• V (unregistered)

    Must resist urge...

  • highphilosopher (unregistered)

    must NOT YODEL!!!!!

  • Drew (unregistered)

    Direct problem solving failure.

    This not is not in fact spam, thank you very much

  • John (unregistered)

    Makes me think of the old Price is Right game where the Mountain man went up the price mountain yodeling. But I digress...

  • (cs)

    At least he can boast 100% user satisfaction.

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    Clearly it pays to go the extra mile and write up some usage instructions. Just remember to them dumb them down sufficiently for your target audience.

  • (cs)

    It's probably just as well - imagine who-knows-how-many folks attempting to simultaneously hit that poor little (probably) underpowered web server...

  • Chris Haas (unregistered)

    An Access database for a company with 2,000 users? Get more than 10 concurrent connections and you're hosed. Been there too many times.

  • me_again (unregistered)

    'At least he can boast 100% user satisfaction.'

    for the win +1

    Access db's grrrr, make me wake up in cold sweats and shivers in the middle of the night... seriously

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to Chris Haas

    Err, are you sure? It's not 2000 users constantly updating, it's 2000 entries in a DB over an 8 hour work day. I think the choice of Access for this rudimentary task would be fine.

  • Jeff (unregistered)

    TRWTF is a p.o.c. that becomes production-ready with no additional work.

  • Guriga (unregistered)

    How does asking names, departments and manager names relate to anonymous?

  • Robert (unregistered)

    The only thing I could think while reading this was "Hassan chop!"

  • Addison (unregistered) in reply to Anon
    Anon:
    Err, are you sure? It's not 2000 users constantly updating, it's 2000 entries in a DB over an 8 hour work day. I think the choice of Access for this rudimentary task would be fine.

    Wouldn't most of them do it in the first few days? If it takes 10 minutes each and 1000 people do it in the first 3 days that means 7 connections are open at once, on average. Go much above that average and you've got over 10 connections- more than a crappy server with a crappy access database can probably handle.

  • fjf (unregistered)

    I've snail-mailed my comment to Miranda, so she can type it into this web form.

  • t3knomanser (unregistered)

    I don't think Hassan intended for the Access DB to be used for production- he just wanted to prove it could be done cheaply, and then went up the chain.

  • (cs)

    I think this is the first time that I actually thought "D'OH!" upon reading the punchline.

  • Bob (unregistered)

    "Go away, or I shall replace you with a very small shell script"

  • (cs)

    Nice story. I'm glad they found his application useful. It goes to show that if you take initiative you can make a name for yourself even in a large company.

    I remember writing an application like this back in 2000... using ASP and Windows NT. In many ways I think that ASP is better than ASP.NET. For one thing it offers much more flexibility. A big problem I have with ASP.NET is it does not allow my development team to conform to the standards I created for how to write a web application. This makes it hard for me to educate the junior developers on my team about proper module design.

    The biggest culprit of this is code behind, I essentially have outlawed the use of code behind since it encourages you to write spaghetti code. I say essentially outlawed because if you really need to you can put in a request to the architecture group and it can be approved on a case-by-case basis if you need it.

    Thankfully without using code behind we can submit multiple forms to different aspx pages, and also are able to use <!--#include--> directives again, thus un-crippling ASP.NET back to the functionality that was available in ASP.

    (Don't get me started on viewstate, which is a reason I have outlawed the use of ASP.NET controls, and recommended the use of HTML controls instead. That discussion is for another time though. I could probably write a book on that one, or at least a codeproject article.)

  • (cs) in reply to Addison
    Addison:
    Anon:
    Err, are you sure? It's not 2000 users constantly updating, it's 2000 entries in a DB over an 8 hour work day. I think the choice of Access for this rudimentary task would be fine.

    Wouldn't most of them do it in the first few days? If it takes 10 minutes each and 1000 people do it in the first 3 days that means 7 connections are open at once, on average. Go much above that average and you've got over 10 connections- more than a crappy server with a crappy access database can probably handle.

    It's a web app, the database connections are only open for the duration of processing the submit request. On a side note, "crappy Windows NT 4.0" servers were "shiny new Windows NT 4.0" server back in 1999. We didn't have any problems running 1000 user web apps on them back then. Servers don't get slower over time. Since Hassan is using circa 1999 technologies (classic ASP), he should be fine. Access is still a poor choice, but he is unlikely to be burned by it.

  • t3knomanser (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r

    You should really uncripple your dev team and force them to write C CGI applications.

  • Lars (unregistered) in reply to Addison

    You do realize that the DB connection won't be open until they actually press "Submit"?

    Try 10 seconds for a really crappy app with multiple inserts just to insert data from all the steps, and you would be able to handle 9000 people in 3 days. Anything over 2 secs of open connections for one user would be really bad, so maybe 45k users should be the theoretical limit for 3 days.

    Just portion out the users over a week, and the chance of reaching 10 connections would be very near zero.

    Or, use a real database and dont have to thonk about this stuff. Your call really :)

  • Lars (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r

    TopCod3r:

    Try ASP.NET MVC. You will love it

    CAPTCHA: conventio (over configuration?)

  • (cs) in reply to Lars
    Lars:
    TopCod3r:

    Try ASP.NET MVC. You will love it

    Yeah, I'm evaluating it right now.

    Actually MVC was something that I had a hand in inventing many years ago, from some articles I wrote both internally in my company and also online, although it has been changed quite a bit from my original idea.

  • Marc B (unregistered)

    Why in the world were the managers called sherpas? Sherpas are supposed to assist mountaineers, not bog them down with bi-weekly TPS report requests.

  • (cs) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    Actually MVC was something that I had a hand in inventing many years ago, from some articles I wrote both internally in my company and also online, although it has been changed quite a bit from my original idea.

    I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea.

  • Tim (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    Nice story. I'm glad they found his application useful. It goes to show that if you take initiative you can make a name for yourself even in a large company.

    I remember writing an application like this back in 2000... using ASP and Windows NT. In many ways I think that ASP is better than ASP.NET. For one thing it offers much more flexibility. A big problem I have with ASP.NET is it does not allow my development team to conform to the standards I created for how to write a web application. This makes it hard for me to educate the junior developers on my team about proper module design.

    The biggest culprit of this is code behind, I essentially have outlawed the use of code behind since it encourages you to write spaghetti code. I say essentially outlawed because if you really need to you can put in a request to the architecture group and it can be approved on a case-by-case basis if you need it.

    Thankfully without using code behind we can submit multiple forms to different aspx pages, and also are able to use <!--#include--> directives again, thus un-crippling ASP.NET back to the functionality that was available in ASP.

    (Don't get me started on viewstate, which is a reason I have outlawed the use of ASP.NET controls, and recommended the use of HTML controls instead. That discussion is for another time though. I could probably write a book on that one, or at least a codeproject article.)

    lol that's hilarious. i bet some development managers brought up on asp still actually think like that though

  • Anonymous (unregistered)

    I think people are missing the WTF here.

    Hint: There will never be more than one connection the database.

  • (cs) in reply to TopCod3r

    Personally, I like code-behind because it allows for a distinction between the UI and the Programming, and makes it easier to distinguish between the two.

    I can see, however, how someone transitioning from ASP to ASP.NET would prefer in-line code.

    But, then again, the entire web application thing is full of work-arounds, half-implemented standards, and craziness.

    And, you can write just as much spaghetti code in in-line code as in code-behind.

  • RedIon1992 (unregistered)

    I didn't get it until I went through the comments. I could not see the WTF.

    I do now.

  • Addison (unregistered) in reply to Lars
    Lars:
    You do realize that the DB connection won't be open until they actually press "Submit"?

    Damn it. Now I look like an idiot.

  • Lars (unregistered) in reply to Medezark

    The thing about codebehind is that it should only contain simple view-logic. When you stuff it with a lot of business and persistence logic, you throw flexibility and reusability out the window.

    People have been writing complex apps in ASP.NET using almost only code-behind for years, and the legacy they have left behind is horrible.

  • JP (unregistered)

    Okay... you forgot to include the part about where the end users liked this application so much that, over time, it grew to do everything from accounting to functioning as a replacement of SharePoint... and the businesspeople kept hiring idiot developers who had no clue what a bad idea this is, and then eventually a clueful guy gets stuck with the monstrosity that is the result... and the clueful guy perishes under the weight of the poorly implemented codebase.

    No, I don't have any experience with this... none at all!

  • (cs) in reply to Bob
    Bob:
    "Go away, or I shall replace you with a very small shell script"
    Now I've got to get this on a t-shirt and wear it at work.
  • ounos (unregistered)

    NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOoooooooooooooooooooooooooo

    sorry! that was too cruel, I couldn't help it! I still can't! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    Nice story. I'm glad they found his application useful. It goes to show that if you take initiative you can make a name for yourself even in a large company.
    Despite the failure of TPTB to use the tool as designed, they were still apparently impressed at his initiative and programming prowess, and did use the tool to the company's advantage.

    Unfortunately, it was Miranda who got the bonus, for having completed the data entry in record time.

  • (cs)

    As many people commenting, maybe the "Sherpas" thought about this Access DB the same way and didn't want users to use it. And BTW, in '99 you had apache, php and mysql, so I don't see why would anyone do such a thing... ugh! Anyway, TRWTF is the names used in the project... how stupid is that?

  • (cs)

    It sounds like they already hired Miranda and did not want to get rid of her, or more likely Hassan never bothered to explain who the application was made for.

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to Marc B
    Marc B:
    Why in the world were the managers called sherpas? Sherpas are supposed to assist mountaineers, not bog them down with bi-weekly TPS report requests.
    Because TPTB thought the name sounded "cool".

    "Don't bother us with fact."

  • Anon (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r

    [quote user="TopCod3r" I remember writing an application like this back in 2000... [/quote]

    TRWTF is that TopCod3r best days of trolling seem to be behind him. Or maybe he's just rusty?

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to frits
    frits:
    TopCod3r:
    Actually MVC was something that I had a hand in inventing many years ago, from some articles I wrote both internally in my company and also online, although it has been changed quite a bit from my original idea.
    I'm a PC and Windows 7 was my idea.
    Whose idea was it to market Windows version 6.1 (mine says "6.1.7600") under the name "Windows 7"?
  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to DOA
    DOA:
    Bob:
    "Go away, or I shall replace you with a very small shell script"
    Now I've got to get this on a t-shirt and wear it at work.
    I see no smiley, so just in case...

    http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/frustrations/374d/

    (Sorry, I couldn't put it in as a URL, as that tripped the spam filter.)

  • Anonymous (unregistered) in reply to Guriga
    Guriga:
    How does asking names, departments and manager names relate to anonymous?

    I agree with this. How does providing this much personal information preserve one's anonymity?

  • Jason (unregistered)

    I know it's a tradition to pad these reports by about three paragraphs, but really, most of that stuff had nothing to do with the WTF.. The office-wide upgrade, the new IT guy, etc. -- that was all completely relevent.

  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to Anonymous
    Anonymous:
    Guriga:
    How does asking names, departments and manager names relate to anonymous?
    I agree with this. How does providing this much personal information preserve one's anonymity?
    "Well, how else are we supposed to know if you filled out the 'anonymous' survey to qualify for the free copy?"
  • RandomUser423665 (unregistered) in reply to Chris Haas
    Chris Haas:
    An Access database for a company with 2,000 users? Get more than 10 concurrent connections and you're hosed. Been there too many times.
    Could be mistaken, or it might be a config option, but I seem to recall classic ASP only handles one request at a time (single-threaded). I'm talking about the ASP engine, not IIS itself. So, if you get a request hung up on a DB query (Access, MSSQL, or otherwise) for a few seconds, all subsequent requests (that need ASP) connect to the server but get queued up, waiting for the script engine to get around to them.

    If true, then don't worry about a 10-user DB limit that can't be reached due to the one-request-in-process limit. Instead, worry about request timeouts if you take too long handling the data, and old browsers that might blank out all that stuff you entered when you back up from the error page.

  • (cs) in reply to ounos
    DailyWTF:
    ...the new Head of IT had come from an organization where kitschy meant progressive...
    Does anyone have the slightest idea WTF this is supposed to mean?
  • Ken B (unregistered) in reply to Jason
    Jason:
    I know it's a tradition to pad these reports by about three paragraphs, but really, most of that stuff had nothing to do with the WTF.. The office-wide upgrade, the new IT guy, etc. -- that was alll completely irrelevent.
    So is 99% of Harry Potter. It could have been condensed to:

    "My name is Harry Potter. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

    The rest is just there to make the story more interesting.

    :-)

  • Bryan The K (unregistered) in reply to TopCod3r
    TopCod3r:
    Nice story. I'm glad they found his application useful. It goes to show that if you take initiative you can make a name for yourself even in a large company.

    No matter how bad of a day I'm having, your satire makes me laugh out loud. Thanks

    CAPTCHA: quis - I have no idea what goes here

  • EngleBart (unregistered) in reply to belgariontheking
    belgariontheking:
    I think this is the first time that I actually thought "D'OH!" upon reading the punchline.
    o I felt my stomach drop (like a roller coaster) when I hit the punch line!

    o For something this simple, skip the Access DB and append a line to a comma delimited file. Ready made spreadsheet!

    o Memory Lane: I used to run IIS 2.0 on Windows NT Server 4.0 with only 12MB of RAM. I did not have a CD drive nor enough HD space for the database I needed, so I mapped a network drive to another computers CD drive. It was a work of art. It took a few minutes to boot up, but once it stabilized it had acceptable performance. Of course, this was a dev server and we were thankful to have it at all. The production server was state of the art.

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