter for those who thinks browsers are too effeminate.

    ====

    BTW, In my youth, about 50 years ago, I actually repaired coin operated washing machines and driers for a while. I can't think of any respect in which they would not be superior to a computer based system.

  • Martin Milan (unregistered) in reply to Kirt
    Chill out dude. I'm thinking that practically everyone has access to a Windows machine somewhere nearby, so why should I be expected to code for every oddball platform no one's ever seen before?

    No - of course you shouldn't. You shouldn't be coding for any particular platform, but rather to simply dish out lovely, clean, standards compliant HTML, CSS etc, and have it actually work on the market leading browser.

    And really, anyone who sniffs the browser to deny a user these days should be taken out and shot.

    Martin.

  • Matt S (unregistered)

    Whatever happened to featured comments?

  • numbers wrong still (unregistered) in reply to Roy

    10^36 is not 42% larger than 10^26. It's a bit more. Like 1000000000000% more.

  • helix (unregistered) in reply to Voodoo Coder
    Voodoo Coder:
    This is an insane case of over engineering...

    Seriously...wtf is wrong with putting a change machine up alongside a set of reliable quarter-fed laundry machines?

    There is a serious problem with what you are doing when you need to configure your washing machine with an IP address.

    why quarter fed machines in Oslo?

  • helix (unregistered) in reply to Matt S
    Matt S:
    Whatever happened to featured comments?
    credit crunch
  • Some coder (unregistered) in reply to Jonathan Levy
    Jonathan Levy:
    If the machines are always running, that's 100% efficiency.

    If for each hour's use, you have (on average) half an hour's idle time, isn't that 66% efficiency?

    I think you mean utilization not efficiency, unless these dryers don't use any energy.

  • (cs) in reply to numbers wrong still
    numbers wrong still:
    10^36 is not 42% larger than 10^26. It's a bit more. Like 1000000000000% more.

    Okay, but no one said it was. Roy was saying that 10^36 is 42% larger than 62^20.

  • Ratchetr (unregistered)
    Let’s say a machine takes 1 hour, and I reserve it from 12:00. This means that after 11:01 nobody could start a new machine, as it would crash with my reservation.
    Why would the machine crash just because there's a schedule clash?
    On average, this would cause a half hour idle period for each reservation, or a 50% drop in efficiency.
    Isn't this only true if there are only 2 machines? If there were say 6 machines, then one should be finishing on average every 10 minutes. So you have ~16% drop in efficiency? (Granted, I'm assuming a random distribution of start times, which probably isn't a good assumption here.)
  • (cs) in reply to Ilya Ehrenburg
    Ilya Ehrenburg:
    kastein:
    The "Seriously Annoying Programs" phrase is a quite obvious, but legally defensible reference to them.

    ... apparently not obvious enough

    Maybe they haven't yet built their reputation outside Europe?

    No, they're famous in the other hemisphere as well. Some readers here are just a little "more special" than the others.

  • (cs)
    It was simple enough. Fill your account with a certain amount of money using your credit card, then wash.
    Ah, yes. A lucrative idea, and one that Starbucks has put to good use. Sell a "Starbucks Card" for a prepaid amount, and then the user enjoys the prestige of having a Starbucks Card to pull out in front of coworkers, dates, etc., plus the convenience of simply presenting the card to make a purchase, rather than presenting his debit card.

    Meanwhile, Starbucks enjoys an interest-free loan from the user until the card's value is used up.

  • tekiegreg (unregistered)

    From the article:

    Seriously Annoying Programs

    Subtle message here? I think not!

  • Some coder (unregistered) in reply to avflinsch
    avflinsch:
    Anonymous:
    Obligatory link: a non-WTF real-time laundry server:

    http://laundry.mit.edu

    and another http://rutgers.esuds.net

    As a Rutgers CS grad, I couldn't be more proud!!!

  • synp (unregistered) in reply to Ratchetr
    Ratchetr:
    Isn't this only true if there are only 2 machines? If there were say 6 machines, then one should be finishing on average every 10 minutes. So you have ~16% drop in efficiency? (Granted, I'm assuming a random distribution of start times, which probably isn't a good assumption here.)

    I think you reserve a particular machine, and then the random distribution doesn't mean much.

  • Bad Context (unregistered) in reply to samanddeanus
    samanddeanus:
    Sites that only work in IE for the lose.

    Also, it should be Emacs/Linux, not Mac/Linux -- I think you left out a few letters by mistake.

    Mac/Linux means Apple Macintosh or Linux.

    Also, I have seen quite a few WTF programs written in Emacs LISP. So, that interpretation makes me cringe.

  • (cs) in reply to Code Dependent
    Code Dependent:
    It was simple enough. Fill your account with a certain amount of money using your credit card, then wash.
    Ah, yes. A lucrative idea, and one that Starbucks has put to good use. Sell a "Starbucks Card" for a prepaid amount, and then the user enjoys the prestige of having a Starbucks Card to pull out in front of coworkers, dates, etc., plus the convenience of simply presenting the card to make a purchase, rather than presenting his debit card.

    Meanwhile, Starbucks enjoys an interest-free loan from the user until the card's value is used up.

    The real kicker is that cash is much faster at the point that the sale is being done, and it continues to work even when the network is down. These are real issues when selling coffee to people in a hurry. (The "inner wallet" effect — where someone, usually female, has their purse inside a bag in a handbag in another bag — about balances out, since both money and cards are subject to the same problem.)

    Sorry for the rant. It's a bit of an irritation to me when I miss a connection because someone ahead in the queue is insisting on paying in the slowest fashion possible...

  • (cs) in reply to Bad Context
    Bad Context:
    samanddeanus:
    Sites that only work in IE for the lose.

    Also, it should be Emacs/Linux, not Mac/Linux -- I think you left out a few letters by mistake.

    Mac/Linux means Apple Macintosh or Linux.

    Also, I have seen quite a few WTF programs written in Emacs LISP. So, that interpretation makes me cringe.

    I know that, but it could also mean a wierd combination of MacOS and Linux, just like GNU/Linux is GNU's stuff and the Linux kernel.

  • (cs) in reply to Sven
    Sven:
    No:
    "as a 20 character username will handle 10^28 users."

    uh ok so I guess this is a numeric username (thus 10 digits)? But a 20 character username, assuming only numbers, would only handle 10^20 users, not 10^28.

    A 20 character username, with only uppercase LETTERS, as the post said, would allow 26^20 possibilities, which equals approximately 10^28.

    There are 29 letters in the Norwegian alphabet. Redoing the subsequent calculations is left as an exercise for the reader.

  • (cs) in reply to dkf
    dkf:
    Code Dependent:
    Meanwhile, Starbucks enjoys an interest-free loan from the user until the card's value is used up.
    The real kicker is that cash is much faster at the point that the sale is being done, and it continues to work even when the network is down. These are real issues when selling coffee to people in a hurry. (The "inner wallet" effect — where someone, usually female, has their purse inside a bag in a handbag in another bag — about balances out, since both money and cards are subject to the same problem.)

    Sorry for the rant. It's a bit of an irritation to me when I miss a connection because someone ahead in the queue is insisting on paying in the slowest fashion possible...

    Yeah, customers digging for money in a bag is an annoyance (why not have it out and ready when you give the order?) but if the store has keypads for debit cards, that's quicker because there's no wait while the cashier counts out the change.

    I still think the best part is giving them an interest-free loan. I had a manager once who kept the balance on his Starbucks card at or near $100. To his credit, though, he really did have a valid use for it. Now and then he would hand it to one of us to use for buying the team a round. By having a Starbucks card, he didn't have to go along.

  • Me, myself and I (unregistered) in reply to Thomas Misund
    Thomas Misund:
    A great deal of IT students in Oslo are using different GNU/Linux distributions as their preferred tool.

    So what's the GNU-equivalent to an university-accounting-solution? :D

  • boots (unregistered)

    From the rank young folks at MIT, apparently too busy inventing the future to do laundry:

     Fry (Dryer 1) has been off for 6 hours.

    Leela (Dryer 2) has been off for 55 minutes. Bender (Dryer 3) has been off for 56 minutes. Zoidberg (Dryer 4) has been off for 4 hours. Frylock (Washer 1) has been off for 66 days. Meatwad (Washer 2) has been off for 96 days. Shake (Washer 3) has been off for 80 minutes.

    4 dryers have been used today, but only 1 washing machine...

  • null reference (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Obligatory link: a non-WTF real-time laundry server:

    http://laundry.mit.edu

    And it even has dryers named after Futurama characters!

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to boots
    boots:
    From the rank young folks at MIT, apparently too busy inventing the future to do laundry: 
     Fry (Dryer 1) has been off for 6 hours.

    Leela (Dryer 2) has been off for 55 minutes. Bender (Dryer 3) has been off for 56 minutes. Zoidberg (Dryer 4) has been off for 4 hours. Frylock (Washer 1) has been off for 66 days. Meatwad (Washer 2) has been off for 96 days. Shake (Washer 3) has been off for 80 minutes.

    4 dryers have been used today, but only 1 washing machine...

    According to guys, dry == clean.

  • (cs)

    There are far too many grammar WTFs here to even try enumerate them. My favorite, however, is "dividable".

  • (cs)

    Book a washing machine and pay online in all laundries

    Oh, even better:

    Help for the online laundry system

    17.12.2008 Problems with log in, paying for your laundry or reserving a washing machine? Read these tips that may help you:

    1. Internet Explorer is the best browser to use for the online laundry system
    2. If you choose another browser, make sure you have the latest version, and that all necessary “plug-ins” are installed.
    3. Mac-computers may be used without problems, but make sure the browser is updated to the latest version and that all necessary ”plug-ins” are installed.
    4. If the browser-window is incomplete after logging in, check whether there are popup-blocks. If so, turn them off.
    5. It may be difficult to differ between 0 (zero) and O (capital letter), and between 1(one) and I(capital letter) in your username. Make sure you use CAPITAL letters. Most signs are letters, but some numbers may occur.
    6. The username may be typed in with or without space.
    7. It is very important to differ between CAPITAL letters and normal letters in the password
    8. It is possible to change user name and password. This must be done in each laundry room you wish to use, as the the password is stored locally in each laundry room.
    9. If you forget your personal username and password, you may always log in with the original username and password.
  • Troy (unregistered) in reply to Kirt

    "Every oddball platform no one's ever seen before"

    We call it Javascript, and just about every browser, even in Linux, supports it.

  • (cs) in reply to Kirt
    Kirt:
    Chill out dude. I'm thinking that practically everyone has access to a Windows machine somewhere nearby, so why should I be expected to code for every oddball platform no one's ever seen before?

    What's so hard about making HTML/CSS/JS which works on every browser on every OS?

    Also, at home I currently have no Windows machines. At university I do have access to some, but I tend to avoid those and use the Linux ones (which few people want to use).

  • Christian (unregistered)

    Hahaha

    This is definitely something I can relate to. I work as an IT-administrator at another Norwegian student dormitory.

    We have the same system, and the only solution for us was to hack the system and extract data from it!

    We dropped all the reservation and 20-char username nonsense and made our own system.

    We provide our tenants with a live overview of which machines are available. The system is also integrated with the accounting system, and you can actually se WHO is using each machine. (I believe we use the same accounting system as Sogn..) This is WAY better than the reservation scheme, and it works great :D

    Check it out here: http://www.bsn.no/portal/vaskeri

    All the machines communicate through UDP packages on a local network. They send out status packets every 30 seconds, and we managed to reverse engineer the proprietary miele protocol :)

    Oh, btw. Laundry machine systems aren't the only systems governed by stupidity and inflexibility. We have a system for remote reading of all the electricity meters. This "automated" system had to go through a guy with a spreadsheet and manual typos at the system "integrator" before we hacked it. We hacked the rs232 protocol it uses, and can now make cool features with that system as well :D

    Happy Hacking!

    • Christian

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