The Daily WTF: Curious Perversions in Information Technology

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

I'm not sure which is bigger WTF, the need for timing. Or the bureaucracy...

Missing sync for frist

alo · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Frist, if Hanzo had a short distance radio sync device, why didn't he make a more powerfull campus wide device?

Sceond, why not just say: "please show me the order which specified radio clocks"

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Why they just didn't get clocks with DCF77? Shouldn't that be obvious solution in Germany?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.

Second: It's clear Berlin would show them the order they made. It doesn't matter what he asked for, it would only matter what they ordered. This is a bureaucracy after-all.

Finally, synchronizing clocks is hard. I should know.

no laughing matter · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Einstein:
First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.
Second: It's clear Berlin would show them the order they made. It doesn't matter what he asked for, it would only matter what they ordered. This is a bureaucracy after-all.

Finally, synchronizing clocks is hard. I should know.

Third, this is another Hanzo story, where everything is wrong: Dresden is a city in Saxony, not Hesse.

Berlin is a separate state that has no say in what happens in universities in Saxony or Hesse.

The german name is Hans, not Hanz, but this may be failed anonymisation.

And finally. Where is the WTF? We are promised "Curious Perversions in Information Technology", but what we get is a lame story about bureaucratic / budget procedures?

Dogsworth · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Central IT replied within the hour. Network synchronization is too expensive, they said. Would radio-synchronized clocks be acceptable?

This makes no sense at all. I can't believe that anybody would say this ever.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Instead of buying a special kind of clock that synchronises to some central on-site master clock by RF - and this is the first time I've heard of such a thing - why didn't they get ordinary RF clocks that synchronise to the atomic clock broadcast directly?

That's what I assumed they were at first.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_clock

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Einstein:
First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.

No clue. DCF77 is a nation wide (and bigger) radio signal broadcasted by an official institution. All you need is clock with receiver of the DCF77 signal. Plenty of them... all synchronised with the precision of the speed of radio-wave to the one main master clock, in Mainflingen.

At night the range is 2000km, even Madrid and Alger can get the synchronisation: resync every night should avoid any accumulation of any jitter.

When an european clock is "radio-piloted", it is actually using that signal.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Rnd(:
Why they just didn't get clocks with DCF77? Shouldn't that be obvious solution in Germany?

Exactly. I work at a German university, and almost all clocks are DCF77. I wouldn't even believe something like network synchronized clocks would have a use case.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

This story must be fake:

In Germany, we have an atomic clock to which all radio synchronized clocks synchronize with. There's be no need to synchronize to a "master clock" on campus
They can't have a 4 minute interval between lectures. Every university I know of in Germany sticks to the "academic quarter", meaning that while every lecture is scheduled from the hour to the hour, but effectively starts at quarter past and ends at quarter to. That's why most lectures in Germany last at least 2 hours (so 1 1/2 in effect).
No German is called "Hanz".

Captcha: "damnum"

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

At the tone, the time will be 07:00:02 at the tone, the time will be....

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Balu:
In Germany, we have an atomic clock all radio synchronized clocks synchronize with. There'd be no need to synchronize to a "master clock" on campus

FTFM

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Until reading the comments I was sure they meant that – what else? There's sync via cellphone nets, GSM etc. but that wouldn't be 'radio'.

xorsyst · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Le Forgeron:
Einstein:
First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.

No clue. DCF77 is a nation wide (and bigger) radio signal broadcasted by an official institution. All you need is clock with receiver of the DCF77 signal. Plenty of them... all synchronised with the precision of the speed of radio-wave to the one main master clock, in Mainflingen.

At night the range is 2000km, even Madrid and Alger can get the synchronisation: resync every night should avoid any accumulation of any jitter.

When an european clock is "radio-piloted", it is actually using that signal.

We have some radio clocks here in Northern England, and even just being 2 walls away from a window is enough for them to fail to get a signal, and end up being all over the place.

When I read the story, I assumed this was what was meant, and that signal issues were a real problem at that campus, so they wanted network-sync clocks instead. I'm then just puzzled by the solution.

ratchet freak · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

no laughing matter:
Einstein:
First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.
Second: It's clear Berlin would show them the order they made. It doesn't matter what he asked for, it would only matter what they ordered. This is a bureaucracy after-all.

Finally, synchronizing clocks is hard. I should know.
Third, this is another Hanzo story, where everything is wrong: Dresden is a city in Saxony, not Hesse.

Berlin is a separate state that has no say in what happens in universities in Saxony or Hesse.

The german name is Hans, not Hanz, but this may be failed anonymisation.

And finally. Where is the WTF? We are promised "Curious Perversions in Information Technology", but what we get is a lame story about bureaucratic / budget procedures?

location & uni is also anonymized, it's just that the anonymized doesn't know anything useful for proper anonymization

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Balu:
2) They can't have a 4 minute interval between lectures. Every university I know of in Germany sticks to the "academic quarter", meaning that while every lecture is scheduled from the hour to the hour, but effectively starts at quarter past and ends at quarter to. That's why most lectures in Germany last at least 2 hours (so 1 1/2 in effect).

Actually, it's twenty minutes between lectures of 90 minutes each (at the Dresden University of Technology): 07:30-09:00, 09:20-10:50, and so forth until 20:00

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Tough crowd you've got at the moment, guys ...

TRWTF is: why doesn't someone with a tolerably-accurate watch go round every so often and tweak the hands with the manual adjuster on the back? Gollum would be none the wiser.

Ah - don't tell me: because the clocks in question don't have the ability to adjust them manually. If that is the case: big WTF.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

ratchet freak:
location & uni is also anonymized, it's just that the anonymized doesn't know anything useful for proper anonymization

Then they could use a generic city name that's not an actual city, like they use "Initrode" as a generic company.

I propose AUTE - A University that Teaches Everything.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

maybe the clocks were wifi synchronised.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

ratchet freak:
no laughing matter:
Einstein:
First: Probably because of the German equivalent of the FCC. You can't just go broadcasting signals at any strength you want.
Second: It's clear Berlin would show them the order they made. It doesn't matter what he asked for, it would only matter what they ordered. This is a bureaucracy after-all.

Finally, synchronizing clocks is hard. I should know.
Third, this is another Hanzo story, where everything is wrong: Dresden is a city in Saxony, not Hesse.

Berlin is a separate state that has no say in what happens in universities in Saxony or Hesse.

The german name is Hans, not Hanz, but this may be failed anonymisation.

And finally. Where is the WTF? We are promised "Curious Perversions in Information Technology", but what we get is a lame story about bureaucratic / budget procedures?
location & uni is also anonymized, it's just that the anonymized doesn't know anything useful for proper anonymization

It really doesn't matter where the silly place is - all you need to know is: it's somewhere in Germany. But there is one important point which may cause confusion, and that is: are we talking East or West Germany? Till the approx. 1990s the two were completely different states, working on completely different political principles.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Not sure if anyone else stated that already. Took me some time after the last story.

I'd bet some (if it's in Germany at all) it's about Heinrich Heine U in Düsseldorf – Dresden is even kinda mirrored geographically. That way it's Hermann Hesse U, nothing about the state.

Not to say that makes more sense with a central institution in another city.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

If you do not like this site then stop reading it. And stop the shitty complaining. Add something better yourself!

This is not the Daily Rant Site

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

He probably used something like that: http://endorphino.de/projects/electronics/timemanipulator/index.html a self built DCF77 sender.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Yup -- DCF77 would be the answer. Sadly, WWVB does not have good coverage in the Northeast US, so our facility has different times in different conference rooms.

I have never heard of "radio-synced" clocks that are synced to a master clock, but perhaps there is something available at 915MHz which wouldn't require a license.

Perhaps I should start a company to build WiFi NTP clocks? I guess the challenge would be getting the cost down to something reasonable...

Captcha: tristique...sadly, there's no good, cheap and fast solution to Hanzo's problem.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

I don't know what everybody is complaining about - these Hanzo stories are pretty good. YMMV I guess...

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Most infuriating, the primary DCF77 transmitter is in Mainflingen, which is in Hesse.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

The Hanzo stories get lamer by the week.

Since we know at least since last Week that TDWTF is taking artistic liberty with submitted stories (http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Visionary-Leak.aspx#417459), could you perhaps for the future take the artistic liberty to at least get your facts right?

Radio-controlled clocks do not work indoors? ROTFL!
5 mins between lessons on a "widespread campus"??? Does anybody know of any college at all with 5 minute breakes between lessons?
Since when do radio-controlled clocks synchronize against a master clock you can carry around and use as a source of synchronization?

And that's just the new wtfs of the story, not counting the ones already present in the last two installments and which have dutifully been noted by previous posters.

xorsyst · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

faoileag:
* Radio-controlled clocks do not work indoors? ROTFL!

Trust me, this is a real issue that I've seen this quite a few times.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

ratchet freak · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Peter:
Yup -- DCF77 would be the answer. Sadly, WWVB does not have good coverage in the Northeast US, so our facility has different times in different conference rooms.
I have never heard of "radio-synced" clocks that are synced to a master clock, but perhaps there is something available at 915MHz which wouldn't require a license.

Perhaps I should start a company to build WiFi NTP clocks? I guess the challenge would be getting the cost down to something reasonable...

Captcha: tristique...sadly, there's no good, cheap and fast solution to Hanzo's problem.

cut costs by using bluetooth, then sync by accessing the campus wifi through the students' smartphones

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Balu:
3) No German is called "Hanz".

So where did you find a list of every single German? Or do you just know them all?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

ratchet freak:
Peter:
Yup -- DCF77 would be the answer. Sadly, WWVB does not have good coverage in the Northeast US, so our facility has different times in different conference rooms.
I have never heard of "radio-synced" clocks that are synced to a master clock, but perhaps there is something available at 915MHz which wouldn't require a license.

Perhaps I should start a company to build WiFi NTP clocks? I guess the challenge would be getting the cost down to something reasonable...

Captcha: tristique...sadly, there's no good, cheap and fast solution to Hanzo's problem.
cut costs by using bluetooth, then sync by accessing the campus wifi through the students' smartphones

You know when Jesus was up on the cross, yeah? Why didn't he just use the voice-activated headset on his Samsung Galaxy to call the lcoal contingent of the UN peacekeeping forces? Honestly, how silly can you get?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Wrexham:
Balu:
3) No German is called "Hanz".
So where did you find a list of every single German? Or do you just know them all?

OK, you want me to be precise?

I don't know any German named Hanz. I don't know any German who'd name their kid Hanz. (I don't know any German who'd name their kid Hans either). Hanz would be the most uncommon spelling you could come up with and most Germany would probably think you misspelled.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Anonymous:
3 Hanzon stories - 3 strikes. I'm done with this site. I'll find my amusing IT stories elsewhere I think.

Was it this last one that gave you that syncing feeling?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

She was a short, skinny, shrivelled old woman, like Gollum in a navy blue business suit

I'm guessing the readership of this site wouldn't have got a Rosa Klebb reference, and they should get off my lawn.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Hasse:
If you do not like this site then stop reading it. And stop the shitty complaining. Add something better yourself!
This is not the Daily Rant Site

Actually, it kind of is that kind of site.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Balu:
Wrexham:
Balu:
3) No German is called "Hanz".
So where did you find a list of every single German? Or do you just know them all?

OK, you want me to be precise?

I don't know any German named Hanz. I don't know any German who'd name their kid Hanz. (I don't know any German who'd name their kid Hans either). Hanz would be the most uncommon spelling you could come up with and most Germany would probably think you misspelled.

I don't know any Germans named Klaus or Wolfgang. Does that make them non-German names?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

I once worked at a place where management wanted all of the clocks across the (QNX) network to be synchronized exactly. The programmers there before I joined the company attempted to implement this by using an algorithm on the network that would query each computer for its time setting and assume that the average of all the times was the correct time and then set all the computers to that average time.

The computers were really outdated and as a result the batteries (which could not be replaced since the hardware they fit was no longer even sold) would run so slow that some computers had a 4 minute time drift per day. So the algorithm resulted in the time of the entire network changing anywhere from 2 minutes to 35 minutes per day. Everyday it was like I was time-traveling.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Don:
I don't know any Germans named Klaus or Wolfgang. Does that make them non-German names?

You aren't into politics. The current german minister of finance's name is Wolfgang Schäuble...

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

I initially thought that the WTF was why they wanted clocks that synced to each other rather than to the atomic clock's radio signal. But as I recall, those used to be quite expensive, so I assume that networked clocks were a cheaper alternative.

That said, moving the master clock from location to location is actually not a bad hack to solve this problem. I wouldn't think it needed to visit each and every classroom, however - surely they could rotate it through a series of locations so that every clock on campus would be ensured to ping it once every couple weeks? (Or, for that matter, discreetly order a new master clock every few months until you have enough to cover the entire campus.)

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Nagesh:
Don:
I don't know any Germans named Klaus or Wolfgang. Does that make them non-German names?
You aren't into politics. The current german minister of finance's name is Wolfgang Schäuble...

There's TRWTF, right there. Wolves run in packs, not gangs.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

MrBester:
She was a short, skinny, shrivelled old woman, like Gollum in a navy blue business suit
I'm guessing the readership of this site wouldn't have got a Rosa Klebb reference

YMMD :-))

As soon as I read that, I had this vision of her standing in next to Hanzo who is complaining about that clocks directive of hers... and she is clicking her heels together... and the blade springs forth...

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

anonymous:
I initially thought that the WTF was why they wanted clocks that synced to each other rather than to the atomic clock's radio signal. But as I recall, those used to be quite expensive, so I assume that networked clocks were a cheaper alternative.
That said, moving the master clock from location to location is actually not a bad hack to solve this problem. I wouldn't think it needed to visit each and every classroom, however - surely they could rotate it through a series of locations so that every clock on campus would be ensured to ping it once every couple weeks? (Or, for that matter, discreetly order a new master clock every few months until you have enough to cover the entire campus.)

Yes, because multiple masters will magically always stay synchronized - if that were to work, why not just order all of the clocks as masters?

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Why not just redefine 'clock'?

Put a monitor in each room networked to a central computer and show the time off that system.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

As a German I can tell you that it is rather unlikely that Hanz would have been approved by the government at the time "Hanz" was born (I assume 20-30 years ago?). German baby naming laws restrict your rights on what to name your child. Look it up.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Damien:
anonymous:
I initially thought that the WTF was why they wanted clocks that synced to each other rather than to the atomic clock's radio signal. But as I recall, those used to be quite expensive, so I assume that networked clocks were a cheaper alternative.
That said, moving the master clock from location to location is actually not a bad hack to solve this problem. I wouldn't think it needed to visit each and every classroom, however - surely they could rotate it through a series of locations so that every clock on campus would be ensured to ping it once every couple weeks? (Or, for that matter, discreetly order a new master clock every few months until you have enough to cover the entire campus.)

Yes, because multiple masters will magically always stay synchronized - if that were to work, why not just order all of the clocks as masters?

According to TFA, the masters DID sync to the atomic clock - so yes, they'd stay synced.

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

golddog:
Why not just redefine 'clock'?
Put a monitor in each room networked to a central computer and show the time off that system.

This would require a computer in every classroom. It's quite likely that many classrooms didn't have one.

It'd make an interesting Raspberry Pi project, but they probably didn't have that option when Hanzo was dealing with this request (and IT surely wouldn't authorise the purchase of several dozen hobby kits anyway - now get back to work and stop tinkering with hobby kits!).

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Micky:
German baby naming laws restrict your rights on what to name your child.

The bigger obstacle can be the clerk in your local birth registration office. I think there was a case a few years ago where a girl was refused the name "Nikola" on the grounds that it did not properly express her gender (or some other stupid reason like that)...

2013-09-24 Reply Admin

Micky:
As a German I can tell you that it is rather unlikely that Hanz would have been approved by the government at the time "Hanz" was born (I assume 20-30 years ago?). German baby naming laws restrict your rights on what to name your child. Look it up.

So you know for a certainty that hew wasn't streetwise and goth and styled himself Hanz (and thence Hanzo)? Or is that illegal in Germany as well?

operagost · 2013-09-24 Reply Admin

For those who don't know much about Thomas Jefferson, the clock alluded to is the probably the Great Clock installed in Monticello since 1804. Its innovations included the use of a gong instead of bells (new to the West); two faces, once that is large enough to forgo a minute hand and use ticks to indicate minutes, and markings to indicate the day of the week by the position of the running weights.

Of course, even Jefferson had to wrestle with bugs, as the design of the clock necessitated putting holes in the floor to the cellar... the weights descended too far.

Syncing...Sunk

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