• (cs)

    c:> move C:\Windows C:\Linux c:> reboot

    hmm, it doesn't boot anymore.. indeed I have converted Windows to Linux.

    *disclaimer, this is just a joke, I am happily running Linux at home

  • smit (unregistered) in reply to Markp

    All the more reason to use a robust existing library, most of which provide support for these types of quirks and poorly formed data. Most of these libraries that I know of provide support for arbitrary field and record separators along with support for handling many of the other issues common in messy csv data.

    Can't wait to see what Amit comes up with when he is asked to parse XML. I imagine that the comments would be something along the lines of "Amit was correct in writing (his own feature-poor version of Xpath) from scratch...".

    Bottom line kiddos, hopefully you aren't Tony, but don't be Amit.

  • wtf (unregistered)

    It's not hard to see how a civilian user would expect that changing an extension name would change the file format. It's actually not that unreasonable a metaphor, and UI design has really trained the user to expect this sort of thing. We do make it too easy on users, and therefore they need to know less and less, and they fulfill that need admirably.

    And since we're importing that sort of UI design into programming (visual this, auto-fill that), we're now training "IT professionals" to be as dumb as regular users. Funny story, yeah, but not surprising at all.

  • (cs) in reply to Cliff notes anyone
    Cliff notes anyone:
    I'll bite. What kind of work are they assigned?

    The main thing appears to be managing scheduled jobs. I once tried to get a program to run once a day on a server at a specific time. I was told that this was impossible. Eventually, I convinced them that it was, and the scheduled job runs as expected. But it took hours and hours to convince them of this.

  • Jaybles (unregistered)

    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" facepalm

  • (cs)

    Awesome.

  • DeepThought (unregistered)

    Baidu (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2010/06/29/baidu_software_developers/) is apparently looking for a few good westerners to fill out their ranks. I suggest Tony. He'll have there site running smoothly and gaining market share in no time!

  • wtf (unregistered) in reply to Jaybles
    Jaybles:
    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" *facepalm*

    Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if this feature were added to future reditions of Excel. I'm sure someone in Redmond is reading this.

    Captcha sino - equals zero, no?

  • prionic6 (unregistered)

    A word of warning for everyone who has never been tasked with writing a (general) CSV parser. This is a minefield interspersed with toxic snake filled pitfalls in a room with walls moving inwards. Please excuse my clumsy english. There is almost no specification on what "CSV" means, other than that there are to be commas (or another seperator char). There are myriards of possible ways to specify encoding, escaping, validation special cases and bullshit rules that will bite you in the ass. Using an existing library for this will most certainly hurt you even more, as you encounter files that use stuff that no one has ever thought about. Don't even let me get started about interpreting semantics. You're better off using .xls files and parse them with poi or a similar library.

  • Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot (unregistered) in reply to Jaybles
    Jaybles:
    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" *facepalm*
    Yeah but MS Excel is really good in hiding the difference between XLS and CSV.

    abigo: We're gonna need abigo boat.

  • nikola (unregistered) in reply to Bernie

    TRWTF is you mistaking the help-desk position for a developer position!

    Captcha: incassum

  • iToad (unregistered) in reply to Remy Porter
    Remy Porter:
    Where I work, there's a special team in IT. People too incompetent to do real IT work get put on this team, where they don't have any real responsibility and are doing what I perceive as the simplest tasks possible.

    And they still don't do it terribly well.

    A lot of large bureaucracies have the special department for their incompetents. In the federal government, these departments are often referred to as turkey farms.

  • Zapp Brannigan (unregistered) in reply to Cliff notes anyone
    Cliff notes anyone:
    Remy Porter:
    Where I work, there's a special team in IT. People too incompetent to do real IT work get put on this team, where they don't have any real responsibility and are doing what I perceive as the simplest tasks possible.

    And they still don't do it terribly well.

    I'll bite. What kind of work are they assigned?

    Mid level management, of course.

  • Buddy (unregistered) in reply to Bernie
    Bernie:
    ...So, who am I blaming? Still us. I cannot blame the guy stilling next to me. He is a normal human being, unlike us. Have you ever met a normal (or are you surrounded by people with your skills)? Normals are scary. They send the same document to the same printer 5 times then call you. You delete all but 1 copy of the document in the print queue then turn the printer on. Or they call you every time their email gets mis-sorted. You click the column header to correctly sort their email. And they never eff'n grasp that simple concept that is used so often in UIs....

    People can be that stupid and more. In one place, I did internal tech support. I remember once getting a request, along the lines of "How do I print in landscape?" or something. Anyway, this was the time of MS-Word and Clippy, I opened up Clippy and typed "How do I print in landscape?". After some stupid animation, it gave the correct answer right at the top. Some hours later, another request from the same person, same procedure, I type it into Clippy, and Clippy gives the right answer. Only one of the ten got the a-ha moment: "Hey, you're just typing what I ask into that help thing. I can do that!"

  • Pied Piper (unregistered) in reply to wtf
    wtf:
    Jaybles:
    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" *facepalm*

    Come to think of it, I wouldn't be surprised if this feature were added to future renditions of Excel. I'm sure someone in Redmond is reading this.

    As I recall, Excel expects the .csv extension for any record separator. So, one makes PIPE separated files using the CSV File format menu option, choosing PIPE rather than commas.

  • Tanuki (unregistered)

    Well, Tony kind of has a point.

    Changing a file extension seldom does any good, so it arguably would have been logical to make Windows Explorer, maybe even REN to disallow or shun that. Instead a separate tool for that would have been made available or grave "are you sure" -warnings printed when trying to change the extension. That would have prevented so much morony in the world.

    I also think that the government is doing great job keeping us safe!

  • (cs) in reply to bl@h
    bl@h:
    I call bs, no one is that dumb.

    There's two answers for you:

    1. Oh, there most definitely are.

    2. If you don't know who that person is in your office...

  • Pied Piper (unregistered) in reply to Buddy
    Buddy:
    In one place, I did internal tech support. I remember once getting a request, along the lines of "How do I print in landscape?" or something. Anyway, this was the time of MS-Word and Clippy, I opened up Clippy and typed "How do I print in landscape?". After some stupid animation, it gave the correct answer right at the top. Some hours later, another request from the same person, same procedure, I type it into Clippy, and Clippy gives the right answer. Only one of the ten got the a-ha moment: "Hey, you're just typing what I ask into that help thing. I can do that!"

    Tech Support is often over the phone. Users don't see how you solved the problem.

    Did you show them how to use the Clippy help feature? You need to explain it to them once.

    Then, and only then, can you confirm their the stupid ones.

  • Eponymous Cowherd (unregistered) in reply to Herby
    Herby:
    Where to begin?

    Yes, Paula Bean now has a mentoring job.

    When I was doing work for answering services, we used to call these people "Dumber than cheese".

    Sometimes we wondered if they has passed the "mirror test".

    Oh, and finally, to make a crappy reality show all one needs to do is change the extension from '.mp3' to '.mtv'. Perfectly obvious!

    FTFY

  • Leo (unregistered)

    I was going to say that TRWTF was that the author of the article seemed to think we need to be told what a pipe is.

    But no, the rest of the article was definitely TRWTF.

  • Bert (unregistered) in reply to Herby
    Herby:
    Oh, and finally, to make a music video all one needs to do is change the extension from '.mp3' to '.mtv'. Perfectly obvious!

    The funny thing is, I once had a mp3/"video" player that played .mtv files, and it turned out that the .mtv video format was just an mp3 with a load of JPEGs glued on the end.

    Captcha: nulla - I'va dereferenceda nulla pointa!

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Bernie
    Bernie:
    We are TRWTF. We, the computer geeks of world, have royally screwed computer users by allowing the situation (i.e., changeable file name extensions that don't change the file itself) to exist.
    There really are some weird opinions on file extensions round here. Remember that a file name, extension included, is merely metadata for the file-system. It is not a fundamental part of the file, it is not "embedded" into the file in some way, it's metadata for the file-system and O/S. The notion that some conversion should take place when a file is renamed is just ridiculous, you don't change the contents of a file when you alter its metadata. If you don't like or understand the principle behind changing a file extension via rename then turn it off in Windows (Tools-->Folder Options).

    File extensions are a staggeringly simple concept yet a concept that works beautifully. Windows users have ultimate control over registered file extensions, which gives them ultimate control over what file types get launched by what programs. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

  • pabraham (unregistered)

    "bueraucratic"

    Someone forgot to spell check here.

  • Robyrt (unregistered)

    There are situations where renaming a file extension will cause something to magically work - if the extension was wrong in the first place, changing it to junk will case many programs' format auto-detector to kick in. (Say, your media player confused on which codec to use.)

    That being said, I am the Tony of my office but changing the separator char in a parser someone else wrote is not rocket science. Even assuming you just renamed the extension, one look at the debugger would show your mistake without having to call someone else over.

  • (cs) in reply to Richard Hertz
    Richard Hertz:
    I wanted to say that I been to this site for some time but took a break since I lost the bookmark and forgot all about it until recently my old rss reader seemed to repopulated the links. Anyway, I digress, just wanted to say seeing Paula's name again made me chuckle as it is so true!

    Man that brought back good memories of craptastic code.

    Thanks for sharing guys!

    How about memories of punctuation Nazis? To wit:

    We don't share guys here. Are you sure you're at the right site, "Dick" Hertz?

  • ARMed but harmless (unregistered) in reply to Praer
    Praer:
    At long last, I believe we have found Paula's mentor...
    No, we have found Paula's father. Or brother. Probably both.
  • (cs) in reply to Jaybles
    Jaybles:
    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" *facepalm*

    It's quite valid for some XLS files. A CSV file renamed to XLS opens in Excel like any native Excel file. In those cases, you can indeed revert.

    Of course, CSV->XLS always works and is far more useful. Especially if you need to write out Excel files for some reason... which coincidentally is the only reason I know that this works.

  • ARMed but harmless (unregistered) in reply to ARMed but harmless
    ARMed but harmless:
    No, we have found Paula's son. Or brother. Probably both.
  • (cs) in reply to Leo
    Leo:
    I was going to say that TRWTF was that the author of the article seemed to think we need to be told what a pipe is.

    But no, the rest of the article was definitely TRWTF.

    There's a reason I did that. There's a bonus joke in that, if you're clever. A stupid, immature joke, but a joke nonetheless.

  • (cs) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    File extensions are a staggeringly simple concept yet a concept that works beautifully.

    Oh, patently false! File extensions are a hack. The name of the file (and the extension is clearly part of the name) should have no relationship to the data type of the file. It's nothing more than an ugly variation on Hungarian notation.

    Before the days of metadata, it made sense, but in this modern era, we need a real type-system, not an ugly hack.

  • pixeled (unregistered) in reply to Bernie

    We, the computer geeks of world, have royally screwed computer users by allowing the situation (i.e., changeable file name extensions that don't change the file itself) to exist.

    actually, before Mac OS X, all of the previous Mac OS's had the file type stored in file meta data, NOT in the file name.

    implicitly linking file contents to (partial) file name was deemed ridiculous, up until NeXT was absorbed by Apple.

    file type was file type, and file name was file name. neither had anything to do with each other.

  • Grant (unregistered) in reply to Tanuki
    Tanuki:
    Changing a file extension seldom does any good, so it arguably would have been logical to make Windows Explorer, maybe even REN to disallow or shun that. Instead a separate tool for that would have been made available or grave "are you sure" -warnings printed when trying to change the extension.

    This warning has existed since at least Windows XP. Explorer asks for confirmation whenever you try to change a file's extension, and warns you that "the file might become unusable". People ignore it. "Stupid computer, always questioning everything I do. Of course I want to change this file extension; I know what I'm doing."

    In Vista/7, renaming a file in Explorer only selects the filename, minus the extension. This at least makes accidental extension changes much less likely, but won't slow down a determined idiot (assuming they managed to find the "display extensions for known file types" switch in the first place).

  • Buddy (unregistered) in reply to Pied Piper
    Pied Piper:
    Buddy:
    In one place, I did internal tech support. I remember once getting a request, along the lines of "How do I print in landscape?" or something. Anyway, this was the time of MS-Word and Clippy, I walked over to his desk, opened up Clippy and typed "How do I print in landscape?". After some stupid animation, it gave the correct answer right at the top. Some hours later, another request from the same person, same procedure, I walk over to his desk, type it into Clippy, and Clippy gives the right answer. Only one of the ten got the a-ha moment: "Hey, you're just typing what I ask into that help thing. I can do that!"

    Tech Support is often over the phone. Users don't see how you solved the problem.

    Did you show them how to use the Clippy help feature? You need to explain it to them once.

    Then, and only then, can you confirm they're the stupid ones.

    Oh yeah, sort of skipped that. Corrected above. Confirmed. Fixed typo, too. Getting lots done.

  • Tanuki (unregistered) in reply to Remy Porter

    But that's doesn't even resemble a pipe! It's more like a long boat of 14 oars or a some king of exotic centipede.

  • tm (unregistered)

    TRWTF is that we're still using file extensions instead of storing file type information in the metadata for the file (and curse Apple for reverting to this horrible arcane practice).

  • (cs) in reply to Grant
    Grant:
    Tanuki:
    Changing a file extension seldom does any good, so it arguably would have been logical to make Windows Explorer, maybe even REN to disallow or shun that. Instead a separate tool for that would have been made available or grave "are you sure" -warnings printed when trying to change the extension.

    This warning has existed since at least Windows XP. Explorer asks for confirmation whenever you try to change a file's extension, and warns you that "the file might become unusable". People ignore it. "Stupid computer, always questioning everything I do. Of course I want to change this file extension; I know what I'm doing."

    In Vista/7, renaming a file in Explorer only selects the filename, minus the extension. This at least makes accidental extension changes much less likely, but won't slow down a determined idiot (assuming they managed to find the "display extensions for known file types" switch in the first place).

    But sometime it DOES work.

    As an example take this data and save it in a file, test.html, when you double click on it, it is an html file. Now rename the file to test.xls. Magic. Its a spreadsheet file. Why shouldn't this work for everything?

    <html>
<body>

    
        
    Heading OneHeading Two
    
        
    12
    
        
    34
    

    
</body>
</html>
  • Matt (unregistered)

    Excuse me while I go hang myself.

  • OJ (unregistered) in reply to pixeled
    pixeled:
    actually, before Mac OS X, all of the previous Mac OS's had the file type stored in file meta data, NOT in the file name.

    And that was painful if you tried to work with files from PC machines or Internet. If I recall correctly, files from a non-Mac disk were either recognized as text or considered random blobs of binary data and downloaded files worked only if the server set correct MIME type and MacOS recognized it. Changing the file's type without touching contents wasn't easy, for reasons others have already described.

  • Paul Ron (unregistered) in reply to iToad
    iToad:
    A lot of large bureaucracies have the special department for their incompetents. In the federal government, these departments are often referred to as the federal government.
    FTFY.
  • wtf (unregistered) in reply to tm
    tm:
    TRWTF is that we're still using file extensions instead of storing file type information in the metadata for the file (and curse Apple for reverting to this horrible arcane practice).

    Right - hide information from the user. Promote stupidity, it works wonders.

    (actually, UNIX was using metadata in files, probably before you were out of short pants, but we won't go into the magic numbers system, because you'll probably continue to whine)

  • Meta Mess (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Remember that a file name, extension included, is merely metadata for the file-system...

    File extensions are a staggeringly simple concept yet a concept that works beautifully.

    Hey I have a great idea! Let's put the create date as part of the filename too. And how about the owner. And the permissions. That way you could easily see what files you're allowed to read just by doing a directory listing with your name as a wildcard! It would be soooo cool!

    File extensions were idiotic when IBM put them on their mainframes long before Microsoft was anything but a malevolent conspiracy between a couple college dropouts, and they're still idiotic today. Don't put metadata in the name. Just put the name in the name. Is that concept so hard to wedge through your brain?

  • nobody (unregistered) in reply to Rick
    Rick:
    Grant:
    Tanuki:
    Changing a file extension seldom does any good, so it arguably would have been logical to make Windows Explorer, maybe even REN to disallow or shun that. Instead a separate tool for that would have been made available or grave "are you sure" -warnings printed when trying to change the extension.

    This warning has existed since at least Windows XP. Explorer asks for confirmation whenever you try to change a file's extension, and warns you that "the file might become unusable". People ignore it. "Stupid computer, always questioning everything I do. Of course I want to change this file extension; I know what I'm doing."

    In Vista/7, renaming a file in Explorer only selects the filename, minus the extension. This at least makes accidental extension changes much less likely, but won't slow down a determined idiot (assuming they managed to find the "display extensions for known file types" switch in the first place).

    But sometime it DOES work.

    As an example take this data and save it in a file, test.html, when you double click on it, it is an html file. Now rename the file to test.xls. Magic. Its a spreadsheet file. Why shouldn't this work for everything?

    <html>
<body>

    
        
    Heading OneHeading Two
    
        
    12
    
        
    34
    

    
</body>
</html>

    I hope this was a joke, because otherwise you have rotten gorgonzola where your head should be.

    No. That is an HTML file. Simply because both IE and Excel know how to import it means nothing.

  • (cs)

    When I open an image in GIMP and do a Save As and change the file extension from .jpg to .png, GIMP actually knows to change the file type from JPEG to PNG. I kind of doubt the guy in the article was familiar with GIMP but it's not really that idiotic of a concept.

  • (cs) in reply to Bernie
    Bernie:
    YABut, many - maybe most - of us have our jobs because Microsoft makes software that requires support from people like us. If MS would just make good software, we would be out of jobs and MS's torrent of money would turn into a trickle. (Have you forgot that MS is a business and businesses are in business to make money before all other concerns?)

    If you like to fix broken windows the entire day, that is your problem. There are plenty to things to improve out there, enough to keep TI one of the biggest industries.

  • (cs) in reply to Meta Mess
    Meta Mess:
    Anonymous:
    Remember that a file name, extension included, is merely metadata for the file-system...

    File extensions are a staggeringly simple concept yet a concept that works beautifully.

    Hey I have a great idea! Let's put the create date as part of the filename too. And how about the owner. And the permissions. That way you could easily see what files you're allowed to read just by doing a directory listing with your name as a wildcard! It would be soooo cool!

    File extensions were idiotic when IBM put them on their mainframes long before Microsoft was anything but a malevolent conspiracy between a couple college dropouts, and they're still idiotic today. Don't put metadata in the name. Just put the name in the name. Is that concept so hard to wedge through your brain?

    OK. Now where do I put the path?

  • Gary (unregistered) in reply to Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot
    Sir Robin the Not-Quite-So-Brave-As-Sir-Lancelot:
    Jaybles:
    I can believe that he thought changing the extension to PSV would magically convert the file. I've had a client change an extension from XLS to CSV thinking the same thing. When questioned about it, the response was, "What do you mean it doesn't work that way? I've been doing that for years!" *facepalm*
    Yeah but MS Excel is really good in hiding the difference between XLS and CSV.
    Some programs allow you to specify file format when you save by changing extensions - GIMP comes to mind, there may be others. It's not entirely outside of possibility, though I doubt Tony had this on his mind.
  • Patrick (unregistered)

    You're an idiot.

    ... sorry, reflex response, that was supposed to be directed at Tony up there.

  • Luis Espinal (unregistered)
    Minutes later, Amit's inbox dinged. Tony's email complained, "It's not working. :("

    Sadly, I've worked with "developers" like that.

    I can understand getting a "It's not working. :(" e-mail from a helpless customer (cannot know better) or a tester (whose function is to report a defect, perhaps characterize it, but certainly not to fix it).

    But not from a developer... at least not before doing at least a modest effort to get it to run or to understand what could be making it blow up.

  • (cs) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    This is a video comment, please save with extension ".vhs", print out, and stuff into your tapedeck to see my rant on working with programmers who think that computers are magical boxes that just magically do what you want them to, instead of following instructions.
    Is your name Bob?
  • Some Jerk (unregistered)

    Tony lives up to all of my expectations of a CS graduate

    Captcha: suscipit - It's too hard... suscipit and come back later

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