• (cs) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Hey, if you start down the path of applying artificial maximums (e.g., interpreting Roman numerals only up to "IV"), pretty soon you've got a Y2K-like problem on your hands.

    Gotta think of the future. Otherwise you're just like those programmers in the '70's thinking two digits are enough for a year.

    Nibbles, I tell you. Nibbles.

    There, that should be good for the next 7,992 years or so ...

  • Ubersoldat (unregistered) in reply to Coditor
    Coditor:
    Seriously: The whole idea of an automated system to call you is rediculous. It may be fine for someone like "Suzanne", but what about foreign names? I'd like to hear it attempt to say my last name which is "Juffermans"...

    Seriously: I'd add an "pronunciation" field to the database which is filled by whoever adds new customers to the system, so you can replace "Pope John Paul IV" with "Pope John Paul the fourth" etc.

    Not so seriously: I don't think the pope gets his books at the Wake County Public Library.

    Yeap, now that he's dead I find it not so probable

  • (cs) in reply to Glo
    Glo:
    Oye!

    A little BNF grammar construction here could have fixed this. A reasonable state machine for parsing the grammar would not have made this mistake.

    first [middle] last [generation]

    That is NOT rocket science folks.

    Already debunked as being "just that easy". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_XVI_Gustaf_of_Sweden
  • Ether (unregistered)

    I once knew a mathematician, named John Smith V, who was receiving pressure shortly before his firstborn appeared to name the baby John Smith VI. It was a girl, happy day! So he named her Vielle.

    (Personally I would have picked a more common Vi* name, like Victoria, but to each his own.)

  • (cs) in reply to Super Mike
    Super Mike:
    I guess, never hire a VB programmer in Raleigh. (The library uses VB.)

    Which is, of course, the fifth B.

  • tim (unregistered)

    1. bad regex: don't use string.replace() use a regex that pays attention to WHERE in the string the Roman Numeral appears.

    2. bad data model: don't store names as a single long string, create separate fields for first, last, middle and suffix.

  • masukomi (unregistered) in reply to j6cubic

    Does this mean that Suzanne the 1000th's existence disproves "Intelligent" Design?

  • rbonvall (unregistered) in reply to Critter
    Critter:
    It will also mangle some actual names. Consider if someone stateside had a Korean name with "il" in the middle of it. Yep, the former leader of North Korea is Kim the 49th Soong.

    49 is XLIX, not IL.

  • Dan (unregistered) in reply to wgh

    I'm sure he won't care when the Library calls with, "Pope Benedict Scivi, your Da Vinci Code is ready for you to pick up."

  • (cs) in reply to tim
    tim:
    2. bad data model: don't store names as a single long string, create separate fields for first, last, middle and suffix.
    Why do people keep posting without reading?

    There are many people whose names do not fit this mold. Even within the United States! People do immigrate here, you know. Spaniards and Mexicans have two surnames. Asians often have four or five portions to their name.

    You want a fix? As mentioned before: Pronounciation Field. This would be great for the people with fun names that humans can't pronounce from the spelling, let alone TTS. You would have to train operators on the phonetic alphabet (and give them a help file to look it up), but I think it would be much more satisfying to hear your actual name rather than a machine massacring it.

  • Mike (unregistered) in reply to jtl
    jtl:
    A great example of an rare requirement overwriting a more common requirement because of bad coding.

    Our old voicemail system had a similar "feature." One of my coworker's had a "Saint" name as in John St. Doe (John "Saint" Doe). Whenever you'd get someone's answering service on this system, if they hadn't recorded their own name, the system would attempt to read it out. It would also read it out regardless of overridden names if you went through the talking phone book. Pretty sweet system actually, except for a few names that became unitelligible garbage, or in the special case of my friend just got weird.

    The following exchange was commonplace.

    Dial in to phone book... Service: Who would you like to speak to? Me: John St. Doe Service: Do you mean: John Street Doe? Me: ... Yes.

  • Franz Kafka (unregistered) in reply to gabba
    gabba:
    Hey, if you start down the path of applying artificial maximums (e.g., interpreting Roman numerals only up to "IV"), pretty soon you've got a Y2K-like problem on your hands.

    Gotta think of the future. Otherwise you're just like those programmers in the '70's thinking two digits are enough for a year.

    They did that because space was expensive. Blame management for waiting until 1998 to upgrade.

  • John the 4294967295th Smith (unregistered)

    So what does it say for "Suzanne M. Malone III"?

  • (cs) in reply to Franz Kafka
    Franz Kafka:
    gabba:
    Hey, if you start down the path of applying artificial maximums (e.g., interpreting Roman numerals only up to "IV"), pretty soon you've got a Y2K-like problem on your hands.

    Gotta think of the future. Otherwise you're just like those programmers in the '70's thinking two digits are enough for a year.

    They did that because space was expensive. Blame management for waiting until 1998 to upgrade.

    That's funny, whenever I allocate 5 digits for the year in a string field, people just don't get that I'm planning ahead for the 9999-10000 rollover issue.

  • (cs)

    My cell phone (LG VX8300) has TTS and voice recognition so that I can speak various commands to it. For some reason it interchanges the letter "G" with the phoneme "SM". So, for example, if I tell it "call Bill Gant" it replies "Did you mean 'call Bill Smant'?"

    And if I say "Yes", it calls Bill Gant.

    *names changed to protect the guilty

  • hobart (unregistered) in reply to jtl
    jtl:
    A great example of an rare requirement overwriting a more common requirement because of bad coding.
    Why bad coding rather than bad requirements specification or bad design?
  • Doug (unregistered) in reply to wgh
    But "fixing" this will cause problems for Pope Benedict XVI. So now I'm just lost.

    Only using this on roman numerals found at the end of a name (not the middle) would seem to solve for every common case.

    Are there a lot of people out there named John IV Smith rather than John Smith IV?

  • R Hayes (unregistered)

    My middle initial is F. I want to know when my phone is going to ring with a message for "the 15th Hayes."

  • Undertoad (unregistered) in reply to wgh

    Then we'll get a daily WTF about automation calling "Benedict Chevy".

  • Vaccano (unregistered)

    While it may have been buggy (and funny) it voice system did what it was supposed to do (notify a library user of the changed status of a book).

  • (cs) in reply to The Vicar
    The Vicar:
    Actually, according to the official rules of nomenclature (as opposed to the ones which are often, but not always, applied in the U.S.), the Malones must also be nobility, or else there are 999 other Suzanne Malones still living. For non-nobility (or other equivalents, such as the Pope), the official rule is that once you die, you are removed from the numbering system. (So, for example, if John Smith's son is named John Smith II and his grandson is John Smith III, then when John Smith dies his son loses the "II" and his grandson becomes "II".) You can look it up in (for example) Miss Manners.

    Since when could Miss Manners tell me to change my name? I don't have a Roman Numeral on my name, but if I did I wouldn't be ditching it just because "the first" had passed away. I want my own name, even if it's only distinguished from that of earlier generations by a number suffix.

  • MG (unregistered)

    No one has pointed out that the First, Second, Third, etc convention does not typically follow women... If Jane Doe marries John Smith and becomes Jane Smith, then has a little baby Jane Smith II, when Jane Smith II gets marries to Jack Jones, she becomes Jane Jones - thus no little Jane Smith III.

    Now granted a woman doesn't always take a man's name, AND she could marry a man with the same last name, but in all likelihood this isn't going to carry on for very long...

  • Tehdew (unregistered)

    I think we can all agree that the REAL WTF is using text-to-speech over the phone. My library uses email, and works like a charm. It even manages to spell my name right.

  • (cs) in reply to SuperousOxide
    SuperousOxide:
    The Vicar:
    Actually, according to the official rules of nomenclature (as opposed to the ones which are often, but not always, applied in the U.S.), the Malones must also be nobility, or else there are 999 other Suzanne Malones still living. For non-nobility (or other equivalents, such as the Pope), the official rule is that once you die, you are removed from the numbering system. (So, for example, if John Smith's son is named John Smith II and his grandson is John Smith III, then when John Smith dies his son loses the "II" and his grandson becomes "II".) You can look it up in (for example) Miss Manners.

    Since when could Miss Manners tell me to change my name? I don't have a Roman Numeral on my name, but if I did I wouldn't be ditching it just because "the first" had passed away. I want my own name, even if it's only distinguished from that of earlier generations by a number suffix.

    Plus you'd have to go correct your name everywhere... Sounds pointless to me. Assuming the "III" were part of your legal name, which in most cases it's not.

  • yan (unregistered)

    TRWTF is the location of the .mp3 file.

    http://thedailywtf.com/images/200801/suzanne1000.mp3

    I've never seen, or even heard of, an .mp3 image.

  • dkf (unregistered) in reply to yan
    yan:
    I've never seen, or even heard of, an .mp3 image.
    Easy. Just take a digital picture of a CD lying (face down) on a wooden table...
  • (cs) in reply to rbonvall
    rbonvall:
    Critter:
    It will also mangle some actual names. Consider if someone stateside had a Korean name with "il" in the middle of it. Yep, the former leader of North Korea is Kim the 49th Soong.

    49 is XLIX, not IL.

    XLIX Wouldn't that be pronounced, "ExLax"?

  • Ted (unregistered)

    Hey cool I live in Wake County. My middle name starts with an A though so I've never had that problem, interesting I'll ask some of my friends about this.

  • 2fuf (unregistered)

    Using the dot the indicate a numeral is typical of the German langage. The fact that this text-to-speech software interprets it this way might indicate that the software used has German or European origin.

  • (cs)

    No one should use Roman numbers in their names. That's TRWTF.

  • (cs)

    Reminds me of another example of messed up text-to-speech. Go to a Windows XP computer and open the speech control panel and enter 10 20 30 40... and so on until you get to 200. It will read it as "ten, twenty, thirty,... one hundred sixty, one hundred seventy, area code one eight zero, one nine zero, two zero zero."

  • steamed about roman numerals (unregistered) in reply to The Vicar

    --snip--

    "the official rule is that once you die, you are removed from the numbering system. (So, for example, if John Smith's son is named John Smith II and his grandson is John Smith III, then when John Smith dies his son loses the "II" and his grandson becomes "II".) You can look it up in (for example) Miss Manners."

    --snip--

    Right. I don't know what Miss Manners thinks the rules are or should be. I don't really care. The fact of the matter is that a lot of people in the US have Sr/Jr/II/III/IV/V/etc as a suffix in their legal name (I do, for example, and I like it that way). People with suffixes in their legal names don't just bump the suffix over one because someone croaked. Governmental agencies tend to frown on just altering your name for convenience without going through official paperwork.

    Most of the folks that I know with suffixes in the family tend to use different nicknames for the members with the same name (e.g., Bill/Will/William (knew a Phil who was William once), Rog/Roger, Jason/Jay, etc).

    I submit that you, sir, don't have a roman numeral suffix, are not well acquainted with anyone who does, and don't let logic govern your thought processes.

  • Michael Spencer (unregistered)

    I used to live in Apex in Wake County until a year ago... Used the library but never heard of this problem.

    TTS just pisses me off in general, unless of course it's Microsoft Sam saying "your gay!!", because that just rocks.

  • Björn (unregistered) in reply to wgh

    Easy: if(name contains "pope"){

    } else {

    }

  • TLoC (unregistered) in reply to jtl
    jtl:
    A great example of an rare requirement overwriting a more common requirement because of bad coding.

    That's bad DESIGN. The coding works, they just designed it poorly.

  • Paul (unregistered) in reply to Mil
    Mil:
    I'd hate to hear my name...

    MIL C DILVIC

    To be valid Roman numerals, I think you are "1001 50 100 501 56 100"

  • james (unregistered)

    I would assume that the bug is in the text-to-speach software, which could reasonably be expected to correctly interpret roman numerals. I would also assume that the text-to-speach engine is not written specifically for saying peoples names and so would not specifically prohibit this "feature" in this case.

    That said, it is still pretty funny.

  • Tei (unregistered)

    the real wtf is calling a soon with your name. "John" and "john junior". pick another different name, for god's sake!!11

  • Smash (unregistered)
    Glo:
    Oye!

    A little BNF grammar construction here could have fixed this. A reasonable state machine for parsing the grammar would not have made this mistake.

    first [middle] last [generation]

    That is NOT rocket science folks.

    You could say it's not endocrinology, after all...

    Björn:
    Easy: if(name contains "pope"){

    } else {

    }

    You know your implementation would misinterpret the names of Alexander Pope's descendants, don't you? Besides, not everyone who has a roman-numbered name live in the Vatican.

    Tei:
    the real wtf is calling a soon with your name. "John" and "john junior". pick another different name, for god's sake!!11

    I second that

  • jerry (unregistered)

    As for the text-to-voice software not using the context to determine what an abbreviation means, I recently signed up for Verizon FIOS and keep getting automated calls telling me this message is for <my name> residing at "<nn> Fawn Doctor" (I live on Fawn Dr. - usually known as Fawn Drive)

  • default (unregistered)

    Numerals don't have the dots. Middle names otherwise.

  • Mr Cranky (unregistered) in reply to D2oris
    D2oris:
    Note that the period behind a number often means "-th" or "-rd". (Don't know the English name for it)

    "20. May", "5. Customer"

    Only to Germans.

  • liquidsnk (unregistered) in reply to Monomelodies
    Monomelodies:
    Handling these ordinals is somewhat over the top. But really, these problems could have been prevented by not giving users a generic "name" field but instead asking for first name and last name and optinal initials and suffix (and maybe title too, to cater for tossers who insist on being called "professor").

    I want to be called Sith Lord!.

  • (cs) in reply to SuperousOxide
    SuperousOxide:

    Since when could Miss Manners tell me to change my name?

    Unless it actually has a roman numeral on your birth certificate, or you have had your name changed, then your name is "John Smith", not "John Smith the Fourth" (or whatever).

    SuperousOxide:
    I want my own name, even if it's only distinguished from that of earlier generations by a number suffix.

    If you really want a unique name, why do you want a name that needs a roman numeral to distinguish between all the people who have it?

    steamed about roman numerals:
    The fact of the matter is that a lot of people in the US have Sr/Jr/II/III/IV/V/etc as a suffix in their legal name (I do, for example, and I like it that way).

    I presume you mean that you actually have the suffix on your birth certificate (or have had a name change), in which case, the suffix makes you the actual fourth as much as, say, putting "His Holiness Pope John Smith" on your birth certificate would have made you the leader of the Catholic church; i.e. not at all. In fact, it would actually remove you from the running entirely, because the odds are that nobody else in your family would have that suffix as part of their name. You would technically be "John Smith IV the First".

    steamed about roman numerals:
    I submit that you, sir, don't have a roman numeral suffix, are not well acquainted with anyone who does, and don't let logic govern your thought processes.

    I'm acquainted with a Junior and two IIs. All three are godawful jerks. (It's possible that I know others, of course, but not being godawful jerks they don't use the suffix.)

    As for myself, by my reckoning I have no suffix. By your reckoning I'm at least a "III", and probably more because I have never paid attention to my ancestry more than four generations back and my first name is a common one. Hey, maybe I'm a VII or something, that would be neat.

    And if we're going to be logical, then an expert in correct forms of address, having gone to the trouble of learning correct forms of address, would have the right answer to this question, and not some random anonymous person on a message board. After all, if you want information on a subject, you go to an informed source -- there are lots of anonymous people out there who will tell you to use <font> tags in HTML 4, for example, even though this is not correct. Miss Manners (Judith Martin) is a recognized authority on correct forms of address. You're a random anonymous person on a message board. Hmmmm.

  • RussAu (unregistered)

    You can see this in action on Windows XP.

    Control Panel -> Speech -> Text-to-Speech Tab

    Replace "You have selected .. as the computer's default voice." with "Suzanne M.".

    Click "Preview Voice"

  • default (unregistered) in reply to D2oris
    D2oris:
    Note that the period behind a number often means "-th" or "-rd". (Don't know the English name for it)
    It's ordinal numbers, which are used to sequenate the set, as opposed to cardinal numbers which basically denote quantity.
    D2oris:
    "20. May", "5. Customer"
    For Arabic numerals, Roman don't require dots.

    Rules, rules. Learn them, for your own sake.

  • (cs) in reply to Erzengel
    Erzengel:
    You want a fix? As mentioned before: Pronounciation Field. This would be great for the people with fun names that humans can't pronounce from the spelling, let alone TTS. You would have to train operators on the phonetic alphabet (and give them a help file to look it up), but I think it would be much more satisfying to hear your actual name rather than a machine massacring it.
    Exactly.

    Even better, just store a recording of an actual human saying it. If it ends up wrong, you can just tell the person responsible how it is supposed to sound; and as a bonus you get rid of the potential "but the system won't let us type it in that way" type errors too.

  • Tom Woolf (unregistered)

    I live in Wake county, too, and frequently get books from the library, and the related calls. However, I have yet to receive a message for Tom the 500th Woolf (my middle initial is D, and I do use it on my library card).

    I think this may be one big coincidence, and that it remains an odd error and not yet and explainable wtf...

  • (cs) in reply to Monkios
    Monkios:
    That's odd, Microsoft Sam does it right ...

    For anyone who was curious, OS X's synthesizer (good ol' Macintalk...) also handles it correctly. Go figure.

  • (cs) in reply to brian sosmaweif
    brian sosmaweif:
    if each Suzanne has 10 daughters called Suzanne, it only needs three generations to be alive, which is perfectly plausible.

    Three generations gets you 111 Suzanne's: 889 short. You need the better part of four generations.

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