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Admin
Another long-time lurker with my own story from just a few weeks ago. I interviewed a guy for a Java Software Engineer position. His resume indicated that he had been writing Java for 8 years. He knew a lot of other things we needed too. I phone screened him and asked about the things he had done and there was a pretty good fit, so he came for an interview.
I started by indicating that I wanted to confirm his understanding of some Java basics. I asked him about how he might find a particular value in a string of known structure. He looked blank.
So I said, "Let's say you have a web page in a String and you wanted to get it's title -- how would you do this?". He looked blank for a second.
Then, he said "That wouldn't work. A string can only hold 255 characters and most web pages are bigger than that."
I said, "Uh, I was referring to a java.lang.String."
He said, "Yes, that's what I mean. It can only hold 255 characters."
I said, "Not the String I am talking about, you know the String class from the Java language, which can hold a very large number of characters. Are you thinking of something else, like a char field in a database or something?"
He said "No. A java.lang.String can hold a maximum of 255 characters."
Now I looked blank.
At which point, the interview had taken the requisite 5 minutes. I thanked him for his time and showed him out.
Admin
From "The Wanderer" tale:
>A sharp young programmer who came highly recommended to us came in for interview. His suit didn't fit well (at least he had one) and he wore sneakers. Normally this would put me off, but he was a young guy so I looked past it.
You seem to imply that casually-dressed programmers do not make good employees. Is this the case for you?
But above all: how is wearing an ill-fitting suit with sneakers better than good-looking casual dressing?
Admin
My inablity to answer stock questions with stock answers.
Admin
We were hiring for a programming position at our small web services company. In the ad we indicated we were a LAMP output, although we didn't use the term: we explicitly said we were looking for people with experience in Perl, plus working knowledge of MySQL and the Apache web server.
One of the candidates we selected to interview had a decent resume indicating web programming experience. However, when it came to the technical part:
Question: "What is a regular expression?" Answer: "I've never heard of regular expressions." (Anyone who does more than the most trivial programming in Perl has at least encountered the term.)
Question: "Have you had experience in setting up and running an Apache web server?" Candidate: "What's Apache?:
Question (falling back to more general knowledge): "Are you familiar with MySQL?" Candidate: "No. What is it?"
By this time it was obvious the candidate had bombed out. We thanked him for his interest and showed him the door.
But the next day we received an e-mail from him thanking us for the interview and declaring he felt he was a "perfect fit" for our company! We responded simply by indicating we had found someone more suited to the position and wished him luck in his search.
I'm still puzzled by this. Was he simply following the "how to look for a job" script, in which case you can at least argue that he can follow a procedure? (Not that such a person would suit us -- we need creative people; those who can think for themselves.) Or was he simply that clueless, not even knowing he had basically blown it, and yet still thought he was a "perfect fit"?
Admin
I've been to multiple weddings wearing jeans. I plan to go to my own wedding wearing jeans.
I'm the kind of guy that doesn't really care what people are wearing (as long as it doesnt look like they found it at the garbage tip and didn't even wash it).
Admin
I would have you removed from the church at my wedding. And you would not be invited to anything again ever unless you dress appropriately.
'I dont care what people are wearing' is just your excuse for being insensitive and disregarding other peoples feelings. Wearing jeans to a formal event shows a fundemental lack of respect to other people.
CAPTCHA: photogenic, ha.
Admin
Important point: "other people" is nt a uniform mass, and especially not one with thinking identical to yours. Feel free to evict anyone from your funeral/wedding, but let others decide by their own standards.
IOW: please try not to communicate your opinion as if you were talking in name of "other people".
Admin
Yeah... I have to say that is pretty awesome.
Admin
Totally agree with this. One of my friends had a nude wedding (which I did not attend). Another had a wedding where everyone was in casual cloths. Heck, the "best man" wore torn jean shorts and a stained wife-beater. The bride and groom wore casual cloths as well, so they were OK with this. You may think this is disrespectful, but they don't, and it's their opinion that matters.
The Number One Rule in Presenting: Know your audience. That's what the middle road people here are saying: KNOW YOUR AUDIENCE. If you're going for an Enterprisey (captcha) job, wear a suit. If you're going for a Game Dev job, dress casual. Know. Research. Learn. Put effort into knowing about the future job. There is no one-size-fits-all.
Let's be honest for a second: We software developers need to learn that simple fact. There is no way to have something which does everything. Don't be niave and ignorant. Be flexible. Use the right tool for the right job, use the right dress and speech for the right occasion and audiance.
Admin
Oops. I should have been more clear. The wedding thing and the bit about not caring what people thought were 2 seperate thoughts (intereupted by someone talking to me).
I meant that I don't look down on someone for not wearing formal clothes to some event, no matter what it is. Even if my future wife vetos my informal wedding dress code, I wouldn't expect anyone to feel out of place for turning up in old jeans and a t-shirt.
Edit: Also, the weddings I've been to wearing less formal clothes have all been modern fashionable outdoor events.
Admin
I get along well with most people and recently worked for a company where the President was like the one you described but I took the job and to this day I am glad I did. It was a rough ride but the amount of experience I gained through working with him is amazing and on the upside my new bosses are like lambs compared to him so I have a relaxed work environment everyday even though most of my co-workers stress out because some or other manager are ranting again.
Admin
hrmph well once I was to interview somebody for a programming job. When I went down to the reception I was a bit surprised that the guy was much older than what I expected. I was think oh well that's cool, he must be very experienced (I hadn't had time to look at the CV).
Anyway, we went upstair to the interview room and we chit chatted a bit. After a couple of minutes we both realized that something was amiss - it turned out that the guy was there applying for another job as manager lol. 8-)
moral of the story: its good to prepare for interviews.
Admin
I see a big cultural difference here between US (assuming this WTF is from there) and Finland. If someone here would arrive to a programming job interview with a suit, it would probably be regarded as WTF. Using a suit here would make interviewer suspicious if the interviewed guy can really be a good programmer. Almost everyone here a the office dresses casually unless they have a client meeting of non-technical nature. In summertime for example many programmers wear just shorts, sandals and t-shirt.
I remember one day when I wore a collared shirt in the office. My colleague said to me: "WTF, have you been promoted to manager?"
I don't say our style would be better - its just very different. And there are a lot of other differences as well.
Admin
That's an interesting observation. Frankly, we usually don't hire programmers who wear suits. To me, it kind of feels as if they had to cover up something.
So, suit? Bad first impression, possibly won't fit into the team. Tasteful casual wear and sneakers? Perfect for programmers.
Admin
Re: subscription fee and .net
IIRC, .net wasn't always free. You had to be MSDN subscriber to get the first versions (before 1.0.3705), until it got released for free. That's just my recollection of it. But it might well be the guy who didn't want to pay the subscription fee wasn't that silly.
Admin
Exactly - you don't hire IT people for show, but for work.
Real techies don't spend much time in suits, they are too busy getting things done. Now if you were hiring a marketroid, that would be a different affair entirely, but for programmers: check their skills, not their dress.
Admin
Interpersonal skills count. It's as simple as that. Even programmers need to have important meetings (sometimes with clients), get on with other people, communicate well, and so forth.
By dressing inappropriately for an interview (be it vastly overdressed *or* underdressed) you are demonstrating that you either lack or don't care about at least one major interpersonal skill - your impression/appearance. And if you keep doing that, then sooner or later you will get passed over for a job or promotion for a programmer who is just as competent as you but has other skills too.
Unless you are already at exactly where you want to ultimately be, career wise, it makes sense to dress to the situation.
Admin
How about:
"My complete and utter inability to rank any of my innumerable weaknesses as my 'biggest' weaknesss."
Admin
I think there's also an East Coast / West Coast difference. I'd never owned a suit in Seattle. Here in D.C. I wouldn't think of showing up on the job in less than Dockers and a button-up shirt. And, in an interview a suit is required.
Admin
Of course it's a BS answer - I said so in the post, but you have to get past the question. However, I rarely get asked that question by technical folks. Usually, it comes from HR-types who aren't sufficiently astute to get the relationship you suggest.
Admin
I think a good rule of thumb on what to wear during the interview, is choose clothes with the same degree of formality as the CEO of the company would. How do you figure that out? When your researching the company, try to find a candid picture of the CEO or just a regular picture on their website. If the CEO has a suit on, then people in the company are used to seeing at least one person with a suit on.
If you can't find a picture at all, and you're in the bay area, then go down to Macy's, buy a nice shirt (short sleeves in summer), buy a pair of nice slacks, make sure they match. Buy a belt then some nice dress shoes.
Finally (Based on some recent interviews I've given), go to walgreens or riteaid, get some BO-stick, a tooth brush, some tooth paste, and some mouth wash. Don't OD on caffeine, but make sure you're awake. Make eye contact with your interviewer.
On the coding questions, you don't gain anything by hiding your thoughts, unless you're really stupid and the job isn't for you. If you're capable, then only speaking after you've thought it through, then getting it wrong is 100x worse then talking while you think. As well, I've never heard in a recap, "Well, the person really didn't have a clue at first but they thought it through out loud and got it, don't hire him/her", and I've heard , "The guy/woman, was awkward, wouldn't talk out problems, kept everything hidden, I hate working with those people".
Admin
Other domains... like spelling. "Tailored", not "Taylored".
Admin
I work at a company that is about as casual as you can get with regard to dress, and I wear a suit so rarely (interviews, funerals and weddings), I've had the same one for 10 years.
I would never work for a company that required a suit to work and I would never work with people who ridiculed others for wearing suits to interviews.
Geeks so cool thay can only wear beach attire, and are so myopic as to not understand why someone would wear a suit to an interview are usually difficult to work with.
I wear suits to interviews becuase it shows that I can dress up should it become necessary (i.e. meeting with a stuffy customer with lots of money), and that can adapt to different social situations as required.
Admin
How do you know that book was the only thing he disturbed while he was in there? He was unattended, remember.
I work for a defense contractor, which means that I am probably more aware than a commercial-sector person of the importance of counter-intelligence. Don't underestimate other people, or assume the best when they're doing something that is not only rude, but quite possibly illegal. At my company, he would not have been left unattended, and if someone had left him alone, they'd quite probably face disciplinary action for doing so. That's a MAJOR breach of security to have somebody wandering unimpeded into manager officers, free to look at any hard copy lying around. That hard copy could include bids, price charts, statements of work, proprietary data, all kinds of information that could be very lucrative to a competitor.
Yes, I'm sure he was looking for the answer to the question. However, it's unwise to make any assumptions about what the question was. In any case, wandering uninvited into a stranger's office and reading books off the shelf without permission demonstrates a severe misunderstanding of what is appropriate behavior. He'll need a lot of training, and I'd still consider him a liability. I wouldn't want to risk him wandering off and reading stuff in the offices of a competitor; if caught, my company would face serious penalties. Corporate espionage, even if unsuccessful, is a crime. In the defense industry, it's very serious business. Just look at what Boeing went through a few years ago with the Delta IV program. They hired a former Lockheed employee. He brought with him boxes and boxes of confidential Lockheed data, which allowed them to unfairly underbid their Delta IV rocket in the USAF Evolved Expendable Launch Vehicle program. The price? They had to fire all the staff directly involved in the scandal, reorganize, cease bidding on any government space work, and lose nearly all of their Delta contracts for a few years. It cost them billions.
This was not as serious as what happened to Boeing. But it could have been. For heavens sake, don't wander where you are not invited. Job interviews are a recognized method of collecting intelligence (both military and commercial) because they give an outside person access to a facility and to key stakeholders within the company. They could try a strategy this blunt, in hopes your security practises are poor. Or they could simply ply their interviewers for information. (Word to the wise: even if you keep a close eye on your interviewees, be careful what you tell them. Remember, even if they are legitimately looking for a job, it might be your competitor who ends up hiring them -- and getting access to any information you unwittingly gave them.)
Admin
Wow. Looked past it. Good. Anybody miss that point?
But isn't it amazing the can of worms this opens up? I remember getting death threats on another board because I am of the opinion that dressing appropriately for an interview is, well, appropriate.
Yes, this isn't 1951 anymore and employers are more comfortable in answering questions about interview attire than they were in the past, this is something the interviewee can take advantage of.
But look at it this way: if the Politically Correct reaction to the way you dress in an interview is to simply ignore it, then it follows that the Politically Correct reaction to not bathing for an interview is to simply ignore it. Eating during an interview? ignore it. Taking a call on the cell? ignore it. Picking your teeth? Picking your nose? Trying to look up the interviewer's skirt? They should all be ignored as well. This is after all, an intellectual industry, nothing you could ever do should offend anyone as long as your code is clean and submitted on time. We should be above the superficialities.
Why respect anyone else's expectations (especially non-technical management), after all: "They Don't Get It."
If you aren't willing to dress appropriately for an interview (and the company may require that suit and tie) then why should society expect you to exercise the discipline to come to a full and complete stop at a stop sign at a deserted country crossroads at 3 a.m.?
Yes, there are efficiencies and contingencies and all kinds of ways to "justify" your actions, but you're still dis-respecting society. Thankfully it's not going to be our generation that pays.
Admin
Ahh, this has been my argument for years: That inept or clueless HR people are partly to blame for corporate ineptitude on a broader scale.
Next time you encounter an idiot, don't ask why that person's an idiot. Some just are. Ask who hired them. Ask why they haven't received proper training. Ask why their poor performance hasn't been acted upon. Unless this particular instance of idiocy is an isolated case, you'll end up pointing the finger at management or HR.
Management's job is to get the right people, get them the resources they need, then get out of the way. A failure on any one of those three points affects everyone. The point of a the hiring process is to attract the right people just as much as it is to filter out the wrong people. If they're not advertising right, or not paying right, or giving qualified candidates the wrong "vibe" about the place, they'll end up hiring someone unqualified by default. It all starts with HR.
Admin
Appearance Matters! In this field, suit are usually not required; but do dress nicely. If you don't have a suit, I'm sure you can afford at least khaki and long sleeves shirt.
We are living in "a Material World!" (Madona) Plastic surgery wouldn't be so popular if Appearance doesn't matter. Our culture (Parent, Peers, TV, etc..) has burned it into our brain. Think about it, we make all kind of judgements about a person before we even hear what they have to say.
I've interviewed and been through many interviews. As a Tech, you have to go through many interviews. With a good position, HR can receives and goes through hundred of resumes a day. The first inteview might be a phone interview. Then you interview with HR where Appearance most likely Matter. HR will most likely ask you those ethics and possibly leadership questions if you are applying management positions. Face it, after dotcom boom (ENRON, WORLDCOM, etc..) Ethic Matters!
I'm an interviewer; and I don't know anything about you beside what you wrote in your resume,and that still need to be verified. My first impression of you matter, especially if I'm HR. It's like taking a test. You get points for dressing up nice.
If you respect yourself, so what if you're the only one dress in a suit? They can't say that you are snobish if you express yourself correctly when you meet people. If the interview went well, HR may bring you around to meet your future co-worker/boss. You want to make a good First Impression!
I'm a very competitive guy. Interview process for me is all about scoring as many offers as possible. Then I can have option/leverages, and can negotiates for better offer.
As for those who are still to stubborn to even try to dress nicely, fine.. Continue your own way and don't complain about the WTF code you see with "how do these people score job when I can do better and I'm jobless."
Admin
It never fails to amaze me what pride geeks take in their inability to read people and normal social situations and draw the correct conclusion as to what is appropriate behavior. Also, the little boy mentality of wanting to spend the rest of their lives in short pants and a t-shirt (typically these articles of clothing do not exactly set their bloated forms to best advantage).
Look, part of your job involves working with other people, no matter how seldom you bathe. Show some respect for them by being presentable and professional in your appearance. Did none of you squidlings have fathers or grade school teachers to instruct you in normal human behavior?
Admin
Personally, I have seen too many overgrown children in places I have worked. It's depressing. And no, they weren't the super-coders they thought they were, either--one I work with now constantly wastes his time trying to solve problems in the most code-intensive and obscure way possible, simply because this is more challenging to him--he totally lacks technical common sense.
Also, it's really difficult to put much stock in some of the self-appraisals around here.
Admin
Can't argue with that brilliant deductive logic.
Admin
There is in fact good reason to gather information by looking in the medicine cabinet, and a fine tradition thereof in American letters, from Thompson to Phillips to Didion. It's getting caught that's the problem. (Cf Tom Lehrer: "He was majoring in animal husbandry until they ... caught him at it one day.")
captcha: Gonzo
Admin
There's no logic involved. Just a feeling, as I said - people who wear suits probably don't fit into our R&D team. In other words, it's inductive reasoning (if that), certainly not deductive logic. Besides, if you wanted to make fun of me (and I'm not sure if you did), you should have written "brillant," not "brilliant."
Anyway, what was your point again?
Admin
Why would that be depressing? Curiosity is a virtue for programmers.
Admin
If it's C++ and operator== is overloaded, you would need to do: if ( *this == null ) // or NULL
for it to make sense.
Admin
So you're making a judgment of their personality and how well they will fit in based on their view of proper interview style? Their behavior during the interview should tell you more about how they will fit in than what they believe is proper attire for an interview.
Wouldn't it be possible for someone who would be a perfect fit in your working environment to just have a more formal idea of what interviews should be like? What does that say about their personality other than how they view interviews?
sincerely,
Richard Nixon
Admin
I'm in the "honesty is the best policy" camp, as much as appropriate, anyway.
Oh, and when I did my interviews, I was typically "business casual", dress pants and shoes, dress shirt, tie, but no suit jacket -- instead, I wore my university engineering leather jacket.
A phone interview with a telecom: "If you were to go back and do (previous job from which I was laid off) over, what would you do differently?" Admittedly that one caught me totally off guard, and after taking a rather long moment to think, I started to babble on about learning how to deal with layoffs, and before I knew it I was telling him about how hard the layoff had been, especially since I lost personal files, emails, etc. that had all been on my work computer at my last job. I realized, a bit too late, that I made it sound like I was doing way too much personal stuff on company time. I thought I'd just blown it.
Then the interviewer paused and said "Wow, that's an answer I'd never been given before. Most people say something like 'I'd learn to do better Java' or something." And he gave me an offer. Later when I was in the position of turning his offer down, he pleaded with me, saying that he could see that I had a lot of potential and he saw me as a manager one day, not just a life-long coder.
Then there was my interview with Accenture recruiters, where I arrived with zero time to spare and entered the interviewer's office huffing and puffing from running up five flights of stairs. He actually stopped the interview and said "Go ahead and take a minute to catch your breath." I thought I'd blown that, too, but again I got an offer (and turned it down, because...)
Finally there was my interview with a manager who had a position I didn't even apply for. I had applied for about 5 positions on their career website, none of them even acknowledged my application, but then I got a call from HR out of the blue. When I read over the req, I shuddered... he was looking to hire a guy with 5 years experience in the field (I had 1.5 years experience, NOT in that field), a guy who knew ClearCase (I had used Continuus), DOORS (nope), BX Pro (nope), strong C++ (yes, but I had just spent the last 3 years back at school doing Java), Rational Rose (yes, but only at school). So the interviewers are telling me about their product and their design cycle, which uses a fair bit of UML modeling and code generation from Rational Rose. He asks me "What do you think about round trip code generation?"
"I don't think it works very well", I said. "I've done it, in academic situations, projects at school, coursework. It's a great idea in concept. But in the real world, it fails." I proceeded to tell them why I thought so.
Despite being underqualified for the job (they were hiring for a level higher than what I thought I qualified for), despite not having the hard skills they needed, they hired me. Because, I found out later, I was a person who had realistic expectations and knew how to do stuff in "the real world". As it turns out, upper management sent down the mandate to use Rose and round-trip code generation, and all the developers felt like I do -- they hate it, because it doesn't work very well. I was one of few people who were willing to say so in the interview.
I heard some horror stories from some of the other people who had been interviewed for the position and rejected, but that's a story for another time.
Oh, and it didn't hurt that their pickest, most finicky QA test lead, turns out to have been the person who taught me most of what I know about C++ programming, in terms of making bomb-proof, well documented code, in a high-school co-op term 10 years earlier. I name-dropped hoping that maybe that guy still worked there, and just maybe (in this company of 1500 employees) one of the interviewers had heard of him. Instead they looked at each other, smiled, and said "Reaaaally? Well, we'll just have to talk to him and see what he thinks of you."
Apparently they thought well of me, because here I am...
Captcha: shizzle (yeah baby!)
Admin
And many more comments along those lines..
I'm assuming you guys have never seen Ben Stein wear nothing BUT a suit and Etnies (a skate shoe) on his show? (Win Ben Stein's Money)
The biggest baddest new Nikes of course do not go with a suit, but nothing beats a colour matched pair of Vans Old School Lows with a nice suit.
Seriously. I pull it off all the time; as long as it's a slim, short sneaker, and the colours match, it's fine. I think it's actually more pimp than a boring old pair of polished black dress shoes any day of the week.
Wearing a pair of Jordans that are red and black and go half way to your knees with a navy blue suit is obviously wrong. I think wearing those hideous things is wrong in the first place, but I digress.
You'd really be surprised how suave a well styled and colour matched pair of sneakers can go with a suit. Just ask the ladies.
Did you guys also ever think that a fresh graduate who's currently unemployed may in fact be too poor to afford proper dress shoes, or even a proper fitting suit? I think that it's a bit classist to judge someone's technical ability by their ability to drop $300+ dollars on something that they'll be wearing once or twice.
My very low valued two cents.
Admin
Of course I do. Are you proposing that this is somehow wrong? The interviewee probably spent quite some time thinking about how to dress for the interview. If he applies for a programming job in a suit, he hasn't asked what to wear, so he made conscious decision to wear a suit. That tells me something about what he expects from this job and this team. My first reaction would probably be "wtf?"
We're looking for engineers here. Not management or fashion models.
Having said that, we never had somebody apply for a job in R&D wearing a suit. And we're writing banking applications.
Of course. But choosing what to wear is part of your behaviour. Not during the interview, obviously, but before the interview.
It shows your expectations, your style, your personality.
Of course it's possible. Just unlikely.
Admin
No kidding.
Admin
So is maturity. Would be nice to see more of it, rather than people who watch cartoons and play tag in the cube aisles.
Admin
You're just as bad as the guys who won't hire anyone <i>not</i> wearing a suit.
A lot of good programmers just aren't too fashionably aware. If they dont' know what to wear to an interview, then the suit defaults. It says *absolutely nothing* about them. You simply can't infer a single damn fact from what they are wearing. There are the extreme cases - but wearing a suit to an interview is just a cultural norm for some people - it's not extreme.
Admin
Anonymous, meet slippery slope.
Admin
Uhm. Frankly, I don't really know what to reply to this, other than that I feel sorry for you.
Admin
I never said I wouldn't hire somebody with suit. Just that it's a significant negative first impression. Having said that, yes: I'm just as bad as somebody who won't hire somebody who applies without a suit for a management position.
That's quite simply not true. As I've said, we write banking apps, yet nobody here has ever applied for an R&D job wearing a suit.
Again, not true. What you wear says a lot about you. You choose your clothes. They don't suddenly fall down from the sky and force themselves upon you.
Suddenly I'm starting to think that somehow, you're taking this way too personal. So, you're wearing suits for job interviews, huh?
Experience would indicate otherwise.
Admin
Uhm, maybe as it was an interview and the person was nervous they actually meant "Apple, Solaris". Solaris historically kept the same major version number - 2
Admin
Another brilliant rebuttal.
Listen up, junior. People like dealing with adults and not retarded Asperger's sufferers. Even if the latter can write reasonable C. Get this, being a developer necessarily involves interacting with non-developers--testers, managers, support staff, and so on. Showing them you can pick up on basic social cues is the first sign that attempts to interact with you are not entirely futile.
With few exceptions the "non-comformists" who love to show off their failure to groom, dress properly, and behave like an adult are the ones with the worst problems dealing with anyone different from themselves. I see it all the time. The dev who just blends in, dresses normally, speaks normally, is 99 times out of 100 also the dev who listens, asks questions, shows consideration in his assumptions, etc. The dev who dresses like a jackass who has only ever worn short pants is the one who automatically assumes the users are retarded, that anyone who can't code is a worthless fuckwit, that their way is the only way, etc. I'm sick to death dealing with such people. And by the way they are the reason why IT is usually held in slightly lower esteem than HR by the average non-IP employee.
Admin
Jeez, I don't even HAVE shoes that can be polished, a suit or a tie.
I've done all of that. Always got hired too, except for the funerals & weddings.
Admin
Yeah, I can see how that works. You're really mature and above everybody else, and you show that by not playing games and talking down on others. I'm glad I don't have to work with somebody like you. I'm glad we have a fun working environment, and I would not hire somebody like you, because you'd bring down the whole team.
People here like coming to work. They like their job and their coworkers. They like watching cartoons and arguing about video games. They're also awesome coders who write heavy-duty banking apps, and they are often supporting customers and do presentations about our application.
Awesome. So what has that got to do with watching cartoons or having fun while working?
You're cracking me up. I really can't provide a coherent answer to your rambling: you're destroying your own point. People who have fun while working are "worthless fuckwits," and but you're the mature one here, huh? And making fun of disabilities is good, while watching cartoons is bad. Yeah, right. Grow up. You're the immature one here.
Admin
Yeah, that incredible shrinking suit thing is a bummer. :-) But the noose feeling is part and parcel of it. Buy a shirt with the right size collar, and it's no problem.
Admin
So true. When I interviewed for my first job after graduating college, I had a full beard and some hair on my head (not much). When I showed up (after being hired), I had a shaved head and a goatee. My new boss (who I interviewed with) was not really sure I was who he hired. I still think he's convinced I'm not the same guy.