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Admin
When someone migrating a database says "Opse" when in time-critical moment... Yea... Um... Thats when you say ABORT!
I thought you are supposed to migrate to a new server... Once everything is good, shut old one down and start new one up. Thats... not 5 minutes of down time.
Admin
Those fancy new Stored Procedures...
I wonder if they implemented their own optimistic transaction locking system too.
Admin
After this type of story, does anyone else really need a reason for NOT buying enterprise software based on MS Access?
Admin
Admin
It sure seems like there are a disproportionate amount of WTF's involving a "central _______ server".
Admin
Well IMO there are several WTFs here:
It took me 20 secs and 3 refreshes to load the page with the article. ASPs finally running out of breath?
I am not really impressed with those guys. Creating views for each request? Lame, we have heard of whole numbers of tables created each time. I guess that in some kind of bussiness this one of the biggies in The Big Best SQL powered apps Practices BOok.
Strange thing is that I never liked access. TBH I allways hated it. But sure go ahead and use it as back-end for central whatever server...
Nice article anyways.
Admin
So the real WFT is that the first tests Henry tried were on a production server ...?
Admin
The start reminded me of part of an SAP upgrade document we read recently, went something like;
Of course, the guy doing it wasn't overly familiar with SQL Server and went ahead. Naturally the SAP Upgrade failed; "Unable to connect to SQL Server". We never figured out why the document instructed you to shut down the server right before it needed to upgrade the database. Maybe they wanted a reboot?
Admin
The real WTF is that this kind of crap is typical for the industry. Far too many developers treat the database as a simple persistence store that they don't want to learn anything about.
Admin
Sorry, I was reading David Heinemeier Hansonn's reasoning on why Ruby on Rails doesn't use Stored Procedures, nor should ever.
Admin
"As soon as Henry could speak, he asked why Tom didn't just use a stored procedure to do the work." -> Erm... why not just use an intelligent query? Stored procedures have their place, but if the usage is simple (and it sounds like this is) they're often not needed.
Admin
Intelligent query? Wassat?
Admin
I gotta say...as a hobby programmer (PHP/SQL), I'm amazed at how much I learn from this site. I admit my ignorance about Stored Procedures -- but then again, I'm not getting paid to maintain a production environment. After reading this article...I'm going to look into that.
Admin
Yeah, there are pleanty of free REAL databases out there: MySQL, Cloudscape, Oracle XE
Admin
I pretty much lost interest after reading the words "the SQL Server". The problem is the definite article "the", instead of "a" or "an". The upgrade should have been tested on a testing or development server before even attempting it on the production server.
It's fairly safe to assume that most software is buggy crap, and important to treat it as such. If you plan your upgrades based on this assumption, the worst that can happen to you is that you're pleasantly surprised from time to time.
Admin
Admin
This is why I hate the current system in place to hire engineers and the like
I knew people in college that shouldn't have made it past their 3rd semester; but because of cheating; group work; and google they managed to graduate and get a decent job.
Then they turn out product like that....
Admin
In defense of MS Access it is really a great little file based database with a relational front end.
And its an excellent database for
Anything beyond that.... good luck :)
That being said there is no excuse for not using an enterprise grade database for multi-user applications and if you are in charge of developing/maintaining this application you had better know something about the database your data is stored in.
The application itself is worthless compared to the data stored within.
Just my two cents.
Admin
Agreed.
Thats why when I interview candidates I try my best to test them on real world scenarios.
Then I put them on a leash when they are hired until they prove themselves. I give them enough rope to get something done... but they still have enough rope to hang themselves.
Admin
The second WTF is hidden in the article in a very clever way:
Admin
Eh?
They had a solution working in Access, and migrated to a broken solution using SQL...
Admin
...and postgres, better than all of them.
Admin
Also, "The fool learns from his mistakes, the wise man learns from the mistakes of others", and all that.
Admin
The problem we all face is to know when we are in that same situation. When we solve problems in very smart ways because we don't know better.
Looking back at my old code I have certainly done really stupid things because I didn't know better. In the oldest code I have laying around I hadn't understood scope of variable so I used label controls (in VB 2) to store data I needed across methods. (I didn't know how to rename them either so they were al Label1, Label2...)
http://idstam.com
Admin
...so I used label controls (in VB 2) to store data I needed across methods. (I didn't know how to rename them either so they were al Label1, Label2...)
At least that way you don't need a watch window.
Admin
No, seriously, I have seen 5 people use an Access database for sales contacts / customer addresses management -- and be happy. Other than such small chores, I would really recommend something more decent.
Admin
MS Access is often the only option, especially in an environment where a) IT won't let you install a SQL server, b) IT won't give you Admin rights to install it yourself or any other program, c) Access comes with the MS Office so at least it's there.
Some of you need to learn what the real world is like. Some of us work in places where we need to do development but aren't "developers" by title. Therefore we use what we have available because IT won't give us anything else. Not all of us get to "just go buy a new server" or "just install x shareware product" or "just upgrade to the latest version." We live in the real world where IT is the enemy.
Admin
IT may not be the enemy and thinking that way may be exactly why you have such limitations.
It is very possible that the solutions you guys "develop" may be very poor hacks that should never, ever see the light of day, let alone a night light. In many cases these very poor solutions become mission critical, then IT has to support these nearly unsupportable "solutions".
There is a very fine line between a small script to make your job easier and something becoming mission critical for the company. If it is the former, by all means create it, but as soon as it becomes a business process, please give it up and let a real software developer handle the design and development of the process. Hopefully he talks to you because you do understand the problem domain, but you are not a developer.
On the other side of the coin, I do know how some IT departments will take so long to get a project approved that you really don't see how you can wait. Really this isn't an issue of them being the enemy, they have many other projects and the company does not see yours as high a priority as others.
Work with them, not against them, and when your script becomes process gladly abandon it to them or even bury it for a proper solution when the time comes.
Admin
My wife is currently in her last year of school and she experiences the very same... I tell her that these people will be competing against her on the jobmarket. So, she might better put them down now, instead of having to deal with these kind of people after the summer.
Reminds me of somebody having a coworker at a pharmaceutical lab screwing up with measuring chemicals. They can't fire him, so they keep him. But he's done higher education, while the job requires mid level education. Go figure. He's more expensive, but more dangerous too.
Also, having a softwarehouse doing stuff straight on your production environment??? What kind of service level agreement do these guys have? And what do they pay for it?
The best people put on the job? WTF? I don't want to know what kind of personel these companies further have...
Admin
And people wonder why I think judging people by a degree is useless. If the guy is incompetant, then he should be fired. None of this "But he has a degree". Screw that, he can't perform, get rid of him.
Admin
Admin
Oracle XE? Maybe, I haven't seen it. But chances are, small companies haven't heard of it, but they do have MS Access in their MS Office package.
MS Access has a valid place in the market. These guys grew out of it and depended on an incompetent developer to help them grow. That's the WTF.
Admin
MySQL has free software on their website that makes it possible to browse your database and export results to Excel, CSV, XML etc.
You can't make forms in it, but I think it is more intuitive than MS Access is. MySQL is multiplatform btw, so people using an other operating system don't get stuck either.
Admin
So wait - they did:
Why even create a fucking view if you are just going to recreate it everytime?
Admin
Unbelievable! Fire them, throw out their system and get someone who knows what they are doing.
How do people with such ignorance get to "develop" software in the first place? Where are they "trained" who employs them, and who gives them work that they clearly are unable to do correctly?
If you went to a brain surgeon and he was hacking you head open with a stanley knife and he said "Scalpels! I've heard of them. There was a section in the medical book I was given when I started here. I should read about those..." Would you let him fix your brain tumour?
There really needs to be a better way of filtering out these so called developers and remove them from the industry so that IT can become a real profession and not some hack festival for wannabes with the programming skill of a small chimpanzee. Although actually I think a small chimpanzee could have done better. Check these guys out (http://www.newtechusa.com/ppi/talent.asp).
Admin
This is a true WTF of this era. "Can't fire him"? Why the fuck not? I have found there are only ever two explanations for this, both poor reasons for such sentiment:
It's the PHB's nephew/neighbour/mistress/all-of-the-above, or discrimination is not allowed just because the employee is black, white, gay, disabled or stupid.
Admin
Symantec Backup Exec for Windows 11d (or previous versions) is a real doozy for doing this. Most patches or hotfixes to the software causes it to shut down the MS SQL Server service on which it holds its configuration database while it runs the install.
This is all fine and dandy when using a standalone MSDE/SQL Express for it, it'll shut down the MSDE service, do its thing and then start the service again no problem, but when you've got it's database sitting on your company's production SQL Server, any time you try to patch Backup Exec your whole SQL Server unexpectedly goes offline. No warnings or notice given, every database on the server becomes unavailable while Backup Exec does it's update thing and then restarts the service. Can catch many an unwary Sys Admin out the first few times it does it.
Quite why the programmers deem this full MS SQL service shutdown necessary has never been explained, can't think of any other software we use that does.
Admin
Sorry to get defensive. It's just that it seems to me that often the only difference between "professional" developers and people like me is that they have better (read, more expensive) tools. Just because I use MS Access, because it is all that is available to me, doesn't mean that I'm not a "real developer".
Admin
Steve,
Have you tried to sneak SQL Server Express Edition past them? Maybe that would get below their radar?
Admin
I don't think so. I have worked in several places already where IT was only considered as a cost factor that seems to be necessary but nobody (at least your boss) knows for what. So they see pay checks are signed but there is no (visible to the boss) increase in productivity or income.
Admin
the language is ambiguous. By "server" the writer of the directions was thinking of the process on the iron, not the iron itself.
A server can be running a web server, ftp server, kitchen sink server, etc etc.
Admin
OMG, I think I know which Warehouse Management program they are referring to. What a piece of junk. It had a 'workaround' for reports that involved creating and deleting views on the fly. Started as an Access application as well.
The damn scroll bars were even broken in the app! Hahah!
Admin
I have seen this maybe 100 times. Views are old and SPs are new (like only 20-something years old)... some developers are old and some are new. That's just the way it goes.